"Con is not a dumpstat"

[Daggertooth]

I just want to shout a big 'thank you' to all the forum geniuses who have basically branded this into everyone's heads. If these players had ONE TENTH the ability of the amount of hit points they have, I think we'd really be onto something. As of now, there isn't one group I'm in with my bard that doesn't have 2-4 of these failed experiments running around looking for heals. I never fail to cringe after I wand hit myself and my hp goes up like half and I wand hit one of these pileons only to see their hp go up like a sliver. And they run around with this sliver of hit points until they die. Was I supposed to stand there and continue to hit them w/ the wand until they're full? Only so the next guy they run into can put em back at a sliver again? I just don't get it.

[Teech]

Our next big project should be

"Fortification is not an option."

[Truga]

One word: BYOH.

[TheDearLeader]

Con is not a dumpstat.

Can't heal stupid.

These two phrases are not mutually exclusive.

No one expects you to heal stupid.

No one expects you to get one-shotted from full.*

*Certain Restrictions Apply. See Game for Details.

[bryanmeerkat]

I just want to shout a big 'thank you' to all the forum geniuses who have basically branded this into everyone's heads. If these players had ONE TENTH the ability of the amount of hit points they have, I think we'd really be onto something. As of now, there isn't one group I'm in with my bard that doesn't have 2-4 of these failed experiments running around looking for heals. I never fail to cringe after I wand hit myself and my hp goes up like half and I wand hit one of these pileons only to see their hp go up like a sliver. And they run around with this sliver of hit points until they die. Was I supposed to stand there and continue to hit them w/ the wand until they're full? Only so the next guy they run into can put em back at a sliver again? I just don't get it.

So now we are complaining at people for having too many hitpoints ?

New message to instil

"Healing Potions are only for the Pro's " (people respond better to this than "but some pots, nub!"

[Theodores]

When at later game, heals hit for 600 a pop, you will want those hp because it will be wasted if you get to cap. And you, with your 40 hp are waaay more likely to die than those with 80 or 120. Just don't heal these guys, if they have that much hp, they will probably heal themselves. (if not in a raid, these 800 hp won't heal with csw pots!)

[EddieB_TBC]

Sorry bud but if you can full heal any build, much less a bard, with two whips of any wand in the game... well they make this thing called re-roll, and while you are at it please remember that CON is not a dumpstat. :|

[TheDearLeader]

Sorry bud but if you can full heal any build, much less a bard, with two whips of any wand in the game... well they make this thing called re-roll, and while you are at it please remember that CON is not a dumpstat. :|

Solar Phoenix with a Bard Splash? Cure Critical Wand hits him for ~400 HP? :D Lul. I think I want to roll something that goofy now.

[LoveNeverFails]

I play a cleric. A pretty **** good one too if I may say so myself. And It makes me more mad when i wand whip someone and their bar fills up. Because guess what? when the stinky stuff hits the fan, thats one less person that's gonna be up distracting the bad guys from me (though frankly with the build i'm on now that'll only be necessary on elite).

But really? complaining about too many HPs is ridiculous. Buy some more wands, and get over yourself. Or run with folks that only have 40 HPs and see how far you get. ;)

[Qezuzu]

Solar Phoenix with a Bard Splash? Cure Critical Wand hits him for ~400 HP? :D Lul. I think I want to roll something that goofy now.

Bards can't be multiclassed with Monks or Paladins, due to alignment restrictions.

Which sucks, because 16bard/2pal/2monk would be the greatest toon in existence.

[morticianjohn]

Sorry bud but if you can full heal any build, much less a bard, with two whips of any wand in the game... well they make this thing called re-roll, and while you are at it please remember that CON is not a dumpstat. :|

Cure critical wand for a lowbie toon at 80 HP could be a max con toon.

[macadope]

I feel the same way about wizards and int. I mean if my dump stat int wiz drinks a pneumonic pot it tops him off because he has no sp. But if a wiz who has invested in int drinks the same pot it only brings him up a sliver. What's the point?

/sarcasm off
Just wanted to demonstrate your logic. Hp is good. No is bad.

[I disagree with your idea about topping yourself off with a wand]

[TheDearLeader]

Bards can't be multiclassed with Monks or Paladins, due to alignment restrictions.

Which sucks, because 16bard/2pal/2monk would be the greatest toon in existence.

Ah yeah...I don't multiclass, so I always forget things like that.

Although to comment, I think 18 Bard/2 Rogue with Helf Pally Dilettante would come close, while actually following the current multiclassing mechanisms allowed.

[Teech]

I feel the same way about wizards and int. I mean if my dump stat int wiz drinks a pneumonic pot it tops him off because he has no sp. But if a wiz who has invested in int drinks the same pot it only brings him up a sliver. What's the point?

/sarcasm off


That's hilarious. *Dreams about dumping int on a wiz and boasting about how I can use sp pot(s) to fill my blue bar...*

[AeliusMaximus]

I just want to shout a big 'thank you' to all the forum geniuses who have basically branded this into everyone's heads. If these players had ONE TENTH the ability of the amount of hit points they have, I think we'd really be onto something. As of now, there isn't one group I'm in with my bard that doesn't have 2-4 of these failed experiments running around looking for heals. I never fail to cringe after I wand hit myself and my hp goes up like half and I wand hit one of these pileons only to see their hp go up like a sliver. And they run around with this sliver of hit points until they die. Was I supposed to stand there and continue to hit them w/ the wand until they're full? Only so the next guy they run into can put em back at a sliver again? I just don't get it.

I hope this is a joke. You do understand that having a "full" red-bar doesn't mean squat if you only have 65 hitpoints total at say level 12, riiiggghhht? Were you supposed to stand there and heal them ... yes. You said it best when you said you just don't get it .... sorry, couldn't resist. :)

You need to think of hitpoints as your "margin for error" ... and everyone does err. More HP == better. Simple.

Every battle is simply a race to zero hitpoints. The first person/mob to get there ... LOSES! :)

[stoerm]

I mean if my dump stat int wiz drinks a pneumonic pot

... he's on sick leave for at least a month?
... he needs strong antibiotics?
... he has trouble finding a group?

/getting my coat

[Zion_Halcyon]

At this point, I think I have heard it all -


Strength is not a dump stat
Dexterity is not a dump stat
Constitution is not a dump stat
Intelligence is not a dump stat
Wisdom is not a dump stat
Charisma is not a dump stat
So apparently nothing is a dump stat.

Got it.

We're just one step away from telling people not to spend any ability points ever because you don't want to be accused of dump-statting it. :(

[Therigar]

I just don't get it.

This ^^^. :eek:

The problem here is that neither Daggertooth nor the players he describes "get it."

Let's start with Daggertooth.

Actually, let's not. Anyone who would brag about using cure wands to bring themselves to nearly full hit points for a single charge and rant about how that same single charge barely impacts others can't be reasoned with. So any effort to help him overcome his perception problems is just wasted electrons.

So let's talk about the players he describes. They only exhibit one problem and that is running off to the next encounter before they are fully healed.

In their defense, if they are relying on Daggertooth to be the healer and he refuses to use more than one charge off a cure wounds wand then what option do the players have? I could fault them for not having their own healing. But, if they thought they did have healing -- and that it was Daggertooth -- then what is there to fault?

The solution is for them to dump Daggertooth from the group and to invest in a hireling. The hireling uses its healing without complaining and fills the role it has as a member of the group. Much better than a living player who thinks that they have done all they can to support the group by tossing off a single charge from a cure wand. And a lot better than having to listen to that player whine when they need to use half the wand to bring a single character to full health.

Wands have a place in the game for cures. It isn't as the main source of healing.

One note to Daggertooth (and the dev's as well). AC is meaningless in this game. At low levels it is too easy to have more than enough. At high levels it is too hard to have enough to matter. AC is broken.

