HOrc Builds - Need Input

[MrRotten]

I'm returning to DDO after quite of bit of time away and I am astonished as to how much has changed.

One of the big things I am excited for is the H-Orc! :)

I just can't seem to settle on a build that I like...

I am unfamilure what Update 9 is bringing and how it might impact these builds, so I would appreciate any and all advice/tips/suggestions/recommendations on these builds.

From what I gather, the difference in DPS from Pure Barb to Pure Fighter isn't much, so I guess it just comes down to what build will have the best survivability in the HIGH end content.

Build 1: H-Orc Fighter (Two Weapon Fighter)
One of the reason I went with Oversized Weapons is because of flavor... all in all I am sure it's better to go a different rout.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Half-Orc Male
(20 Fighter)
Hit Points: 472
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 9
Will: 6

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 19 26
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 11 13
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 6 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending
Base Skills Base Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 2 12
Bluff -2 -1
Concentration 2 3
Diplomacy -2 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -1
Heal -1 0
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 2 22
Jump 8 33
Listen -1 0
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 1 1
Spot -1 0
Swim 4 10
Tumble n/a 3.5
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) II
Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization II
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV





Build 2: H-Orc Barb (Two Handed Barb)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Half-Orc Male
(20 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 340
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 6
Will: 8

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 20 27
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 6 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending
Base Skills Base Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 0 11.5
Bluff -2 -1
Concentration 3 4
Diplomacy -2 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -1
Heal 1 7.5
Hide -1 0
Intimidate 2 22
Jump 9 31
Listen 1 2
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot 1 2
Swim 5 8
Tumble 0 1
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 7 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 8 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 11 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)





Build 3: H-Orc Fighter (Two Handed Fighter)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Half-Orc Male
(20 Fighter)
Hit Points: 410
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 6
Will: 6

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 20 27
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 6 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending
Base Skills Base Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 1 11.5
Bluff -2 -1
Concentration 3 4
Diplomacy -2 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -1
Heal -1 0
Hide -1 0
Intimidate 2 22
Jump 9 31
Listen -1 0
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 1 2
Spot -1 0
Swim 5 19
Tumble n/a 1
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons




Keep in mind about each build, I only build the ability stats with a +2 Tome, I know there is better, I know they can be found, but just keeping it straight forward for now..

Now all 3 of these builds are rough sketches, but pretty close to what I am looking at as far as how I would build them.

As far as DPS, all 3 seem to probably be close.

So which is the more all around fighter and best to choose?

Which build would yield the most Solo-friendly way to go, and less equipment needy yet still be solid?

What needs tweeked??

Much help appreciated...

[Alex301]

THF and TWF are about the same if you have an epic sword of the shadows, if not TWF will come out on top most of the time. i don't think i saw khopesh proficiency on your TWF fighter. This is the weapon of choice for two weapon fighting, especially wit the changes coming in U9, and with so many feats available for fighters there's really no reason not to take it. Power critical is also a useless feat for most people as you should be confirming critical hits just fine without it. I'd drop it and pick up stunning blow instead.

I haven't tried out cleave yet but i hear its received some improvements, not sure if its worth grabbing yet though. Right now, i.e. in U8, cleave and great cleave are also useless feats for the most part. Barbarians only take cleave because it's a pre-req for frenzied berserker. I don't think either are going to be worth taking on your fighter in U9, but i'd have to read up more on its changes to say for sure.

TWF barbarians are also very good, but you'll want to go 18 barbarian/ 2 fighter to grabs the feats to really make it work. Barbarians are also less gear dependent and they'll perform better in poor gear than a fighter will. If you do have very good gear the fighter will start to overtake the barbarian however. They're both about even for the most part though and i wouldn't worry about this.

[Memek]

-Power Critical is useless
-The TWFing build will want Khopesh
-Fighters need Quick Draw
-Stunning Blow is nice to have
-Cleave and Great Cleave are getting reworked for next update, but at the moment those are not good feats;

All 3 characters will be rather spongy; Lousy saves, no AC, no Evasion but at least lots of HP. The Barb also has some DR, that helps too.

