Helping the cluele....umm..uninformed!

[BansheeMalthus]

Despite the attempt at humor in the title, this is a serious post. It might even denigrate into a wall of text, so be forewarned. First a little background.

Recently, in a NECRO 2 elite run, slightly above lvl (10ish), some guildies and I put up an lfm.We picked up a TR'd Wizzy and a Cleric. It was Tomb of the Shadow King and Guard for reference. Guard went somewhat well, as all but the cleric and a barb had done it before, multiple times. They got lost in the water, and we told the wiz and a fighter to go on ahead and clear some if they could. Well I went back and got them and we caught up right before the end fight and BAM mummy's dead. easy peasy. Well we go on to King and due to a miscommunication, 2 peeps went the wrong way and created a DA4 alert. Well this new cleric was bombarded for requests for heals, restoration, etc., while the rest of us are fighting all the Shadows, phase Spiders, Umbrals, etc, etc. As a side note, All of us carried pots and used them as we were able, but it wasn't enough. Well, it happens and we wiped. One of my guildies had a res cake and said he was gonna try to get a couple of us to the shrine in the middle, but to give him a few, he needed a drink and would brb. While we were waiting, I started talking to the cleric( I have a TR'd cleric and have ran him on everything but epics before his TR. He wasn't built for epics at that time.) and was asking what happened, did she need a pot or two, why she didn't Radient burst(Rad Ser 1), what happened etc, etc. Let me stress that I was extremely polite and was not derogatory in any way. She seemed to run out of SP's way to quick and I was curious. Well it turns out that she is fairly new( couple months) and had joined a rather large guild on our server, who is known for taking anyone, and made a cleric, because in their GC, someone mentioned that they needed a few more. Well to make this a little shorter, she had NO CLUE WHATSOEVR about radient servent, what spells to take where etc. I asked if she'd talked to a guidie about it and she responded that except for a few newb's that she was friend's with, she didn't really have any contact with a lot of her guild members.Well the rescue attempt failed, and as we were going to go do a few high level guild things, I told her that if she ever needed help getting her cleric right, look me up. She stated that if I had some time right then, she would really apprieciate it. Well, we had more than enough guildies on, so I said sure. I proceded to give her a walkthrough on clericing, from 1st lvl to end game, and helped her respec for rad servant. Before we were done she had invited a couple of her guildie friends for the impromptu lesson, and quite frankly, I had a good time passing on my knowledge. They all were vey thankful and asked if they could contact me again, for advice on clerics, and other classes. Now I told them I am not an expert, but I would be more than happy to help. Which lead me to...

My wife and I discussing it. She's our guild founder and I am heir. She was half watching me and offering a bit of advice here and there that I overlooked or forgot. She said it was really nice of me and got a thoughtful look in her eyes that lead to the main purpose of this post. We, the combined members of Creeping Death want to offer "classes" if you will, on characters, builds, etc., for all the new people joining our server. We have several TR's many capped toons, and a few old timers, so we do have a wealth of experience to pass on. We aren't Elitists bt any means, nor do we consider ourselves an Elite guild, but we are improving daily and hope to be known as one in the future. So my main question is this....

How many of you out there on Sarlona, would be interested in helping? We have a ton of friends, and I know many founders of other guilds, who I think would be willing to, but I know you read the forums, so I would like for you to post it here. We all see the posts about the jerks, and the people complaining about newbs, and people not having a clue, just as we see some people defending them by saying that if someone had taught them, or showed them the ropes, that they wouldn't be so bad. So it's time to actually do something about it. Let's get together and offer some "classes" to help people learn. Maybe even a raid or three at level, so we can teach them proper ettiquitte and savvy about raids. With this in mind, I will be offering a clericing class SOON and would like a few other clerics to help. If we have eonough we can even do 2 groups. We will follow this with class "classes" and build "classes" and would love for like minded peeps to help. So, who's with us?

[LordRavnos]

I would love to see new people taking advice that seriously and with it being shoved down there throats, good idea.

[Teharahma]

Despite the attempt at humor in the title, this is a serious post. It might even denigrate into a wall of text, so be forewarned. First a little background.

