Let's go for it.

[sacredguyver]

Starting out:
I'm on my way to unlocking the Favored Soul class with favor. I'd really like to make a build using Favored Souls, but I'm not fond (to put it lightly) of having to heal others. I often do good to keep myself alive, so having to keep an eye on others is almost completely out of the question. After playing a Monk to level 20, a Wizard to level 20, a Cleric to level 13 (deleted to make room for the level 10 Barbarian), a Barbarian to level 10, and a Wiz/Rogue to level 12 (deleted to make room for the level 20 Wizard), I find that I really like to hit things.

All this means is that I want to make a melee-focused Favored Soul that can watch out for itself and to pinch-heal when the main healer is otherwise distracted (such as raising the main healer when things go bad so they can get back to healing the others). One of the better ways I found to limit my healing ability is to restrict the number of Favored Soul levels I take.

After looking at the class description and details on both the DDO Compendium and DDO Wiki (I check both to keep my facts straight), I figured that level 12 would be the best place to stop taking Favored Soul levels. By level 12 I have 2 of the 3 Energy Resistance feats, the (next to) last tier of the Deity feats (last tier being the Damage Reduction) and a single level 6 Divine spell. Level 12 will also allow me to take the new Angel of Vengeance Prestige Enhancement when it releases in Update 9.

My concern is, after level 12, what would be be best way to multi-class in order to increase my melee DPS? Please note that I am in no way looking to be top-tier DPS, standing along side the well-built and geared Barbarians who can kill mobs by looking at them, but I am wanting to not get a funny look thrown at me when I come in swinging with a big ol' sword or two.

I originally considered a Favored Soul 12/Paladin 6/Rogue 2 build, as the 6 Paladin levels grant better Weapon and Armor proficiencies, Fear and Disease Immunity, Lay on Hands, and Smites while the 2 Rogue levels grant Evasion and more skill points. With this version, I was going to take both tiers of the Angel of Vengeance FvS PrE and the first tier of the Paladin's Hunter of the Dead PrE (I first looked at Knight of the Chalice, but AoV and KotC both have an SP Enhancement requirement. I can take one or the other, but not both).

Next, I considered a Favored Soul 12/Paladin 6/Fighter 2 build. It wouldn't have Evasion or high skills with this version, but I would have a couple of better enhancements available to me (Fighter Haste Boost I and Fighter Strength I come to mind) and a couple of extra feats. This version would only take the Angel of Vengeance PrE and use the AP from the Hunter of the Dead PrE elsewhere.

Is there another class that I could take 6 levels of that would work better than Paladin?
I thought about using 6 Ranger levels as doing so would give me the first two feats in the Two Weapon Fighting line for free and allow me to select other feats in their place. If done right, I could also qualify for the first tier of the Ranger's Tempest PrE. There would also be more skill points available. For some reason, I just couldn't find myself wanting to use 6 levels of Ranger.

Alternatively, the option of taking 6 levels in Fighter and gaining the first tier of the Kensei PrE was proposed. Taking 6 levels of Fighter would grant me 4 feats, only 1 of which would be needed to qualify for the Kensei PrE (a far cry from the 3 feats needed for a Tempest I). Skill points would still be tight.

If I changed the "middle" class to something other than Paladin, that would leave the minor class to tinker with. I could keep 2 Rogue levels or dump them for another option.

So beyond a 12/6/2 build, what other options would there be?
I had other thoughts and discussions about only using 2 classes in this build, either by going Favored Soul 12/Other 8, Favored Soul 14/Other 6 or Favored Soul 18/Other 2.

I dismissed the "FvS 12/Other 8" option because for Paladin and Ranger, levels 7 and 8 are "dead" levels. I gain no real benefit beyond increased BAB, Saves and HP (the Ranger's Improved Wild Empathy ability granted at level 7 is laughable to me). Fighter level 8 is another free feat which could be put to good use.

Building a FvS 14/Other 6 character felt underwhelming. If I was going to take 14 levels in Favored Soul, I may as well go to 15, pick up a third Energy Resistance feat and the Resurrection spell. 5 levels in one other class isn't going to get me much, especially when considering potential Prestige Enhancement options.

A FvS 18/Other 2 build still feels like, and will most likely be driven to, a healer. I predict many /tells from people asking such a character to "come heal XXXXX for us" despite being specially made for melee (I'm looking at the FvS 18/Monk 2 builds currently available). As stated at the beginning, healing is not my cup of tea (I prefer Kool-Aid).

With the exception of my Barbarian, which is a Warforged, and the now-deleted Wiz/Rogue, which was Drow, all my characters have been Human. While other races may work better mechanically speaking, I would like to stick with being Human for this build (a friend tried to convince me of going Elf with this character and taking the Valenar enhancements for the bonus to Scimitar and Falchion damage).


Aside from comments about my general lack of sanity for attempting this build, what are some other ways to make an effective melee-focused Favored Soul with no more than 12 levels of Favored Soul and a mix of other classes? I already have two ideas done in the Character Planner and am about to work on a third (FvS 12/Ftr 6/Rog 2) just to see what I can do.

[Seamonkeysix]

You could take 8 monk. Good synergy with the wisdom and at level 8, your unarmed DPS goes to 1d10. You get evasion, the martial arts feats, finishers, ect...

You could go half-elf and get the rogue dilly for some extra DPS, and human versatility...which rocks.

[voodoogroves]

Ok ... So ... A deep splash is not necessary. Repeat after me...


