Assassination should be ranged

[cypan41]

Ok. Other than Caesar, can anyone think of an assassination that was done with a melee type weapon? Everyone that my guildies and I came up with were done at a distance.
I'm ok with having to be in sneak mode, but ranged should DEFINITELY be able to be used with this skill.

[DyninScott]

I thought you could as long as you were in close with the ranged weapon, I know rouge vorpal strikes work with a ranged weapon. If it doesn't that doesn't make sense.

[Sinni]

and how many giants have been killed by fireballs thrown by a wizard? or shouldn't an electricity spell shot to a surface of water damage everyone who is standing in the water?

what i want to say is: coupling real life stuff (be it physics or events) with a fantasy game is a bad idea. A game needs to take care of balancing, real life doesn't.

[Der_Incubo]

Ok. Other than Caesar, can anyone think of an assassination that was done with a melee type weapon? Everyone that my guildies and I came up with were done at a distance.
I'm ok with having to be in sneak mode, but ranged should DEFINITELY be able to be used with this skill.

Id say defenstration and poisoning have probably been the method of assassination used most throughout history.

[Uska]

Disagree it should be an up close and personal thing and ranged could be over powering now you should be able to use a ranged weapon but still have to be say no farther than 30' and yes agents have often assasinated people up close and personal ever hear of ricin pellets from a umbrella enjector

[sephiroth1084]

I'm sure there have been numerous assassinations throughout history with melee weapons. Getting "stabbed in the back" isn't a merely figurative cliche. Also, just because the ability is named 'Assassinate' doesn't mean it is necessarily aimed at killing a high-value target. Murdering someone in an alleyway with one stab definitely falls under the application of this ability as well.

[Bekki]

Ok. Other than Caesar, can anyone think of an assassination that was done with a melee type weapon? Everyone that my guildies and I came up with were done at a distance.
I'm ok with having to be in sneak mode, but ranged should DEFINITELY be able to be used with this skill.

First let me say I agree, I would love to have the option to
Assasinate from range... IE: (Deep Woods Sniper.)
But I don't see it happening any time soon...
That would put ALOT of power into the hands of a rogue...
It make ranged rogue assassins ridiculously powerful...
So it could be very tough to implement fairly...

But to answer your first Question....

The Russian leader Leon Trotsky. The Former Russian Premier before Lenin...

He was killed with a Mountain Climbing Ice Pick. ;)

[Alektronic]

We can/will be able to assassinate from a distance with the DWS PrE. Unfortunately, it's still at first tier, but compared to Assassin I, I'd say it already kicks butt. That being said, I think it's fine that there is that distinction between snipers and assassins.

[Dexxaan]

I'm sorry you and your guild couldn't envision how many Assassinations were done by Melee vs Ranged (are you thinking JFK??? or Ancient Greece? :rolleyes: )

Thread requests like this one are the type that put me at risk of geting temp-banned from forums.


Please refrain from tempting me, and porobably many others.


And yes I have an Assassin build.


.

[Doomcrew]

How many folks were assassinated by range in medieval times?

[Hordo]

I know rouge vorpal strikes work ...

Rouge vorpal strikes...killer make-up brought to you by Mata Hari, the brand name cosmetic for all assassins.
:D

[Yaga_Nub]

no.

[camels]

julius caesar comes to mind.. also ninjas in japan




my friend in new york city was killed by a man with a switch blade knife
For forty three dollars my friend lost his life.

[thwart]

How about Jesus ... no ranged weapons used there.


Edited to add: Nevermind ... that was an execution and not really an assassination.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

D&D weaponry is based on medeival technology. Sniper rifles hadn't been invented yet, and ranged accuracy was not very accurate. Not by today's standards anyway.

Assassin III does work with ranged weps I believe.

Crossbows were considered deadly enough to be an assassin's weapon I think. But D&D has never given crossbows enough power in this game. :(


Rogues are not ranged based chars.
But I would argue that ranged need improvement for all chars. Afantasy Rogue or Ninja can one shot kill with a throwing dagger. So can Conan. Why can't we?


My hope is that DeeepWoods Sniper II and III will have a ranged one shot kill ability in there somewhere.....not much of a sniper if you can't kill at range IMO.

[Jonny_D]

John Lennon
Abraham Lincoln
Jack Ruby
all shot but at close range those were 3 I thought of in the time it took me to read to the bottom of your thread.

[Khanyth]

/not signed

If you want to assassinate something, roll an arcane and give mobs the middle finger of death (I call it that, because in my very early days of DDO, I ran with a caster who, whenever he casted and killed a mob, called it that and said that he gave the middle finger to his monitor)

[Bunker]

This ability is a rogue ability that is based off of sneak attack. Therefore being in sneak attack range is a requirement. Should there be a "long ranged" similar ability? Maybe..... but not for a rogue.

Perhaps this would be a good idea if made to work properly for Deepwoodsniper III.

[Qezuzu]

Because of guns and sniper rifles, most modern, high-profile assassinations are done at range.

Google it.

[Illiain]

How about instead of allowing assassination at range, they fix the useless tier1 poison.