"Survivability" isnt what comes to mind when i see those builds but i'd say the Barb wins out because of his DR, and maybe Uncanny Dodge and stuff. Fighter is better DPS though.

[MrRotten]

Thanks for the responses...

I was looking through the updates, and just for everyone's knowledge, I think the last time I played DDO was around Update 4 or 5(ish), I think... Everything beyond those just looks all brand new and I don't remember seeing any of that stuff. The last Raid I remember running was with the Devils and the Demons and all the crafting (of which I still have no idea how to do.)


Yea, Power Critical looked good initially, thanks for the info.

Why do Fighters need Quick Draw now? By my understanding, it only affects ranged weapons? IE: Throwing Weapons or Bows?

Stunning Blow used to suck, did it get improved? When?

Cleave and Great Cleave used to be decent, but yea, guess that's changed now. Thanks for the info! :)


These are the priorities of which I would like to build from:
1.) DPS DPS DPS
2.) Survivability (Because I know from the one raid with the Devils and Demons that things were starting to get heavily ramped up in difficulty.)
3.) Solo-ability (As I have been away from game for a long time, need to re-learn and get a new feel for it, so alot of early/mid solo missions I see coming.)
4.) Not gear dependent, but heavily improved with great gear. (As I am starting back out pretty poor, need to restock the funds.)

What would be recommended from here?

All in all my play style is a purist, but multiclassing I have done and can be fun/interesting.

EDIT:
This build looks fun: Blizt HALF ORC: 12 FIGHTER/6 BARBARIAN/ 2 ROGUE
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3151377#post3151377

Although I am leary with it because like I said, I am a purist...

[Alex301]

If you want high dps then i'd recommend TWF. Even if you manage to grind out one of the most powerful weapons in the game, the epic sword of shadows, they are only on par with each other. For the majority of people TWF is the way to go. Quick draw also halves the activation time for abilities like haste boost or power surge. So rather than standing still and waiting for your haste boost to kick in for 1.2 sec, its only 0.6 secs instead. It doesn't sound like a lot and it isn't really, but the difference is noticeable and, with so many feats a fighter can have, you might as well grab it.

I haven't been playing all that long so i'm not sure how it use to work in the past, but atm it will stun an opponent and put them in the helpless state. Currently hitting an enemy in the helpess state will always be a critical hit. Obviously this improves your damage tremendously while stopping the enemy from hitting back. In U9 the helpless state is being changed so instead you do 50% more damage. While not quite as good, it's still worth using.

As for gear, barbarian might be easier to level and when you first hit lvl 20, but you'll soon pick up some nice gear so they are about even. Continue to get even better gear and the fighter will generally pull ahead. I'd choose the class whose play style you prefer over the relatively small gain in damage output though.

With pure fighters/barbarians survivability and soloabilty is basically get lots of health, high dps and some dr and healing amp if you can. From there just try to play smart. Healing you're self will be difficult once standard healing pots lose their potency. There are silver flame pots you can unlock with enough favour, but this can be quite a grind and they come with side effects. Multiclasses can offer some self healing capabilities though. Having a splash with rogue or bard will unlock UMD as a class skill for example, and is probably the most powerful skill in the game. This will allow you to use healing scrolls/wands along with many other items a pure melee could never use. Scrolls are no replacement for cleric/fvs party member though but can get you through some easier quests. Failing that you could just grab a hireling and have them heal you :)

AC really isn't worth bothering with in the mid/high levels so you will be getting hit all the time. This why having a lot of HP, dr and healing amp is important. UMD will also allow you to cast displacement, stoneskin etc through scrolls to help mitigate damage. There are some clickies any class can use as well. Tactics such as using trip, stunning blow is also great at reducing damage and killing enemies quickly. Barbarians generally offer more health while raging along with inherent damage reduction. However, to maintain top dps they'll need to be frenzied which will do 1-3 damage to your self. While this isn't a lot by itself, it does add up especially if you're TWF.