MASS HEALS ON ME


The 18/2 splits are great for twf, pre 20s trend to manage thf better. Warforged being specifically suited to swinging a greatsword, though humans, half elves, dwarves and half orcs have workable thf possibilities.

[Habreno]

Is FVS12/Monk6/Bard2 possible? Both minor classes would take advantage of your two main focused skills for casting (I assume you will cast *something* and not let the pretty blue bar go to waste) but wasn't sure what you were thinking for stats?

I assume you will have 32 point builds by then, correct?

Did you have any particular RACE you wanted to play or would it be "best-for-the-build" for races?



If the Monk is not possible... hmmm...

FVS12/Barb6/xxx2 doesn't sound good: Aside from possible alignment conflicts you also have being enraged and casting to deal with; not sure if you want that possible drawback. If you don't mind it, I might suggest a rather odd FVS12/Barb6/Ftr2 or FVS12/Barb6/Paladin2 (once again, not sure of possible alignment conflicts making either or both impossible to do) or FVS12/Barb6/Ranger,Bard2. Still not sure about alignment conflicts but it might really end up being a 12/8 or a 14/6 if you go FVS/Barb; if neither other fighting class is possible then that leaves not much to go with.


Not quite sure what to do with this one....

[voodoogroves]

If you are dead set on at most 12 fvs though, the other split is largelsy based on what else you want to do.

Tactics ... fighter 6 and monk or rogue or barb 2
Monkish ... monk 6 fighter or pal 2 ... or monk 8

The 16/2/2 splits are not popular but workable (look up the golden roach). Also look for bendover's build ... I think it is a 12/6/2

But I do think you should give a fvs that gets wings a try.

[Seamonkeysix]

Ok ... So ... A deep splash is not necessary. Repeat after me...


MASS HEALS ON ME


The 18/2 splits are great for twf, pre 20s trend to manage thf better. Warforged being specifically suited to swinging a greatsword, though humans, half elves, dwarves and half orcs have workable thf possibilities.

I have a 20 WF FvS. I love that toon. Repectable DPS and da*n near unkillable. I have to admit, however, people do expect me to heal. If the OP really hates people expecting him to heal, the 12/FvS split may work for him.

As for me, I do exactly what you are suggesting. I tell the party "Mass heals on me" and swing away.

[voodoogroves]

And fyi monk must be lawful, bard and barb nonlawful

[sacredguyver]

You could take 8 monk. Good synergy with the wisdom and at level 8, your unarmed DPS goes to 1d10. You get evasion, the martial arts feats, finishers, ect...
Thanks for mentioning this as I forgot to in my initial post.

Doing 6 or 8 levels of Monk would be appealing, especially since I will be able to take either Shintao I or Ninja Spy I, however I already have a level 20 Monk and WIS is a dump stat in the two builds I have already planned out. I'm wanting to use weapons instead of handwraps in this build, otherwise I would give Monk more consideration.

Currently, the stats I have used in the Character Planner are:
STR 16
DEX 15
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 14

I will be using a full set of +2 tomes upon reaching level 7 with this character and all attribute points given at level up will be used in STR (it is a melee build after all). With the +2 tome in DEX I will be sure to qualify for Greater Two Weapon Fighting and with the +2 Tome in CHA I will be able to cast my single level 6 spell when I get it.

@voodoogroves post 1: I cover this in the first paragraph in my original post.

@Habreno: I do have 32 point builds and am set on being Human (why mess with a good thing?). SP will mostly be used for buffs, either self-buffing or helping the primary caster buff others so they have more SP for other things. If I find a place for them, I may also carry the alignment-based damage spells such as Chaos Hammer and Order's Wrath.

Also, thanks for mentioning alignment. Using the Paladin option, I will be locked into Lawful Good, even before I actually take Paladin Levels. Paladin also locks out using Barbarian levels because Barbarians must be any non-Lawful. If I used something other than Paladin, say FvS 12/Ftr 6/Rog 2, I could go with True Neutral and may be able to work up enough UMD to bypass alignment restrictions on weapons and armor.

@voodoogroves post 2: I'll be sure to look up the Golden Roach. FvS 16 would get me the third Energy Resistance feat as well as a single level 7 spell (Resurrection comes to mind).

@Seamonkeysix post 2: It's not that I absolutely hate healing others (I'll often use my Monk's Healing Ki finisher to top-off people or get those that are incapacitated back up), and I know that playing a healer can be rather demanding, it's the {"We need a healer for this quest/raid, get a Cleric or Favored Soul to join us." *FvS joins group* "Hey guys, just so you know, I'm melee-specced." "That's fine, but you better heal us."} mindset that's rather prevalent in the game.

[pie2655]

I really want to play FVS also but hate being a full healer. May have to keep up with this thread and see what yall come up with. :D

[Seamonkeysix]

It would be feat intensive, but you could go:

12/6/2 Fvs/Ranger/Monk and go arcane archer for burst DPS and (again) have decent synergy.

6 Ranger gives you access to arcane archer. If you go Half-elf, you get rogue dilly, human versatility. You also get the full arcane archer line with helf. The 2 monk levels get you 2 feats, and evasion.

You would need mental toughness, weapon focus ranged, precise shot and improved precise shot to make the arcane archer work. But you get 3 freebies with the half elf, and 2 monk that can go towards your DPS skills. I don't have a planner in front of me, but with the ranger, you are getting TWF, and ITWF for free. So you really only need to take GTWF there.

Seems like you have room for power attack, improved crit, toughness coming from the helf and monk. Then weapon focus ranged, precise shot, improved precise shot and some metamagics for you other feats.

