Oh why the khopesh

[Alaudae]

Seems not recently there has not been a thread about the utter misery of khopeshi. It will not go away, it still dictates how we build characters, it is basically an egyptian bronze age sickle. Same with sica, rhompaia or falx. Devastating, but not too practical.
This far in game developement i have no idea what to do with them, had i the power.
If only AC meant something, and we had not The Only True Weapon.
I say, the tin needs a shakedown to be sensible in future too.

[NaturalHazard]

at least the SOS is not a khopesh.

[ragwa1]

at least the SOS is not a khopesh.

Or a falchion.

[SiliconShadow]

But the most poweful of them all is... the chaosblade

http://ddowiki.com/images/EpicChaosblade.jpg

[NaturalHazard]

But the most poweful of them all is... the chaosblade

http://ddowiki.com/images/EpicChaosblade.jpg

one blade to rule them all?

[A_Grate_Speller]

I agree. Why, in a game like this with such customization, is there a supreme weapon that has to be used or you get scoffed at (talking TWF of course)?

I don't know, I just know I have never built a toon with khopeshes in mind, only because I believe that there is potential in so many other things.

[toughguyjoe]

Play what you want, and build how you want. If you aren't terrible, you'll do fine. That's what this game is about for the real players. Make your toons, and be good. Your contribution is more important than what weapon you wield.

[Alaudae]

I understand khopesh has in dnd pnp some boni that are not so easy to do here. But even there, it is rarer than katanas. And those should be pretty rare in geography.
If there is somekind of backstory in Eberron for khopesheshi, that is cool. But i doubt any sane pnp author had made them so powerfull in plain damage.
Purely rulewise, they should be akin to bastardswords or dwarven axes.
Which both do not work as they should, according to dnd :)

[silvertrit]

Historicly speaking khopesh's are the weapon that conquored many a nation in ancient times. And why varity ? Their is varity but their is supermacy in dps builds styles. I mean it requires Martial, ontop of a exotic weapons feat. So dont you think it should be better then a normal sword?


sorry for typos in a rsuh

[Alaudae]

Yes, they should be better, they require a feat. It is question about the amount of it.
And, of course, building for flavour is cool, in my limited time perhaps half of my characters are rp/flavour.
It is just like asking to be content with baseball bat as your weapon compared to rather good sword. Yes, both do kill.

Edit: You probaly mean hellenion kopis, that weapon did conquer rather large part of the known world. Khopesh was egyptian, and rather good sword it was. But conquests of Egypt were in the end limited to Syria.
Edit more: I really hope i do not sound obnoxious with this.

[wolflordnexus]

Yay Nerf Kopesh then we can complain about Scimitars being better than bastard swords then they can nerf that and we can move on to rapiers. There's going to be a best DPS weapon there just is I'd much prefer they made BS worth a feat than nerf the Kopesh. allowing glancing blows with shield was nice and all but it didn't help. Making it work with TWF would help but that's a heck of a lot of feats required. Personally I think giving them 2hander reach would be a good direction to go something besides MOAR DPS they just need a niche. DWA has a good niche BS really is the Child that was left behind.

[Alaudae]

There is nothing wrong with bastardsword, there is quite a lot wrong with khopesh.
It should not be hard to see, basically to be efficient, you are expected to wield khopeshi.
Numbers...

[PopeJual]

If you don't want to weild a Khopesh, you could always just jump to a Heavy Pick or a Greataxe/Falchion weilder.

I hear that there's some Greatsword somewhere that has a better crit profile than a Khopesh, too.

[pSINNa]

I vaguely recall some comparisons to dps with khopesh versus dwarven axe that had the two come very close.


Khopesh requires a feat, dwarven axe doesn't require a feat if you're a dwarf (with martial proficiency).


Meh, i have toons that swing both ways, but a little variety in 'ultimate dps' would be nice.


Then again, there are a few epic weapons that jump all over both of them (only a few), maybe it's not too bad after all.


I dunno, maybe it's ok as it is, but a couple more 'top dps' options would be nice i must admit, just for variety. xD.

Coit out~

[Rineth]

There is nothing wrong with bastardsword, there is quite a lot wrong with khopesh.
It should not be hard to see, basically to be efficient, you are expected to wield khopeshi.
Numbers...

