Poorly thought out event: Let's all stack ornamental daggers and break DDO

[crazydamage]

I for one will be stacking ornamental daggers for unlimited zero SP maximize.
Running through dungeons nuking the **** out of everything will be uber fun.

Loving the OP ratkiller also which is about 3X better than any stunning maul that exists or will ever exist.

(Hint Devs: Make ornamental dagger exlusive. Epic items should be BTC not BTA).

EDIT: Tier 3 Bold trinket at ML 4?? Seriously, were the devs high? how did this slip past beta testing on lammania

EDIT2: Because the ignorant have trouble understanding: The dagger says 4 seconds of zero sp maximize. In reality it gives *20* seconds of zero sp maximize (another well thought out bug by the devs). Each dagger therefore gives 1 minute of zero sp maximize.
Stack 3-5 of these daggers and you are set for virtually any quest / raid.

In addition to arcanes already being the king of the mountain from Firewall all the way to lvl 19, you have to remember that there are arcanes out there that ROUTINELY solo epics.
I know of at least 2 arcanes, one that solos epic ADQ1 and the other that solos epic wiz king (including the wiz king himself).
If people are already capable of these things, think about how much zero sp maximize lowers the bar for others to do the same.

And that doesnt even cover what divines can do with zero sp maximize

[Keybreaker]

I really admire your eloquence and self-restraint... and knowledge of the game.

Are you being serious? As serious as me?

Noxious Embers is an ML13 non-epic raid item that grants 5 clickies of Lesser Maximize (as well as Sup Combustion 7 and Greater Arcane Lore)... an ML20 epic dagger with 3 clickies of Lesser Maximize is clearly overpowered. Bravo!

With two of these daggers, that's an astounding 6 clickies or (at 4 sec each) 24 sec of free maximize!!! ZOMG so overpowered... DDO is broken... RIP DDO.

[Stamp3de]

I really admire your eloquence and self-restraint... and knowledge of the game.

Are you being serious? As serious as me?

Noxious Embers is an ML13 non-epic raid item that grants 5 clickies of Lesser Maximize (as well as Sup Combustion 7 and Greater Arcane Lore)... an ML20 epic dagger with 3 clickies of Lesser Maximize is clearly overpowered. Bravo!

With two of these daggers, that's an astounding 6 clickies or (at 4 sec each) 24 sec of free maximize!!! ZOMG so overpowered... DDO is broken... RIP DDO.

Noxious ember clickies last 20 seconds each. The item is exclusive.
I believe the op is talking about how the daggers aren't exclusive and thus you can make as many free maximize clickies as u want.

[mystafyi]

dagger says 4 seconds... but gives 20 seconds...

[porq]

Feel free to carry a stack of them. Your free bag space will suffer, and that's the tradeoff.

[Xenus_Paradox]

Congratulations!

You still don't do as much DPS as a melee.

[crazydamage]

Casters > Melee. Limited only by SP.

And stacking 20 second free maximize clickies fixes 1/2 of the SP problem

[Xenus_Paradox]

Casters > Melee. Limited only by SP.

And stacking 20 second free maximize clickies fixes 1/2 of the SP problem

Go ahead. Stuff your whole backpack with clickies.

Even if you can go through every quest in the game without spending the extra SP for Maximize, it won't break the game.

[Krag]

Although I am pretty sure the lack of 'exclusive' property is an overlook and will be fixed soon, even a stack of ornamented daggers won't make blasters more welcome into epics than enchanters.

[blitzschlag]

Although I am pretty sure the lack of 'exclusive' property is an overlook and will be fixed soon, even a stack of ornamented daggers won't make blasters more welcome into epics than enchanters.

cmon, not even if you stack 2000 of those?
don't be so negative...

[Malithar45]

You going to be able to finally CC eChrono end boss trash with these daggers Crazy? If not, don't care.

Daggers are pretty nice though, maybe kinda broken, but meh. Gotta toss a bone to the casters too.

[pie2655]

+1 to OP

[shortdevils]

because of one dagger the ENTIRE event is not out well?

mmm...you may be on to something :rolleyes:

[crazydamage]

because of one dagger the ENTIRE event is not out well?

mmm...you may be on to something :rolleyes:

I've listed 3 examples of things not well thought out.

1. Powerful non exclusive clickys
2. Epic items which are BTA and not BTC
3. Ridiculously powerful items at low ML

[CrosisBlackwing]

The gloves from Chrono are ML 5 and give you +1 Damage and Shocking Blow. Just missing +2 Exceptional seeker. Yep. Cuz that is broken.

[crazydamage]

The gloves from Chrono are ML 5 and give you +1 Damage and Shocking Blow. Just missing +2 Exceptional seeker. Yep. Cuz that is broken.

The chrono gloves do not give u +1 dmg.

Having said that, the charged gauntlets are quite broken at lvl 4.
Stack those with the tier 3 bold trinket (extra +1 dmg and 2 exc seeker)
Carnifex, or Icy burst flaming burst of pure good ML 4 weapon and go have fun.

[CrosisBlackwing]

The chrono gloves do not give u +1 dmg.

Having said that, the charged gauntlets are quite broken at lvl 4.
Stack those with the tier 3 bold trinket (extra +1 dmg and 2 exc seeker)
Carnifex, or Icy burst flaming burst of pure good ML 4 weapon and go have fun.

+2 Str is +1 Damage, and +1 to-hit. Wielding the Carnifex was already good, this just makes it better. Do you honestly have troubles at level 4 killing stuff? If so this won't really help you out. Just saying, they aren't ZOMG WHY DID THEY MAKE THAT!? Good. Its good loot for sure, but not game breaking.

[crazydamage]

+2 Str is +1 Damage, and +1 to-hit. Wielding the Carnifex was already good, this just makes it better. Do you honestly have troubles at level 4 killing stuff? If so this won't really help you out. Just saying, they aren't ZOMG WHY DID THEY MAKE THAT!? Good. Its good loot for sure, but not game breaking.

So you dont wear any other +X str item at lvl 4? You cant count a stat bonus as +1 dmg because you could easily have + str from an ioun stone or some other slot.

I guess nothing can be "game breaking" in the sense that DDO cannot be won or lost.

However if I make a sword that is +20 with 10d6 base dmg and 10-20 X4 crit , I guess its not "game breaking" for you is it?