You could play around with it a bit, but the manyshot + slayer arrows combo for burst DPS is nice, and the other 1 min and 40 seconds, you should have enough TWF DPS and healing to keep on trucking.

Undying Court (elf or helf only) FvS lines gets you scimitar bonuses, which might be the way to go with this build.

Lots of possibilities. Lots to explore. At least it wouldn't be very similar to monk...and nobody would expect you to be a healer. You could spot heal in a pinch, but you would be a support toon with some specializations. You could also solo easily...which is nice at times.

[voodoogroves]

K the TWF distinction helps. Knowing that 12 is a design constraint, that gives us some options to narrow things down.

Note on dumping WIS ... base 8 + 2 tome + 6 con-opp item + 2 enhancements = 18


FVS 12 / Fighter or Ranger 6 / Monk 2
- Scimitars with racial lines and FVS boosts on an Elf; could go Whirling Steel on a Sov. Host (human)
- Benefits from more WIS though, so you may not want to consider this
- Tempest 1 or Kensai 1

FVS 12 / Monk 6 / Fighter 2
- Shortswords, Ninja Spy 1 or Longswords w/ Sov. Host
- Shortswords are weaker weapons; you'll be centered using them and will have to work in monk strikes to make up DPS difference
- WIS can be a dump stat; you're not really using it
- Drow could fit w/ racial boosts to shortswords

Other mixes would take even less advantage of the synergies w/ racial / FVS weapons. Those are really going to be pushing it to consider FVS instead of Cleric. The two above have some mutual benefit from each side.

[voodoogroves]

@Seamonkeysix post 2: It's not that I absolutely hate healing others (I'll often use my Monk's Healing Ki finisher to top-off people or get those that are incapacitated back up), and I know that playing a healer can be rather demanding, it's the {"We need a healer for this quest/raid, get a Cleric or Favored Soul to join us." *FvS joins group* "Hey guys, just so you know, I'm melee-specced." "That's fine, but you better heal us."} mindset that's rather prevalent in the game.

I have a pure FVS 20 who is built for both melee DPS and raid healing. When I show up to the VoD or HoX or Shroud in the Marilith Chain carrying the greataxe they ALWAYS ask "um ... can you heal or are you DPS ... or one of those that can do both?"

Maybe that's my server, but it's been pleasant. I'm not even anonymous. The last shroud I ran our dedicated healer cleric bit it in part 4 to a meteor swarm and the bard and I just kept plugging away ... both of us in the melee and both of us cycling mass cures.






Ok silly stories aside, if you want a DPS build that uses FVS in the mix somewhere and are flexible on "human" consider this ... I don't take credit for this, this is all Barmix ... Warforged FVS 6 / Fighter 12 / Barbarian 2. Kensai + Rage + Bladesworn Transformation = big STR boost.

Also, check Intervention (this is Bendover's build I mentioned above) for a guard-happy self-healing melee DPS (FVS 12 / Ranger 6 / Fighter 2)
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=278819

[sacredguyver]

@Seamonkeysix: I have neither Half-Elves nor Half-Orcs available to me. While an Arcane Archer would certainly be possible, even more so if I used an Elf for this build, ranged combat isn't that appealing to me.

@voodoogroves: Thanks for mentioning the Golden Roach build and linking to Bendover's Intervention build.

After reading (and replying to) everyone's comments in this thread and reading over the above two builds, I see that while being quite gear-dependent (What build isn't?), I may be capable of being an effective (though not perfect) intimi-tank. AC may be questionable when considering the possibility, but my healing ability should be able to quickly mitigate the damage I take. Such thoughts have me considering a FvS 12/Ftr 6/Pal 2 with both tiers of Angel of Vengeance and Kensei I. The 2 levels of Paladin will grant me Lay on Hands and Divine Grace for saves, and while a third level would get me the Disease and Fear immunity that originally attracted me to using Paladin levels, I'm willing to give up those abilities for Kensei I and the (slightly more) DPS it would bring. Skill points on such a build may be sufficient for getting full Concentration and Intimidate, though not much else (especially not UMD).

I'll plug the FvS 12/Ftr 6/Pal 2 version in the Character Planner and post it in this thread shortly. I need to go grab version 3.8.1 so I don't miss anything.

[sacredguyver]

....And the level progression is confusing me.

So far, I have four different ways I could go about this:
Version 1:
1 Paladin
2-7 Fighter
8-12 Favored Soul
13 Paladin
14-20 Favored SoulVersion 2:
1 Paladin
2-4 Favored Soul
5-8 Fighter
9-15 Favored Soul
16-17 Fighter
18-19 Favored Soul
20 PaladinVersion 3:
1-3 Fighter
4-8 Favored Soul
9-10 Fighter
11-15 Favored Soul
16 Fighter
17 Paladin
18-19 Favored Soul
20 PaladinVersion 4:
1-5 Favored Soul
6 Paladin
7-12 Fighter
13-19 Favored Soul
20 PaladinI'm trying to keep things together in "blocks," with all the Fighter levels kept together to get Kensei I sooner and the first 5 Favored Soul levels in a block (first 5 because it covers the first two Deity feats and first Energy Resistance feat). The Paladin levels I would like to keep in a block simply because of the bonus to saves from Divine Might, however, I notice that splitting up the Paladin levels would be more beneficial when it comes to maximizing skill point expenditures. I can split the Paladin levels up essentially anywhere because it shares a class skill with both Favored Souls (Concentration) and Fighters (Intimidate).