This is why players run with huge HP and no AC while counting on bards, clerics and favored souls for healing. It is the poor balance and incomplete design that has driven this.

If Daggertooth wants to see things change he needs to talk to the developers over at Turbine. Until the AC system works and moderate effort at AC improvement at each character level actually results in monsters missing more than they hit -- until then the game is going to stay just as it is.

[phillymiket]

/sarcasm check

/rolls a 3

/Success!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxkOW0a_xAY
Very funny OP :)

[FuzzyDuck81]

every Battle Is Simply A Race To Zero Hitpoints. The First Person/mob To Get There ... Loses! :)

Qft :)

[Illiain]

At this point, I think I have heard it all -


Strength is not a dump stat
Dexterity is not a dump stat
Constitution is not a dump stat
Intelligence is not a dump stat
Wisdom is not a dump stat
Charisma is not a dump stat
So apparently nothing is a dump stat.

Got it.

We're just one step away from telling people not to spend any ability points ever because you don't want to be accused of dump-statting it. :(

No, Wis and Int really are dump stats, unless you're a Cleric or Wizard. I dumpstated my FvS's Chr and still got it to 20. Dex is a dumpstat if you're not a TWF.

Some Str is nice to have, even on casters, so you're not helpless with a ray of enfeeblement. Some Dex is nice to help boost reflex saves, but it won't really help much if you only have a +6 base save.

That leaves.... Con. The only one that's never conditionally a dumpstat.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

You have the skill and knowledge to be able to survive with lower HP. New players don't.
How long do you think those pileons of yours would have survived if they had less HP than what they actually had?

[Daggertooth]

An interesting, if not predictable response. Let me enlighten you all. I'm not only right in this issue, I'm much better at the game then all of you. First of all no one mentioned what lvl this was and second of all, if my characters aren't a big sack of stinking hit points, then thats obviously not the way the game should be played. Whether you want to arrive at this conclusion now or next year or the year after that really doesn't concern me. I think for your sake, just accept that I am much better then all of you. I played the game long before the guildies who instructed you on how to build your characters.

Trust me I am well aware of your little approach to the game. Run around w/ your panties in a bunch worried about being 'one shotted'. That's why my monk started w/ a 6 con and ended with over 100 AC and soloes whatever he wants. Throughout his whole life of levling there was ONE time where he was disintegrated. I think that weighs in a little more then the portable bathroom that all of you carry around w/ you to keep your hit points full.

This particular instance is around lvl 6 and my serious wands hit for around 40-50. Even still if you want to heal the giant potato sacks that you've created then come and do it. As for my bard he is a warchanter who leads the way, and its only after I see that someone else managed to get aggro and is now about to die and after I start to think 'is he gonna heal himself or??" that I sometimes try to be nice and hit them w/ my wand. Now if I'm getting 90% of the kills and 1 wand hit brings me up a third to a half I have a hard time justifying 'getting over myself' to stand there for 1 minute and heal one of these 'tanks' that you've created with your forum hysterics. I don't even know what a 'tank' is in an rpg.... and lord knows I don't want to know.

[eulogy098]

When you get to more difficult content you will discover that there is damage that is absolutely unavoidable. So that no matter how "skilled" you are, you WILL get hit anyhow. At that point it is better to be an HP stacked, mediocre player then the greatest player in the world with 10 con.

Because that mediocre player will still be able to contribute to the party. And you will be a ghost.



Even if you only every play the easy stuff... everyone rolls a 1 at some point... and you will go splat.




Con is NOT a dump stat. Reducing your HP pool will NOT make you a better player.

[Daggertooth]

You have the skill and knowledge to be able to survive with lower HP. New players don't.
How long do you think those pileons of yours would have survived if they had less HP than what they actually had?

A good question, and one I'll be happy to answer. They would last alot longer if they were taught the proper approach to the game. They should have a reasonable amount of hit points that they can refill on their own and they shouldn't be doing content that is going to one shot them.

[mws2970]

*snip* Let me enlighten you all. I'm not only right in this issue, I'm much better at the game then all of you. *snip*

LOL, wut?

[Daggertooth]

When you get to more difficult content you will discover that there is damage that is absolutely unavoidable. So that no matter how "skilled" you are, you WILL get hit anyhow. At that point it is better to be an HP stacked, mediocre player then the greatest player in the world with 10 con.

Thank you I've been hit w/ the meteors in the shroud, it doesn't mean I'm going to base my entire life on it. Funny I've never made any green steel weapons and yet I still somehow manage to pull the aggro in most raids? Coincidence?

Because that mediocre player will still be able to contribute to the party. And you will be a ghost.

Its about the playstyle and approach that is preached on these forums. Not all raids have to be about 10 jerks standing in a circle around the 'boss' . This is just the way that you've convinced yourself it should be because you were never taught any different.



Even if you only every play the easy stuff... everyone rolls a 1 at some point... and you will go splat.

And? When your as good as I am you can go splat occasionally and still stomp on 99% of the games population. Life goes on.




Con is NOT a dump stat. Reducing your HP pool will NOT make you a better player.

Wrong... Reduce and replenish....and move on. Learn to improve and not need to replenish so much. Do NOT follow the abyssmal advice that you see here.



//

[SableShadow]

I just want to shout a big 'thank you' to all the forum geniuses who have basically branded this into everyone's heads. If these players had ONE TENTH the ability of the amount of hit points they have, I think we'd really be onto something. As of now, there isn't one group I'm in with my bard that doesn't have 2-4 of these failed experiments running around looking for heals. I never fail to cringe after I wand hit myself and my hp goes up like half and I wand hit one of these pileons only to see their hp go up like a sliver. And they run around with this sliver of hit points until they die. Was I supposed to stand there and continue to hit them w/ the wand until they're full? Only so the next guy they run into can put em back at a sliver again? I just don't get it.

Right idea, wrong target.

You're complaining about abundant HP, when really you want to be complaining about pathetic defenses.

You are correct in that HP is margin for error, not a defense. However, there's nothing wrong with more HP.

You are also correct that a lotta players take advice that applies largely at the cap and try to implement it well below the cap...where it doesn't apply.

However, the core issue is, well, nubbliness on the part of the folks you were running with...not the mantra "con is not a dump stat".

[phillymiket]

Ah, OP is serious.
I guess I failed my sarcasm check after all.

Daggertooth, I remember you now.

You were the guy who said you just like to have fun and kill stuff and didn't really care if you got completions, XP or if the party wiped.

I think "Con is not a dump stat" is advice for new players who want to get completions, XP and not wipe.

If it doesn't apply to you then it doesn't apply to you.

[dkyle]

They should have a reasonable amount of hit points that they can refill on their own

Why is "refilling" HP important?

If a 400 max HP Barb is at 100 HP, he's exactly as close to death as a 100 max HP Bard at full health.

If you feel they have more HP than is necessary, than don't refill them the whole way. Simple as that. Before Heal, it is generally best not to fully top off. Excess healing is wasted healing, and at those low levels, there aren't many things that make having a lot of HP that important. Damage comes in dribbles, not huge spikes, as it does at end-game.

Unless they're a WF with no healers friend or healing amp, "that only healed him a little?" should be an exclamation of happiness, not frustration.

I do agree that anyone should be able to keep themselves alive in just about anything but big boss fights in Raids. Just not that "keeping yourself alive" necessarily means keeping your HP bar full. When I'm soloing, I often hover around 50%.

[eulogy098]

//

you have not played any difficult content if your response to that is a shroud run.

[kcru]

If Daggertooth wants to see things change he needs to talk to the developers over at Turbine. Until the AC system works and moderate effort at AC improvement at each character level actually results in monsters missing more than they hit -- until then the game is going to stay just as it is.


Hear here! The biggest problem with the game as I understand it. I always play a high-AC cleric in PnP. I've basically been told that will eventually be impossible. That's just stupid. :)

[dkyle]

Funny I've never made any green steel weapons and yet I still somehow manage to pull the aggro in most raids? Coincidence?