Namely by removing them and replacing them with the spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm) assassins would normally have in the pnp version. Make them times/shrine clickies similar to how Human Versatility works.

Or work outside of the box and give us back the stacking seeker bonuses we used to have and just remove poisons. The poisons are useless for anything you would want to use them on. They only give you a +2 bonus to hit while sneak attacking and +20 to confirm crits that you should be confirming on a 1 anyhow.

[Bekki]

John Lennon
Abraham Lincoln*
Jack Ruby
all shot but at close range those were 3 I thought of in the time it took me to read to the bottom of your thread.

Ah... But did you read the initial Question...?


Ok. Other than Caesar, can anyone think of an assassination that was done with a melee type weapon? Everyone that my guildies and I came up with were done at a distance.


shot at Close range = Ranged... or 'at a distance'... :p

* Points up to his previous post...

Leon Trotsky. Former Russian Premier before Lenin...

An Assassin was hired to get close to Trotsky...
Which he did... By sharing in his love of Mountain Climbing...

Then one Night After they returned from a Climbing trip...
He crept up behind him, While he rested in his chair reading at his home
In Mexico... And struck him in the head with a Mountain Climbing Ice pick.

Trotsky Died a day later...

You can read more about it here...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Trotsky?wasRedirected=true

Now that is what I call... "With a melee weapon..." ;)

[Quarterling]

Anybody that has tried to sneak attack with a ranged weapon knows that you must be unbelievably close in order to get your SA damage. It says "within 30 feet", but I swear that I'm literally less than 3 inches away from the enemy on my monitor yet I still don't get SA. Basically in my mind, "ranged" sneak attack only works in melee if not near-melee range. I don't see what's so overpowering about this.


How about instead of allowing assassination at range, they fix the useless tier1 poison.

Namely by removing them and replacing them with the spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm) assassins would normally have in the pnp version. Make them times/shrine clickies similar to how Human Versatility works.

Or work outside of the box and give us back the stacking seeker bonuses we used to have and just remove poisons. The poisons are useless for anything you would want to use them on. They only give you a +2 bonus to hit while sneak attacking and +20 to confirm crits that you should be confirming on a 1 anyhow.

/signed

The poisons are useless and I would really like to have my rogue be able to use spells like in 3.5. I also agree with you that these should be clickies and not spell point dependent.

[Der_Incubo]

so melee assassinations...

Every roman emperor but Octavian, Tiberious, Claudius (poisoned), Nero (who commited suicide before he could be assassinated), Nerva, Hadrian, Tragian, Valarian, Queitus (died in battle) and Diocletian (abdicated throne) were assassinated by their personal troops, the praetorians, or political enemies..

In ancient greece it was fairly common o hire groups of "ruffians" to roam the streets and kill political opponents (in athens) and Hellots that were too smart/charismatic (in sparta).. Several Macadonian kings were assassinated, altho phillip is the only one i can name off top of my head... (these were done melee as well)

Hell.. the term assassin comes from the word hashish, as the persian cult (hashishans) would get high on hash before being sent out to complete their contracts, and i doubt they were using sniper rifles in 500AD to complete the task.

[Bekki]

*In his best John Ratzenburger impression... (Cliff Clavin from "Cheers")

Then you have you have your Japanese Emperors...
Many of them have been taken out by Ninja's... ;)

[Jonny_D]

Well Lennon, Lincoln and Oswald (not Ruby) were all killed at melee range, and their killers used the skills of a rogue assassin, sneaking up or blending in with the crowd.
All of Jack the Rippers victims were murdered at melee range with knives. Not to many medieval assassinations don't via range. Maybe on could say Richard the Lionhearted was assassinated by range. When mechanic three gives proficiency in long range gun powder weapons ;)

[khangharu]

makes sense to me. If you're in sneak attack range you should be able to assassinate. It would actually make sense for a ranged assassin build and it could be fun

[Thaxlsillyia]

:) may be allow ranged assassination using daggers/darts alone? THat will be more in line with a sneaky rogue. Another thing i would like to see is UMD bonus to mechanics...

[locus]

Id say defenstration and poisoning have probably been the method of assassination used most throughout history.

I say we should petition Turbine for some portable windows!

(OP: Assassination conjures up images of sneaking up close and stabbing. You're thinking of sniping.)


Because of guns and sniper rifles, most modern, high-profile assassinations are done at range.

Google it.
Actually, they're done very up close, with explosions. Unless by modern you mean fifty to a hundred and fifty years ago.

Funny thread. Next you guys will be wanting poisons to only work if poured into a monster's ear :D

[Lithic]

Who was assasinated with a melee weapon? Answer: Everyone who died by the hand of another from 2,500,000 BC (Humans evolve) to about the 13th century (earliest gun ever discovered). And MOSt people from the 13th century to the 19th century. And a good chunk of people from then until now.

Sorry, I don't have all their names.

[Calebro]

Regarding assassination:
First things first, guns are for show. Knives for a pro.
Secondly, if assassination were allowed at range then an elven ranger 6 / rogue 13 / anything 1, assassin 2 arcane archer would have both assassination at range and slaying arrows as well.
Way OP for instakill effects at range on a non-caster.
That's why assassination is melee only.