DDO and Immersion

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

As it stands, I find that DDO is not a game with good immersion.

The stories are often well told in the quests, yet without any voices or sense of drama, I'm certain that for many players, the stories are simply ignored. I feel that part of the reason I played DnD in the first place was the sense of immersion one could experience with well told stories.

That said, what could be improved?

I want to ask how this could be changed and what changes could be made to make this possible. And yes I realize that this is asking Turbine to do a lot, but hey we can "suggest" this can't we? :D

So some ideas that I've heard of in the past...

1. Voices
The Kobolds in the Cove were awesome. While CC's actual story was not very immersive, the quest inside felt much more alive with the kobolds screaming all the time. I'm done with the DM voicing the characters in the quests. It's laughable in my opinion...

2. More explorer areas
This one needs some explaining. But mainly adding an explorer area that would connect different places together. I've seen a thread before mentioning the quest Come Out and Slay as an example of such. While some may say that this would be irritating when you're trying to get somewhere but you could also add in some kind of transportation like the Desert Caravan which will take you to wherever you need to go.

3. Cinemas
There's a couple thread I've seen that suggested this. I think it'd be great with the right implementations. This would make raid bosses seem more intimidating. (Imagine Velah in full blown CG!) By cinemas, I also imagine more along the lines of how Ocarina of Time introduced their bosses. Longer ones could be worked in but we don't want to frustrate any players by making too long of cutscenes as well.

I think it may even be more appropriate if you put in "death" scenes so that if an individual player decides to skip the cinema, it has no effect on the quest.

Another idea for cinematic cutscenes is to allow players to rewatch the cutscenes that they have "unlocked" so to speak. This cutscene theater could be an amenity for an airship or could be implemented by allowing you to watch it at the quest giver if you want.

4. Less instances
I think there are places where instances could be eliminated to reduce loading screen time. One place is guild airships and I also think many of the shops could have their instances removed and simply added to the larger map. (I'm thinking about the Twelve where it takes several loading screens to get anywhere in that building...)

5. Open ended quests
By having quests that can have multiple endings and possibly multiple possible objectives, quests can be a lot more fun they are now. Some of the "Random Dungeon" generator stuff has been placed in quests (Prey, Litany, Shroud come into mind). If only they can really produce a truly randomized dungeon, that would be great.

People have also discussed MAKING their own quests. I think that's a fantastic idea as long as xp/loot wasn't involved. It could even be a kind of endgame thing for people... (Imagine Thoon's Lamma event...but YOU could be Thoon! :D)

6. Your suggestions :D

I'd love to hear what people have to say!

[Relenthe]

cutscenes would be good once or twice but would be quite annoying. They are more suited to 1 player games. You can't skip in an MMO because that would require some sort of option for all the players in the party to skip it at the same time.

More instances reduce lag. While this is not necessarily true for places like stores, that's the reason why the marketplace is split up into so many instances. I would /sign the airship being 1 instance though

Definetely /sign more voiceover's though. I think they have already noticed this is a popular addition and are adding more to the new quests coming in.

More explorers? meh. While I'm sure a lot of people enjoy this aspect, after I get all the explorers done on a zone once I tend to just do the minimum from then on in as it's not very good xp/minute.


The times that I have the most fun in this game is

A. All guild runs
B. Looting something I have been waiting a long time for
C. Running things with a lot of pressure on my shoulders (first time kiting in Tod and other moments like this)
D. Pulling through a near-fail experience

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

True true, cutscenes really do work better in one player games. It's one of the reasons that they are so much more immersive though. I'd love to see a way to implement it...somehow...

I figure a mechanic that could work is if the party leader can decide whether the groups watch it or not. That way, for the most part, guilds can be uninvolved in being slowed down by the cutscene. If the cutscenes aren't annoyingly long, however, it could make watching it again, forgivable lol

More instances reduce lag, yes, but there are places that don't have a high density of activity. Obviously the marketplace is always full but like the Twelve and guild airships? They aren't gonna be packed ever as it stands now. I don't mean to make Stormreach one big instance, but I think there are certain places where it could be afforded to make it more unified.

The explorer part kind of goes off the above point. It just makes Stormreach feel bigger and I think as far as MMOs go bigger is better (as long as everything is easily accessible). While I didn't imagine it being a xp hot spot, it would allow for more named loot opportunities, more quest chains, and more places to kill off boredom.

[Culver.Civello]

+1 I like a lot of those ideas...

...but lets not push it too far. Remember WoW?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m7ewouLQXA

These kinds of things happen when players are TOO immersed...

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

You know when you've got a great game when you have those kind of people :D

[Tom318]

It's the players that make the game. With good players you can have an unbelievable level of immersion :)

[baddax]

I dont like immersion I cant swim!

[Claver]

The only idea I can get behind is more voice work but consider this, as much as I enjoy DM narration, I often have to turn it off out of necessity to hear voice chat of other players. Wouldn't the same problem exist with voice from monsters - that's a lot of wasted resources from Turbine.