Multicalssing can also give some great abilties such as evasion, given with 2 levels of monk or rogue or 9 levels of ranger. This can reduce a lot of incoming damage provided you have the reflex saves to make it work. You could take 0 damage from spells or traps that would otherwise kill you. Only problem with multiclassing is you can ruin your toon quite easily if you don't know what you're doing. Most worthwhile builds explain themselves explicitly so as long as you follow them you should be fine.

As for the blitz build, it offers a lot of great abilities, such as UMD, evasion, crazy high strength but the rages from the barbarian class can be very short if you don't have the barbarian past life feat. i leveled up a blitz but i found the rages to be too short to be dependable and was doing less damage while they weren't active. Admittedly i didn't get gear like madstone boots which would have increased their duration but i still think they would have been too short for my liking.

Wow, very long post (sorry about that) The game is very complicated and there is still more i'd like to say but i'm going to stop myself here lol.

[MrRotten]

If you want high dps then i'd recommend TWF. Even if you manage to grind out one of the most powerful weapons in the game, the epic sword of shadows, they are only on par with each other. For the majority of people TWF is the way to go.

Ok, TWF it is then... It's more fun then THF anyways, most of my fighter toons I roll up as THFers, in fact my first Barb is pure and a THF capped. So TWF will be a nice switch I think.

For a ORC, stats I think I will roll with: 32pt Build
20 STR
15 DEX (+2 @7 for the TWF Line)
15 CON (The highest I can get after pumping STR and DEX)
6 INT (I would like higher INT earlier for Skills, but I think I can get away with it.)
8 WIS
6 CHA

Think that'll work ok?

And use the only skill points for maxing Intimidate I guess... although I have never played an Intimi Tank, it seems thats all everyone wants in their Melee groupies anymore. UGH


Quick draw also halves the activation time for abilities like haste boost or power surge. So rather than standing still and waiting for your haste boost to kick in for 1.2 sec, its only 0.6 secs instead. It doesn't sound like a lot and it isn't really, but the difference is noticeable and, with so many feats a fighter can have, you might as well grab it.

Honestly it doesn't sound like it provides the build all that much in the long run... Is it seriously that good? Or did you leave out some good strategy for Quick Draw? I think I would rather a Toughness, or something else maybe???


I haven't been playing all that long so i'm not sure how it use to work in the past, but atm it will stun an opponent and put them in the helpless state. Currently hitting an enemy in the helpess state will always be a critical hit. Obviously this improves your damage tremendously while stopping the enemy from hitting back. In U9 the helpless state is being changed so instead you do 50% more damage. While not quite as good, it's still worth using.

So Stunning Blow with the Enhancements to make it better, and it's pretty good now, sweet... I'll pick it up then.

I'm guessing it doesn't work on bosses though? It never really used to, so I was wondering.

It wouldn't be better long term and "overall" to just go with a Toughness or something else? Just curious...


As for gear, barbarian might be easier to level and when you first hit lvl 20, but you'll soon pick up some nice gear so they are about even. Continue to get even better gear and the fighter will generally pull ahead. I'd choose the class whose play style you prefer over the relatively small gain in damage output though.

Well it seems to me that if I go TWF, it almost has to be a Fighter since you can snag the entire TWF feats, along with the Focus/Specialization Feats to make it even better, and an added bonus you can snag the Stunning Blow/Quick Draw and some Toughness. So it just seems to me that maybe in the short term Fighter isn't as strong, but long term Fighter becomes better?