I know that with a +2 INT tome as soon as I hit level 7 would give me one more skill point beginning at level 8, so maybe I'm just over-thinking this. All three classes will gain 3 skill points a level beginning at level 8 (starting with a base of 10 and taking the +2 INT tome at level 7), so even with the Favored Soul levels I should be able to put 1 point into both Concentration and Intimidate at each level.

I'll start with Version 1 of the level progression I posted above and see how it goes.

[sacredguyver]

My first attempt at making a Favored Soul 12/Fighter 6/Paladin 2 build work:

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(12 Favored Soul \ 6 Fighter \ 2 Paladin)
Hit Points: 348
Spell Points: 1085
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 25
Reflex: 19
Will: 21

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23 24
Dexterity 15 17 17
Constitution 14 16 17
Intelligence 10 12 12
Wisdom 8 10 10
Charisma 14 16 20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 2 3 3
Bluff 2 5 6
Concentration 6 26 27
Diplomacy 2 5 6
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 4 14 14
Heal -1 0 0
Hide 2 3 3
Intimidate 6 28 31
Jump 3 7 7
Listen -1 0 0
Move Silently 2 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 0 1 1
Search 0 1 1
Spot -1 0 0
Swim 3 7 7
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 8 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Silver Flame


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 11 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Acid
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 14 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 17 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 19 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)

Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Silver Flame Exorcism
Enhancement: Follower of the Silver Flame
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness IVJust a couple things to note:
*Taking the Force of Personality feat at level 6 is essentially a place-holder until I can find something better. At first, I thought of getting the Least Dragonmark of Passage at level 3 and the Lesser Dragonmark of Passage at level 6 for a Dimension Door clicky. I decided to scrap that idea to pick up Exotic Weapon Proficiency Khopesh at level 3 and throw in Force of Personality as a temporary solution (although it doesn't hurt my saves at all). Now, while I am able to use Khopeshes with no penalty, I don't see myself using them often as I like the effects that the Brigand's Cutlass has on it, including the bonus to Intimidate and how it gains Vorpal in later upgrades.

*If you plug this build into the Character Planner, you'll notice that on the list of enhancements there is 6 extra AP available. That was done to ensure that I could afford the Angel of Vengeance PrE. The Angel of Vengeance PrE is also the reasons why I took the Maximize Spell feat and the Silver Flame faith enhancements, otherwise I would have taken another feat (Extend comes to mind as I'll be throwing a few buffs) and spent the AP from the Silver Flame faith elsewhere (such as on Fighter Strength II).

Other than the two points above, I like how this build looks since I was easily able to fit in the abilities I wanted and keep both my Concentration and Intimidate scores high. Thoughts?

[voodoogroves]

I haven't run the numbers but you should be able to hit the lower-level raid boss targets on intimidate with a build like this ... no elite Hound, but probably DQ, Orthons in VoD possibly Sully as well on N/H.

Before sticking w/ the build, see how the intimidate changes work. You may be able to be an effective hate tank as well, esp. on a Paladin 6 build.

Leveling-wise, I tend to cram in divine to 11/12 (blade barrier) as fast as humanly possible; that said, I suspect you won't have BB and only Heal (since you'll only get 1 6th level spell), so pushing it out until later should be fine.

[voodoogroves]

Also, in terms of Fighter 6 / Paladin 2 or the reverse, the DPS sustained may be in favor of the Kensai, but you may find better burst capabilties w/ Paladin.

Divine Might 1 - +2 sacred damage
Divine Righteousness - burst hate generation
Divine Sacrifice - extra light damage and crit multiplier increase
Exalted Smite / Extra smite

I suspect the difference is a playstyle choice; no idea if you like the more clickie builds (Paladin, Monk) or more sustained (Barb, etc.)

[unbongwah]

Here's a build I did a while ago: elf FvS 12 / paladin 6 / monk 2. Could also be adapted to HE; lose racial scimitar bonuses, gain dilly (probably rogue for SA), human bonuses, etc.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Female
(6 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 12 Favored Soul)
Hit Points: 319
Spell Points: 978
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 21
Will: 17

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 24
Dexterity 16 18
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 14 16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 20

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting (swap for Power Attack at higher levels)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Undying Court


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Favored Soul)


Level 8 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Favored Soul)


Level 11 (Favored Soul)


Level 12 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Favored Soul)


Level 14 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance II
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Undying Call
Enhancement: Follower of the Undying Court
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wisdom I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wisdom II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I

[sacredguyver]

Also, in terms of Fighter 6 / Paladin 2 or the reverse, the DPS sustained may be in favor of the Kensai, but you may find better burst capabilties w/ Paladin.

Divine Might 1 - +2 sacred damage
Divine Righteousness - burst hate generation
Divine Sacrifice - extra light damage and crit multiplier increase
Exalted Smite / Extra smite

I suspect the difference is a playstyle choice; no idea if you like the more clickie builds (Paladin, Monk) or more sustained (Barb, etc.)
The Paladin 6/Fighter 2 version I came up with looks like:


Level 20 Lawful Good Human Female
(12 Favored Soul \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Fighter)
Hit Points: 348
Spell Points: 1110
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 26
Reflex: 20
Will: 22

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23 24
Dexterity 15 17 17
Constitution 14 16 17
Intelligence 10 12 12
Wisdom 8 10 10
Charisma 14 16 20

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 2 3 3
Bluff 2 5 5
Concentration 4 26 26
Diplomacy 2 5 5
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 2 14 14
Heal -1 0 0
Hide 2 3 3
Intimidate 6 28 28
Jump 7 11 11
Listen -1 0 0
Move Silently 2 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 0 1 1
Search 0 1 1
Spot -1 0 0
Swim 3 7 7
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Feat: (Diety) Favored by the Silver Flame