Recently, in a NECRO 2 elite run, slightly above lvl (10ish), some guildies and I put up an lfm.We picked up a TR'd Wizzy and a Cleric. It was Tomb of the Shadow King and Guard for reference. Guard went somewhat well, as all but the cleric and a barb had done it before, multiple times. They got lost in the water, and we told the wiz and a fighter to go on ahead and clear some if they could. Well I went back and got them and we caught up right before the end fight and BAM mummy's dead. easy peasy. Well we go on to King and due to a miscommunication, 2 peeps went the wrong way and created a DA4 alert. Well this new cleric was bombarded for requests for heals, restoration, etc., while the rest of us are fighting all the Shadows, phase Spiders, Umbrals, etc, etc. As a side note, All of us carried pots and used them as we were able, but it wasn't enough. Well, it happens and we wiped. One of my guildies had a res cake and said he was gonna try to get a couple of us to the shrine in the middle, but to give him a few, he needed a drink and would brb. While we were waiting, I started talking to the cleric( I have a TR'd cleric and have ran him on everything but epics before his TR. He wasn't built for epics at that time.) and was asking what happened, did she need a pot or two, why she didn't Radient burst(Rad Ser 1), what happened etc, etc. Let me stress that I was extremely polite and was not derogatory in any way. She seemed to run out of SP's way to quick and I was curious. Well it turns out that she is fairly new( couple months) and had joined a rather large guild on our server, who is known for taking anyone, and made a cleric, because in their GC, someone mentioned that they needed a few more. Well to make this a little shorter, she had NO CLUE WHATSOEVR about radient servent, what spells to take where etc. I asked if she'd talked to a guidie about it and she responded that except for a few newb's that she was friend's with, she didn't really have any contact with a lot of her guild members.Well the rescue attempt failed, and as we were going to go do a few high level guild things, I told her that if she ever needed help getting her cleric right, look me up. She stated that if I had some time right then, she would really apprieciate it. Well, we had more than enough guildies on, so I said sure. I proceded to give her a walkthrough on clericing, from 1st lvl to end game, and helped her respec for rad servant. Before we were done she had invited a couple of her guildie friends for the impromptu lesson, and quite frankly, I had a good time passing on my knowledge. They all were vey thankful and asked if they could contact me again, for advice on clerics, and other classes. Now I told them I am not an expert, but I would be more than happy to help. Which lead me to...

My wife and I discussing it. She's our guild founder and I am heir. She was half watching me and offering a bit of advice here and there that I overlooked or forgot. She said it was really nice of me and got a thoughtful look in her eyes that lead to the main purpose of this post. We, the combined members of Creeping Death want to offer "classes" if you will, on characters, builds, etc., for all the new people joining our server. We have several TR's many capped toons, and a few old timers, so we do have a wealth of experience to pass on. We aren't Elitists bt any means, nor do we consider ourselves an Elite guild, but we are improving daily and hope to be known as one in the future. So my main question is this....

How many of you out there on Sarlona, would be interested in helping? We have a ton of friends, and I know many founders of other guilds, who I think would be willing to, but I know you read the forums, so I would like for you to post it here. We all see the posts about the jerks, and the people complaining about newbs, and people not having a clue, just as we see some people defending them by saying that if someone had taught them, or showed them the ropes, that they wouldn't be so bad. So it's time to actually do something about it. Let's get together and offer some "classes" to help people learn. Maybe even a raid or three at level, so we can teach them proper ettiquitte and savvy about raids. With this in mind, I will be offering a clericing class SOON and would like a few other clerics to help. If we have eonough we can even do 2 groups. We will follow this with class "classes" and build "classes" and would love for like minded peeps to help. So, who's with us?

That's the spirit!
+1!

Edit; It was worth the long read :)

[thx.janus]

I think this is an awesome idea, not even for new players, but also for those interested in a class they haven't played before (e.g i could use some little tricks and hints about Wizards).
I myself can't help on the cleric topic, simply because i have no clue of clerics (and never played one). But i think i know a little bit about light monks.
So, if you plan to do monk classes and i can manage to find the time, i would happily join you (might be difficult because i live in the GMT+1 timezone, but we'll see.). Just send me a PM or a /tell to either Aranja/Lupata/Daishee.

and +1 for being one of those not complaining but helping

[BansheeMalthus]

I think this is an awesome idea, not even for new players, but also for those interested in a class they haven't played before (e.g i could use some little tricks and hints about Wizards).
I myself can't help on the cleric topic, simply because i have no clue of clerics (and never played one). But i think i know a little bit about light monks.
So, if you plan to do monk classes and i can manage to find the time, i would happily join you (might be difficult because i live in the GMT+1 timezone, but we'll see.). Just send me a PM or a /tell to either Aranja/Lupata/Daishee.

and +1 for being one of those not complaining but helping

Actually we WILL be doing a light monk class and as far as the time zone, well even though I am GMT-5 I usually play during your morning. I myself have never played a light monk, but I do know something about dark monks. And I will be doing a class about Wizards, I have a capped one and Several of my friends do as well. These few responses so far give me hope, and I hope that others will as well. PS My main toons are Vonyell, JAimez, Allnightmare, Daverin, and Juztyn. Anyone can feel free to send me a tell as well.

[Vindicatus]

BansheeMalthus, players like you and your wife help make Sarlona a server worth playing. +1

[Molotov]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=202343

refer people to that thread for great clericing advise

[Falith12]

i would like to learn from these classes. Would a level 1 something or other (on another serer) be allowed to join? and when approximately will these happen?

[k1ngp1n]

Hmm....

[mws2970]

How do you plan to get the word out to the masses who would be looking for this kind of help?

[wax_on_wax_off]

I'd love to contribute and I think this is a great idea. I love the idea of making our server a better place. Plus, if I go to a formal class perhaps I can get all the teaching urges sorted and not take it on my guildies.

Sign me up.