Non-GS weapons can exceed GS weapons.

And you seem to be under the impression that people who don't dump CON instead dump their DPS. I can assure you, the vast majority of those high HP tanks your railing on are also max STR, and as max DPS as they can manage.


Its about the playstyle and approach that is preached on these forums. Not all raids have to be about 10 jerks standing in a circle around the 'boss' . This is just the way that you've convinced yourself it should be because you were never taught any different.

Then what's your magic method for ToD that doesn't involve a high HP Horoth tank, and a bunch of others hitting his backside?

How do you do shroud? High AC, low DPS characters that can self heal from potions, but take forever to kill Harry?

It's easy to say "there are other ways". I'd suggest putting up, if you want to be taken seriously.

[Khanyth]

Having too much HP is like having too much money......

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m257/dholifield/unpossible.jpg

However, if your attempt at geting max HP prevents you from doing your job as a character, that's a bad thing. For example, while a lot of people probably respect a barb that has >1000 hp, that respect goes out the window if that barb can't hit, kill, or keep agro.

Nevertheless, of all the stats out there, con is not a dumpstat.

[Drakos]

A good question, and one I'll be happy to answer. They would last alot longer if they were taught the proper approach to the game. They should have a reasonable amount of hit points that they can refill on their own and they shouldn't be doing content that is going to one shot them.
Well, the 'CON is not a dumpstat" is part of the proper approach to the game. I don't agree that everyone needs a base CON of 18 before racial and other modifiers, but anything below 12 is really a poor approach to character development. Yes, skill can help suppliment for a few less HP, but as has been pointed out, there are always instances where damage is unavoidable (you roll 1 to save, the attacker rolls a 20, ect...) Too few HP makes survaval of these situation trenuous at best.

[elujin]

I just want to shout a big 'thank you' to all the forum geniuses who have basically branded this into everyone's heads. If these players had ONE TENTH the ability of the amount of hit points they have, I think we'd really be onto something. As of now, there isn't one group I'm in with my bard that doesn't have 2-4 of these failed experiments running around looking for heals. I never fail to cringe after I wand hit myself and my hp goes up like half and I wand hit one of these pileons only to see their hp go up like a sliver. And they run around with this sliver of hit points until they die. Was I supposed to stand there and continue to hit them w/ the wand until they're full? Only so the next guy they run into can put em back at a sliver again? I just don't get it.

well you did heal them for the same amount you did your self and nobody is making you fill there bar completly

[Daggertooth]

you have not played any difficult content if your response to that is a shroud run.

Um ok, and you are? Actually that is the only thing in the game that cannot be avoided because there is no save for it. If you were hit with anything else that is an error on your part. Its all one big error. Any need for a heal at any point in the game is an error. The problem is that people like to be lazy so they create the need for the healer. Sure, not all melees should be able to avoid all hits, but anytime a heal was needed, it was a break down either from the mage or a failure of basic tactics on the part of the melee.

[Cauthey]

Our next big project should be

"Fortification is not an option."

I like that. Though, I would make a small addition to prevent misinterpretations:

"Fortification is not an option. It's required."

[dkyle]

Um ok, and you are? Actually that is the only thing in the game that cannot be avoided because there is no save for it.

How do you avoid rolling a 1 on a 500 point disintegrate?

Tactics that result in unavoidable failure due to a 1 in 20 die roll are not acceptable.


If you were hit with anything else that is an error on your part. Its all one big error. Any need for a heal at any point in the game is an error.

Taking damage is not an "error". It's simply a cost. A cost that can be outweighed by other benefits.


The problem is that people like to be lazy so they create the need for the healer. Sure, not all melees should be able to avoid all hits, but anytime a heal was needed, it was a break down either from the mage or a failure of basic tactics on the part of the melee.

I'm rather confounded here. What content have you been playing for the 5 years since you joined?

[mws2970]

Um ok, and you are? Actually that is the only thing in the game that cannot be avoided because there is no save for it. If you were hit with anything else that is an error on your part. Its all one big error. Any need for a heal at any point in the game is an error. The problem is that people like to be lazy so they create the need for the healer. Sure, not all melees should be able to avoid all hits, but anytime a heal was needed, it was a break down either from the mage or a failure of basic tactics on the part of the melee.

This is incorrect on so many levels. I'm not sure where to even begin.

[Talcyndl]

I assume this is a joke.


God, I hope this is a joke. :p

[Daggertooth]

Non-GS weapons can exceed GS weapons.

And you seem to be under the impression that people who don't dump CON instead dump their DPS. I can assure you, the vast majority of those high HP tanks your railing on are also max STR, and as max DPS as they can manage.



Then what's your magic method for ToD that doesn't involve a high HP Horoth tank, and a bunch of others hitting his backside?

How do you do shroud? High AC, low DPS characters that can self heal from potions, but take forever to kill Harry?

It's easy to say "there are other ways". I'd suggest putting up, if you want to be taken seriously.

My method would require a complete break down of everything you think you know and would entail the same method that I've always pushed on these forums. Keep quiet and play your character. Let the stones fall where they may. Yes, it would involve being more self sufficient at the cost of taking a little longer but that is a low price to play for a game that actually has some meaning and excitement and where the players arent' waiting for the raid to end so they can pop the chest. And my last time in TOD, my character soloed Sulo with no healer and brought him down quite a ways before Horoth was killed. With a few flankers he could have easily been killed. DPS is not necessarily a trade off for AC.

[Dragavon]

you have not played any difficult content if your response to that is a shroud run.

This

[blitzschlag]

My method would require a complete break down of everything you think you know and would entail the same method that I've always pushed on these forums. Keep quiet and play your character. Let the stones fall where they may. Yes, it would involve being more self sufficient at the cost of taking a little longer but that is a low price to play for a game that actually has some meaning and excitement and where the players arent' waiting for the raid to end so they can pop the chest. And my last time in TOD, my character soloed Sulo with no healer and brought him down quite a ways before Horoth was killed. With a few flankers he could have easily been killed. DPS is not necessarily a trade off for AC.

i think i saw your lfm somewhen:

running with the devils. at end. need dps.

[eulogy098]

Um ok, and you are?



I guy with a current stack of 183 Epic Tokens and 94 Epic raid tokens on one toon alone. Not the world record, but clearly enough to say that I've done a few of epics and have an idea as to how they work.


Lets test it. I'de bet you my account that my toon is inarguably more effective in every epic than yours is in any epic. Or even any of the non-epic elites such as TOD or even VOD. Lets run together and see who spends more time waiting to be ressed. Lets attack opposite of each other and see who makes a bigger dent in a boss' hp.

--

You don't seem to understand that low hp characters require MORE healing then high hp characters. a 300 hp toon must get healed constantly, because even a tiny notch down on his red bar could mean incoming death. A 900 hp toon can happily wait till hes at 25% and then fully absorb that clerics 625 Heal spell where as you 300er just wasted the large majority of it, thus costing the cleric MORE sp over the coarse of a quest.

--

[Tom318]

Sorry bud but if you can full heal any build, much less a bard, with two whips of any wand in the game... well they make this thing called re-roll, and while you are at it please remember that CON is not a dumpstat. :|

Yes remember :

(1) HP is everything

(2) There's really nothing to do here but run around and hit things

(3) Everyone is DPS

(4) The whole point of the game is to get to level 20.. or 30.. or 50... or 86.. or..

If you enjoy doing anything else, well too bad for you.

[Khanyth]

You don't seem to understand that low hp characters require MORE healing then high hp characters. a 300 hp toon must get healed constantly, because even a tiny notch down on his red bar could mean incoming death. A 900 hp toon can happily wait till hes at 25% and then fully absorb that clerics 625 Heal spell where as you 300er just wasted the large majority of it, thus costing the cleric MORE sp over the coarse of a quest.