Level 3 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 5 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 6 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Acid
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 14 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 15 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 16 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 17 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 18 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Favored Soul)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)


Level 20 (Favored Soul)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Haggle (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)

Enhancement: Favored Soul Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Silver Flame Exorcism
Enhancement: Follower of the Silver Flame
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Charisma III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness III
Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery IAttributes, feats, skills, and enhancements are essentially the same as with the Fighter 6/Paladin 2 version. Obvious exceptions are the lack of the Kensei I Prestige Enhancement and a few more Paladin enhancements. The Extra Lay on Hands I enhancement was taken to help healing when I'm low on SP, though that shouldn't be a problem unless I get spell-happy and burn through it all. I also added Paladin Extra Turning I because the Paladin burst enhancements you mention consume a use of Turn Undead to work, so naturally more Turn Undead uses means more burst uses.

As for the "Burst vs Sustained DPS" comment, I'm actually split between the two. On my Monk, I like having the Ki strikes and such clickies but often only use them only on bosses or other high HP mobs (with the exception of the Fists of Light/Curse of Healing strike and Healing Ki finisher to keep my HP up). The rest of the time I'm swinging away like on my Barbarian, who I like because it's (for me) "choose the best weapon at hand and get to killing." Considering those points, the sustainable DPS of the Fighter 6/Paladin 2 may suit me better than the Paladin 6/Fighter 2. However the Paladin 6/Fighter 2 build would help me tank better because I won't just have Intimidate to use, but can also hate-tank better with Divine Righteousness and Divine Sacrifice.

[voodoogroves]

Both should work, you're really looking at playstyle now.

This kind of build benefits greatly from
- DR
- Torc / ConOp
- Guards

That's what Bendover does w/ Intervention ... he runs with a bazillion guards, grabs aggro and heals through the pain.

[sacredguyver]

Both should work, you're really looking at playstyle now.

This kind of build benefits greatly from
- DR
- Torc / ConOp
- Guards

That's what Bendover does w/ Intervention ... he runs with a bazillion guards, grabs aggro and heals through the pain.
Personally, I try to keep my play-style mutable because if I try to make a build suited to a particular style of play, then I feel I may miss something by not trying others. That's why I deleted my Wiz/Rogue build for a pure Wizard. I loved the casting part of the Wiz/Rogue and while the trap skills and such were nice to have, I didn't really like using them.

I'll have to find a few different sources of DR since I won't be getting it from the Favored Soul class. If I find a Torc, it'll go to my Wizard first, who is in need of better gear at the moment. I noticed Bendover's Intervention build used Greensteel for many of the guard. While I'm not opposed to the idea, I don't like to spend so much time in a single quest for ingredients (if I did, I probably would have over 40 Shroud completions on my Monk, who's currently only at 17). I will most likely be taking advantage of the new crafting system for a good bit of my gear, before I get to the levels where I will need to start farming for named item because they would simply be superior.

[der_kluge]

Personally, I think an Elven FvS6/Rgr12(tempest)/??2 would be an awesome build. If you went FvS8, you'd get 4th level spells (FoM, anyone?), which would be great for some self-buffs. FoM, protection from energy, energy resist, nightshield, aid, divine power, etc.

Would be fairly stat intensive, though. You'd need a +charisma item, but you could leave the initial score fairly low.

I TR'd my cleric into an Elven FvS and took the undying line for scimitars, and expanded that into OTWF to dual-wield scimitars. I'm pretty scary in my own right, but couple that with the Tempest line, and you've got something there.

Best thing would be your icon - would show up as Ranger. People wouldn't expect you to heal, but you could probably help in that regard. Especially if you had some nice ardor items, and or devotion gear, and didn't completely neglect the healing enhancements.

[voodoogroves]

Personally, I try to keep my play-style mutable because if I try to make a build suited to a particular style of play, then I feel I may miss something by not trying others. That's why I deleted my Wiz/Rogue build for a pure Wizard. I loved the casting part of the Wiz/Rogue and while the trap skills and such were nice to have, I didn't really like using them.

I did the same. No more wiz-rogues for me. All either LR'd or deleted.



I'll have to find a few different sources of DR since I won't be getting it from the Favored Soul class. [/quest]
Marilith Chain is a solid choice and what I'd shoot for on non-evasion TWF.
[quote]If I find a Torc, it'll go to my Wizard first, who is in need of better gear at the moment. I noticed Bendover's Intervention build used Greensteel for many of the guard. While I'm not opposed to the idea, I don't like to spend so much time in a single quest for ingredients (if I did, I probably would have over 40 Shroud completions on my Monk, who's currently only at 17). I will most likely be taking advantage of the new crafting system for a good bit of my gear, before I get to the levels where I will need to start farming for named item because they would simply be superior.

Torc binds to character; if you get it it'll stay on who pulls it.

Demon Queen also drops the Chaosblade. I'd suggest that's probably your highest priority to farm, if any.

[sacredguyver]

Would be fairly stat intensive, though. You'd need a +charisma item, but you could leave the initial score fairly low.
I must admit this is something I'm still unfamiliar with. Suppose I left CHA at 8, took a +2 CHA tome, and kept the 4 CHA enhancements. That would give me a CHA of 14, high enough for 4th level spells. If I equipped a +6 CHA item, that would give me a CHA of 20. Would that still allow me to cast 6th level spells or does spellcasting ability depend on base/inherent ability scores like qualifying for feats? If I can get by with an item to increase the level of spells available to me, I can start with a lower CHA and put the points into something else.

