Hammer of Justice (S/B) U9

[Valindria]

With the proposed changes to some of the skills for U9 I have been theorycrafting some S/B style paladins. I am not interested in DoS paladins and I have been looking at HotD.

The original idea was a high survivable paladin. It would be less DPS than someone purely focused but should still be decent. The idea was to use Warhammer + Shield. I am assuming shields could crit and icrit improves the chance. I was thinking of my current healing amp paladin (Valtieri in sig) when I did it. Should provide decent DR, Healing Amp, and self heals. Skills might not be full specced but has full ranks of intim and HotD 3. I wanted to keep monk because I have a 10/20 healing amp robe and as far as I know you can still evade with a shield on. Consider dropping Str a few points to up Dex. It should be possible to drop quicken and empower heal and keep this as a pure paladin.

The original idea has quicken + empower heal for fast hard self heals. Healing amp will be 30% paladin 20% human 10%/20% armor 30% gs. It's not the 4x incoming that Valtieri had but it should be 2x incoming (1.3 x 1.2 x1.1 x 1.2 = 2.05) with just enhancements and DT armor.

With 2x incoming heals, quickened empowered heals, 25% physical DR this toon should be survivable. Not sure if damage will be enough but hopefully with all things considered does enough damage to keep aggro. Some +threat geat might be needed to help achive this. Stats could be changed to be more like idea #2 to help with evasion and AC. Though I don't think AC will ever be high enough to matter.

Here was the original theory idea:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Hammer of Justice
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Monk)
Hit Points: 338
Spell Points: 205
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 15
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 18 26
Dexterity 8 10
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 16 20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance -1 0
Bluff 3 5
Concentration 6 13
Diplomacy 3 5
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 5
Heal -1 0
Hide -1 0
Intimidate 7 20
Jump 4 8
Listen -1 0
Move Silently -1 0
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot -1 0
Swim 4 8
Tumble n/a 1
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
Feat: (Selected) Tower Shield Proficiency


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning III
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning III




- Improved Shield Bash now grants a 20% chance to make a secondary shield bash while attacking with a melee weapon.
- Shield Mastery's feat benefit has been changed to, "You are now skilled with the use of a shield, and your physical damage vulnerability is decreased by 10% when using a buckler or small shield, 15% when using a large shield, or 20% when using a tower shield."
- Improved Shield Mastery's feat has been changed to, "You are exceptionally skilled with the use of a shield, and your physical damage vulnerability is decreased by an additional 5% when using a shield, for a total of 15% when using a buckler or small shield, 20% when using a large shield, or 25% when using a tower shield."



Variations

Idea #2

Basically HotD 3 is expensive so this idea is pretty much the same (starting stats of 16, 14, 14, 8, 8,16) except takes human healing amp 3 and does not take HotD III. It will end up with the same HA, points spread differently, at the cost of basically the undead vorp part of HotD III. It gets better intim with intim class skill and 30% better self heals with devotion. I'd probably go with something closer to this and only spec to above when the Mabar comes back.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0

Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II




Other Ideas:
- Drop some of the meta magic feats to fit in stunning blow. Since the focus is in warhammers it would be easy to have a +10 stunner.
- Fighter Splash - Gain Towershield for free, + the normal fighter splash benefits.

One last note. This build takes towershield so in theory could be specced to DoS by resetting enhancements.

[Valindria]

The other line of theorycrafting I was working with was using Bastard Swords or Dwarven Axes + shield. I played with Human and Half elf ideas. This was the final idea I had for this S/B style of thinking. Dwarf using DA with full THF feats and some shield feats. Should have more damage than above due to DA, full GB, Dwarf race enahancements. Only took HotD 2 to fit other things in.



Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Hammer of justice DWF
Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Monk)
Hit Points: 378
Spell Points: 205
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 17
Will: 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 14 16
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 14 18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 2 9
Bluff 2 4
Concentration 3 17
Diplomacy 2 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 2 4
Heal -1 0
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 6 31
Jump 3 6
Listen -1 0
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 2
Spot -1 0
Swim 3 6
Tumble n/a 4
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Tower Shield Proficiency


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Shield Mastery II
Enhancement: Dwarven Shield Mastery III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II

[Asketes]

can you still use evasion with shields? looked on the wiki, guess so.


hmm make sure you have light armor or cloth on though :)

[Valindria]

can you still use evasion with shields? looked on the wiki, guess so.


hmm make sure you have light armor or cloth on though :)

I thought so but wasn't 100%. Honestly a 18/2 Paladin/Fighter might be better than the monk version in #1. The main reason of monk is I already have my DT robe as 10% H, 20%HA, 40% potency, liked the idea of evasion, and I have some decent hand wraps already.