--


QFTFTWOMG

Can we let this thread die now?

[phillymiket]

Maybe there is something to learn here.
I'm not the greatest player so would love pointers.
You have indicated several times that you are the greatest player so you probably can provide.

I would just check out your characters but you have none available for inspection.

How will you make your bard unhittable in Epic content?

Best I can figure is a bard/monk maybe for a high 70s AC fully geared and buffed with paladins nearby etc.
That won't cut it I'm afraid.

What am I missing?

EDIT - Thanks for the heads up from the person who pointed out bards can't be monks due to alignment.
Brain fart.
I'd change it to appear less stupid but it seems fitting in this thread to appear stupid. :)

[Tom318]

An interesting, if not predictable response. Let me enlighten you all. I'm not only right in this issue, I'm much better at the game then all of you. First of all no one mentioned what lvl this was and second of all, if my characters aren't a big sack of stinking hit points, then thats obviously not the way the game should be played. Whether you want to arrive at this conclusion now or next year or the year after that really doesn't concern me. I think for your sake, just accept that I am much better then all of you. I played the game long before the guildies who instructed you on how to build your characters.

Trust me I am well aware of your little approach to the game. Run around w/ your panties in a bunch worried about being 'one shotted'. That's why my monk started w/ a 6 con and ended with over 100 AC and soloes whatever he wants. Throughout his whole life of levling there was ONE time where he was disintegrated. I think that weighs in a little more then the portable bathroom that all of you carry around w/ you to keep your hit points full.

This particular instance is around lvl 6 and my serious wands hit for around 40-50. Even still if you want to heal the giant potato sacks that you've created then come and do it. As for my bard he is a warchanter who leads the way, and its only after I see that someone else managed to get aggro and is now about to die and after I start to think 'is he gonna heal himself or??" that I sometimes try to be nice and hit them w/ my wand. Now if I'm getting 90% of the kills and 1 wand hit brings me up a third to a half I have a hard time justifying 'getting over myself' to stand there for 1 minute and heal one of these 'tanks' that you've created with your forum hysterics. I don't even know what a 'tank' is in an rpg.... and lord knows I don't want to know.

You know people will ignore this because in their world there's only one way to play the game.

[Eladiun]

I just want to shout a big 'thank you' to all the forum geniuses who have basically branded this into everyone's heads. If these players had ONE TENTH the ability of the amount of hit points they have, I think we'd really be onto something. As of now, there isn't one group I'm in with my bard that doesn't have 2-4 of these failed experiments running around looking for heals. I never fail to cringe after I wand hit myself and my hp goes up like half and I wand hit one of these pileons only to see their hp go up like a sliver. And they run around with this sliver of hit points until they die. Was I supposed to stand there and continue to hit them w/ the wand until they're full? Only so the next guy they run into can put em back at a sliver again? I just don't get it.


Well stated. Enjoy the DDO Store.

[mikesharpshooter]

(4) The whole point of the game is to get to level 20.. or 30.. or 50... or 86.. or..

If you enjoy doing anything else, well too bad for you.

"The whole point of the game is" having fun. imho

[dkyle]

My method would require a complete break down of everything you think you know and would entail the same method that I've always pushed on these forums. Keep quiet and play your character. Let the stones fall where they may.

So you advocate for no strategy or tactics. Everyone should be out for themselves, and if the resulting chaos doesn't result in a completion, too bad? No thanks. I'll take what limited strategy, tactics, and cooperation we have over that mess.


Yes, it would involve being more self sufficient at the cost of taking a little longer but that is a low price to play for a game that actually has some meaning and excitement and where the players arent' waiting for the raid to end so they can pop the chest.

Strategy and tactics most certainly have meaning.

I'm not sure what you're talking about in the last part. Reaver, Hound and Titan are certainly piker raids, but Shroud, VoD, ToD, epic DQ, VoN6 and Chrono aren't.


And my last time in TOD, my character soloed Sulo with no healer and brought him down quite a ways before Horoth was killed. With a few flankers he could have easily been killed. DPS is not necessarily a trade off for AC.

First off, who doesn't kill Sulu first? Only time, out of over 65 completions, I've been in a non-Sulu-killing run is when our second healer rage quit, and we had only one healer left. Second, Sulu is a kitten compared to Horoth, or even Harry. It is well known that an evasion AC-tank is pretty much untouchable. That doesn't mean AC-tanking Sulu is really much better than a WF Barb tanking, with a caster Reconning.

As for your DPS, that's hard to judge. Sounds like the rest of the party's DPS wasn't stellar to begin with. Perhaps you'd like to post your uber-AC and uber-DPS build?

Besides, my last time in ToD, my Light Monk, with no hate-amp, with shocking-burst ring swapped out for heavy fort ring after my Garments of Equilibrium broke, and only 450 HP, ended up tanking Horoth, holding aggro from full to dead, with Barbarians and Fighters in the group. Does that mean he was doing the DPS a good Barb would, or that he's a good choice to tank Horoth on a regular basis? Of course not. It means he was well equipped and well built compared to the rest of that group, and a little lucky.

[stainer]

@op

For some reason I couldn't find your builds listed in MyDDO. I would really like to look at the low con/high AC monk you speak of.

[Daggertooth]

I guy with a current stack of 183 Epic Tokens and 94 Epic raid tokens on one toon alone. Not the world record, but clearly enough to say that I've done a few of epics and have an idea as to how they work.

You can have an idea from now until doomsday it says nothing about your skill in the game. I've been playing the game three times longer then you have and I came up with half the strategies that your 'guildies' ended up teaching you. Mechanically separating the chicken to make 183 epic tolkens is a far cry from 5 years of playing the game.


Lets test it. I'de bet you my account that my toon is inarguably more effective in every epic than yours is in any epic. Or even any of the non-epic elites such as TOD or even VOD. Lets run together and see who spends more time waiting to be ressed. Lets attack opposite of each other and see who makes a bigger dent in a boss' hp.

Find me on Thelanis, I'll be happy to run with you and I'm sure you'll see what 5 years of this game does to someone. I can careless about your account. When you have 5 years of experience playing the game, trust me you don't need any more larges. Wanting someone's account seems more like the symptom of someone whos only been playing 2 years.

--

You don't seem to understand that low hp characters require MORE healing then high hp characters. a 300 hp toon must get healed constantly

Anyone who constantly needs to be healed or needs to be healed half as much as the guy who needs to be constantly healed (i.e. 600 hp) , or a third as many times (900), really has no business being there in the first place.

--

//

[Chai]

/meh.

[dkyle]

Yes remember :

(1) HP is everything

Nope. This is not equivalent to what we actually say, which is, essentially, "HP is never nothing".


(2) There's really nothing to do here but run around and hit things

Why would you say this?


(3) Everyone is DPS

No, but you should have some means to contribute to a groups success. Simply being survivable does little to help anyone else. You need DPS, or CC, or heals to contribute.


(4) The whole point of the game is to get to level 20.. or 30.. or 50... or 86.. or..

Actually, getting to 20 barely registers as an accomplishment for me. It is certainly no "the whole point of the game".

[Blackmoors]

I'm not only right in this issue, I'm much better at the game then all of you. [...] I think for your sake, just accept that I am much better then all of you. [...] Trust me I am well aware of your little approach to the game.

Well, I would just like to congratulate you on this thread and your posts, it really made me laugh (not because it was ridiculous but because all my life Ive looked for monk elf builds with 6 con and now I found someone that relates to that)! I dont know in what server you play but Im tempted to roll a character there, I always wanted to mee the best DDO player in the World - as well as knowing everyone that plays DDO so you clearly know how everyone approaches the game and how your the best DDO player (did I mention that already? Sorry, im so excited to finally know who the best player in the world is I look like a teenage girl seeing Justin Bieber for the first time!) that was, is and will ever be! Im sure Turbine will be sending you your medal any time soon...