It sounds like your complaint is more with player's expectations than with the weapon itself...

[sephiroth1084]

There is nothing wrong with bastardsword, there is quite a lot wrong with khopesh.

Untrue. The bastard sword has never been a worthwhile use of a feat. Not in PnP, and not in DDO. We generally favor crit profile over base damage, due to the very high damage numbers and many special effects we can bring to bear with our attacks and crits, so spending a feat on a weapon with a worse crit profile than a scimitar and only a slight boost in base damage (2 point increase on average) is a bad idea.

Bastard swords are only competing against khopeshes because they both require an exotic weapon proficiency feat, but in reality they are competing against scimitars, dwarven axes and even longswords.

Scimitars and dwarven axes (and picks in some situations) are close enough to khopesh that they make taking the feat not a necessity. If you really want bastard swords to look good, they need to be buffed.

Nerfing khopeshes will only serve to free up a feat slot for a lot of characters and make a lot of people very unhappy. If you spend a feat to gain a weapon proficiency, you should be gaining something really special. The bastard sword is not.

[jakeelala]

khopesh isn't much better than an elf with scimitar and enhancements or drow with rapiers and enhancements EXCEPT for 2 things:

All bursting effects can be the same on high end versions due to greensteel
COUPLED WITH
End game content is Epic which means 90% of the time you're beating on auto-crit which puts Khopesh in the lead since the advantage to the others was due to them critting more.

Change epic, charging a feat for a very SLIGHTLY better weapon in the hands of races that don't get racial weapon enhancements is not a big deal. Again, FIX EPIC.

And the eSoS, which is a stupid joke.

[sephiroth1084]

khopesh isn't much better than an elf with scimitar and enhancements or drow with rapiers and enhancements EXCEPT for 2 things:

All bursting effects can be the same on high end versions due to greensteel
COUPLED WITH
End game content is Epic which means 90% of the time you're beating on auto-crit which puts Khopesh in the lead since the advantage to the others was due to them critting more.

Change epic, charging a feat for a very SLIGHTLY better weapon in the hands of races that don't get racial weapon enhancements is not a big deal. Again, FIX EPIC.

And the eSoS, which is a stupid joke.
Unless you're a Kensai, you could use your racial weapon vs. non-held stuff, and picks for held monsters, and other than the inconvenience of having to carry more weapons and of the slowness in swapping them, you end up slightly behind khopesh or slightly ahead of it, which sort of equates to being even.

[grodon9999]

khopesh isn't much better than an elf with scimitar and enhancements or drow with rapiers and enhancements EXCEPT for 2 things:

All bursting effects can be the same on high end versions due to greensteel
COUPLED WITH
End game content is Epic which means 90% of the time you're beating on auto-crit which puts Khopesh in the lead since the advantage to the others was due to them critting more.

If the racial APs went up to +4 To-hit/damage and were much CHEAPER then they are now it'd be fine.



Change epic, charging a feat for a very SLIGHTLY better weapon in the hands of races that don't get racial weapon enhancements is not a big deal. Again, FIX EPIC.

And the eSoS, which is a stupid joke.

Agreed.

[NaturalHazard]

If they ever put gnomes in, would they ever get racial enhancements with picks?

[Alabore]

I'm inclined to say the problem with khopesh is at least twofold.
First, bad foresight on devs' part - making it better than it was in pnp.
Second, changing critting mechanics so all modifiers get multiplied - not just the dmg dice.
That is the biggest departure from pnp - and the reason people are so enthusiastic about khopesh, and favourable crit profiles in general.

[sephiroth1084]

I'm inclined to say the problem with khopesh is at least twofold.
First, bad foresight on devs' part - making it better than it was in pnp. It probably wouldn't be worth a feat if it were designed the way it is in PnP, the same way that the bastard sword isn't worth a feat.


Second, changing critting mechanics so all modifiers get multiplied - not just the dmg dice.
That is the biggest departure from pnp - and the reason people are so enthusiastic about khopesh, and favourable crit profiles in general.
You're incorrect. Any damage that is a static number (not rolled dice), except for the weapon's dice, gets multiplied in PnP. Weapon Specialization, weapon enhancement bonus, smite evil, Power Attack...all multiplied on crits. This is one of the things DDO is true to.