[jwdaniels]

I would be happy to contribute, and I think I can speak for the membership of Crate and Barrel Smashing LLC and say that we are all happy to help out with this effort.


+1 to you for the helpful idea

[elricken]

GL to you, I am afraid my patience is worn down rather quickly lately else I might consider contributing.

[Taimasan]

Morfane is fully in tune with the dark side.

[elricken]

Morfane is fully in tune with the dark side.

And now young Quis, you WILL grind XP.


;)

[mws2970]

And now young Quis, you WILL grind XP.


;)

This is not the Quis you are looking for. Move along! :P

[The_Great_Samulas]

I tried something similar awhile ago. Thread is here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=241833).

It was rewarding offering advice and all, but in the end I found it better just to refer them to my thread (already listed in this thread), tell them to send me a tell if they had questions, and answer any specific questions they had at the time.

I wish you the best doing this. Some things to keep in mind. You need a way to get the word out (as another poster suggested). You need to do this at a time when people will be likelly on, which in the end will probably conflict with your own play schedule and those wanting to participate. This will be something you'll have to deal with. Offering these help sessions will conflict with your game time. I do recall this is a game and gaming is what it is about not listening to a panel discussion. In the end, I felt weird about offering advice like this about a game. I thought that a forum thread was more appropriate in the end, along with email contact through the forums. Many people send me emails regarding advice. I make myself available in game for quick questions as well.

Anyways, it is a nice thought and I hope it is fruitful for you.

[BansheeMalthus]

@ Falith12: as long as you are on Sarlona, We don't mind if youre 1st or 20th!
@mws2790: Well I have already gotten several PM's via the forums so that's way #1. The only feasible way in game is an lfm to a raid group with a few "instructors". We can finetune it once we get it rolling.
@ wax and jack. Thanks!! Ill send you guys a pm when the ball starts rolling.
@elricken: Totally understandable man
@ Samulas: You'll be the longest one, so you're last:P . I read your post and The Path of Enlightenment post. And I agree. However I think you started higher on the chain than I wish to. I want to start the lessons at the BEGINNING. Not with all lvl 1's per se, but with how to make a viable cleric(even without twink gear), good stat distribution, good spell and feat selection, and AP spending. I mean, that lvl 10 cleric in my op had decent stats( had to explain the even/odd number diference), but as far as feats, spells, and enhancements....*shudder*. A lot of new and newb people IMHO either pick up little tidbits hear and there, or ask something in the advice channel and get a quickie answer that doesn't solve the issue. If I only get 3-6 peeps thats fine, but it's not gonna be just clerics. We plan on doing this for all classes. As far as cutting into raid/play time, eh, I don't have a set raid schedule. We do raid several times a week, but we enjoy running random quests, or just BS'ing in Vent sometimes. We are a very laid back group and while I DO want to level my TR, its not a driving force. I can take a day a week, and do nothing in game but say hi and catch up with peeps, so why not use the time being instructive? And I won't be alone, will have peeps helping to teach, or heck, even if we don't get many people, we can teach each other some things. But I do thank you for your support and maybe you can come and be a guest lecturer!!!

[pie2655]

+10000000
Great job! I may have to get my guildies together and start doing this on Thelanis! XD

[BansheeMalthus]

Just as an aside, when everything is finalized, I will start a new post and post in here the times and such.

[chadj82371]

Good idea Vonyell. I'm certainly willing to help if you need me.

[BansheeMalthus]

And there's another one I was hoping to respond. Thanks Antello!!!

[chadj82371]

Yeah, well, every class needs to have a clown, lol.

Seriously, though, I think it's a good idea and I'm sure I can learn as much as I can teach. Just let me know the when, where, etc.

[Lorz]

OP...+1 to you and your wife.

It is far to easy to forget we where all newbs once...and a few minutes spent explaining and passing on knowledge can create a long lasting effect with people. While what you shared may seem minor to you....the people you helped....they will not forget.


/i continue to be one (noob)...but it is a clinical condition and i gots a note from my mommy excusing me..... :)

[Stergan]

I think that this is a great idea. Please also give them info on where they can research more on the net: the ddo forums, ddowiki.com, ddocast.com, greensteel planner, puzzle solvers. . .etc

I would be happy to help if need be, i'm not an expert, but i have played all the classes. You can pm me here or send me in game tell on "Spasms"

[Rhev]

I'ld be more than happy to help. I'm really only available during daytime or sun/mon though.

[hityawithastick]

A great idea. I support it thoroughly.


...I don't suppose you have a khyber branch of your guild? :p

Edit: Actually, no reason why I can't do this on khyber with my guild...derp. Look me up if you want a hand, anyone who reads the forums. :)

[Falith12]

if only he had one on Thelanis as well.... :)

[TeyaBrosna]

What a *fantastic* idea! Thank you SO much for taking on this responsibility for the betterment of our whole server. Would it be alright if some non-clerics got into the action? Or would you consider doing a ranger class as well? :)

[Acehole31]

I'd be more than happy to help. :) My characters are in my signature and I am by and large available at all times during the afternoon/early evening.