So if you dont think that continuous free maximize is not game breaking, then what for you is game breaking

[die]

I have abad filling the Dev's are hOoking us all up WIth good gear becasue........DOOOOOOOOOM WERE going into a spring and summer of no new content,, just saying doooooom DOOoooOooOoOoOooOoOOM :)../SARCASM ON

[Gremmlynn]

So you dont wear any other +X str item at lvl 4? You cant count a stat bonus as +1 dmg because you could easily have + str from an ioun stone or some other slot.

I guess nothing can be "game breaking" in the sense that DDO cannot be won or lost.

However if I make a sword that is +20 with 10d6 base dmg and 10-20 X4 crit , I guess its not "game breaking" for you is it?

So if you dont think that continuous free maximize is not game breaking, then what for you is game breakingIf you feel it breaks the game, simply don't use it or group with those that do and your game wont be broken.

[CrosisBlackwing]

So you dont wear any other +X str item at lvl 4? You cant count a stat bonus as +1 dmg because you could easily have + str from an ioun stone or some other slot.

I guess nothing can be "game breaking" in the sense that DDO cannot be won or lost.

However if I make a sword that is +20 with 10d6 base dmg and 10-20 X4 crit , I guess its not "game breaking" for you is it?

So if you dont think that continuous free maximize is not game breaking, then what for you is game breaking

What bonus to Str can you wear at level 4? I'll give you a hint: +2.

2nd, If the sword is balanced with the rest of the game, no it isn't broken.

3rd, I never said Free Maximize wasn't broken. I was disputing the point that the Iteams at low ML are "broken" or "too good".

[donfilibuster]

I've listed 3 examples of things not well thought out.

1. Powerful non exclusive clickys
2. Epic items which are BTA and not BTC
3. Ridiculously powerful items at low ML

About these...

1. I imagine the crafting screen don't have a provision for exclusive items.
It would be a problem if innocent crafters make two daggers they suddenly can't carry.

But powerful items should still be exclusive, so it should be in the code.
Having grayed out recipes may look ugly but eventually should figure you have to bank the first copy.

2. Don't putting augments in epic slots make the item BtC? Just asking because i don't know.

And what about Bind on Equip items? There latest packs had more of these, could have been a good option.

3. A named item is one less tier, a random item that is BtA is one less tier, a named item that is BtA can be two tier below the usual.

It depends on the abilities, the top tier powers on them are probably worth making them BtC, as raid items are.
But event gear can very well be outside this restriction, e.g. the risia crafting, but that's another issue.

[Chai]

After pointing out how much Turbine sucks, was your next action to log into DDO, or were you logged in while you typed it all out?

Irony rules.

[Zirun]

How is virtually infinite free Maximizing at the cost of spending a lot of time in the event any different from a stack of 45724835340 Mnemonic pots which are more readily and easily obtainable? Seems like six and a half-dozen to me...

If there's a problem with casters soloing epic content, it's surely not because of a few items that make it cost less of the 4534895034859345 plat they surely have.

[QuantumFX]

What bonus to Str can some clown straight off of Korthos Island wear at level 4? I'll give you a hint: +2.

Fixes in RED. You can wear an Assault on Stormreach spawned +4 Stat ring at level 1. You don’t wanna know what you can wear at level 5.

[crazydamage]

How is virtually infinite free Maximizing at the cost of spending a lot of time in the event any different from a stack of 45724835340 Mnemonic pots which are more readily and easily obtainable? Seems like six and a half-dozen to me...

If there's a problem with casters soloing epic content, it's surely not because of a few items that make it cost less of the 4534895034859345 plat they surely have.

I guarantee you I can have 5 daggers within a few hours of farming.

I'm putting this out there for the community to see. If enough people care maybe something will get changed.

Until then, I will be abusing the daggers ( as would any high lvl epic caster worth their salt).

[Xenus_Paradox]

I guarantee you I can have 5 daggers within a few hours of farming.

I'm putting this out there for the community to see. If enough people care maybe something will get changed.

Until then, I will be abusing the daggers ( as would any high lvl epic caster worth their salt).

"Abusing" by saving yourself a couple hundred SP?

OK. LOL.

Honestly, if you're having trouble with running out of SP in ANY quest, then a stack of clickies can't fix what's wrong with you.

[wigthemaster]

I guarantee you I can have 5 daggers within a few hours of farming.

I'm putting this out there for the community to see. If enough people care maybe something will get changed.

Until then, I will be abusing the daggers ( as would any high lvl epic caster worth their salt).

Just a quick question:

So... your going to abuse something you believe is an exploit and your going to tell the world your doing so, and your tell turbine what your doing, and your probably fully aware you can be banned for abusing an exploit. So either:
1) your extremely self-destructive
or
2) you've no real idea what your doing (e.g. can't connect 1 and 2)

~wig

[stille_nacht]

Casters > Melee. Limited only by SP.

And stacking 20 second free maximize clickies fixes 1/2 of the SP problem

wrong, even when nuking, casters < melee at top level. Also, clicking somethign constantly would probably be something i dont even bother with....

[donfilibuster]

I guarantee you I can have 5 daggers within a few hours of farming.

I'm putting this out there for the community to see. If enough people care maybe something will get changed.


I tried asking people how can you get more than one fully upgraded item in a day since every cove only gives about 200 shards per run.
(300 -100 of the kobolds quota, makes 400 per hr, 3200 from 8 hrs, against 2100-2700 the dagger costs)

Thus you can indeed do coves all day to make one such dagger, but five?
You'll run out of february before having a dozen daggers.

[Gremmlynn]

I guarantee you I can have 5 daggers within a few hours of farming.

I'm putting this out there for the community to see. If enough people care maybe something will get changed.

Until then, I will be abusing the daggers ( as would any high lvl epic caster worth their salt).If that's how you get your enjoyment from the game, more power to you.

[wigthemaster]

I tried asking people how can you get more than one fully upgraded item in a day since every cove only gives about 200 shards per run.
(300 -100 of the kobolds quota, makes 400 per hr, 3200 from 8 hrs, against 2100-2700 the dagger costs)

Thus you can indeed do coves all day to make one such dagger, but five?
You'll run out of february before having a dozen daggers.

If i remember correctly the dagger doesn't gain more clickies the higher it goes in tier. The first tier 1(or tier 0 as some people like to call it) has all the clickies and costs the coins and 35 diamonds(or emeralds don't remember) so it's a lot easier to get then that.