In terms of cut scenes, open explorer areas requiring more travel time to quest read through the treads on Favorite DDO quests and most hated DDO quests.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=312418

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=302501

It would seem many people are motivated by xp/minute (or lack there of) and annoyed by having to wait. Add cut scenes and you make people wait for their xp, add a long run to a quest through a wilderness zone ala 3-barrel cove and the majority will choose to zerg all 4 of the depths of doom/darkness/despair quests to maximize their xp per minute in the time it would take them to swim to Ghost of a Chance and back.

[elujin]

better music in quests
the newer quest or more or less but the music could be more epic *thinks clasical choire stuff*

[Samadhi]

I think the only way for the Immersion to improve is really on the players to just shut their holes long enough to see it instead of talking endlessly over VC or expecting someone else to explain everything for them.

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

The only idea I can get behind is more voice work but consider this, as much as I enjoy DM narration, I often have to turn it off out of necessity to hear voice chat of other players. Wouldn't the same problem exist with voice from monsters - that's a lot of wasted resources from Turbine.


In terms of cut scenes, open explorer areas requiring more travel time to quest read through the treads on Favorite DDO quests and most hated DDO quests.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=312418

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=302501

It would seem many people are motivated by xp/minute (or lack there of) and annoyed by having to wait. Add cut scenes and you make people wait for their xp, add a long run to a quest through a wilderness zone ala 3-barrel cove and the majority will choose to zerg all 4 of the depths of doom/darkness/despair quests to maximize their xp per minute in the time it would take them to swim to Ghost of a Chance and back.

I believe that the reason people are "motivated" by xp/minute as opposed to the story is because there is a sense of accomplishment that comes with the xp. If the story lines in the quests felt like you were actually accomplishing something more than just getting a lot of xp, I think people would enjoy that just as much. A couple of quests such as Tempest Spine and Stealer of Souls have a kind of grand feel to the quests while their xp/minute is not very good. (Well SoS isn't really run for xp for the most part)

The extra explorer zones that I suggest would be bypassable because everyone hates the long running that is also often associated with WoW. Much like how the quest Desert Caravan works, you could do the explorer zone once and then never have to do it again if you don't want to. If that makes sense?

Elujin, I completely agree. Sephiroth theme song anyone?!

[Ralmeth]

"Show, Don't Tell" - This is the path to immersion IMHO. How many people actually read what the quest giver tells them the quest is about? If you come across something to read or a NPC in quest, who stops to read these? If you solo or in a group that encourages this then you would, but if you're in a typical PUG if you stand around for 2 minutes to read what a NPC is saying, you're going to be 2 minutes behind the group most likely, or starting the quest 2 minutes late, or annoying the other people in the group that have already run the quest 50 times.

Suggestions to improve this:
-At the beginning of the quest you could have the NPC that gave you the quest give a quick introduction scene with a voice over. For example...The NPC points to the burning village in the distance and cries out, "Over there! They came out of nowhere and started killing everyone. Please help us!" Clicking on the NPC could open up a dialogue box where you could ask a few questions. If you've run the quest lots of times you wouldn't bother, but if you wanted to you could talk to them some more and perhaps they could even reply in voice. Perhaps NPC dialogue boxes could have an option for voice or not when they reply. If you've run the quest tons of times you just click the non-voice option to move the quest along, but if you want immersion you click the voice option.

-At key points in the adventure you could have cut-scenes in-game. Instead of going to a cut-scene movie, events could happen, NPCs could talk, etc. to further the story line.

That's my 2CPs, at least.

[shopach]

I agree with Ralmeth for the most part, though I have to say that (and I'm probably pretty alone in this) but while I love voice overs and the immersion that they bring, I can't listen to them because I've already read the text before they say the first few words and then it's just really irritating to listen to them say it. I really like games that implement voices that have optional subtitles (no dialogue box) and the volume of their voice decreases as you move away. That way if you want to hang out and listen, merry christmas, if not, run off and do your thing and it's still a merry christmas!

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

I think mini event cutscenes would be great as well.

For example in the quest to save the burning houses (lv. 3 quest...) there could be a quick shot of the burning buildings and then pan out to where the characters are.

I also really like Shopach's addition as well. Instead of a "end conversation" dialogue option, you should be able to move away and the NPC will simply cease to talk to you.

I think overall, the goal is to add different elements for immersion while minimizing the "frustration" of having to watch something over and over or hear something over and over.

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=313232

This link is to a recent thread about the stories of the different adventure packs and how they tie in together.

Honestly I had no idea about Velah's story and I've played through VoN a fair number of times. I think it would be way cooler to have some story elements really be brought in the light to the players. It's all too...texty for me and I tend to gloss over the text.

[Tom318]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=313232

This link is to a recent thread about the stories of the different adventure packs and how they tie in together.

Honestly I had no idea about Velah's story and I've played through VoN a fair number of times. I think it would be way cooler to have some story elements really be brought in the light to the players. It's all too...texty for me and I tend to gloss over the text.