[Don1966]

i too would like to join in on this in order to do two things, pass on the things i've learned and to learn new things. i am usually on quite a bit, usually on Rack or Braut.

[johnyBgood]

I have been thinking something like this for awhile, I however am not the best person to consult for great builds..as such I have learned to rely on tactic rather than brute force..remember when we all worked together and used strategery?

I would be willing to help out..but more with showing basic..like where to buy and sell to max prophets..collectables that matter..must have pots in inventory... gear.. tactics, like choke points, body pulling, shield walls..aggro..etc..

if you could use anyhelp in those areas shoot me pm an Ill look you up on sarlona.

again thanks! I thinkSarlona will be better for it

[Taimasan]

i will help
-quis
just send info what i gotta do.

[Iftan609]

If I had someone show me the way to do things none of my capped toons would be gimpped before I learned what was what.




As a side note have you noticed that only 1 person has replyed to this post that started before F2P but they are always the ones that put up posts about how they hate all the noobies that play now. Maybe if they shared some of their knowledge there wouldn't be so many noobz.

Just my thoughts LOL

[Acehole31]

If I had someone show me the way to do things none of my capped toons would be gimpped before I learned what was what.




As a side note have you noticed that only 1 person has replyed to this post that started before F2P but they are always the ones that put up posts about how they hate all the noobies that play now. Maybe if they shared some of their knowledge there wouldn't be so many noobz.

Just my thoughts LOL

You assume that they hadn't. As a matter of fact, the player in question that you seem to point out actually helped ME at one point and a toon of mine is so much better for it. Simply because they cannot be everywhere at once does not mean they do not help at all.

If you want help, please feel free to hit me up ingame, I'm more than happy to give advice.

[Arysta]

Well, firstly, I am so very glad to see so many players like our idea.

The hardest part, i think, will be implementation. I know alot of the new players don't even know about the forums/read them, so we're going to have to come up with some way to get the word out, so to speak. Once the ball gets rolling, hopefully word of mouth will help let people know what we're doing. Although I hate spamming General chat, maybe posting something there (before putting up, say a raid size lfm) ,would halp draw those that are willing to learn and to teach.

We do, actually, plan on having "classes" on proper gear, use of the Auction House, etc as well. And group dynamics, questing, even LFMs and suchlike are something that can be covered.

And actually, we do have a few offshoots of Creeping Death on other servers - they're called Sarlona on Holiday, and we essentially use them for favor farming.. But I'm sure there are quite a few of us that would love to help out with implementing this on other servers if you're interested. :)

[BansheeMalthus]

Thanks for all the replies and such everyone. I have a few thoughts about this, but I just got home from a horrible 10 hr shift at work and need sleep. And to everyone who pos repped me and wife Arysta above is said wife. So please, in the intrest of fairness, +1 her too.

[mws2970]

Thanks for all the replies and such everyone. I have a few thoughts about this, but I just got home from a horrible 10 hr shift at work and need sleep. And to everyone who pos repped me and wife Arysta above is said wife. So please, in the intrest of fairness, +1 her too.

+1 one to you and your better half. I really like what you are trying to accomplish.

[The_Great_Samulas]

@ Samulas: You'll be the longest one, so you're last:P . I read your post and The Path of Enlightenment post. And I agree. However I think you started higher on the chain than I wish to. I want to start the lessons at the BEGINNING. Not with all lvl 1's per se, but with how to make a viable cleric(even without twink gear), good stat distribution, good spell and feat selection, and AP spending. I mean, that lvl 10 cleric in my op had decent stats( had to explain the even/odd number diference), but as far as feats, spells, and enhancements....*shudder*. A lot of new and newb people IMHO either pick up little tidbits hear and there, or ask something in the advice channel and get a quickie answer that doesn't solve the issue. If I only get 3-6 peeps thats fine, but it's not gonna be just clerics. We plan on doing this for all classes. As far as cutting into raid/play time, eh, I don't have a set raid schedule. We do raid several times a week, but we enjoy running random quests, or just BS'ing in Vent sometimes. We are a very laid back group and while I DO want to level my TR, its not a driving force. I can take a day a week, and do nothing in game but say hi and catch up with peeps, so why not use the time being instructive? And I won't be alone, will have peeps helping to teach, or heck, even if we don't get many people, we can teach each other some things. But I do thank you for your support and maybe you can come and be a guest lecturer!!!

I understand the advice you are wanting to start with. Advice that should be given from their guild. Advice that is also available on the forums. You are basically offering a different venue for this advice, which is good. I know the type of guilds you are referring to that don't school their players appropriately (quite a few are in the high renown range). I am all for getting these guys up to speed. Another piece of advice you should give them is to drop their guild and join one that is actually good (like yours is sounding). Of course, it may just be an aspect of the player who is intimidated by the guild overall and not wanting to ask basic questions and revealing thier overall lack of understanding. That is why the venue you are proposing is a good idea. They can just join the raid group and sit there and listen, without drawing too much attention. The only reason I am pointing all this out is that if you realize the type of student you are teaching, you will have more success at teaching.