With that, I could do 16/15/15/10/8/12. Using the +2 Tome and 4 enhancements, my CHA would still be 18 before items. Having CON at 15 instead of 14 would be a bit easier to increase for more HP at higher levels (just this change alone is enough to net me another 20 HP since my CON will end on an even number, before gear and exceptional bonuses).



Best thing would be your icon - would show up as Ranger. People wouldn't expect you to heal, but you could probably help in that regard. Especially if you had some nice ardor items, and or devotion gear, and didn't completely neglect the healing enhancements.
This I am also not as well-versed in as I should be. Does your class icon depend on the current level (so at level 5, it would show Fighter where as at level 13 it would show Paladin) or does it depend on the most levels in a single class you've taken (meaning at level 9 it would show Fighter after having 6 levels in that class, but would show Favored Soul beginning at level 15)?


@Voodoogroves: That Marilith Chain does look quite useful, even before becoming Epic. My only thoughts regarding armor at the moment is wearing Heavy Plate (preferably Mithral) and the Cavalry Plate from the event. I may pick up Dragontouched and slot in an Incite rune and Guard rune.

The Chaosblade is also an item of interest, especially if I can manage to upgrade it to Epic. In the mean time I'm wanting the Brigand's Cutlass, which a few of my guild-mates refer to as "Baby Chaosblades."

Since I do have Veteran Status available to me, I'm trying to decide whether I should stick with the Voice of the Master trinket all the way until level 20 as I've usually done or pick up one of the Greater trinkets from the event. The Greater Bold Trinket would help my DPS while the Greater Stalwart Trinket would help my survivability. Thoughts?

[voodoogroves]

I must admit this is something I'm still unfamiliar with. Suppose I left CHA at 8, took a +2 CHA tome, and kept the 4 CHA enhancements. That would give me a CHA of 14, high enough for 4th level spells. If I equipped a +6 CHA item, that would give me a CHA of 20. Would that still allow me to cast 6th level spells or does spellcasting ability depend on base/inherent ability scores like qualifying for feats? If I can get by with an item to increase the level of spells available to me, I can start with a lower CHA and put the points into something else.

Items work. If you have a +2 item you can start w/ a CHA of 9 and still cast spells.


This I am also not as well-versed in as I should be. Does your class icon depend on the current level (so at level 5, it would show Fighter where as at level 13 it would show Paladin) or does it depend on the most levels in a single class you've taken (meaning at level 9 it would show Fighter after having 6 levels in that class, but would show Favored Soul beginning at level 15)?
It shows as the class with the most levels. In case of a tie, it takes them in alphabetical order (so Bard 1 / Wizard 1 would display as a Bard) except for Monk and FVS which are at the end of the list as they were added later.


@Voodoogroves: That Marilith Chain does look quite useful, even before becoming Epic. My only thoughts regarding armor at the moment is wearing Heavy Plate (preferably Mithral) and the Cavalry Plate from the event. I may pick up Dragontouched and slot in an Incite rune and Guard rune.

Sure, multiple armors for multiple instances are good. It takes time to swap, but if you're REALLY switching gears between general solo-DPS and tanking, you have a few seconds.


The Chaosblade is also an item of interest, especially if I can manage to upgrade it to Epic. In the mean time I'm wanting the Brigand's Cutlass, which a few of my guild-mates refer to as "Baby Chaosblades."
Yep, should work well enough. I'm making some for my general use as we speak as well.


Since I do have Veteran Status available to me, I'm trying to decide whether I should stick with the Voice of the Master trinket all the way until level 20 as I've usually done or pick up one of the Greater trinkets from the event. The Greater Bold Trinket would help my DPS while the Greater Stalwart Trinket would help my survivability. Thoughts?
You may hear people, towards the end of a quest, say "Voices On!". What they are doing is running the quest w/ some more useful trinket on, then swapping to their Voice of the Master at completion time. This is what I do, swapping between Trinkets for whatever is more useful. Stalwart can be nice for an early-game Earthen guard (or late if you never replace it w/ greensteel or something else), Bold is better for general offensive DPS. I carry the Night Hag's one in undead-heavy areas since it stops mummy rot, but don't wear it very often.

[sacredguyver]

Items work. If you have a +2 item you can start w/ a CHA of 9 and still cast spells.
Okay, that's good to know. I was going to switch 16/15/15/10/8/12 so I could potentially have more HP, but the original scores of 16/15/14/10/8/14 would be better since I'm making use of Intimidate.

I may follow through on the multiple armors remark, so I could have a set for general use, higher DPS, and better tanking (Dragontouched Plate for a tank set and the Marilith Chain for DPS, at least).

Once I get in game, I'll start grinding out the Cove items and will probably just make the tier 3 epic items, not worrying about the lower level versions (because the various gems required) and getting the last 140 favor I need to unlock the Favored Soul class.

[jwdaniels]

Going to add my two cents to this conversation - I have both a cleric and a favored soul, and neither of them is a healer. Sure, both can heal (and both do) but there is so much more to each class that calling either class a healer is just wrong.

That said, if you group you will be expected to heal. However, if you can keep anyone from taking damage nobody will notice if you're not healing. I agree with the poster that referenced "Mass Heals on me," especially for something like Harry in the shroud. Generally, though, when you're playing a favored soul most people will realize that you bring far more to the table than just healing, and nobody will expect you to play a nanny healbot.