The difference between DDO and PnP is just that our modifiers to damage scale up much higher than in PnP (usually). It's rather unlikely in PnP to be getting +70 damage on your attacks while still hitting frequently. There are exceptions, though, and they are even more abusive in PnP (like the frenzied berserker, getting Power Attack of 4xpenalty, that takes the feat--can't recall name--from Complete Warrior that lets you drop your AC instead of your attack bonus when Power Attacking, resulting in well over 100 damage per swing).

The lower your total bonuses are, the more important base weapon stats become. The higher the bonus, the more important critical profile is. In both PnP and DDO, for example, paladins favor weapons with a bigger crit range to ones with higher base damage, or even higher multiplier, since their smites are limited, and they benefit much more from getting as many of their smites to crit as possible.

[Alabore]

It probably wouldn't be worth a feat if it were designed the way it is in PnP, the same way that the bastard sword isn't worth a feat.

As an aside: I'll admit I don't quite like the whole "worth a feat" concept.
It was supposed to be a ROLE-playing game. Not a ROLL-playing game.

...

Ok, I got that one out of my system.

;)





You're incorrect. Any damage that is a static number (not rolled dice), except for the weapon's dice, gets multiplied in PnP. Weapon Specialization, weapon enhancement bonus, smite evil, Power Attack...all multiplied on crits. This is one of the things DDO is true to.

I checked d20SRD to be sure, and it had a different rule wording to what I was first exposed to.
My DMs took a very conservative approach, and only allowed extra dice to be rolled, without multiplying the static part.

[sephiroth1084]

As an aside: I'll admit I don't quite like the whole "worth a feat" concept.
It was supposed to be a ROLE-playing game. Not a ROLL-playing game.

... What role-playing is there in using a bastard sword? What role-playing is there in using a bastard sword that you couldn't RP in the same way with a longsword?

Role-playing has nothing to do with this part of the game. If your RP desires trump the mechanics, then you've made a different sort of choice, but don't bring role-playing into the discussion like somehow the game isn't also based around mathematics to a degree. Do they cooler? To some, yes. If cool looks for you are greater than utility and efficiency, that's your prerogative. One of the great things about D&D, and DDO, is that it caters to a wide range of people: the min/maxers, the munchkins, the role-players, the rules lawyers, the Evernoobs(TM), the people who just really enjoy rolling dice...



I checked d20SRD to be sure, and it had a different rule wording to what I was first exposed to.
My DMs took a very conservative approach, and only allowed extra dice to be rolled, without multiplying the static part.
In my first Pen and Paper game, my DM had us roll for spells. He misread the text about how you need to have an ability score of 10+spell level in order to cast a spell as being a check you needed to roll whenever you tried casting, so you had to hit d20+ability modifier to equal 10+spell level in order to cast a spell. There were a lot of failures, some really comical.

Whether your DMs were being conservative, or misread the rules, or were working from an older set, I don't know, but DDO is pretty true to PnP in that aspect at least.

[Alabore]

Don't bring role-playing into the discussion like somehow the game isn't also based around mathematics to a degree.

We could argue it wasn't always like this.
We could also argue that crunching some numbers is a thing, being forced to manage finite resources is another.

...

We could argue.
I won't.

;)

[wolflordnexus]

We could argue it wasn't always like this.
We could also argue that crunching some numbers is a thing, being forced to manage finite resources is another.

...

We could argue.
I won't.

;)

Ummn no you really cant argue that math is not a huge part of D&D. D&D was derived from chain mail a tactics game based on numbers and probability aka math so there's always been math in a game. From a game mechanics standpoint it's completely indefensible that most exotic weapons are strictly worse than some martial weapons. We don't even want to get started into how light hammer a martial weapon is inferior in every way to light maces a simple weapon.

[bryanmeerkat]

In a min/max environment variety and choice will dictate a top of the pile and a bottom of the pile .
If Khopesh was nerfed to x2 or some other nerf the everyone would just use the next best weapon instead

[blitzschlag]

In a min/max environment variety and choice will dictate a top of the pile and a bottom of the pile .
If Khopesh was nerfed to x2 or some other nerf the everyone would just use the next best weapon instead

actually i (and probably lots of others) would just quit because there is no way i could be arsed to regrind the mats.

still it was good for 4.x years now and is not subject to change no matter how many whiney bastard-sword-lover posts appear (not aimed at you op)...