As far as coming in to teach specifics, I will hold off and see how things go. I could devote 30 minutes or so every other week devoted to specific topics at some point if you think it will be helpful. Here are some of the topics I used at the Academia di Curatio:

Dealing with Problematic PUGs
Mass Healing, Dos and Don'ts
Walking the Path of Enlightenment

[Quikster]

If I had someone show me the way to do things none of my capped toons would be gimpped before I learned what was what.




As a side note have you noticed that only 1 person has replyed to this post that started before F2P but they are always the ones that put up posts about how they hate all the noobies that play now. Maybe if they shared some of their knowledge there wouldn't be so many noobz.

Just my thoughts LOL

Some of us have been helping new people for years. Why must I sign up on a forum thread in order for you to feel good about vets?


Most true vets are helpful. There are some that arent sure. What I see now is a lot of people that started playing a year and a half ago peeing on the newest guys.

Dont assume because long time vets arent signing up here to help, that they arent helping.

[Raolin_Darksbane]

Ah, the Creeping Death folks again :p

I wouldn't mind helping out a bit where I can ~

Lately, I can generally be found on Raolin, Heiste, Antivyrus or Epiitaph in order of play time. Hit me up if there's anything I can do to help out~

[LordPiglet]

I give newbs advice anytime I get a chance.

- heavy fort is a waste
- con is a dump stat
- if you die, find a better cleric to run with, it's not that your squishy
- buffs are over rated, divine mana should only be used for healing



Actually, I've talked to a couple people from that renown farming guild and basically get the same story. If they're in a group or raid together, it's pretty much luck. There's no guild, just a bunch of people working on their own characters.

There are some good players in their, I guess they're mostly their for the air ship benefits. If you give them some feedback, they do seem to listen, they answered questions and listened to my suggestion atleast.

I was going to take a couple on the last raid, but it filled a bit too quickly by people who were friends of those. I wish I had remembered the name as I didn't get a chance to reply to a couple of them (specifically the WF barb who I was going to explain what I meant when asking for a tank and then see how he was equipped and if he could handle Sully).

[mws2970]

I give newbs advice anytime I get a chance.

- heavy fort is a waste
- con is a dump stat
- if you die, find a better cleric to run with, it's not that your squishy
- buffs are over rated, divine mana should only be used for healing

If you're not spamming the Marketplace, Harbor or Korthos advice channels with this, then you're not doing it right! :P

If there is any small way I can contribute, please let me know. I am on almost every night around 6 CT. My toons are in my sig.

[Taimasan]

someone give quik a huggle

[k1ngp1n]

One thing that, in my experience, has served as the greatest motivators for 'puggers' to perform and improve is actually witnessing the kind of character power that can be developed. We are in a state of the game where a lot of people think that their character is generating excellent dps or performs well (and therefore feel qualified to give out advice in harbor general or wherever), when in reality they are underperforming by a wide margin. The disparity develops simply from these new players not seeing what a highly geared and skillfully played character looks like, let alone the amount of damage they can generate.

It is also due to the end-game guilds becoming more and more secluded, in relation to the server population. If you would go into the market and post a quick poll where the most skilled players are, you likely wouldn't get the names Roving Guns, Quantum Entropy, Caffeine, and such listed. When I was first meandering harbor a year and a half ago, I knew about RG, QE, and Caffeine, and actively searched for them so I could watch them play (and see what they did that I wasn't doing). So I didn't hear about pots being so useful, I saw dudes do it. I didn't learn my damage mitigation strategies from the forums, I learned them by watching a couple Caffeine dudes in the Orchard.

That is not to say that I'm knowledgeable or anything - I'm a total n0oB. But, if you want to really teach skilled play, you need to add a second component. After you go through these classes, you need to stick these new peeps in a group with a pile of really skilled players, so they can watch the application of the basic rules you taught (and when certain rules don't work) while a dungeon is completely blasted through in a crazy zerg.

Hopefully I got my point across without too many people getting insulted... :rolleyes:

[Taimasan]

*sigh* posts about groups completely dominating a dungeon makes me want to come back to the game...

[Gnorbert]

Ooooh, I'll come along on any of these groups. I'm no expert but I do have some broad understanding of principles. I'm an altaholic, I build far too many chars and cap few. I spend all my forum time in the char build forum so that's where my focus lies. Building a strong base is path to success. (That and rich friends :) )

Look me up on

Gnoob
Gnatty
Gnoo
Gnorc
Baddem

( I know.. one of those doesn't belong)

[LordPiglet]

someone give quik a huggle

I'm sending some newbs to hug him

[BansheeMalthus]

Some of us have been helping new people for years. Why must I sign up on a forum thread in order for you to feel good about vets?


Most true vets are helpful. There are some that arent sure. What I see now is a lot of people that started playing a year and a half ago peeing on the newest guys.

Dont assume because long time vets arent signing up here to help, that they arent helping.