As a cleric, I spend far more time using destruction or banishment to kill things quickly at high levels than I do healing, and much of the healing is handled by radiant aura (if the melees are smart enough to stand close to me between fights, which most of them are).

[sacredguyver]

Going to add my two cents to this conversation - I have both a cleric and a favored soul, and neither of them is a healer. Sure, both can heal (and both do) but there is so much more to each class that calling either class a healer is just wrong.

That said, if you group you will be expected to heal. However, if you can keep anyone from taking damage nobody will notice if you're not healing. I agree with the poster that referenced "Mass Heals on me," especially for something like Harry in the shroud. Generally, though, when you're playing a favored soul most people will realize that you bring far more to the table than just healing, and nobody will expect you to play a nanny healbot.

As a cleric, I spend far more time using destruction or banishment to kill things quickly at high levels than I do healing, and much of the healing is handled by radiant aura (if the melees are smart enough to stand close to me between fights, which most of them are).
This may be a "your mileage may vary" moment. I understand that neither class is "just a healer" and that one of the biggest alternatives to healing is mitigating damage, either through useful buffs such as Resist Energy/Protection from Elements and Death Ward or simply killing things before they can hit back. One of my more prominent goals with this build is to increase the Favored Soul's melee ability by multi-classing with the restrictions of "Only 12 levels of Favored Soul," "melee," and "Human." With the input of Voodoogroves and others, I believe I have found a way to not only do so, but also make use of Intimidate-tanking and hate-tanking.

[Ilklr]

I have a pure FVS 20 who is built for both melee DPS and raid healing. When I show up to the VoD or HoX or Shroud in the Marilith Chain carrying the greataxe they ALWAYS ask "um ... can you heal or are you DPS ... or one of those that can do both?"

Maybe that's my server, but it's been pleasant. I'm not even anonymous. The last shroud I ran our dedicated healer cleric bit it in part 4 to a meteor swarm and the bard and I just kept plugging away ... both of us in the melee and both of us cycling mass cures.[/url]
Seriously. I'm surprised nobody mentioned this until this post. There is no reason to restrain yourself to 12 Favored Soul levels. While they may not be top-tier (which you aren't even looking for) DPS, they can certainly hold their own, and going to 20 definitely has many advantages of its own.

You could play it exactly like you described. You just self-heal with mass cures/heals. Healing everyone else too is just a bonus.

That being said, if you do want 12/6/2, you could go ranger. You lose one feat, but gain the alacrity and 1st level ranger spells. The biggest problem I see with a ranger splash is if you rely on TWF and ITWF from ranger levels, then you either have to front load the ranger levels or wait til higher levels to get them. Leveling either way kind of sucks.

If you really want people to not even ask you to heal, you could go with a WF fvs, take Frenzied Berserker I, and use a really big sword. Seriously, when a WF shows up to the party with a big sword, nobody even thinks healer.

[sacredguyver]

That being said, if you do want 12/6/2, you could go ranger. You lose one feat, but gain the alacrity and 1st level ranger spells. The biggest problem I see with a ranger splash is if you rely on TWF and ITWF from ranger levels, then you either have to front load the ranger levels or wait til higher levels to get them. Leveling either way kind of sucks.
I don't feel like I'm losing much by not playing a pure FvS. Further increased saves, a third Energy Resistance feat, wings, capstone for DR 10/??? and more SP and spells is about it. Base Attack Bonus isn't worth mentioning losing because the Fighter and Ranger have the better progression. The only appeal Ranger has to me is the Favored Enemy, which I can't justify taking.. I'm still front loading the Fighter levels to qualify for the Kensei 1 PrE sooner, as well as the fact that I couldn't decide on an effective way to split them up.


If you really want people to not even ask you to heal, you could go with a WF fvs, take Frenzied Berserker I, and use a really big sword. Seriously, when a WF shows up to the party with a big sword, nobody even thinks healer.
Just to take Frenzied Barbarian 1, I would need 6 levels of Barbarian. That would still leave me taking a 12/6/2 split or a 14/6 build.

[Ilklr]

I don't feel like I'm losing much by not playing a pure FvS. Further increased saves, a third Energy Resistance feat, wings, capstone for DR 10/??? and more SP and spells is about it.Unless Turbine is planning to implement backwards mechanics in 9, that's some pretty good stuff there. Fair enough though, if you don't want it. I just wanted to give it as a viable option.


Base Attack Bonus isn't worth mentioning losing because the Fighter and Ranger have the better progression. The only appeal Ranger has to me is the Favored Enemy, which I can't justify taking..Of course, everyone in melee has a BAB of 20 :D The alacrity from ranger is tempting, and extra strength and damage never hurt anyone, but I probably wouldn't go ranger either.


Just to take Frenzied Barbarian 1, I would need 6 levels of Barbarian. That would still leave me taking a 12/6/2 split or a 14/6 build.Yes, I was assuming a 12/6/2 build here.

[sigtrent]

I'm thinking of doing a Monk 1 Fighter 6 Soul 13 for a melee focused FS.

I like the extra feats from fighter as it lets me run max/emp/extend and still have a full line of THF feats. Monk adds to AC and grants a bonus feat for toughness. This is for a WF build mind you.

For pure power and durability its hard to beat pure FS but I always enjoy the flexibility and challenge of multi class design.

[sacredguyver]

I'm thinking of doing a Monk 1 Fighter 6 Soul 13 for a melee focused FS.

I like the extra feats from fighter as it lets me run max/emp/extend and still have a full line of THF feats. Monk adds to AC and grants a bonus feat for toughness. This is for a WF build mind you.