[FuzzyDuck81]

Just go with weapons you like - not having the absolute highest dps isnt the gamebreaker people think, it just means you need a little more skill & time. I've decided to make one of my alts a gurkha-themed tempest/fighter/rogue who uses kukris, just because.

[Satinavian]

yup,

in PnP most weapons are balanced around +1 crit range (or +1 multiplier, if the range is 20) is worth 2 points in damage-range (or one change in dice-size) or one positive special effect. Simple weapons are one of these behind martial weapons which are one behind exotic weapons.

These are the guidelines and they work more or less. There are some exceptions (like greataxes behind behind .5 in base damage compared to greatswords without having higher critchances, also some strange things with weapon-stats for sizes not small or normal).

This works more or less for most PnP games, especially in low and mid-level range. But as sephiroth explained well, the higher the mods, the more useful critrange and multiplier over base damage. In DDO most people care only about high-level content, raids and epics. And those, that are most interested in numbercrunching, tend to have ridiculous high boni to damage. So it is not exactly surprising, that Kopeshes get so much attention.


For an undergeared, low-level character, a khopesh might even be a suboptimal choice, not worth a feat.

[elujin]

Yay Nerf Kopesh then we can complain about Scimitars being better than bastard swords then they can nerf that and we can move on to rapiers. There's going to be a best DPS weapon there just is I'd much prefer they made BS worth a feat than nerf the Kopesh. allowing glancing blows with shield was nice and all but it didn't help. Making it work with TWF would help but that's a heck of a lot of feats required. Personally I think giving them 2hander reach would be a good direction to go something besides MOAR DPS they just need a niche. DWA has a good niche BS really is the Child that was left behind.

balance is in posible so most mmos just switch whats top .
with gs crafting how ever that would be mean verry mean and ddo isn't most mmo's

personaly i got no probs with khopesh just with some players whos say you need a khopesh to build a good toon
outher weapons are good too most anyways BS is a bit left out unless for tanking builds mebey longswords and many outhers but whats wrong with simitars DA rapiers .

especialy newer toon should just take on of the above +5flamingburst simitar of pg is still better then a +2 khopesh if thats all what you can afford.

[Anthios888]

OP you have changed my mind let me destroy these 2 dozen various greensteel khopeshes and epic chaosblades.

I would hate for my DDO toons to fail to live up to your standards for real life melee combat !! Not practical enough. Egyptian weapons?! They had a revolution, right? Should I use hammer and sickle now or what?

Nerf me please I thought I was having fun but I was so wrong!

[blitzschlag]

OP you have changed my mind let me destroy these 2 dozen various greensteel khopeshes and epic chaosblades.

I would hate for my DDO toons to fail to live up to your standards for real life melee combat !! Not practical enough. Egyptian weapons?! They had a revolution, right? Should I use hammer and sickle now or what?

Nerf me please I thought I was having fun but I was so wrong!


the main problem is that your khopeshes are made of copper, at best of bronze. now imagine what a ak47 would do to you...

[Anthios888]

the main problem is that your khopeshes are made of copper, at best of bronze. now imagine what a ak47 would do to you...

cometfall > ak47 > greensteel > bronze

[Torebro]

I am not a big fan of khopeshs (IMO, they look ugly, that's all I don't like :rolleyes:).

Well, I was thinking ho to make the other weapons more common/nerfing the khopesh.

Messing around with the crit profile of khopeshs would anger so many players and probably make the weapon obsolete. So they can't do it.

Other things I thought about was:
- disallow khopeshs as an offhand weapon - No, simply no
- give Khopesh a -2 to hit which cannot be overcome by any means, therefore you have a -4 to hit when dual wielding Khopeshs. This way newer players will have difficulties hitting stuff with khopeshs, but it still would be the weapon of choice for veterans, characters with the right gear. Dunno if this really looks that good to me, as it could increase drama and whining.