[mystafyi]

I tried asking people how can you get more than one fully upgraded item in a day since every cove only gives about 200 shards per run.
(300 -100 of the kobolds quota, makes 400 per hr, 3200 from 8 hrs, against 2100-2700 the dagger costs)

Thus you can indeed do coves all day to make one such dagger, but five?
You'll run out of february before having a dozen daggers.


if you run the quest at 5 levels higher then your toon you get a 100% bonus to xstals.

[Rumbaar]

But can I put Icy Burst and Frost onto it?!

[Bloodhaven]

I for one will be stacking ornamental daggers for unlimited zero SP maximize.
Running through dungeons nuking the **** out of everything will be uber fun.

Loving the OP ratkiller also which is about 3X better than any stunning maul that exists or will ever exist.

(Hint Devs: Make ornamental dagger exlusive. Epic items should be BTC not BTA).

EDIT: Tier 3 Bold trinket at ML 4?? Seriously, were the devs high? how did this slip past beta testing on lammania

EDIT2: Because the ignorant have trouble understanding: The dagger says 4 seconds of zero sp maximize. In reality it gives *20* seconds of zero sp maximize (another well thought out bug by the devs). Each dagger therefore gives 1 minute of zero sp maximize.
Stack 3-5 of these daggers and you are set for virtually any quest / raid.

In addition to arcanes already being the king of the mountain from Firewall all the way to lvl 19, you have to remember that there are arcanes out there that ROUTINELY solo epics.
I know of at least 2 arcanes, one that solos epic ADQ1 and the other that solos epic wiz king (including the wiz king himself).
If people are already capable of these things, think about how much zero sp maximize lowers the bar for others to do the same.

And that doesnt even cover what divines can do with zero sp maximize

Sounds like trolling to me

-1

[NXPlasmid]

I for one will be stacking ornamental daggers for unlimited zero SP maximize.
Running through dungeons nuking the **** out of everything will be uber fun.

Loving the OP ratkiller also which is about 3X better than any stunning maul that exists or will ever exist.

(Hint Devs: Make ornamental dagger exlusive. Epic items should be BTC not BTA).

EDIT: Tier 3 Bold trinket at ML 4?? Seriously, were the devs high? how did this slip past beta testing on lammania

EDIT2: Because the ignorant have trouble understanding: The dagger says 4 seconds of zero sp maximize. In reality it gives *20* seconds of zero sp maximize (another well thought out bug by the devs). Each dagger therefore gives 1 minute of zero sp maximize.
Stack 3-5 of these daggers and you are set for virtually any quest / raid.

In addition to arcanes already being the king of the mountain from Firewall all the way to lvl 19, you have to remember that there are arcanes out there that ROUTINELY solo epics.
I know of at least 2 arcanes, one that solos epic ADQ1 and the other that solos epic wiz king (including the wiz king himself).
If people are already capable of these things, think about how much zero sp maximize lowers the bar for others to do the same.

And that doesnt even cover what divines can do with zero sp maximize

do you need some hot cocoa? there there, it's ok... mommy is here.

[TEcarson]

Until then, I will be abusing the daggers ( as would any high lvl epic caster worth their salt).

Don't do that...you'll go blind.

[donfilibuster]

If i remember correctly the dagger doesn't gain more clickies the higher it goes in tier. The first tier 1(or tier 0 as some people like to call it) has all the clickies and costs the coins and 35 diamonds(or emeralds don't remember) so it's a lot easier to get then that.

Ok, i see, that explains the fuzz, it is not the same issue as handing out epic slotted items as i first tought.

Free metamagic kind of doubles your sp all of a sudden, specially on healers.

On comparison, damage boosters like high lv efficiency and eardweller are exclusive, which is a way of save sp that rely on clickies.

Maybe it was not a good thing to have on craftable items, at least not maximize, any other of the metamagics would have less impact.



if you run the quest at 5 levels higher then your toon you get a 100% bonus to xstals.

Yeah, noticed people doing all the farming at lv 25, altought i tought that was the level you do for 200 per cove.
If you get double the shards naturally you can craft twice the items.

[Calinc]

Is this serious? Is this a joke?

First of all 5 minutes of free maximize is nothing. I don't understand how you can completely neglect the fact that it's only adding what, 16? after enhancements? to a spell that costs 60? All this rage you are spilling out makes it sound like without maximize your spell is free and will instantly kill everything! Stop saying things are OP before you have even USED THEM and TESTED THEM! I think the people that programmed the game from the ground up know maybe just a little bit more about the mechanics than you.

Finally a chance for players who havn't tr'd 7 times to get good items! MUST COMPLAINNNN

Relax and play the game, if a problem arrises with things that have been added I guarentee you will see them fixed in a timely fashion now **** and enjoy the game. Never happy.


Edit -- On the never happy subject

What kind of complaints are these?
It's like you got a check from the bank and they added an extra 0 (1000 vs 100) by accident and you run back to the bank in rage yelling WHAT THE HELL WHY DID YOU GIVE ME EXTRA MONEY ARE YOU HIGH? TAKE THE MONEY BACK YOU IDIOT!

[locus]

Casters > Melee. Limited only by SP.

And stacking 20 second free maximize clickies fixes 1/2 of the SP problem

No. Not really. There are plenty of already-in game fixes to the "sp problem" - sp clickies, regen, hell even pots if you want. None of that makes casters outpace melee damage at cap, at all. If you think so, then uh, I don't know what you've been running.


What bonus to Str can you wear at level 4? I'll give you a hint: +2.

As pointed out, you sound a bit misinformed :) There are far higher no ML items in game, dating back to Phiarlan or so. Sure, this free event will come as a shock to people who only play free content, cough.

Maybe you should start a thread complaining about the free metamagics Archmages get?

[Vengeance777]

I know of at least 2 arcanes, one that solos epic ADQ1 and the other that solos epic wiz king (including the wiz king himself).

Cool. How are the casters soloing Epic ADQ 1? Curious to know how they have enough sp for the 6 halls. Are they Pale MAsters? Do they drink a lot of pots? And whats their strategy for the queen, especially the second fight with the reavers and disjunction balls?

[crazydamage]

wrong, even when nuking, casters < melee at top level. Also, clicking somethign constantly would probably be something i dont even bother with....