For pure power and durability its hard to beat pure FS but I always enjoy the flexibility and challenge of multi class design.
Aside from the extra SP and a second level 6 spell slot, what do you get from a 13th level of Favored Soul? A second level of Monk gets you Evasion, another Martial Arts feat (that could be used for Power Attack or to start on the THF line of feats, depending on when you take it), a bump to B.A.B and Saves, and if you find a use for it, the first level of an Animal Path enhancement.


@Ilklr What alacrity are you speaking of? The only alacrity bonuses I can find for melees is from an item. If you are speaking of Tempest 1, then that 10% bonus is a bonus to the chance of triggering another off-hand attack, not melee attack speed.

[Ilklr]

@Ilklr What alacrity are you speaking of? The only alacrity bonuses I can find for melees is from an item. If you are speaking of Tempest 1, then that 10% bonus is a bonus to the chance of triggering another off-hand attack, not melee attack speed.Ah, sorry. I'm an old timer that still thinks of tempest as the pre-U5 alacrity. Though in all fairness, getting extra attacks is technically a speed boost. :D

[sacredguyver]

Ah, sorry. I'm an old timer that still thinks of tempest as the pre-U5 alacrity. Though in all fairness, getting extra attacks is technically a speed boost. :D
And it's one that stacks with Haste, unlike the Melee Alacrity from Jorgundal's Collar. :D

Thanks for all the input, everyone. Now I just need the last 95 favor to unlock Favored Souls and we can see how well this abomination will work out. xD

[krisz93]

If I had FVS unlocked I would definitely make a 12/6/2 elf toon with KotC and 2 monk. It has tons of bonuses to longswords(centered w/ WSS), hard hitting smites and effortless divine sacrifice.
Charisma buffs up your saves with Divine Grace and Evasion, and lets you take DM I.

[sacredguyver]

If I had FVS unlocked I would definitely make a 12/6/2 elf toon with KotC and 2 monk. It has tons of bonuses to longswords(centered w/ WSS), hard hitting smites and effortless divine sacrifice.
Charisma buffs up your saves with Divine Grace and Evasion, and lets you take DM I.
Unfortunately, if you plan to take the Angel of Vengeance Prestige Enhancement once Update 9 is released, you will not be able to take Knight of the Chalice.

Angel of Vengeance requires "Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I" (with "Energy of the Scion II" and "Energy of the Scion III") while Knight of the Chalice requires "Paladin Energy of the Templar I." Since they are both SP enhancements, the only way to take both would be if they changed enhancements beyond splitting up the elemental enhancements for Wizards and Sorcerers.

[krisz93]

Ugh, didn't know there were new PrEs coming

[sacredguyver]

Ugh, didn't know there were new PrEs coming
Yep. First two tiers of the Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance PrE and all three tiers of the Sorcerer Elemental Savant PrE.

I was doing some thinking earlier and got to wondering: Would I be better off keeping up Intimidate or should I put those skill points into Diplomacy instead?

[voodoogroves]

Yep. First two tiers of the Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance PrE and all three tiers of the Sorcerer Elemental Savant PrE.

I was doing some thinking earlier and got to wondering: Would I be better off keeping up Intimidate or should I put those skill points into Diplomacy instead?

Depends on how you want to play really. I tend to carry Intimidate because I play aggressively and only really want to shed aggro on my Rogues and sometimes Bards. Usually though, if I pull aggro I want it and I can handle it ... and sometimes I want to snag aggro because I'm sturdier than the rest of the party.

One thing about builds like this is that they are very self reliant and capable. They may not push high AC, but they have enough spells, etc. to heal, remove their own conditions, etc. It's going to be harder to take you down if you do it right than the barbarian or rogue. Sometimes its really handy to pull the aggro off of the dude about to die so he can recover while you deal with it.

Even on big TWF or THF builds ... and on my arcanes and divines ... I carry a shield and have at least one turtling option on my weapon sets / hotbar. Sometimes it's better for me just to take it.

Again, I play very aggressive and close-quarters.

[sacredguyver]

Depends on how you want to play really. I tend to carry Intimidate because I play aggressively and only really want to shed aggro on my Rogues and sometimes Bards. Usually though, if I pull aggro I want it and I can handle it ... and sometimes I want to snag aggro because I'm sturdier than the rest of the party.

One thing about builds like this is that they are very self reliant and capable. They may not push high AC, but they have enough spells, etc. to heal, remove their own conditions, etc. It's going to be harder to take you down if you do it right than the barbarian or rogue. Sometimes its really handy to pull the aggro off of the dude about to die so he can recover while you deal with it.

Even on big TWF or THF builds ... and on my arcanes and divines ... I carry a shield and have at least one turtling option on my weapon sets / hotbar. Sometimes it's better for me just to take it.

Again, I play very aggressive and close-quarters.
Makes sense. It'll be easier to kill things (or save others) if I have the aggro. No telling if when I hit the Diplomacy button, the aggro is going to go to the squishiest person near me.

What type of shields do you have available? Are there better options than Light and Darkness (http://ddowiki.com/images/Light_and_Darkness.jpg) for turtling on this kind of build?

Hm.... I may wind up shuffling the levels around. I just changed it so that I would be taking Maximize Spell at level 15 since that would be the last pre-requisite I need for Angel of Vengeance and have Greater Two Weapon Fighting at level 18. While I like the thought of having Force of Personality available to bolster my Will saves, if I can change things correctly, I may be able to swap it out for Quicken Spell instead, though it won't do no good to be able to throw myself a quick heal or a quick Raise Dead if I'm hit with Hold Person or the like.