The easiest solution that came to my mind was:

Give mobs fortification. It really is strange that almost every character >10 (at least the ones, that know how to play this game) have 100% Fortification, but all trash mobs have 0% fortification or are immune (undead, golems).
Especially in epics this is more than strange, all these mobs must have piked their whole life to hit that level with 0% fortification :D.
Giving some/all trash mobs in amrath/reaver/vale?/epics 25% fortification (maybe reducing the HPs to compensate?), maybe excluding caster. This will favor a weapon with a higher base damage (Daxe, Elf wielding Scimitar/Rapiers, Bastard Sword) and wouldn't mess with the weapons itself.

Also I would like to have the racial bonus changed for weapons to +3 or +4 max, and reduced the costs to 1/2/3(/4) APs.

Regards Tore

[blitzschlag]

cometfall > ak47 > greensteel > bronze

i bet your cometfall jams when youre full of sand ;)

[Anthios888]

i bet your cometfall jams when youre full of sand ;)

don't mess you can't touch it

http://www.newprophecy.net/Comet_McNaught_as_seen_from_Chile_19_January_2007. jpg > http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/26/l_4df609745c0b9c256d6f509b0d76712d.jpg

I win at the internets

[Doxmaster]

People on the forums seem to make a big deal over Kopeshes. Optimum DPS this, max damage that, blah, blah. We only make up about 5% of the games population, if our numbers are even that high...furthermore, these are the same guys using +4 cha tomes for their ranger builds. They dont care, because they have 14 more banked and 5 of those arent bound to account. We brag, we flaunt, we do tricks, we break class sterotypes and we do amazing things...and it doesnt mean a thing to 95% of the game population.

In the game, most people will only notice:
a-you are doing well, or doing poorly in your 'role'
b-You are squishy/dying or not squishy/dying
c-You are going against your 'proper' role, or doing your proper role
d-Things are moving slowly, or moving quickly

Even half-noobs dont care whether you are using kopeshes; have you ever seen an lfm say "Link your Min2/lit2 kopesh" for a shroud run? No. "Link boss beater." while still pathetic for level 20s, is pretty much the only serious "item link" request.

The whole "Max DPS, MAX CC, MAX HJEAL or GTFO!" thing is basically in forumite's heads. People do want the highest of those things, but most wouldnt think twice if you exclusively use Heavy Picks, or wield 1 kopesh, or your cleric uses Enlarge to ninja-heal so long as the DPS is doing good DPS, the casters are hasting/rage/blurring and hjealarz are healing.

[blitzschlag]

don't mess you can't touch it

http://www.newprophecy.net/Comet_McNaught_as_seen_from_Chile_19_January_2007. jpg > http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/26/l_4df609745c0b9c256d6f509b0d76712d.jpg

I win at the internets

well, if you continue using tracer ammunition you won't be spamming cometfalls for long :p

[elujin]

I am not a big fan of khopeshs (IMO, they look ugly, that's all I don't like :rolleyes:).

Well, I was thinking ho to make the other weapons more common/nerfing the khopesh.

Messing around with the crit profile of khopeshs would anger so many players and probably make the weapon obsolete. So they can't do it.

Other things I thought about was:
- disallow khopeshs as an offhand weapon - No, simply no
- give Khopesh a -2 to hit which cannot be overcome by any means, therefore you have a -4 to hit when dual wielding Khopeshs. This way newer players will have difficulties hitting stuff with khopeshs, but it still would be the weapon of choice for veterans, characters with the right gear. Dunno if this really looks that good to me, as it could increase drama and whining.

The easiest solution that came to my mind was:

Give mobs fortification. It really is strange that almost every character >10 (at least the ones, that know how to play this game) have 100% Fortification, but all trash mobs have 0% fortification or are immune (undead, golems).
Especially in epics this is more than strange, all these mobs must have piked their whole life to hit that level with 0% fortification :D.
Giving some/all trash mobs in amrath/reaver/vale?/epics 25% fortification (maybe reducing the HPs to compensate?), maybe excluding caster. This will favor a weapon with a higher base damage (Daxe, Elf wielding Scimitar/Rapiers, Bastard Sword) and wouldn't mess with the weapons itself.

Also I would like to have the racial bonus changed for weapons to +3 or +4 max, and reduced the costs to 1/2/3(/4) APs.