With pure fighters/barbarians survivability and soloabilty is basically get lots of health, high dps and some dr and healing amp if you can. From there just try to play smart. Healing you're self will be difficult once standard healing pots lose their potency. There are silver flame pots you can unlock with enough favour, but this can be quite a grind and they come with side effects. Multiclasses can offer some self healing capabilities though. Having a splash with rogue or bard will unlock UMD as a class skill for example, and is probably the most powerful skill in the game. This will allow you to use healing scrolls/wands along with many other items a pure melee could never use. Scrolls are no replacement for cleric/fvs party member though but can get you through some easier quests. Failing that you could just grab a hireling and have them heal you :)

Yea I have a capped out Barb now, and all my melee toons have just been pure classed. So I ain't used to multiclassing, and honestly I think in the end you eventually get rewarded for staying pure... The multiclassed toons though do interest me though. Generally my favorite Melee to play is a Barb, and when I play Barb I always carry an entire stock of potions so I can be a bit self reliant as not to soak up all the attention from the Clerics. With that and clickies, I do pretty well for myself.

So I think being Pure is doable for me with how I play and prepare, but I am curious if the multiclassed toons snagging big benefits from other classes make them more survivability friendly. IE: 2 levels of rogue/monk to get Evasion, as it seems Evasion is huge?


AC really isn't worth bothering with in the mid/high levels so you will be getting hit all the time. This why having a lot of HP, dr and healing amp is important. UMD will also allow you to cast displacement, stoneskin etc through scrolls to help mitigate damage. There are some clickies any class can use as well. Tactics such as using trip, stunning blow is also great at reducing damage and killing enemies quickly. Barbarians generally offer more health while raging along with inherent damage reduction. However, to maintain top dps they'll need to be frenzied which will do 1-3 damage to your self. While this isn't a lot by itself, it does add up especially if you're TWF.

Yea nothings changed her about AC, of all the updates and fixes and improvements, AC still seems to be useless.

And yea, with my current capped Barb, I had all the clickies (Stoneskin etc...) and I carried a huge inventory of pots so that I could be self reliant and take less of the focus from the Clerics. So yea, it seemed to work out ok.


Multicalssing can also give some great abilties such as evasion, given with 2 levels of monk or rogue or 9 levels of ranger. This can reduce a lot of incoming damage provided you have the reflex saves to make it work. You could take 0 damage from spells or traps that would otherwise kill you. Only problem with multiclassing is you can ruin your toon quite easily if you don't know what you're doing. Most worthwhile builds explain themselves explicitly so as long as you follow them you should be fine.

Yea I have dabbled in multiclassing before, but never got into those toons much... probably because I ended up making a toon mistake or something and they didn't turn out as well as I had hoped.

So as for the Blitz build of Fighter/Barb/Rogue, I don't know that I like the Barb splash in it. So I am thinking of just Fighter/Rogue OR Barb/Rogue?


As for the blitz build, it offers a lot of great abilities, such as UMD, evasion, crazy high strength but the rages from the barbarian class can be very short if you don't have the barbarian past life feat. i leveled up a blitz but i found the rages to be too short to be dependable and was doing less damage while they weren't active. Admittedly i didn't get gear like madstone boots which would have increased their duration but i still think they would have been too short for my liking.

The Rages being short and kinda meh, this is why I am thinking of cutting the Barb splash and going just Fighter/Rogue or Barb/Rogue instead?

You think that would be solid?


And thanks for the input!

[Alex301]

i do prefer fighter to barbarian. Mostly because of all the freedom the feats give while there is really only one way to build a pure barbarian. i wouldn't view intimidate as essential for any melee. While its nice to pull off here and there, its not necessary for any quest and i don't bother to build for it. There are a few quests where intimi-tanks are very useful but a competent group of players will handle themselves just fine. More popular and useful are hate-tanks, who still do top DPS but can also hold the aggro like a tank.

Not having quick draw isn't a big deal, but it will increase your dps. Because everyone wants to squeeze as much damage out of their toons as possible they will pick this up. Of course having more health is always a plus, but some people wont sacrifice dps for a bit of extra health.