O rly, because ur melee does more dps than a fully geared eardweller sorc?

[crazydamage]

Just a quick question:

So... your going to abuse something you believe is an exploit and your going to tell the world your doing so, and your tell turbine what your doing, and your probably fully aware you can be banned for abusing an exploit. So either:
1) your extremely self-destructive
or
2) you've no real idea what your doing (e.g. can't connect 1 and 2)

~wig

It's not an exploit, its an extremely unbalancing item.

THe same as if they were to release a sword that was +50

[crazydamage]

I tried asking people how can you get more than one fully upgraded item in a day since every cove only gives about 200 shards per run.
(300 -100 of the kobolds quota, makes 400 per hr, 3200 from 8 hrs, against 2100-2700 the dagger costs)

Thus you can indeed do coves all day to make one such dagger, but five?
You'll run out of february before having a dozen daggers.

200 over quota gives 300 shards. You can do 2 runs per unlock of the cove = 600 shards. That is 40 minutes of time.

[Delt]

This complaint is dumb.

[Bechtinger]

200 over quota gives 300 shards. You can do 2 runs per unlock of the cove = 600 shards. That is 40 minutes of time.

Well, i did some runs with 200 over quota on the preview and have never giotten any more than 200 shards. SO do your stuff with 400.

[locus]

O rly, because ur melee does more dps than a fully geared eardweller sorc?

Yes, they do. Fully geared out melees do. Hell, somewhat geared out melees do. And if it's a FvS melee or a bard they can buff and heal too. When my wizard can swing a greataxe, without any melee feats, and contribute not insignificant damage, then yeah :P

Also, are you expecting people to take you seriously with writing like the above? :/ Or the inability to multi-quote. I guess you're just bored because the event is down and need to troll, eh?

[MsEricka]

What bonus to Str can you wear at level 4? I'll give you a hint: +2.

Fail.

How's about a +4 no ML BTA strength ring?

[Pfold]

I for one will be stacking ornamental daggers for unlimited zero SP maximize.
Running through dungeons nuking the **** out of everything will be uber fun.

Loving the OP

That's about as far as I could read.

Your tears shorted out my monitor.

Next time, less tears.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Fail.

How's about a +4 no ML BTA strength ring?

oh noes +4 str at level 1?

thats like..like..not having to click that bulls strength potion stack every couple of minutes! *OMG!* :)

my personal favourite uber twinky no-ML gear is moderate fort from the stormreach plaza line.. for a wf, 100% crit immunity from level 1? very, very nice :D

[Shade]

eh yea they need a nerf. I'd give a little tho buff with the nerf tho turbine:

Switch maximize clicky to t3 only.
Only make t3 exclusive. t2 and t1 remain non exclusive.
Increases clicky amount to 5x.

GRANDFATHER EXISTING ITEMS. Retroactive nerfs are not cool, and not neccasary to stop this stockpiling, since the event was time limited, and not many ppl made them.

Using clickies to save SP is a good feature. It takes skill, and time to use a clicky, maybe its only 1 seconds.. But in DDO, every second counts.

A a ton of players think there great and can take massive advantage of this time, but in reality forget to use clickies most of the time so they aren't quite game breaking.

The devs realised that and are making clickies better and more plentiful, bit by bit.

Ones who posted in this thread are amoung them.

[Bloodstealer]

WARNING .... Dont Feed The Troll !!

[crazydamage]

Yes, they do. Fully geared out melees do. Hell, somewhat geared out melees do. And if it's a FvS melee or a bard they can buff and heal too. When my wizard can swing a greataxe, without any melee feats, and contribute not insignificant damage, then yeah :P

Also, are you expecting people to take you seriously with writing like the above? :/ Or the inability to multi-quote. I guess you're just bored because the event is down and need to troll, eh?

Sounds like you need to leave korthos island and group with some competent arcanes.
My fighter (myddo him if u want) with multiple epic items cannot 1 shot the minotaurs in the event.
A moderate to well geared caster can 1 shot an entire group of minotaurs in the event with delayed blast fireball.

[crazydamage]

Well, i did some runs with 200 over quota on the preview and have never giotten any more than 200 shards. SO do your stuff with 400.

200 over quota at lvl 25 gives 300 shards. Go back to lammania then.

[locus]

Sounds like you need to leave korthos island and group with some competent arcanes.
My fighter (myddo him if u want) with multiple epic items cannot 1 shot the minotaurs in the event.
A moderate to well geared caster can 1 shot an entire group of minotaurs in the event with delayed blast fireball.

I think you need to look up what "dps" stands for, because "one shotting a few things and then going back to regen" is not it. And I think you also need to learn how to quote properly, but I'm feeding a troll now ;(

(By the way, "whittling away at an enemy with ten thousands of hitpoints by casting wall of fire at them" also is not dps, so eh on your 'eardweller sorc.')

[Razcar]

We have had serious duping exploits. We have had vorpals that killed on crits. We have had wounding/puncturing rapiers on barbarians with crit ranges of 13-20 that killed any non-red critable mob, in in any quest in 1-2 seconds.

Neither "broke" the game when they were around. Because it's a PvE game.

[crazydamage]

I think you need to look up what "dps" stands for, because "one shotting a few things and then going back to regen" is not it. And I think you also need to learn how to quote properly, but I'm feeding a troll now ;(

(By the way, "whittling away at an enemy with ten thousands of hitpoints by casting wall of fire at them" also is not dps, so eh on your 'eardweller sorc.')

I think u need to look up what "sorc spamming every dps spell i.e. meteor swarm, polar ray, disintegrate, cone of cold, multiple force spells, all while firewall/icestorm is ticking" means.

[Zirun]

I think u need to look up what "sorc spamming every dps spell i.e. meteor swarm, polar ray, disintegrate, cone of cold, multiple force spells, all while firewall/icestorm is ticking" means.

That means OOM, right?

[crazydamage]

We have had serious duping exploits. We have had vorpals that killed on crits. We have had wounding/puncturing rapiers on barbarians with crit ranges of 13-20 that killed any non-red critable mob, in in any quest in 1-2 seconds.

Neither "broke" the game when they were around. Because it's a PvE game.

Agreed. And if you comb the thread carefully, you will notice that I specifically address this as "ddo cannot be won or lost".

