TRing into a bard - and need you help for thinking.

[Slippery_Steve]

Well i want to TR into a bard from a PL:Rogue, already crafted 3 greensteels for it and got fully gear for all the lvls.

But im still undecided about 1 thing - will I be 18bard/2rogue. Or fully 20bard.

The trade is going like this -

If im a 18Brd/2Rog - I trade my lvl 20 bard enhancement and 2 points of my starting charisma(i ll start with 16 instead of 18, because i need int for skills). But ill be able to disarm traps, search, spot, and open locks. Along with the evasion feat i get, and some SA damage.

The other trade(lvl20Brd) goes the same the other way around.

Im planning on being a spellsinger.
My question to you is - did i miss anything on my calculations? Do you guys have thoughts to share with me before i do so? I'll be happy to get opinions, even if its involving subjective personal taste.

[kaleid0star]

It all boils down to what your end game toon will be doing in raids/epics which is made even harder because a bard can practically do everything...

Ok so you want to take the Spell Singer PrE which usually people equate to bards that CC and occasionally/mostly heal because it synergizes well with those roles so starting with less than max char is already putting your end game DCs below average...

Ok so you want to splash 2 rogue for traps + evasion and such, that's ok but again you are losing out on the capstone which will go so well with the Spell singer PrE because of the added spell DCs and + to charisma among other things...

Better decide on what roles you want to focus on before you tr

[Slippery_Steve]

Well, i want to be a supportive bard. But ofcurse alittle support doesnt worth it if im trading my effectice offensive abilitys.

Can you write for me the DC ill need for being helpful against my foes? And can you write the differences between the DC ill get(~) if ill take 2 rogue and the DC for if ill go fully bard :)? that will be helpful.

[wax_on_wax_off]

If you want to be a spellsinger then I'd definitely suggest that you have to stay pure due to the DC bonus you get with the capstone.

Perhaps consider being half-elf and picking up half-elf dilttante: rogue for some extra damage? Half-orc is another choice considering the high THF damage at the cost of 1 DC from lower charisma. Power Attack and decent starting strength will let you contribute some melee DPS which is more than most spellsingers can say (who end up carrying scrolls full time often).

[kaleid0star]

Well, i want to be a supportive bard. But ofcurse alittle support doesnt worth it if im trading my effectice offensive abilitys.

Can you write for me the DC ill need for being helpful against my foes? And can you write the differences between the DC ill get(~) if ill take 2 rogue and the DC for if ill go fully bard :)? that will be helpful.

DC is calculated using your Base Casting Stat (charisma for bards) + any item bonuses you might have on you (includes but not limited to those +6 cha items, tomes, spell focus item like enchant) + feats (heighten, spell focus, greater spell focus) + spellsong trance (which gives +1 to your DCs)

in equation form:

10 + Spell Level + Casting Stat Modifier + Items + Feats = DC

As an example from the DDO wiki:

"Player A is a level 20 wizard casting Finger of Death, a level 7 Necromancy spell with a Fortitude Save. She has a 40 INT, for a +15 modifier. She has Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy, for +2 to DCs of her Necromancy spells. She is also wearing a Stormreaver's Napkin, for +1 to her DCs. She is using Heighten Spell to bring the level of the Finger of Death to level 9.

Plugging this into the above equation, we get:

10 + 9 (Spell Level with Heighten) + 15 (Modifier) + 1 (Napkin) + 2 (Feats) = 37

So the mob has to make a 37 Fortitude Save or die."

As for what DC you should be aiming for 40 is pretty much a safe number for epics, 37 or higher is just as good for everything else

[Slippery_Steve]

Thanks you for the info. I will aim for that.