I played the game long before the guildies who instructed you on how to build your characters.

Your posts in this thread, as I said before, are brilliant in any way to the extent I feel I need to address some parts of it so we can all bask in your glorious knowledge. In this particular case, you tell everyone your the oldest player in the game when many of us, myself included, played it since beta. Were you on beta? Maybe your the first player of DDO... or even its creator!


That's why my monk started w/ a 6 con and ended with over 100 AC and soloes whatever he wants.Now if I'm getting 90% of the kills and 1 wand hit brings me up a third to a half.

Again, I feel the need to congratulate you! As everyone knows (or if you dont you will now so pay attention), the best build out there is the Constitution 6 elf/drow Monk! Monks are great per se but yours im sure is stellar! You should consider giving advise (did I say give? Sorry for that, You should get paid for your advise, after all your the best player in the world!) on how to build characters, always based on the premise of dropping Con so you can top of with 2 or 3 CSW pots/wand weeps!

Just to finish my post, you do well in staying with your level 20s on low content, after all mobs dig through 100 AC on epic and theres no such thing as wand healing on epic quests. Your also smart in playing with people that play gimped toons to the point that your bard as 90% of the kills when his buffs affect everyone (that or you run to a corner and use the songs only on you, either way its brilliant!). Congrats on everything your achieved and dont be shy on bless us with this kind of DDO pearls of knowledge, their are really useful and a great contribute to DDO in general...

[Schmoe]

This thread is great! When do I get to learn how to be better than everyone else? :confused:

[Cardtrick]

It never ceases to amaze me how easily these forums are trolled. I swear the DDO forums have the lowest troll-resistance of any online community I've encountered, including knitting blogs.

[mws2970]

This thread is great! When do I get to learn how to be better than everyone else? :confused:

You will never be better than the OP. Just ask him! :P

[Talon_Moonshadow]

//

Everytime I am about to give you rep, you throw out an "I'm better than everyone else comment" and I feel I have to change my mind. :(

[Teech]

No! My e-peen is bigger!

[Khanyth]

Hey all:

Did you just have a PUG wipe because everyone else had jack squat hp and died in 1, maybe 2 shots? Did you ask them why they have such an attrociously low HP level, and they said that they read on the forums that this is the way to go and build and play a toon? Did you always wonder why or how such things happen?

This is why.

Blame Daggertooth and his "I'm so good that I can spit out how elite and epic and awesome I am, yet when it comes time to showing builds or backing up my claims, I shrink like a violet and avoid the subject" attitude.

[Khanyth]

It never ceases to amaze me how easily these forums are trolled. I swear the DDO forums have the lowest troll-resistance of any online community I've encountered, including knitting blogs.

You go on knitting blogs? Awesome!

Plus Juan for you!... EDIT: ****, lemme spread some rep first

[Drakos]

You can have an idea from now until doomsday it says nothing about your skill in the game. I've been playing the game three times longer then you have and I came up with half the strategies that your 'guildies' ended up teaching you. Mechanically separating the chicken to make 183 epic tolkens is a far cry from 5 years of playing the game.

Find me on Thelanis, I'll be happy to run with you and I'm sure you'll see what 5 years of this game does to someone. I can careless about your account. When you have 5 years of experience playing the game, trust me you don't need any more larges. Wanting someone's account seems more like the symptom of someone whos only been playing 2 years.

Anyone who constantly needs to be healed or needs to be healed half as much as the guy who needs to be constantly healed (i.e. 600 hp) , or a third as many times (900), really has no business being there in the first place.

Believe me, 5+ years of playing the game does not prove anything except that you played the game for a long time. You haven't played longer than me, and I will be the first to admit that there are people who are better than I am.

I trust advice from people who can demonstrate working knowledge of the game by showing proof (ie, the furits of their gamming that are BtA so they couldn't just buy them) over someone who can just show an earlier join date. You make alot of grandiose proclimations, but when asked for evidence of your superior playing ability you drag out a May 06 join date. That date means nothing unless you can also show you have dones something with all that time!

[Daunth]

If you heal half of your red bar with one whip, it means you lose half of your red bar just as quickly.

How about skill to avoid damage AND hp too?

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Why is "refilling" HP important?

If a 400 max HP Barb is at 100 HP, he's exactly as close to death as a 100 max HP Bard at full health.

If you feel they have more HP than is necessary, than don't refill them the whole way. Simple as that. Before Heal, it is generally best not to fully top off. Excess healing is wasted healing, and at those low levels, there aren't many things that make having a lot of HP that important. Damage comes in dribbles, not huge spikes, as it does at end-game.

Unless they're a WF with no healers friend or healing amp, "that only healed him a little?" should be an exclamation of happiness, not frustration.

I do agree that anyone should be able to keep themselves alive in just about anything but big boss fights in Raids. Just not that "keeping yourself alive" necessarily means keeping your HP bar full. When I'm soloing, I often hover around 50%.

THat means that the only difference (HP wise) between a 400 HP Brb and a 100 HP is that one guy has to heal up between battles and the other one does not.

If anyone runs off to the next fight without healing up.....and does just fine.
That means that the gimp next to him, with half his HP, can also do just fine....
As long as he stops to heal up between fights.

[Zaodon]

I'd reply to this thread and say that "HP and damage are absolute, not relative", but I feel that would be a terrible waste of my time due to lack of comprehension.

So, I'm not going to.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

you have not played any difficult content if your response to that is a shroud run.

I'm curious just what this difficult content is.
And how many HP are required to complete it.

[eulogy098]

I'm afraid he must have some kind of learning disability.

To play for five years and still not know that most classes cant have enough ac to get miss on anything over a 2.

To play for five years and still not know that those classes that can get ac, cant do it without huge DPS sacrifice.

To play for five years and still not have played a single elite raid.

To play for five years and still not have run any epics at all.

To play for five years and still not learn how to contribute to a group beyond level 6.

[SaneDitto]

Giggety.

[dkyle]

THat means that the only difference (HP wise) between a 400 HP Brb and a 100 HP is that one guy has to heal up between battles and the other one does not.

Only if you're playing content where the maximum damage per battle is less than 100 HP.

Suffice to say, this is not the case at endgame. As soon as you need healing during a fight, max HP matters.

Do not misinterpret my argument as one supporting low HP characters at end-game. My Bard runs around with 560 HP, without Yugo pots. My Monk now sits at around 500 before Yugo/Madstone, and it still doesn't feel like enough. I'm a huge advocate of more HP.


I'm curious just what this difficult content is.
And how many HP are required to complete it.

An obvious example would be ToD. If you want a reliable completion (one that doesn't depend on luck for not rolling a 1), you need a Horoth tank with at least 500 HP. In practice, 600 is really the minimum, and even that is straining the healers. 700-800 are preferable, and the more the better.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

How do you avoid rolling a 1 on a 500 point disintegrate?

Tactics that result in unavoidable failure due to a 1 in 20 die roll are not acceptable.



Taking damage is not an "error". It's simply a cost. A cost that can be outweighed by other benefits.



I'm rather confounded here. What content have you been playing for the 5 years since you joined?

A ray attack has to actually hit you to cause damage (or require a save)
Not being hit by it in the first place is how you avoid it.

But.....
It is safe to say, that no matter how god you are, you will take damage sometimes.

I can agree that taking damage could be considered making a mistake.
But everyone makes mistakes.
Not always, not as as often as most other players....but everyone makes mistakes.

It's part of a complete package IMO to have enough HP to survive most of those mistakes.

It is a balance thing. I'd like tons of HP, but I'd also like a super Ref save so I don't take tons of AOE damage....
So I have to decide how much to invest where. And see what gear I can get to beef up all of those things I want...