However, that does not mean that ridiculous items should be released. Otherwise, lets go ahead and make some swords that do 1000 dmg per hit cause "its a PVE game anyway".

[crazydamage]

That means OOM, right?

Read the thread to understand what he was arguing about before posting.

[Razcar]

Agreed. And if you comb the thread carefully, you will notice that I specifically address this as "ddo cannot be won or lost".

However, that does not mean that ridiculous items should be released. Otherwise, lets go ahead and make some swords that do 1000 dmg per hit cause "its a PVE game anyway".I agree that there should be some sort of "balance" even in PvE games, because it makes it hard for the developers to tune the fun-potentiometer in content if there's a factor that nullifies the challenge.

This clicky on several items is hardly on the scale of a 1000 dmg per hit-weapon, however. The unbalances I listed (that all got fixed/nerfed) was way worse IMO, and the game was still fun and playable when they were around.

But I do suspect that this item will be made exclusive, and I agree that it probably should be. Maybe in today's hotfix.

[Bloodstealer]

I think u need to look up what "sorc spamming every dps spell i.e. meteor swarm, polar ray, disintegrate, cone of cold, multiple force spells, all while firewall/icestorm is ticking" means.

Any chance I cud grab a Haste amongst all that... what OoM !!! ... u seriously need to get some daggers !!! :D

[locus]

That means OOM, right?
That was my guess ;)

(And er, Zirun responded right on target, so the thread was definitely read. Heehee.)

Seriously, crazydamage, I realize that you're trying to live up to your forum name, but have you ever tried, say, wailing all those minotaurs? I think that would make for a better argument for "casters are ruling Smugger's Rest dps" (versus "spam every skill I have on one monster and then go regen).

[Pfold]

Any chance I cud grab a Haste and Rage amongst all that... what OoM !!! ... u seriously need to get some daggers !!! :D


Fixed

[Bloodstealer]

Fixed
Ahh always forget - Barbies luv rage FTW.... but ur just draining the poor scorchy now, can't you see :D

[SiliconShadow]

That was my guess ;)

(And er, Zirun responded right on target, so the thread was definitely read. Heehee.)

Seriously, crazydamage, I realize that you're trying to live up to your forum name, but have you ever tried, say, wailing all those minotaurs? I think that would make for a better argument for "casters are ruling Smugger's Rest dps" (versus "spam every skill I have on one monster and then go regen).

Crazy was showing that spamming the spells on a sorc in that way is DPS not showing against the event monsters inperticular.

Those PMs who wail everything in the event are really starting to pee me off kill stealing... *****..

The daggers are not game breaking, hell they might even let casters contribute some damage at end game instead of being CC bots CRAZY THOUGHT OMG!..

Shagath has every caster past life on Khyber he has been waiting for his noxious embers for a year, last night he drops noxious embers and the night before he crafted the dagger, he is now so happy that he can not be bored totally at end game due to him not being able to "dps" just cc and sit there or cc and beat with a dreamspitter.. which is not why he rolled a caster, he rolled a caster a DnD sorc originally to nuke things.. not happening YET but this is a step in the right direction.

Instead of 9 people dpsing in a raid we can have 10 now :D??? Maybe?

[BodenDDO]

eh yea they need a nerf. I'd give a little tho buff with the nerf tho turbine:

Switch maximize clicky to t3 only.
Only make t3 exclusive. t2 and t1 remain non exclusive.
Increases clicky amount to 5x.

GRANDFATHER EXISTING ITEMS. Retroactive nerfs are not cool, and not neccasary to stop this stockpiling, since the event was time limited, and not many ppl made them.

Using clickies to save SP is a good feature. It takes skill, and time to use a clicky, maybe its only 1 seconds.. But in DDO, every second counts.

A a ton of players think there great and can take massive advantage of this time, but in reality forget to use clickies most of the time so they aren't quite game breaking.

The devs realised that and are making clickies better and more plentiful, bit by bit.

Ones who posted in this thread are amoung them.

Translation: I made a ton of daggers in the hopes that the devs wouldn't do a retroactive nerf. Make sure no one can have what I have, but leave my obviously broken toys alone.

I swear, every loot comment post Shade makes is a plea to make his gear better and everyone elses worse. He has got to be the most gear competitive person in DDO.

[Ridag]

If you had enough daggers to have the clickie running every time you cast a damage spell you save 23 spell points per spell (since the dagger already reduces Maximize cost by 2). Less if you already have any Maximize reducing enhancements (I believe that most people have no more than 1 tier, if any).

My Sorc runs around with 3035 SP.

A fully Max+Exp+Extended Wall of Fire requires 83 SP, which I can cast 36 times on a full blue bar.

If I had the dagger clickie running the entire time I could cast Wall of Fire 50 times on a full blue bar.

14 more. If that was the only spell that I was casting throughout an entire SP bar.

Of course that is not the only spell used, there are buffs, there are CC spells. All of which are used, even (or especially) when solo'ing Epics.

This dagger is not going to turn arcanes into amazing dps machines, no matter how many they carry around in their pack.

What it will do is make mass cure healing much more efficient for divines...

[Hendrik]

I guarantee you I can have 5 daggers within a few hours of farming.

I'm putting this out there for the community to see. If enough people care maybe something will get changed.

Until then, I will be abusing the daggers ( as would any high lvl epic caster worth their salt).

Please do then we can /laugh when it is fixed and you start crying.

[Beethoven]

In addition to arcanes already being the king of the mountain from Firewall all the way to lvl 19, you have to remember that there are arcanes out there that ROUTINELY solo epics.
I know of at least 2 arcanes, one that solos epic ADQ1 and the other that solos epic wiz king (including the wiz king himself).

So? Leveling in DDO is easy enough. You don't need clickies to rule a large part of the content as arcane. Having a stack of those daggers would only amount to a capable caster having a little more SP left at the end of the quest and/or being able to skip some shrine.

However, most the time any actual benefit will be off-set by the time it takes and hassle of having to repeatedly click the same clickies while switching daggers.

I soloed wiz king and all unlimited free maximize would do is that I'd only need to use two or three shrines instead of all four. So what? Best case scenario is four minutes less completion time (assuming it takes two minutes to DDoor back, use the shrine and re-buff).

As for ADQ1; they probably were talking about solo'ing the chests. Commonly this is done by liberal use of invisibility and jump, neither of which is even affected by maximize. Also, ever since the Ninja Spy necklace this can actually be done saver and faster with a monk or favored soul.