No stunning blow wont work on bosses, but against high damage enemies, e.g. epic trash, it can be very useful. If soloing or short manning a quest its crowd control ability is also very useful. Abilities like stunning blow are actually what the blitz build is centered around. The fighter/barb combination is to get very high str to increase the DCs of these abilities.

While evasion is very useful its not essential. Pure builds will do just fine but it does make you more survivable and versatile. 2 monk/rogue splashes also have alot to offer other than evasion. Rogue will make UMD a class skill and give you extra sneak attack damage while 2 monk gives you 2 extra feats and the ability to add your wisdom modifier to your AC, usually for the feats though.

The only problem with splashes is you lose your main class' capstone. These are usually very powerful and tough to make up for. 18ftr/2rog aren't usually seen because the loss of the fighter capstone isn't made up for the rogue's SA damage. Achieving high reflex saves can also be difficult and without good saves evasion wont work. Same can thing with THF barbarians. the barbarian capstone doesn't do much for TWF, however, and so multi-classing TWF barbs is much easier. However, TWF also requires more feats so most people grab fighter levels to make up for this.

Here is a DPS chart that compares damage from several different builds (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=299620) This should be taken as a rough guideline however and factors such as gear can make a significant impact on build's relative DPS. There are also some mistakes and/or methods of calculating dps that i don't feel are very accurate for some classes. e.g. the TWF fighter should sit around 521 dps not 543 and barbarians in general should be slightly higher. There are also many more builds than evaluated here, but it does give a rough idea of how the classes compare.

[Alex301]

The stat's for the pure fighter look fine, although i might drop the wis score and put he points into con. Will saves aren't that necessary as you can be protected from many spells that target will saves by spells such as freedom of movement. More health is always good too.

If you have a capped barbarian you could always TR into the blitz build and pick up the past life feat for some better rages. It's a very solid build then and is worth considering. One thing worth mentioning is that the barbarian past life feat is not WAI and is not meant to increase the duration of your rages. The dev's have said this and so presumably they will fix it. With shorter rages the build isn't quite as appealing but when/if the dev's get around to fixing it is anyone's guess.

Two other builds that come to mind are consumer's TWF barbarian build, which also offers very strong DPS (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=287077) and the monster build (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172630) I currently have a variant of this but i've adapted to for half orcs and rogue levels instead of monk. Offers very good DPS as well and very versatile but its damage is a bit more situational and a bit squishier than some other builds. Otherwise there are a ton of other builds on the forums worth looking at.

[MrRotten]

Thanks for all the information, greatly appreciated!!!

So, I have made a few decisions...

FIRST: Since this is my first toon after being gone for a long time, and the fact I am a huge fan of Barbs and love what the Half Orc brings to that class... First I am going to just build me a new Pure Barb.

Here's the run down:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Half-Orc Male
(20 Barbarian)
Hit Points: 380
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 6
Will: 8

Starting Ending
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 20 27
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 18 20
Intelligence 6 8
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 6 8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending
Base Skills Base Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 0.5 11
Bluff -2 -1
Concentration 4 6
Diplomacy -2 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -2 -1
Heal -1 0
Hide -1 0
Intimidate 2 22
Jump 5 23
Listen -1 0
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -2 -1
Search -2 -1
Spot -1 0
Swim 5 10
Tumble -0.5 0.5
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+1.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 7 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 8 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 11 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 14 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) ***UNDECIDED????***


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower I
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower II
Enhancement: Barbarian Willpower III
Enhancement: Barbarian Might
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution III



Just a rough plan, the Enhancements are subject to change, but for the most part, this is how I would build the Pure HOrc Barb.


And as for my Capped Barb... WELL: First, I realized he isn't capped, he's level 19, so not quite. Plus, he's a Dwarf Barb. So yea, I think I like the idea of TRing him and giving the Blitz build and picking up the Past Life feats. I've never TRed a toon yet, sounds fun!