What is this world coming to that a 50-word paragraph can be "too texty" :)

[Shyver]

The only idea I can get behind is more voice work but consider this, as much as I enjoy DM narration, I often have to turn it off out of necessity to hear voice chat of other players. Wouldn't the same problem exist with voice from monsters - that's a lot of wasted resources from Turbine.

^This.

In order to really get into the quest and take my time, I turn all the sound effects and music up, and then solo the quest.

The problem with voiceovers, as great as more would be, would be the same that we have with audio now. In order to hear your party members in voicechat, you have to turn all of the sound effects and music pretty much off.

Give us individual party member volume sliders and then add lots of voice overs to the mobs and quest givers. But until the audio concerns/problems are fixed, it would be wasted developer time.

[Mr_Ed7]

I find more fluff adds to the game as well. More guild adaptations (where are the multi-tiered member rankings?) More character modifications in the cosmetic department.

Yes, I was dissapointed in the lack of films or vinets in the game. Yes, voice-overs make the game interesting.

The thing I would like to see is more Choose Your Own Adventure style choices in the game. Perhaps opportunites for parties to vote on an outcomb.

[Tom318]

I find more fluff adds to the game as well. More guild adaptations (where are the multi-tiered member rankings?) More character modifications in the cosmetic department.

Yes, I was dissapointed in the lack of films or vinets in the game. Yes, voice-overs make the game interesting.

The thing I would like to see is more Choose Your Own Adventure style choices in the game. Perhaps opportunites for parties to vote on an outcomb.

Hm.. at least there's a real use for bluff and diplo :)

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

What is this world coming to that a 50-word paragraph can be "too texty" :)

Have you tried to read through Irestone Inlet?
I leveled a lowbie trying to read through all the different quests and then I got to Irestone. If you don't skip his story, it really is far too much. Tempest Spine, IIRC, is a long one as well. (I LIKE reading and I can't do it...)

Honestly, there's too much in the game that needs to be addressed before this thread has any real meaning.

Eventually, however, I want to see this stuff happen.

(I also edited more open ended quests. aka quests with multiple endings)

[redspecter23]

I think that too much immersion can actually get people less immersed in the quest. Take Gwylan's Stand for instance. I have never once read every word the quest giver says. It's just too long, especially if I'm in a group and need to get in and get going. I prefer what they attempted to do with the Vale quests. Notes and/or NPC's within the quests that will share some of the story as you go. You get it a bit at a time which helps in my opinion. It's a shame that reading the notes has no real in game purpose.

I'm totally on board with more voice overs though. CC really gets you into the game when the kobolds seem much more interactive. Many mobs in the game actually have some clever one liners, but since it's text bases it gets skipped over quickly or you run past the corpse as it's still speaking and you miss it all. One of the more amusing fights in the game is with the first skeleton boss in Litany of the Dead. I'd love a voice over for him.

I think that animated cutscenes could have a place in DDO. Perhaps have separate scenes unlocked when you finish raids. You get 3 different endings depending on the difficulty you complete it on. If we had player housing (or use the current airship amenities system I suppose), you could even include a purchasable viewing station to watch your unlocked cutscenes.

[AmatsukaIncarnate]

I think that too much immersion can actually get people less immersed in the quest. Take Gwylan's Stand for instance. I have never once read every word the quest giver says. It's just too long, especially if I'm in a group and need to get in and get going. I prefer what they attempted to do with the Vale quests. Notes and/or NPC's within the quests that will share some of the story as you go. You get it a bit at a time which helps in my opinion. It's a shame that reading the notes has no real in game purpose.

I'm totally on board with more voice overs though. CC really gets you into the game when the kobolds seem much more interactive. Many mobs in the game actually have some clever one liners, but since it's text bases it gets skipped over quickly or you run past the corpse as it's still speaking and you miss it all. One of the more amusing fights in the game is with the first skeleton boss in Litany of the Dead. I'd love a voice over for him.

I think that animated cutscenes could have a place in DDO. Perhaps have separate scenes unlocked when you finish raids. You get 3 different endings depending on the difficulty you complete it on. If we had player housing (or use the current airship amenities system I suppose), you could even include a purchasable viewing station to watch your unlocked cutscenes.

Some quests really do get long immersion or not...
I think Gwylan's is an example of too much text. It'd be easier to just let the guy talk for a little bit and then you get to go on your way and learn a bit more about the quest as you go along. I imagine a good example would be Irestone. So when the quest giver tells you his ship has been attacked and his crewmates have been captured, that's all he needs to say! And then as you find crew members they will have a voice over telling you about the next objective and so on and so forth.

I also expect that many people would disable these inquest events after awhile but at least for the first run through you could understand what exactly is going on and for me that would be wonderful and what I think should be implemented. The question now is how :P

I LOVE the cutscene "theater" idea. That's brilliant +1 to you sir. Turbine could use that as a way to get people to spend TP and I think it'd be cool to have a projection of it on your airship so that other people who haven't seen the cutscene an opportunity to watch someone killing Harry for their 1000th time.

Adding that to cutscenes on my first post as well.