Regards Tore

variations in monsters would help but then rogs get the boot again it would bring caster dps up to level
and mebey you can make fort breaking items
and buff up the rog preciesion feat a bit

[protokon]

fix kamas. crit range 20/x2 is just plain pathetic :/

[Brennie]

A possible "Fix" to kopesh would be to make them a 1d8(1d10?) 18-20/x2. They would still outclass every other weapon in terms of "against crittable enemies", but not by as much. Whether they would be worth a feat would be debatable (And for Drow or Elves teh answer woudl be a resounding No, since you could get as good or better damage with Rapiers/Scimmies). They would also fill the currently missing niche of "Exotic weapon with wide crit range"

However, any change to Kopesh crit range/multiplier would be met by a scream of outrage from the player community, so I'm frankly not even sure i endorse my own idea!

Also, side note: Kopesh are not always the best. Heavy Picks are better for autocrit situations, and Scimitars/rapiers are better at applying "on crit" effects (Like Smiting. Got to love a rapier of smiting). Granted that leaves Kopesh better in every other situation... but still :D

[Natashaelle]

Weapons experts I have seen commenting on ancient weaponry have stated that the basic "Longsword" -type weapon is the most effective ancient/medieval mêlée weapon -- even the much praised Katana is basically a Longsword with an extended grip allowing it to be wielded 2-handed.

There is very good reason why the Longsword is the most commonly available weapon type in the game, D&D + DDO alike :)

[Franke]

fix kamas. crit range 20/x2 is just plain pathetic :/


:)

[licho]

A possible "Fix" to kopesh would be to make them a 1d8(1d10?) 18-20/x2. They would still outclass every other weapon in terms of "against crittable enemies", but not by as much. Whether they would be worth a feat would be debatable (And for Drow or Elves teh answer woudl be a resounding No, since you could get as good or better damage with Rapiers/Scimmies). They would also fill the currently missing niche of "Exotic weapon with wide crit range"


Some wise words here.
Khopesh k10 18-20/x2 (uberscimitar)
BS k10 19-20/x3
DA k10 19-20/x2 but free for Dwarves.

That way each ExW will have some adv.

[mystafyi]

cant nerf khopesh at this late stage(without allowing for GS deconstruct)...
what turbine 'could' do is give all elite and epic trash mobs some sort of fortification.

Not sure why high level mobs are still running around with 0% fort like level 1 toons fresh off the boat.

[Uhtred_Stark]

The scimitar is superior to the khopesh in every way. How? First, u will use a real sword(granted, subjective). Second, u don't have to spend a feat. Third, the scimitar does amazing dps with the superior crit range.

[blitzschlag]

Not sure why high level mobs are still running around with 0% fort like level 1 toons fresh off the boat.

probably the same cause why lvl 20 hirelings got 80hp and no fort and the premade paths are still beyond ****...

[Standal]

Some wise words here.
Khopesh k10 18-20/x2 (uberscimitar)
BS k10 19-20/x3
DA k10 19-20/x2 but free for Dwarves.

That way each ExW will have some adv.

Didn't you just make BS the new khopesh with greater base damage (so even worse) and DA the new bastard sword?

[blitzschlag]

Didn't you just make BS the new khopesh with greater base damage (so even worse)

yeah, but thats just normal for a (apparently) new ddo guy with d&d background.

soon he will be in the phase of: bs are better because theyre cheaper on ah
or : khopesh is **** because all use em

[Sutekx]

Bah, nerf the Khopesh and overpower the shuriken!

[Kindoki]

It sounds like your complaint is more with player's expectations than with the weapon itself...

This. Khopesh is superior, but not so much so that it is a 'must have'.

I assume, if someone can't get over the fact that I am not wielding dual khopesh, that is a good hint to me that I probably don't need to run with them.

[PopeJual]

yeah, but thats just normal for a (apparently) new ddo guy with d&d background.

soon he will be in the phase of: bs are better because theyre cheaper on ah
or : khopesh is **** because all use em

I actually do have some sympathy for this.

If I were creating a new character on a new server with all of my current DDO experience, I'd take Bastard Sword instead of Khopesh on a TWF melee until I crafted a Greensteel weapon. I'd also be rolling in plat because I know to sell Vials of Pure Water and Fragrant Drowshoods, etc., but there are so many things to buy as a first character on a new server that I'd still be happy to save the cash and weild Bastard Swords instead of Khopeshes at first.