But skill really can minimise the damage you take.
(Actually, I take less damage because of the lack of skill of other players in my parties :rolleyes: )

[Kmnh]

There are flaming and acid weapons on the DDO Store. I suggest any new players to buy one before taking part in this thread

[dkyle]

A ray attack has to actually hit you to cause damage (or require a save)
Not being hit by it in the first place is how you avoid it.

You're saying you can reliably dodge Ray attacks from a boss you're tanking?

[Wizzly_Bear]

I humbly bow to your obviously greater DDO ability Talonkage ranger11/wizard5/rogue4 who "plays DDO instead of looking for a job". I beg you to impart your wisdom upon me that I might become better than everyone else just like you.

[FlyingTurtle]

I humbly bow to your obviously greater DDO ability Talonkage ranger11/wizard5/rogue4 who "plays DDO instead of looking for a job". I beg you to impart your wisdom upon me that I might become better than everyone else just like you.

Don't do it. You'll both end up being better than each other and the universe will implode.

Also,

Unfunny sarcasm troll is unfunny. Would have made a great joke, but it fizzled.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Only if you're playing content where the maximum damage per battle is less than 100 HP.

Suffice to say, this is not the case at endgame. As soon as you need healing during a fight, max HP matters.

Do not misinterpret my argument as one supporting low HP characters at end-game. My Bard runs around with 560 HP, without Yugo pots. My Monk now sits at around 500 before Yugo/Madstone, and it still doesn't feel like enough. I'm a huge advocate of more HP.



An obvious example would be ToD. If you want a reliable completion (one that doesn't depend on luck for not rolling a 1), you need a Horoth tank with at least 500 HP. In practice, 600 is really the minimum, and even that is straining the healers. 700-800 are preferable, and the more the better.

Your TOD example needs one guy out of twelve with high HP.


But when things don't go smoothly, yeah, it really helps for everyone else to have some HP.

I'm just saying that people keep talking about this high lvl content where players take 500-8-- pont of damage juat walking into the dungeon, and I don't see it.

Epics mobs are almost always held. And honestly, they don't hit that hard! Their apells do more damage than their fists on Epic.

E Von6 and E DQ 2 are the only quests that I would consider needing a lot of HP to complete. And even then, I have completed with a lot less HP than most people say you need.

But let's forget about the Epic raids for a moment. And also the main tank who is trying to hold agro. (and traps that are just unfair IMO)

In every other case, the amount of damage you take depends on how much agro you have at one time.
You can survive and complete quests with low HP, simply by taking steps to reduce how many mosters can attack you at once.

Some people will chime in to tell me "what about quests like Sins where they all spawn around you at once?" I know for a fact, that you do not have to agro all of those Orthons at one time if you choose to try not to.

I'm not saying that a 6 Con gimp can survive. (although people have proved that a 6Con char can actually get a lot of HP)

And I totally agree that you using current popular raid tactics, you need one high HP main tank to hold agro.

I also agree that if you are surrounding Harry in the Shroud, you stand a much better chance of not dying the more HP you have. Especially since everyone insists on healing through the blades now.

I'm just saying that I haven't seen content yet that is so hard that it cannot be completed with less than 500 HP chars. (main tank might be an exception)

[Zaodon]

I'm just saying that I haven't seen content yet that is so hard that it cannot be completed with less than 500 HP chars. (main tank might be an exception)

Since shrines and rez cakes can be bought from the DDO store, you can complete any quest if you're willing to die enough.

High HP isn't about ability/non-ability to complete. Its about how easy/hard it is to complete, and how many resources (mana potions, heal scrolls, rez cakes, etc.) it takes to complete.

Players don't want to expend lots of resources for every quest they run. The single best way to minimize resources and get a smooth run is by having high HP.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You're saying you can reliably dodge Ray attacks from a boss you're tanking?

No.

Not every char has to tank the boss.
If you choose to tank the boss, you most likely need some HP.

Although I don't think you should build a char for the sole purpose of worrying about if you roll a 1 on a savingthrow.

[Schmoe]

Enjoy the DDO Store!

*paraphrased*

Yes.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I humbly bow to your obviously greater DDO ability Talonkage ranger11/wizard5/rogue4 who "plays DDO instead of looking for a job". I beg you to impart your wisdom upon me that I might become better than everyone else just like you.

When did I say I was better than everyone else?!

I admit, I tend to brag about what I know I'm good at. But that is not the same thing.

I've grouped with you before...you should have some idea that I am capable.

Why suddenly attack me? Just because I agree with some of the things the Op says?

[Wizzly_Bear]

Don't do it. You'll both end up being better than each other and the universe will implode.

Also,

Unfunny sarcasm troll is unfunny. Would have made a great joke, but it fizzled.

I didn't realize I was trying to entertain you. Thank you for telling me not only what I was really attempting to do, but that I failed at it.

[Wizzly_Bear]

When did I say I was better than everyone else?!

I admit, I tend to brag about what I know I'm good at. But that is not the same thing.

I've grouped with you before...you should have some idea that I am capable.

Why suddenly attack me? Just because I agree with some of the things the Op says?

I'm not attacking you, but through you. I apologize for the confusion :)

Ie, you said you wanted to pos someone but couldn't because of x reason, I'm attacking through that for shiggles

[ArkoHighStar]

Yes Yes I am gonna do it:eek:

Hi Welcome !

This thread deserves it:D

[SableShadow]

Yes Yes I am gonna do it:eek:

Hi Welcome !

This thread deserves it:D

ZOMG! :eek: You MADMAN! :)

[Chai]

An interesting, if not predictable response. Let me enlighten you all. I'm not only right in this issue, I'm much better at the game then all of you. First of all no one mentioned what lvl this was and second of all, if my characters aren't a big sack of stinking hit points, then thats obviously not the way the game should be played. Whether you want to arrive at this conclusion now or next year or the year after that really doesn't concern me. I think for your sake, just accept that I am much better then all of you. I played the game long before the guildies who instructed you on how to build your characters.
.

I would actually agree with you save for one teensy weensy little tiny fact. Heal spells land for 800 points often enough that having more HP is actually better. There are plenty of ways to get this without sacrificing anything else. If it took multiple casts of the most efficient heal spell in the game to top someone off you would be right, but it does not. For the same mana, someone with 900 HP can be topped off. Healers are NOT actually paying more to keep higher HP toons alive. They are paying more to keep lower HP toons alive through having to cast the same spell multiple times that can top off alot more HP in one cast.

Melee damage is by far not the largest danger to dying. Elite TOD, (you know, that place where those people who are better than us should be playing regularly), which has some of the hardest fights in this game, are often times failed because this game will roll everyone a 1 on a save at some point. If you dont have the HP to cover that damage, not only do you die, but the boss gains a significant amount of HP back.



Although I don't think you should build a char for the sole purpose of worrying about if you roll a 1 on a savingthrow.

No, not for the sole purpose, but you build it knowing you WILL roll that 1, and that having HP to cover the damage is better than dying, which means ending up in a penalty box or giving a boss significant increase in HP back.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Since shrines and rez cakes can be bought from the DDO store, you can complete any quest if you're willing to die enough.

High HP isn't about ability/non-ability to complete. Its about how easy/hard it is to complete, and how many resources (mana potions, heal scrolls, rez cakes, etc.) it takes to complete.

Players don't want to expend lots of resources for every quest they run. The single best way to minimize resources and get a smooth run is by having high HP.

Why do you think it takes more resources to heal a low HP tanking char then to heal high HP one?

They will be taking the same amount of damage. Won't you be healing the same amount? And using the same amount of resources?

The only difference is if they cannot survive between heals...
Or am I missing something?

If Harry goes down in one minute. And you heal constantly throughout that one minute, you use the same healing reguardless of how many HP each person has don't you?

Or do you actually hold off healing and wait to see if you can save mana by healing less often?

I'm not actually concinced that makes any difference.

If people cannot survive between heals that is one thing.