What leaves as bottom line: a stack of daggers would make a simple task (level 19 and lower quests) even easier for arcane. So, basically the same thing having access to good gear already has. Beyond that? Nukers still will come up second in most end-game and epics to CC specced casters.

[Unreliable]

It was only a matter of time...

Oh well glad my FVS got 8 while he could.

[JohnWarlock]

I'm sorry but I don't see how the dagger having the clickies is over-powered / game breaking.

Sure it cuts down 25 sp points per cast of a spell, but if you seriously suggest to carry 5-10 daggers to run around w/ out maximize, it is clearly very poorly thought of you.

Level 20 Dagger, for lower level quests, you either don't go around nuking everything because there are more cost-effective spells. Mass-Hold Monster in amrath, and CC in epics.

Yes it will be a nice toy to play with, specially in raids when you're beating on a boss, kinda like the eardweller.

And so what if a caster gets 20 minutes of no maximize, as long as no one expects my casters to go around wasting slots on 4-5 daggers and looking for and activating clickeys every 20 seconds, more power to those that want to do it.

However that is not game breaking, and personally it is tiresome that people make 2 common mistakes.

First one believing that developers are infallible, they are after all people, not gods. Just like everyone else they can make mistakes.

Second one, I love how everyone keeps comparing level 14 (very outdated gear) to not only level 20 gear, but also epic. If all gear was meant to be the same why the hell do we want more gear then?

Also why would anyone ever criticize something that benefits them? It can't be caster envy? Is it? Your melee dps doesn't wield a long sword, you came rather short on the draw? That Greatsword is just a pretend weapon? Or is it just that god forbid that caster obtained something that might want to make them cast something besides haste / displacement and mass hold monster? And your dps will turn into dpm?

[muffinlad]

If you had enough daggers to have the clickie running every time you cast a damage spell you save 23 spell points per spell (since the dagger already reduces Maximize cost by 2). Less if you already have any Maximize reducing enhancements (I believe that most people have no more than 1 tier, if any).

My Sorc runs around with 3035 SP.

A fully Max+Exp+Extended Wall of Fire requires 83 SP, which I can cast 36 times on a full blue bar.

If I had the dagger clickie running the entire time I could cast Wall of Fire 50 times on a full blue bar.

14 more. If that was the only spell that I was casting throughout an entire SP bar.

Of course that is not the only spell used, there are buffs, there are CC spells. All of which are used, even (or especially) when solo'ing Epics.

This dagger is not going to turn arcanes into amazing dps machines, no matter how many they carry around in their pack.

What it will do is make mass cure healing much more efficient for divines...

^^this^^. Even if left entirely alone, this would cause almost no balance issues for such a high level item, and would cause irritation for the person playing the class for the most part.

That being said....I would favor making it an exclusive item, taking the clicky timer to 2 MIN. and only one click on an epic item. You basically get free max when running a boss fight.

muffinmana

[Gareth_Valinson]

How well would a tier 2 Dagger work for my self-healing twf paladin? (quicken/maximize/torq) Obviously it wouldn't be a full time use item, but swap it in right before a heal to allow for a couple more. Good idea or waste of effort?

[protokon]

I think you need to look up what "dps" stands for, because "one shotting a few things and then going back to regen" is not it. And I think you also need to learn how to quote properly, but I'm feeding a troll now ;(

(By the way, "whittling away at an enemy with ten thousands of hitpoints by casting wall of fire at them" also is not dps, so eh on your 'eardweller sorc.')

I think you are confused on your definitions sir.

DPS= damage-per-second, for most logical people.

barbarian swinging epic SOS = good DPS.
kensai fighter swinging mineral II khopeshes = good DPS.
rogues swinging mineral II rapiers = good DPS.

...ok, so I think we can agree this far.

cleric swinging conc opp greensteel mace (lol) = bad DPS
caster swinging <insert staff> = bad DPS.

think we could also agree on those things too.

caster roasting mobs in a firewall = good DPS.
caster with polar ray / delayed blast firewall = good DPS.

now let's approach this a bit differently.

caster using mass hold = no DPS
cleric using greater command = no DPS

Doesn't matter how much damage is dealt - DPS is DPS, no matter what shape or form. Please review your logic/definition of DPS before poorly implementing it in this argument.

[locus]

Level 20 Dagger, for lower level quests, you either don't go around nuking everything because there are more cost-effective spells. Mass-Hold Monster in amrath, and CC in epics.

Oh come on! ;) Have you read this thread? Crazydamage ONLY does crazy damage. He does not do holds or charms or anything but every nuking spell he has on one monster + runs to regen. It's totally going to be overpowered for him, not counting the running back to shrines.



I think you are confused on your definitions sir.
No, I'm not .... at all. Just broadening it to mean more than "15-30 seconds" and more like "between shrines inside a quest during active fighting." My posts were also about melee vs nuking sorc, not cc enchanter to nuker sorc, so I'm not sure whose logic (or really, rather, reading) is failing here, but thanks for 1) insulting my logic (?!?! ok), 2) not reading the thread and 3) making a blanket announcement that all dps is dps (ok thanks for that clarification :)) when the point was that as a well geared nuking sorc you're not going to be out-dpsing well geared melees of the same level, in most content (possibly epic wizking being an exception) unless you're limiting your examination window to 30sec or so and not aggregate during a quest.

Also, no need for the sir, especially if you're not sure it applies to your audience ;)

[Philibusta]

You going to be able to finally CC eChrono end boss trash with these daggers Crazy? If not, don't care.

Daggers are pretty nice though, maybe kinda broken, but meh. Gotta toss a bone to the casters too.

Turbine did that already. Remember, last time they introduced a new live event? The Mabar thing? Yeah, thats the one. The one where ALL the obtainable gear from the event was geared toward casters. Well, that cloak coulda been useful to a rogue, I suppose...but the rest was all for casters. All us melee's could do was basically farm those mote of night things and help take down the dragon. For which we got...what? a chance to upgrade items we cant even use? Yay.

Anyway thats MY pointless complaint for the day....hopefully it was as entertaining as the OP's...