You are absolutly correct! A lot of what I have learned came from vets, who took the time to show me things and explain why x is better than y, but z trumps all. This is a tribute in a way, to the vets and guilds who showed me and Arysta hints, pointers, and tricks. I learned a lot from a few members of The Judges, High Lords, Caffienne(sp), even from members of your own QE. And by becoming friends with other guilds, such as the Rogue Saints, with whom we compared and shared advice with, it helped us develop our characters even more.

So please, don't think that some of us don't feel good about you vets and founders. I really respect and appreiciate all the advice you guys have given me and I just wanna pass it on.

[BansheeMalthus]

One thing that, in my experience, has served as the greatest motivators for 'puggers' to perform and improve is actually witnessing the kind of character power that can be developed. We are in a state of the game where a lot of people think that their character is generating excellent dps or performs well (and therefore feel qualified to give out advice in harbor general or wherever), when in reality they are underperforming by a wide margin. The disparity develops simply from these new players not seeing what a highly geared and skillfully played character looks like, let alone the amount of damage they can generate.

It is also due to the end-game guilds becoming more and more secluded, in relation to the server population. If you would go into the market and post a quick poll where the most skilled players are, you likely wouldn't get the names Roving Guns, Quantum Entropy, Caffeine, and such listed. When I was first meandering harbor a year and a half ago, I knew about RG, QE, and Caffeine, and actively searched for them so I could watch them play (and see what they did that I wasn't doing). So I didn't hear about pots being so useful, I saw dudes do it. I didn't learn my damage mitigation strategies from the forums, I learned them by watching a couple Caffeine dudes in the Orchard.

That is not to say that I'm knowledgeable or anything - I'm a total n0oB. But, if you want to really teach skilled play, you need to add a second component. After you go through these classes, you need to stick these new peeps in a group with a pile of really skilled players, so they can watch the application of the basic rules you taught (and when certain rules don't work) while a dungeon is completely blasted through in a crazy zerg.

Hopefully I got my point across without too many people getting insulted... :rolleyes:

No insult taken!Lol. I learned the same way you did really. You raise a really good point about the endgame guilds becoming more and more secluded. most of them are 20, or a Trd 20 and each knows their role so well within the guild raids and such, that they do a lot instictivly now. From what I have seen, when they do TR , some of them will do it in groups, and stay together, which in a good guild is kinda the way it should be. However, without pugging, the newer players won't benefit from the massive amounts of experience they have learned. That's why I sometimes activly seek out pugs now, especially those that advertise for a guide, or say first timers etc.

As to your last point, if I could direct you to the OP, we plan on doing that. Our plan is to use TS( tempest Spine) as the "training" raid. We plan on going over roles, and taking it slowly for the first run, explaining things as we go along. Second run will be a normal speed non-zerg, hope you payed attention to what we said run. Third will be a keep up crazy zerg. That way, hopefully seeing the differences in play style, we can better prepare them for pugs in the future, while teaching in a somewhat structured enviroment.

[BansheeMalthus]

Also, for those of you who wanted to help, what would you say to a preclass class, so we can get together and compare notes, etc, etc. Get a good idea of what were gonna do.

[k1ngp1n]

*sigh* posts about groups completely dominating a dungeon makes me want to come back to the game...

I almost made a horrible joke about 'dominating a dungeon' but then I decided the infraction wasn't worth it. Alas, the world is worse off. Or better off, depending on whether or not you value your sanity.

[chadj82371]

Also, for those of you who wanted to help, what would you say to a preclass class, so we can get together and compare notes, etc, etc. Get a good idea of what were gonna do.

Sounds good. Just let me know when. I'm still on pretty much every night starting about 9:30 c.s.t. until whenever.

[cyberglammie]

Ok slight Hijack but I should be allowed as I'm from the same guild and part of the same idea

Raids .. Ive been wanting to get a few Really strong characters together on Sarlona for a while who can basically ( I do know the raids and have done them) let me semi pike so i can properley write notes and do a how to do xxx raid guide ( the Sarlona way ...or should i say the right way ;)...).

The idea i had is to run with guys who can do the rad easily but dont mind taking their time so we can do the full what you need .

i.e which buffs are essential and which are just usefull .. but which ones are non essential ..

Now this is an idea for the future cause i just Tr'd my main and need to reflagg and i still have 3 raids to learn properley ( TOD Abott and Titan) .. But anyone intyerested in maybe starting with the lower lvl ones in the next few weeks .. ??

Vanitee, Mydnighte, Memorey

[justhavinfun]

My hat is off to the OP. I think this is one of the first threads I have read that showed an experianced player taking the time to help someone new to the game. I am not on Sarlona but I really appreciate the initiative being taken by the OP and the oter players that have responded to this thread. I just wish that more people would take the time to nicely educate the newer players instead of yelling at htem that they are NEWBS and blacklisting them. I try and help newer players with what advice I can give when asked instead of trying to force unsolicited down their throats. I have found that this tends to work better and makes the game more enjoyable for all.