If people die too often that also can cause some problems.
But even if you had a guy that dies five times in a quest, because he is not as sturdy as everyone else.... A typical quest has a whole lot more than five fights.
I'm not convinced that his dying five times actually made the quest significantly harder, or used significantly more resources to complete.

Now if he dies in every single fight.....like in the begining of every fight....
Well, then I would agree that you would have been better off without him.

But simply having less HP does not mean you will die.


I would argue than an effective AC uses less resources.
And while an effective AC may not be possible at (all of the) end game; it can be useful for much of the game.

I would also argue that a good Ref save....especially with Evasion, but even without... means you take a lot less damage, and use a lot less resources.

Don't totally misunderstand me... I am for having as much HP as possible.
But I am more for damage mitigation.
And I prefer a balanced and versitile build...to one who is just a rock.

[ArkoHighStar]

ZOMG! :eek: You MADMAN! :)

yeah I'm just a wildman

[cpito]

Keep quiet and play your character.

This is a good piece of advice. You should follow it yourself.

[Shyver]

If Harry goes down in one minute. And you heal constantly throughout that one minute, you use the same healing reguardless of how many HP each person has don't you?

Or do you actually hold off healing and wait to see if you can save mana by healing less often?



You used the shroud, but I'm going to go one step further and use just healing for big fights and while questing in general.

If the healer has Meatslab of the HighCon clan targetted for mass heals/cures and is going to toss heals when his bar gets down 40% or so, that heal will bring everyone back up to full or close to full. No worries, can toss a heal/cure every once in a while and do other things if needed.

If the healer has Dexlicious of the LowCon clan targetted for mass heals/cures and is going to toss heals when his bar gets down to 40% or so, that heal will bring everyone back up to full. Problem is, the cleric is constantly tossing heals to keep Dexlicious alive and is overhealing the party. Wasting resources and their own time because they are forced to babysit the LowCon clan.

The higher con builds give the healers the flexibility to do other things than babysit.

[Memek]

They will be taking the same amount of damage. Won't you be healing the same amount? And using the same amount of resources?

The only difference is if they cannot survive between heals...
Or am I missing something?
Yes, overhealing.

The more HP, the less overhealing. Less mana wasted per heal. Less heals cast. Less mana spent. Less time wasted in the casting animation.
Better everything.

I didnt understand the appreciation for high HP chars until i played a high level healer. Now i do.

[KillEveryone]

Dude, you don't understand that it is their playstyle that you are trying to dictate.

You can't fathom that there are a variety of playstyles and having a high CON is one of them.

[Therigar]

Let's start with Daggertooth.

Actually, let's not. Anyone who would brag about using cure wands to bring themselves to nearly full hit points for a single charge and rant about how that same single charge barely impacts others can't be reasoned with. So any effort to help him overcome his perception problems is just wasted electrons.

I don't often quote myself. I highlighted the relevant part.

Now, Daggertooth's responses:


An interesting, if not predictable response. Let me enlighten you all. I'm not only right in this issue, I'm much better at the game then all of you. <snip> I played the game long before the guildies who instructed you on how to build your characters.


They would last alot longer if they were taught the proper approach to the game.

Daggertooth believes he knows best because he is better than everyone else and he's discovered the right way to play DDO. Trying to discuss things with him is entirely unproductive because he believes he already has the only correct answer.

[Khanyth]

Daggertooth believes he knows best because he is better than everyone else and he's discovered the right way to play DDO. Trying to discuss things with him is entirely unproductive because he believes he already has the only correct answer.


That's because he's winning!!!! Or at least, bi-winning?

[Wizzly_Bear]

That's because he's winning!!!! Or at least, bi-winning?

Maybe they are just curious...

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I'm not attacking you, but through you. I apologize for the confusion :)

Ie, you said you wanted to pos someone but couldn't because of x reason, I'm attacking through that for shiggles

Ah....missunderstood. Sry.

Thx.

[Postumus]

Your idea about topping yourself off with a wand tells me that you must have well a below average iq

There's no need for that. You can make your point without being insulting.

[Postumus]

That's because he's winning!!!! Or at least, bi-winning?

He's only got half tiger blood?

[protokon]

1) con is not a dumpstat.

2) healing amp is your friend.

3) fortification is not an option.

that is all.

[Chai]

If Harry goes down in one minute. And you heal constantly throughout that one minute, you use the same healing reguardless of how many HP each person has don't you?

Or do you actually hold off healing and wait to see if you can save mana by healing less often?

I'm not actually concinced that makes any difference.



If you have one or two lower HP toons and a bunch of people who built for a solid amount of HP, the healer is now overhealing the entire rest of the raid just to keep those two alive with masses.

If you have a bunch of HP gimps, then the healer has to heal alot but since they are ALL low HP, it doesnt look like any one of them is teetering on the verge of death constantly, like it does in the other scenario where 6 people are being overhealed due to two having much lower HP.

A class that commonly has HP trouble, rogues...

There are 480 HP level 20 rogues, and there are 180 HP level 20 rogues. If you do a gear check on the two, you will also see that the higher HP rogue has better DPS gear as well, because alot of that gear is had from the same places. The rogue that has 300 more HP did not sacrifice anything, nor does the 180 HP rogue have anything the 480 HP rogue doesnt have. Pre shroud and pre epics, that rogue can still have ~380 HP, and not 180, simply by buying gear off the brokers. What else are they slotting into those gear spaces?

[Ironforge_Clan]

An interesting, if not predictable response. Let me enlighten you all. I'm not only right in this issue, I'm much better at the game then all of you.

And this is why I am just totally in love (in a totally platonic heterosexual way) with this forum poster!

Oh and just to have some fun with this I decided to find this older post to emphasis that this is a regular occuring theme for said poster.


It's amazing how our perception is filtered by our own views and shaped by the forces around us. I skimmed over the responses since my last post because I find them mildly amusing, and it really is baffling how things are taken out of context.

First of all... I never thought that the OP was asking for an easy button, or felt any condescension towards him in anyway. It appears that unlike the vast majority of the other people giving out 'advice', I actually understand that new players are swimming in a sea of information that they will eventually have to learn. One day, I'm sure that everyone will finally figure out that if anyone's post actually helped the OP, it was my original response.

Regarding how long it took me to reach lvl 20 and/or learn the game, and I have to say this is most laughable thing about this whole thread... I'll just say that I started this game at the beginning, and I have watched from afar everything that goes on in these 'forums'. I was lucky enough to know alot about many different (real) role-playing games coming in and also I happen to have grown up playing video games. Let me just say that I took aVERY different approach to this game and there are COUNTLESS things that I have used and implemented into my game over the years that have been 'written off' by everyone on the forums. I will just say that it has been HILARIOUS watching everyone agree with each other on the forums about so many things, that I know to be completely wrong. But to each his own. Like alot of us, I consider myself one of the best players in the entire game. Unlike most of us however, I don't think this is saying anything spectacular, as all it really says is that A)I've spent alot of time in the game, and B) that I happen to be very good at games in general. I think more people can benefit from realizing that a person's ability in the game is not something that is good or bad.. it just is and more likely than not, its completely dependant on how much time the person has played the game. Hopefully after reading this, everyone can see how foolish it is for anyone to say that I 'accused the OP of looking for an easy button', or that I said "noob how dare you even wonder about end game'. I'm sure one day in the far future everyone will realize that in truth, I was the only one who was actually HELPING the original poster stay afloat in a sea of extremely BAD responses.

[cdemeritt]

Wow... I wonder how bothered you'd be to find that my Wizard has a current 450 hp, with a projected ~535unbuffed, and possibly +600 hp buffed... good thing he is WF and self-heals.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You used the shroud, but I'm going to go one step further and use just healing for big fights and while questing in general.