Once I have the Greensteel crafted, though - it's off to Fred to erase those filthy memories of my Bastard Sword weilding days and download a Khopesh training module from Morpheus.

Also, I'd probably have a nice Bastard Sword and Tower Shield set as a THF melee because there are a few times when sword and board actually make sense (just not very often...). I certainly wouldn't take the proficiency, though. I can still hit what I need to hit even with a -4 added on.

[Justicesar]

Step away from Khopesh debate reaaaaaaal slow an nobody gets hurt lol....

[blitzschlag]

I actually do have some sympathy for this.

If I were creating a new character on a new server with all of my current DDO experience, I'd take Bastard Sword instead of Khopesh on a TWF melee until I crafted a Greensteel weapon. I'd also be rolling in plat because I know to sell Vials of Pure Water and Fragrant Drowshoods, etc., but there are so many things to buy as a first character on a new server that I'd still be happy to save the cash and weild Bastard Swords instead of Khopeshes at first.

Once I have the Greensteel crafted, though - it's off to Fred to erase those filthy memories of my Bastard Sword weilding days and download a Khopesh training module from Morpheus.

Also, I'd probably have a nice Bastard Sword and Tower Shield set as a THF melee because there are a few times when sword and board actually make sense (just not very often...). I certainly wouldn't take the proficiency, though. I can still hit what I need to hit even with a -4 added on.


can agree here. but why not just go for longsword or scimitar on a new server? they drop like flies. no need for a feat and a proper weapon for a new player...

[PopeJual]

can agree here. but why not just go for longsword or scimitar on a new server? they drop like flies. no need for a feat and a proper weapon for a new player...

Mostly because even +5 Metalline Bastard Swords of Pure Good and +1 Paralyzers and +X Vorpals are dirt cheap.

I gots to have my twink items. Even if I don't actually end up using Vorpals until Amrath.


If I were actually going to jump to a new sever, though, I'd probably just roll up a new WF Wizard, level up to 5 and then see if I can beg my way into a couple of Colonscope loot runs. 5 Colonscope items + Superior Inferno clicky + (regular/Greater/Major) Fire Lore will solve most of the problems that I run into in most quests.

And for Melee, going THF means just crafting a LitII Greataxe and a Pos/Pos Maul instead of trying to gather up 48 Large ingredients to make a pair of decent weapons, so I'd probably run up a THF Fighter or Barbarian or Fighter/Barbarian alongside the Wizard.

It's funny how knowing the cheap and easy answers to common problems in DDO makes so much more of a difference than squeezing out that last 2% of DPS from your gear. I know I still have a ton more to learn, though.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Personally, I want to see the name and graphics of all Kopeshes changed to "Katana".
And I wouldn't even mind a slight boost in base damage to make it more how the Katana was in other D&D settings.

Kopesh is a stupid weapon. That does not deserve to be the best. The Katana at least has the respect of most sword enthusiests, and is a much better looking weapon IMO.

[grodon9999]

Personally, I want to see the name and graphics of all Kopeshes changed to "Katana".
And I wouldn't even mind a slight boost in base damage to make it more how the Katana was in other D&D settings.

Kopesh is a stupid weapon. That does not deserve to be the best. The Katana at least has the respect of most sword enthusiests, and is a much better looking weapon IMO.

I could live with that.

[sephiroth1084]

A possible "Fix" to kopesh would be to make them a 1d8(1d10?) 18-20/x2. They would still outclass every other weapon in terms of "against crittable enemies", but not by as much. Whether they would be worth a feat would be debatable (And for Drow or Elves teh answer woudl be a resounding No, since you could get as good or better damage with Rapiers/Scimmies). They would also fill the currently missing niche of "Exotic weapon with wide crit range"

However, any change to Kopesh crit range/multiplier would be met by a scream of outrage from the player community, so I'm frankly not even sure i endorse my own idea!

Also, side note: Kopesh are not always the best. Heavy Picks are better for autocrit situations, and Scimitars/rapiers are better at applying "on crit" effects (Like Smiting. Got to love a rapier of smiting). Granted that leaves Kopesh better in every other situation... but still :D
Actually. I'd just give the bastard sword an 18-20 crit range and call it a day.