[Asketes]

i've never liked the idea of a build that is not primarily monk using wraps, the base damage seems soo low! you still get evasion without being centered (pretty sure) just not the monk stances or wisdom to ac (which I think is a shield bonus now?)

[unbongwah]

I should probably find a Lami thread to ask this, but: exactly how does the "reduced damage vulnerability" from Shield Mastery work? Does it slice a flat 10/15/20% off all incoming physical dmg?

[Valindria]

i've never liked the idea of a build that is not primarily monk using wraps, the base damage seems soo low! you still get evasion without being centered (pretty sure) just not the monk stances or wisdom to ac (which I think is a shield bonus now?)

Yeah damage is not going to be amazing by any means. The builds above might not be that great but it's an attempt to use some of the changed feats. The 18/2 with fighter and BS/DA might be a better choice.


I should probably find a Lami thread to ask this, but: exactly how does the "reduced damage vulnerability" from Shield Mastery work? Does it slice a flat 10/15/20% off all incoming physical dmg?

I think so.

Personally untested, but from what I have read it is like Firestorm Greaves with fire damage. The physical damage is reduced by a %. What I do not know is if it is 1st or 2nd.

From what I remember with Firestorm greaves it reduces the damage 1st, then FR, (then cold shield). I am guessing it is a similar mechanic but testing is needed.

[unbongwah]

Another question: how does Shield Mastery and DR interact? Do they stack or does only the highest apply?

[elraido]

Another question: how does Shield Mastery and DR interact? Do they stack or does only the highest apply?

Reread what he said about firestorm greeves. It works the same. You take the DR off the top (like a resist), then you take a % of the total damage done and then subtract that.

[Valindria]

Pure Paladin Version with only HotD 2. It drops Quicken and Empower heals and evasion but gains more dps (capstone + DS 3). Also has the advantage of making your mithreal tower shields bypass good and silver dr.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Hammer of Justice 20 Paladin
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Paladin)
Hit Points: 352
Spell Points: 235
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 15
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 14 16
Constitution 14 16
Intelligence 8 10
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 16 19

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 2 3
Bluff 3 4
Concentration 6 12
Diplomacy 3 4
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 3 4
Heal -1 0
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 7 27
Jump 3 7
Listen -1 0
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 0
Search -1 0
Spot -1 0
Swim 3 7
Tumble n/a 3.5
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
Feat: (Selected) Tower Shield Proficiency


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II

[Ironforge_Clan]

Reread what he said about firestorm greeves. It works the same. You take the DR off the top (like a resist), then you take a % of the total damage done and then subtract that.

From what I've read and tested the % comes off the top in this case and then the DR is subtracted.

[chodelord]

imo if you start with 8 dex you might as well not have evasion, your final reflex isn't going to be that good

also in your build you don't have extend which means casting divine power, zeal, and probably angelskin every 2 minutes in addition to the resistance load + stalwart pact you will start with

that means you might have maybe 2-3 empowered quickened heals to cast between shrines, which isn't bad just something to take into account

at the very least I would give up exalted smite 4 and maybe 3 and put those points into your save aura, that is the cheapest way to improve your reflex and if you math it out they don't add very much at all to your damage output

[Valindria]

imo if you start with 8 dex you might as well not have evasion, your final reflex isn't going to be that good

also in your build you don't have extend which means casting divine power, zeal, and probably angelskin every 2 minutes in addition to the resistance load + stalwart pact you will start with

that means you might have maybe 2-3 empowered quickened heals to cast between shrines, which isn't bad just something to take into account

at the very least I would give up exalted smite 4 and maybe 3 and put those points into your save aura, that is the cheapest way to improve your reflex and if you math it out they don't add very much at all to your damage output

Thanks for the feedback.

Yeah I did notice that later. I have adjusted in other versions (starting stats of 16, 14, 14, 8, 8,16). I am not sure why I left it at 8 in the OP.

I have extend at level 15 for all versions except the dwarf who could go 18/2 Paladin Fighter and take it instead of Tower Shield.

Quicken + Empower will be situational and more likely in areas where I am going to be taking a lot of damage and have to take care of myself. Hopefully with everything beating on me conc op, torc(if I could get one), and cheaper spell point heals will keep me going. I also happen to have a bauble on my toon.

Coming from Valtieri I would not want to give up any more damage than I would have to. His dps is pretty bad all things considered. I do see what you are saying since I have a limited number of smites, it would be an area to skim from.