If the healer has Meatslab of the HighCon clan targetted for mass heals/cures and is going to toss heals when his bar gets down 40% or so, that heal will bring everyone back up to full or close to full. No worries, can toss a heal/cure every once in a while and do other things if needed.

If the healer has Dexlicious of the LowCon clan targetted for mass heals/cures and is going to toss heals when his bar gets down to 40% or so, that heal will bring everyone back up to full. Problem is, the cleric is constantly tossing heals to keep Dexlicious alive and is overhealing the party. Wasting resources and their own time because they are forced to babysit the LowCon clan.

The higher con builds give the healers the flexibility to do other things than babysit.

I can agree with that as a general rule.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Hey dagger...if you were really the best wouldn't you have khopesh teeth instead? Or you more of an "motion of the ocean" type?

[NeutronStar]

I just want to shout a big 'thank you' to all the forum geniuses who have basically branded this into everyone's heads. If these players had ONE TENTH the ability of the amount of hit points they have, I think we'd really be onto something. As of now, there isn't one group I'm in with my bard that doesn't have 2-4 of these failed experiments running around looking for heals. I never fail to cringe after I wand hit myself and my hp goes up like half and I wand hit one of these pileons only to see their hp go up like a sliver. And they run around with this sliver of hit points until they die. Was I supposed to stand there and continue to hit them w/ the wand until they're full? Only so the next guy they run into can put em back at a sliver again? I just don't get it.

Wand healing? Really? REALLY??

:rolleyes:

[NeutronStar]

1) con is not a dumpstat.

2) healing amp is your friend.

3) fortification is not an option.

Yes

[Spoprockel]

Hey dagger...if you were really the best wouldn't you have khopesh teeth instead? Or you more of an "motion of the ocean" type?

Poor follower of the Khopesh, you just don't get it, do you? :D


Huh? I've been stomping all over khopesh users dps wise since day 1. Khopesh's are for the blind followers who make up so much of the population and don't know what they are doing.

I could explain it but why bother? Simple enough to say that a khopesh will crit on 1 in exactly FIVE swings. A scimitar will crit almost every other hit, and easily once in every 3 hits. Its nothing more than the vast ocean of blind following idiocy that makes up 80% of the games population that gives anyone the idea that a khopesh is better. Even if a khopesh is doing 3 times over a scim's double damage, its a testament that people know nothing about crit effects or damage for that matter. Its no overstatement to say that I will ALWAYS leave khopesh users in the dust in almost any situation.

Think about DR.... a scim crits almost every other hit, while a khopesh crits 1 time in 5. All those other 4 'base damage's reflect harmlessly off the DR, while my every other hit is putting a good 50-60 damage over the DR.

Khopesh users are fools.. its easy to spot the mindless followers.

[NeutronStar]

An interesting, if not predictable response. Let me enlighten you all. I'm not only right in this issue, I'm much better at the game then all of you. First of all no one mentioned what lvl this was and second of all, if my characters aren't a big sack of stinking hit points, then thats obviously not the way the game should be played. Whether you want to arrive at this conclusion now or next year or the year after that really doesn't concern me. I think for your sake, just accept that I am much better then all of you. I played the game long before the guildies who instructed you on how to build your characters.

Trust me I am well aware of your little approach to the game. Run around w/ your panties in a bunch worried about being 'one shotted'. That's why my monk started w/ a 6 con and ended with over 100 AC and soloes whatever he wants. Throughout his whole life of levling there was ONE time where he was disintegrated. I think that weighs in a little more then the portable bathroom that all of you carry around w/ you to keep your hit points full.

This particular instance is around lvl 6 and my serious wands hit for around 40-50. Even still if you want to heal the giant potato sacks that you've created then come and do it. As for my bard he is a warchanter who leads the way, and its only after I see that someone else managed to get aggro and is now about to die and after I start to think 'is he gonna heal himself or??" that I sometimes try to be nice and hit them w/ my wand. Now if I'm getting 90% of the kills and 1 wand hit brings me up a third to a half I have a hard time justifying 'getting over myself' to stand there for 1 minute and heal one of these 'tanks' that you've created with your forum hysterics. I don't even know what a 'tank' is in an rpg.... and lord knows I don't want to know.

No

[stoopid_cowboy]

After reading this thread I now know that my barb is totally gimp and I should delete IMMEDIATELY.

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/cowboy_g/beater-1.jpg


thank you for showing me the correct path. :D


yuda

[kernal42]

Really? Six pages in, and nobody's said it yet?

/popcorn

-Kernal

PS Nice find Spoprockel!

[Wizzly_Bear]

After reading this thread I now know that my barb is totally gimp and I should delete IMMEDIATELY.

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/cowboy_g/beater-1.jpg


thank you for showing me the correct path. :D


yuda

Well yeah actually you should. Your AC is entirely too high for a barbarian ;)

[Kaeldur]

OP should figure himself out... Says he never crafted any GS but pulls agro from the boss in any raid. Where's the connection? Then says he doesn't need any more larges because he has way too many having played for 5 years, not to mention the holier-than-thou-"ness".

Reeks of trolling...

[Asketes]

I'm just shy of 1200 hp on my Barb (only this much for raid tanking horoth and such), missing +7 con item and +4 tome (only have +3) and i think... hmm i can't remember, missing something else.

[kyleann]

One word: BYOH.

No one caught this?

I think that's 4 words


Also, not only does this thread have more trolls than any bridge in any goat's gruff; it also references Knitting blogs, Charlie Sheen, and e-peens...

I hereby nominate this thread for +5 patchwork quilt of touch of idiocy status.

[stoopid_cowboy]

I'm just shy of 1200 hp on my Barb

Screen shot or it didn't happen :D

yuda

Edit: But if you read the OP, having 1200hp's is a waste and you should reroll :D

[Asketes]

Screen shot or it didn't happen :D

yuda

meh

ahh yug pots that's what i'm missing! I knew i was forgetting something. haha

when you're tanking horoth meh on the attack speed and bring on the con

[mws2970]

No one caught this?

I think that's 4 words


Also, not only does this thread have more trolls than any bridge in any goat's gruff; it also references Knitting blogs, Charlie Sheen, and e-peens...

I hereby nominate this thread for +5 patchwork quilt of touch of idiocy status.

Actually, in that form it's 4 letters. :P

Personally, I caught it, but did not deem it worthy of comment given the OP.

[Wizzly_Bear]

I'm just shy of 1200 hp on my Barb (only this much for raid tanking horoth and such), missing +7 con item and +4 tome (only have +3) and i think... hmm i can't remember, missing something else.

1200hp is a LOT of mistakes... ;)

[Asketes]

1200hp is a LOT of mistakes... ;)

I do try

[Barthax]

After reading this thread I now know that my barb is totally gimp and I should delete IMMEDIATELY.

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af326/cowboy_g/beater-1.jpg


thank you for showing me the correct path. :D


yuda

Notice the 'convenient' mouseover window to cover the obvious 0% fortification :D

[Asketes]

Notice the 'convenient' mouseover window to cover the obvious 0% fortification :D

http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/yudabeater/

shows 100%

[stoopid_cowboy]

Notice the 'convenient' mouseover window to cover the obvious 0% fortification :D

Shhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! You weren't s'posed to notice that! :D


http://my.ddo.com/character/sarlona/yudabeater/

shows 100%

MyDDO is always inaccurate and should never be used when screening Yuda's! :D


yuda

[Asketes]

Shhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! You weren't s'posed to notice that! :D



MyDDO is always inaccurate and should never be used when screening Yuda's! :D


yuda

was trying to help ;)

not everyone knows the how my.ddo ..works?

[cpito]

Actually, if you strain your eyes, the 100% is visible through the mouse-over window! Sorry :D

[Asketes]

Actually, if you strain your eyes, the 100% is visible through the mouse-over window! Sorry :D

oooohhhh

[The_Mighty_Cube]

Alas, poor thread, I knew it well.