Then you'd have a choice between:
lower base damage, average range, average multiplier and
higher base damage, good range, poor multiplier

[Quarterling]

If they ever put gnomes in, would they ever get racial enhancements with picks?

Oh, what if gnomes got the racial ability of increasing a pick's critical multiplier (maybe even by 2 for a second tier)? Then we could see some gnome Kensai fighters with x6 (or x7!) picks.

Too bad monks become uncentered when using picks though, you could then get a x7 (or x8!) crit on the earth earth earth finisher.

[PopeJual]

Oh, what if gnomes got the racial ability of increasing a pick's critical multiplier (maybe even by 2 for a second tier)? Then we could see some gnome Kensai fighters with x6 (or x7!) picks.

Too bad monks become uncentered when using picks though, you could then get a x7 (or x8!) crit on the earth earth earth finisher.

18-20/x6 would be just a little unbalanced. Just a teeny-tiny little bit.

Even ignoring autocrit, that would be 15 points of critical profile. Epic SoS has only 12 points in most hands (14 points of critical range in the hands of a Greatsword specced Kensai III).

[yawumpus]

Is that while you are all happily nerfing khopeshes, turbine has long since nerfed TWF.

Any min/maxer left holding his now gimped khopeshes would have to LR (due to holding way to many build points in worthless dexterity) or simply reroll (such a move would gimp rangers completely). All the min/maxers who have already pulled SoSs or crafted greensteel greataxes/falchions would wave them in celebrations of (short lived) superiority.

Then turbine would have to rebalance TWF vs THF yet again, and all of Xendrik would worry about their builds.

[Alabore]

Ummn no you really cant argue that math is not a huge part of D&D.

I'm not really in the mood to argue, but that wasn't what I said.

:)

Maths has an important place in D&D rules, but not all editions put the same emphasis in character options and optimisation.
Some even encouraged players to see low stats not just as flaws, but as a role-playing challenge, as a means to flesh flaws out as character quirks.

...

DDO clearly puts a strong emphasis on number crunching - it's driven by both numbers and twitch.
The old D&D motto was you win by playing.
DDO has no such thing, you win when you complete the quest.
We could argue you never actually win, since you usually end up reincarnating the same character, and run the same quests all over again.
Considering characters don't actually die, but they revert back to STONES, it reminds me of some kind of Valhalla...

But I'm rambling...

...

Back on topic: I briefly tried Khopesh, I saw why it was considered good, and I tweaked some of my characters to wield one. Or two.
But I didn't try to shoehorn one where it didn't feel "right".
I tend to do "internal role-play", that is I try to pick feats, gear and classes that fit with the mental image I had of a given char.
Of course, as I learnt more about DDO, I found out some archetypes worked better than others.
And I started considering some class combos I would have never touched in pnp.
My DMs had an [un]healthy dislike for what they considered "powergaming", and that dislike has rubbed off a bit.

...

I am not sure how devs could rebalance weapons.
Big crits help vs high HP foes. High HP foes must pose a challenge for big critting chars.
Vicious cycle.

Maybe retooling AC to be meaningful at higher level contents, without significant grind, could provide players with a broader spectrum of choices.
Finesse would be more viable, and a big critting weapon would be useless if your hits failed to connect.

...

As another aside: /not signed on katana.
Please don't give devs ideas; they already tried giving half elves anime looks...

;)

[Zargarx]

Why is the Khopesh anything but a flavor weapon?
Ask 1000 random people what that is, and maybe 1 might know.
It should not be the best overall one-handed weapon in the game. It shouldn't even be in the top 3.
It should have had a crit profile of 20-20 x3.
Of course nothing will change.

[pSINNa]

I have had this khopesh since i was a child!

There are many like it, but this one is mine!

Hands off my khopesh!


(I only have one toon that uses the khopesh, but he has an unnatural relationship with his curved piece of lime oxide, leave his ubie stick alone!)

Coit out~

[Chai]

I agree its lame to break the rules for one weapon type and make it the only generic weapon type that has a x3 -and- also is 19-20. They had to make a weapon that is THF 5d6 damage 18-20 x3 (post nerf) just to beat a TWF khopesh because of this screw up early in the game which made khopesh OP. -LeFail.

The time to realize this and nerf it of course is long gone, now that nine bajillion greensteel khopesh have been made.