[protokon]

No, I'm not really. Just broadening it to mean more than "15-30 seconds" and more like "between shrines inside a quest during active fighting." My posts were also about melee vs nuking sorc, not cc enchanter to nuker sorc, so I'm not sure whose logic (or really, rather, reading) is failing here, but thanks for 1) insulting my logic (?!?! ok) and 2) not reading the thread.

Also, no need for the good sir, especially if you're not sure it applies to your audience and might be annoyingly reminiscent of what goons tend to get ingrained into them :)

Sir, I assure you I mean no direspect - really.

any kind of damage is considered DPS, the duration is irrelevant - as the phrase says, "damager per second". Therefore, if the damage lasts for any amount of time, it is DPS. obviously the damage over time becomes more pitiful if the damage drops to 0 (ergo, the caster runs out of SP).

-if firewall lasted 3 seconds, it is still DPS.
-last time i Checked on my sorc, I could last *much* longer than 15-30 seconds even spamming spells, so even your 'extended' logic is flawed.

DPS is DPS, you can't really use DPS is not DPS which is what I took your statement for (face value).

EDIT: and if you wanna compare melee DPS to a caster DPS, let's see...

50 spell points base(lvl 9 spell w/ heighten) + 10 quicken + 15 empower + maximize (now free with the dagger for several minutes if you stock up) = 75 spell points for an average of 600-1200 damage (over 2,000 on a mob that is weak against ice) let's assume 600 damage a shot.

sorcs have about 3,000 spell points. divide that by 75 and you get roughly 40 shots - not counting any spell point discount enhancements or items.

40 x 600 = 24,000 damage minimal. yes, no DPS there at all, none indeed.

[crazydamage]

So? Leveling in DDO is easy enough. You don't need clickies to rule a large part of the content as arcane. Having a stack of those daggers would only amount to a capable caster having a little more SP left at the end of the quest and/or being able to skip some shrine.

However, most the time any actual benefit will be off-set by the time it takes and hassle of having to repeatedly click the same clickies while switching daggers.

I soloed wiz king and all unlimited free maximize would do is that I'd only need to use two or three shrines instead of all four. So what? Best case scenario is four minutes less completion time (assuming it takes two minutes to DDoor back, use the shrine and re-buff).

As for ADQ1; they probably were talking about solo'ing the chests. Commonly this is done by liberal use of invisibility and jump, neither of which is even affected by maximize. Also, ever since the Ninja Spy necklace this can actually be done saver and faster with a monk or favored soul.

What leaves as bottom line: a stack of daggers would make a simple task (level 19 and lower quests) even easier for arcane. So, basically the same thing having access to good gear already has. Beyond that? Nukers still will come up second in most end-game and epics to CC specced casters.

Negative, I was talking about soloing the ENTIRE Adq1 quest, although the person I am thinking of does bring in help for the endfight.

Lets keep in mind that ADQ1 and Wiz king are 2 of the harder epics.

[Thrudh]

If you feel it breaks the game, simply don't use it or group with those that do and your game wont be broken.

I don't know if it "breaks the game", but that's a worthless answer for any game-breaking discussion.

They probably should make those daggers exclusive.

[locus]

any kind of damage is considered DPS, the duration is irrelevant - as the phrase says, "damager per second". Therefore, if the damage lasts for any amount of time, it is DPS. obviously the damage over time becomes more pitiful if the damage drops to 0 (ergo, the caster runs out of SP).


I think we're agreeing on everything. I didn't say one wasn't dps and one was (why are you arguing this?). I said melees still outpaced casters, even with this big abusive lesser maximize event clicky. *facepalms* :) Anyway, really we're not disagreeing :P

Solution for nuker sorc issue: make more end game content with undead!

edit: I'm fine with it being exclusive, but it's not as overwhelming as the OP thinks it is. Actually, I was way more surprised at there being a lack of epic tokens required for any of the items and _that_ is what I expect(ed) to be nerfed.

Anyway, I'm done, unless someone posts something funny fast >.>

[Qezuzu]

I guess nothing can be "game breaking" in the sense that DDO cannot be won or lost.

However if I make a sword that is +20 with 10d6 base dmg and 10-20 X4 crit , I guess its not "game breaking" for you is it?

So if you dont think that continuous free maximize is not game breaking, then what for you is game breaking

Saving 15-25 SP a cast is absolutely incomparable to making a weapon that would outclass everything else by a huge margain.

Being able to chug Major pots is far worse.

[Missing_Minds]

Feel free to carry a stack of them. Your free bag space will suffer, and that's the tradeoff.

People did that to spell storing rings before they were exclusive also. Given the SP saved, it is near the same difference.

[protokon]

I think we're agreeing on everything. I didn't say one wasn't dps and one was (why are you arguing this?). I said melees still outpaced casters, even with this big abusive lesser maximize event clicky. *facepalms* :) Anyway, really we're not disagreeing :P

Solution for nuker sorc issue: make more end game content with undead!

edit: I'm fine with it being exclusive, but it's not as overwhelming as the OP thinks it is. Actually, I was way more surprised at there being a lack of epic tokens required for any of the items and _that_ is what I expect(ed) to be nerfed.

Anyway, I'm done, unless someone posts something funny fast >.>

considering casters are already emptying out epic instances solo for scrolls, I don't think the dagger is going to have *that* much impact either.

/End of argument

[Thrudh]

It's like you got a check from the bank and they added an extra 0 (1000 vs 100) by accident and you run back to the bank in rage yelling WHAT THE HELL WHY DID YOU GIVE ME EXTRA MONEY ARE YOU HIGH? TAKE THE MONEY BACK YOU IDIOT!

You better indeed do that, because they WILL find the error, and you WILL have to pay the money back anyway...

Same with these daggers... They WILL nerf them someday, so don't complain if you take the time to make 10 of them, and they become exclusive in a month.

[Thrudh]

GRANDFATHER EXISTING ITEMS. Retroactive nerfs are not cool, and not neccasary to stop this stockpiling, since the event was time limited, and not many ppl made them.

Never EVER grandfather existing items...

That's a really crappy suggestion. That's someone looking after his own interests instead of the game.

[Thrudh]

If you had enough daggers to have the clickie running every time you cast a damage spell you save 23 spell points per spell (since the dagger already reduces Maximize cost by 2). Less if you already have any Maximize reducing enhancements (I believe that most people have no more than 1 tier, if any).

My Sorc runs around with 3035 SP.

A fully Max+Exp+Extended Wall of Fire requires 83 SP, which I can cast 36 times on a full blue bar.