[Alex301]

For THF barbarian builds shade is the person to go to. A detailed guide to several versions of them can be found here http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=298161

[Spangled]

Thanks for the responses...

I was looking through the updates, and just for everyone's knowledge, I think the last time I played DDO was around Update 4 or 5(ish), I think... Everything beyond those just looks all brand new and I don't remember seeing any of that stuff. The last Raid I remember running was with the Devils and the Demons and all the crafting (of which I still have no idea how to do.)


Yea, Power Critical looked good initially, thanks for the info.

Why do Fighters need Quick Draw now? By my understanding, it only affects ranged weapons? IE: Throwing Weapons or Bows?

Stunning Blow used to suck, did it get improved? When?

Cleave and Great Cleave used to be decent, but yea, guess that's changed now. Thanks for the info! :)


These are the priorities of which I would like to build from:
1.) DPS DPS DPS
2.) Survivability (Because I know from the one raid with the Devils and Demons that things were starting to get heavily ramped up in difficulty.)
3.) Solo-ability (As I have been away from game for a long time, need to re-learn and get a new feel for it, so alot of early/mid solo missions I see coming.)
4.) Not gear dependent, but heavily improved with great gear. (As I am starting back out pretty poor, need to restock the funds.)

What would be recommended from here?

All in all my play style is a purist, but multiclassing I have done and can be fun/interesting.

EDIT:
This build looks fun: Blizt HALF ORC: 12 FIGHTER/6 BARBARIAN/ 2 ROGUE
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3151377#post3151377

Although I am leary with it because like I said, I am a purist...

Have you considered a 2hf half-orc warchanter Kensai? 8 Bard/12 Fighter. Start with 20 str and build it like a fighter. You'll have 40 base strength with a +2 tome at level 20, boosted to 50 with just rage and kensai strength boost. The high half orc strength and warchanter song bonuses and korthos items mean you can run around with power attack on all the time from level 2 onwards. You can self heal, use lots of scrolls and wands without recourse to umd etc. Lots of fun to play - basically the same dps as a pure fighter (disregarding the 10% alacrity capstone) and you can provide the whole party with +5 to hit and +6 damage from your songs when a pure bard isn't available (which makes up for some of the dps due to no capstone, and more than makes up for it if you are in a party or raid with no proper bards as that +6 dmg applies to everyone's hits.) You can self haste, self displace, and self heal.

16 bard 4 fighter is also nice, but trades lower dps for ottos irresistable dance etc.

[MrRotten]

For THF barbarian builds shade is the person to go to. A detailed guide to several versions of them can be found here http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=298161

Hey thanks, yea I checked those THF builds, I like those alot.

I think I'll roll with one of those for my HOrc and eventually work towards the Legendary build.

I have my Dwarf Barb though too, he was my very first toon when I started this game, its a 28pt build, it's solid, but still greatly outdated, so I think I will TR him and maybe incorporate the Blitz build with him.


Have you considered a 2hf half-orc warchanter Kensai? 8 Bard/12 Fighter. Start with 20 str and build it like a fighter. You'll have 40 base strength with a +2 tome at level 20, boosted to 50 with just rage and kensai strength boost. The high half orc strength and warchanter song bonuses and korthos items mean you can run around with power attack on all the time from level 2 onwards. You can self heal, use lots of scrolls and wands without recourse to umd etc. Lots of fun to play - basically the same dps as a pure fighter (disregarding the 10% alacrity capstone) and you can provide the whole party with +5 to hit and +6 damage from your songs when a pure bard isn't available (which makes up for some of the dps due to no capstone, and more than makes up for it if you are in a party or raid with no proper bards as that +6 dmg applies to everyone's hits.) You can self haste, self displace, and self heal.

16 bard 4 fighter is also nice, but trades lower dps for ottos irresistable dance etc.

I have honestly never rolled up a Bard... doesn't really appeal to me, although I know those builds are very strong. Thanks though for the suggestion!