[nolaureltree000]

Now this is an idea for the future cause i just Tr'd my main and need to reflagg and i still have 3 raids to learn properley ( TOD Abott and Titan)

most of the people that run Abott dont understand how to run all of it. the first 8 people to join all call dibs on scouting or roids, you make the clerics do the jumping ones because of their DIs, then you put up an LFM and wait for 45 minutes until you get two people that can do goggles :p


this is a great idea and i can help with this wherever needed. it seems youve already gotten my two areas of class know how covered, dark STR monks and wizards, but ive run most of the raids in the game (everything but Titan and DQ) so i can help out/fill roles in raids as needed.

[BansheeMalthus]

most of the people that run Abott dont understand how to run all of it. the first 8 people to join all call dibs on scouting or roids, you make the clerics do the jumping ones because of their DIs, then you put up an LFM and wait for 45 minutes until you get two people that can do goggles :p


this is a great idea and i can help with this wherever needed. it seems youve already gotten my two areas of class know how covered, dark STR monks and wizards, but ive run most of the raids in the game (everything but Titan and DQ) so i can help out/fill roles in raids as needed.

TBH hade I was hoping me,you, and a friend cover dark monks and wizzys. Wehave Z and a few friends for light monks, cause that's a whole different animal. As far as abbott you and oz are the only guildies with experience that I know of so you're recruited...:P

[nolaureltree000]

TBH hade I was hoping me,you, and a friend cover dark monks and wizzys. Wehave Z and a few friends for light monks, cause that's a whole different animal. As far as abbott you and oz are the only guildies with experience that I know of so you're recruited...:P

sounds good. although if you read my above description of the abbot raid, thats the extent of my experience with it. i can do roids if needed :p

[Quikster]

most of the people that run Abott dont understand how to run all of it. the first 8 people to join all call dibs on scouting or roids, you make the clerics do the jumping ones because of their DIs, then you put up an LFM and wait for 45 minutes until you get two people that can do goggles :p


this is a great idea and i can help with this wherever needed. it seems youve already gotten my two areas of class know how covered, dark STR monks and wizards, but ive run most of the raids in the game (everything but Titan and DQ) so i can help out/fill roles in raids as needed.

Well if youre going to be teaching, you might as well teach how to do puzzles legit, which means 2 in ice, 4 in roids, the rest in tiles, 2 or 3 spotters depending on the method you are running.

[Acehole31]

Well if youre going to be teaching, you might as well teach how to do puzzles legit, which means 2 in ice, 4 in roids, the rest in tiles, 2 or 3 spotters depending on the method you are running.

Yeah, it's hard to get practice in with legit goggles. I know HOW to do it via mirror or being guided, but I've only ever once been able to make the attempt. Most groups will do what they can to achieve the completion. I'd personally love the chance to practice legit goggles, the other two aren't all that difficult to do. In short, if lessons were to be taught on mirror method or whatever for Abbot's goggles, I'd love to come for that and learn a little myself! Of course I'd be more than happy to teach as well, I'm fairly experienced in there.

[BansheeMalthus]

Well a couple of us guildies are brainstorming our ideas for the first class, which will be about clerics. I will be pm'ing or /telling to either get advice from some of you or to invite you to the "preclass" so we can share ideas and such. Please understand that the main purpose of the classes will be to instruct people on a good, contributing, viable build, play style and spell/gear selection, with tips on uber gear. It will not be a "you need this, this and this, and you must prepare these spells or youre gonna suck." The way I see it, explaining basics and giving people a good solid, viable starting point, with suggestions and EXPLANATIONS on why some spells are good, why you want to strive for x item, etc. will help them make better decisions as they progress on their own. Now if we get several clerics who have been around a while, and we want to compare notes, offer comments, discuss tactics and situations, etc. That'll be fine too. But for the new to playing, or new to clericing peeps, I want give them a good starting point, and offer suggestions to be an effective team/guild member, not to be an uber solo build. This applies to all other classes as well.

As far as the raids go, we know a few of them backwards and forwards, but for those that we don't, like twilight forge, and abbot, if anyone is willing to guide a group through, probably slowly and at a sedate pace since I and Van will be taking notes, let me know. Doesn't need to be at level, Id rather complete it and get all the info i need. This whole idea is something I really feel strongly about and I don't wanna half @$$ it or anything. I want to be fully prepared for each facet.

[Tazar]

hey guys I would be really interested in joining when you get started I also have a few friends that might be interested.

Any and all info will be useful but my main is a lvl 19 warchanter that wants to get into raiding. I also have a 4 wiz and a 4 cleric that i want to play but am unsure what is expected or even if they are viable builds.