If I had the dagger clickie running the entire time I could cast Wall of Fire 50 times on a full blue bar.

14 more. If that was the only spell that I was casting throughout an entire SP bar.

Of course that is not the only spell used, there are buffs, there are CC spells. All of which are used, even (or especially) when solo'ing Epics.

This dagger is not going to turn arcanes into amazing dps machines, no matter how many they carry around in their pack.

What it will do is make mass cure healing much more efficient for divines...

I'm not saying this item is broken... But your argument is kind of weak... 14 more firewalls (when before you were casting 36) is a 39% improvement... That's pretty big...

I don't think anyone will get this maximum theoretical gain for the reasons you pointed out... but yeah, being able to cast even 20% more firewalls is something most casters would love.

[PopeJual]

Fixes in RED. You can wear an Assault on Stormreach spawned +4 Stat ring at level 1. You don’t wanna know what you can wear at level 5.

Who's a what, then?

Where can I get an ML1 +4 stat item out of Assault on Stormreach? I missed that when I was farming my Maiming Rocksplitters.

I'd really like to know since I'm about to start farming the two Lordsmarch chains for XP and loot when I get back from vacation.

[PopeJual]

So you dont wear any other +X str item at lvl 4? You cant count a stat bonus as +1 dmg because you could easily have + str from an ioun stone or some other slot.

I guess nothing can be "game breaking" in the sense that DDO cannot be won or lost.

However if I make a sword that is +20 with 10d6 base dmg and 10-20 X4 crit , I guess its not "game breaking" for you is it?

So if you dont think that continuous free maximize is not game breaking, then what for you is game breaking

I hope that 10-20/x4 crit range includes a Keen effect on the weapon already. Otherwise, that would be too powerful for DDO even if the ML is even higher than 12.

[PopeJual]

Sounds like you need to leave korthos island and group with some competent arcanes.
My fighter (myddo him if u want) with multiple epic items cannot 1 shot the minotaurs in the event.
A moderate to well geared caster can 1 shot an entire group of minotaurs in the event with delayed blast fireball.

My Fighter can't 1 shot the Minotaurs in the event, but he can take them each down in about 3 seconds. And my Fighter doesn't have any Epic gear except for the two items he picked up in an hour of kobold guard duty today.

Are you confusing DPS with single strike damage or are you just confused in general?

[crazydamage]

My Fighter can't 1 shot the Minotaurs in the event, but he can take them each down in about 3 seconds. And my Fighter doesn't have any Epic gear except for the two items he picked up in an hour of kobold guard duty today.

Are you confusing DPS with single strike damage or are you just confused in general?

DPS is dmg per second measured against a target of your choice.

For the sake of argument you could pick a 50% fortified target with zero resistances to elements or a 0% fortified target with 0% resistances to elements.

Then u have at it with whatever spells/clickies/autoattacks/twitching or whatever the hell you want over X period of time (30 seconds would be an example of a time window), as obviously measuring dps over 2 seconds or 10 minutes isn't going to be very useful.

Using these parameters, a sorc by far out damages a dps, while they have mana.

The example of the minotaurs in the event is simply an extreme example showing just how much more DPS sorcs have than melees. A sorc can literally 1-2 shot an entire group of minotaurs whereas even the most geared dps toons have to walk up to each one individually and do 3+ swings.

[ferrite]

'Epic items should be BTC not BTA'

Why? Because its always been done that way? That's not a reason, that's an excuse. Just because something has always been done one way or another doesn't necessarily make it the best way.

Give one *valid* reason why these should be BTC and not BTA. If your only argument is one of 'being overpowered' or similar, that is a very weak argument indeed since each item carries a ML to even use.

[LolWutRoflstomped]

I made 13. Its too many.

[Ungood]

If you're planning on /ragequit over this little dagger breaking your game , can I have your stuff?

[mystafyi]

Who's a what, then?

Where can I get an ML1 +4 stat item out of Assault on Stormreach? I missed that when I was farming my Maiming Rocksplitters.

from the lvl 13 pack. its a ring that drops from the end reward for the chain. This ring is BtA and has no min lvl. Furthermore, the ring can have any attribute that normally can go on a level 9 item. i have gotten +20% striding, medium fort(with disease immune), +4 stat items and other various trash. Alas, i have not gotten heavy fort yet. This ring is not always in loot list, but i would say has 50-75% chance to be there.

[Gremmlynn]

I don't know if it "breaks the game", but that's a worthless answer for any game-breaking discussion.Granted, but in this case "game breaking" actually means cheesy, but avoidable. Personally I find the game filled with such (unbound gear, UMD, casual difficulty, etc.) and simply avoid it.

[Ungood]

So if you dont think that continuous free maximize is not game breaking, then what for you is game breaking

Whiners.

They can destroy a game faster then any made available gear ever could.

[Kirlian]

So you dont wear any other +X str item at lvl 4? You cant count a stat bonus as +1 dmg because you could easily have + str from an ioun stone or some other slot.
I guess nothing can be "game breaking" in the sense that DDO cannot be won or lost.
However if I make a sword that is +20 with 10d6 base dmg and 10-20 X4 crit , I guess its not "game breaking" for you is it?
So if you dont think that continuous free maximize is not game breaking, then what for you is game breaking

Negativity, trolls, idiots... etc.

[Carpone]

Congratulations!

You still don't do as much DPS as a melee.
Zing! +1.

[sparty55]

The game is apparently already broken cause anyone with the financial resources can already buy unlimited spell points (mana pots) from the DDO store.

[bashemgud]

Maybe, just ONCE, we could let casters have something decent out of the events?

Just saying.

[Khorban]

Cant NOOOOOOOObody keep a secret. gotta tell everybody everything they know!

and now that the Dev's know..... NERFSVILLE! UGH!

No WONDER yaw ain't Spies - YOU TELL EVERYTHING! :D

ha ha ha ha sorry....always wanted to do that :)

[broolthebeast]

stack as many daggers in your inventory as you want. If store bought sp potions didnt break the game, neither will this.

Do i think the item should of been exclusive from the start? yes

Am I going to carry more than 1? yeah probably 3 on my sorc and 3 on my cleric (3mins worth, not a lot of inventory)

People can drink sp pots all the way to completion as it is, this wont change anything. Bad players will still suck.