After trying to learn what not to do from "I hate n00bs" threads it will be really useful to get some positive feedback. Thanks

[Arkadios]

I'll join in on the cleric class :)

I'm often helping the newbies out in-game etc, and i like this idea.
Depending on the time of course, may not be able to make it, either way send me a pm here or a tell/message to one of my toons:

Urtha (monk, don't know that much about them, last life was a sorc)
Fradil (exploiter ranger)
Truthik (barbarian)
Grethink (cleric)

[Teech]

How many of you out there on Sarlona, would be interested in helping? We have a ton of friends, and I know many founders of other guilds, who I think would be willing to, but I know you read the forums, so I would like for you to post it here. We all see the posts about the jerks, and the people complaining about newbs, and people not having a clue, just as we see some people defending them by saying that if someone had taught them, or showed them the ropes, that they wouldn't be so bad. So it's time to actually do something about it. Let's get together and offer some "classes" to help people learn. Maybe even a raid or three at level, so we can teach them proper ettiquitte and savvy about raids. With this in mind, I will be offering a clericing class SOON and would like a few other clerics to help. If we have eonough we can even do 2 groups. We will follow this with class "classes" and build "classes" and would love for like minded peeps to help. So, who's with us?

Just before reading this thread, I was reading the other thread about a server-wide chat channel in which it was revealed that the elite peeps on Sarlona had a private channel closed to newbs and avoided general chat like the plague. I thought Sarlona was a more mature server than that.

I love the idea, and though rather newb myself, would be happy to help however I can. I don't think i'm qualified to hold classes, but I could lurk around Korthos and send more newbs your way =p

[Acehole31]

Just before reading this thread, I was reading the other thread about a server-wide chat channel in which it was revealed that the elite peeps on Sarlona had a private channel closed to newbs and avoided general chat like the plague. I thought Sarlona was a more mature server than that.

You misunderstand the intent behind the channel. It wasn't created to keep newbs out, it was originally created to bring together people who knew the inside and out of a very difficult raid. Since that private channel's inception and implementation it has slowly devolved into a broader spectrum - Endgame content (raids, epics) as well as the original raid are all included. Now if someone wants to change their chat channel setups to have General chat turned off, that's their business and theirs alone. That has nothing to do with the private channel in any way shape or form.

Don't get the wrong idea simply based on your own preconceived notions of what 'elite peeps' are. Almost all veterans are willing to show the new guys how it's done as long as the new guys are willing to listen.

[kreltis]

Sounds like a very good idea,i often help out new people myself and most classes i have played pretty far (cleric being one of them).I enjoy helping others and supplying them with good information and suggestions,i would be very happy to help in this you could call it project.

[Teech]

You misunderstand the intent behind the channel...

Almost all veterans are willing to show the new guys how it's done as long as the new guys are willing to listen.

That's great. I certainly did not mean to imply that all veterans are unwilling to help, just that my impression from that thread was that some veterans are using channels like that to keep in touch with other vets while alienating anyone who wasn't one. I'm sure not everyone uses said channel for that purpose.

I remember Sarlona as a great server with lots of vets willing to help, but that was more than 2 years ago. I was just hoping that the character of the server hadn't changed that much since then, and this thread has given me much hope. =)

Go Sarlona!

[Arysta]

While most of the guild was running VoN the other day, Zee, one of out resident Monk trainers posted a training LFM and actually had about five or more players of varying levels join in for a lesson. He said that it went really well and that they planned on telling their friends that we were going to be hosting classes in the near future.

So, using the LFM as a starting point seems to work; hopefully we can get the ball rolling soon on having regular "classes" and get the word out to those who want some help with their character builds.

[Bbrik]

***Posted this on another thread that I think may be linked with this but wanted to cover bases***

I have played since beta but my account has gone FTP :( and I can only play about every other weekend now but I have a YouTube page called youtube.com/theDDOtube ... It has been abandoned basically but I really would like to see it used for its main purpose I had when making it.

Now my idea was that I would just delete everything from that site and maybe make it what I had originally wanted it to be, a site that you could come learn tips, tricks, character guides, quest guides, and etc... I would really love to start it back up and can give you the info for it and you could maybe record a video giving walk throughs on classes so it wouldn't be JUST for sarlona or JUST as big as the party can hold, and for the people that missed it.

Please email me at mcdizzle77@yahoo.com , if you would like to talk about this more in depth... I love the idea of these classes, I think that is what makes DDO so much better than other games, is the amount of help people are willing to give for one person and still turn around and do it for the next person. I love giving advice and recieving it even though I have been playing since beta. Like in life you never stop learing and I think this is a great way for people to learn and would really like to see it expanded from a single server and single groups to who ever can type in youtube into their search bar. Hopefully you find this idea as great as I did haha. Look forward to talk about it

[thx.janus]

Hi there. Too bad i couldn't make it in time for the cleric class. Living in GMT+1 is not very helpful in terms of DDO events.

This brought up an idea:

What about recording these classes, maybe even in video, and post it up on youtube? That way, folks like me, who most probably will not be able to attend the future classes, could at least hear what you talked about. And using a youtube channel to gather all these classes in one place would shure be very helpful to many people.

In addition, im might also be worth to give the informations about the classes to sigtrent. I could imagine that he would do a quick note on ddocast.

Edit: Doh', i should have read the above post... oh well, nevertheless, i support the video idea! :)