Cannith Loot Etiquette

[Musouka]

I understand that what's yours is yours to do with what you will. I believe that someone can really do whatever they want. However, when you run a whole raid and hope that the group is going to give everyone and a chance at some of the drops, but then in the end a wizard tosses a tharnes goggles to a fighter without saying a thing throughout the whole quest, it can ruin your experiences with pugs and totally distrust them from then on.

If you're going to host a pug and only have 4 of your own guild in the group, perhaps the leader should declare what the loot rules are going to be. Even if the rules are going to be that 'my guild comes first with any loot draws that my guild may pull.' Otherwise anyone can assume whatever they want about the etiquette of how it will play out. There were several melees that could have used those goggles in the raid, but when no whisper is made about who gets what and there is just a ninja pass then the rest of the aforementioned guild congratulating the fighter for being able to draw what the wizard passed to him, it makes you not ever want to raid with that guild anymore.

Is this something new to Cannith, as it is the first time I have ever seen it happen in the 1 year+ some months I've been playing on Cannith. I have been in raids where the leader did say if he drew a certain item, he was going to give to another person, yet everything else would be put up for roll. This was before we even began the raid. It was fine like that. I did not see any issue whatsoever.

So what are the thoughts on how we should assume a raid will be before jumping to any conclusions? I completely go by the what's yours is yours, but would appreciate some ground rules being set before it begins or at least before we loot. Or should we just assume not to get any items unless we draw them ourselves? If that's the case, I'll avoid pugs from here on out.

[camgib]

First off, your loot is your loot. Period. If you want to let it rot in the chest and recall or vendor it, it's your loot.

Second, I was in the raid you mention. The guild in question, of which I and the aforementioned are individuals are a part, has rules against such actions. The players in question have been warned. I seriously doubt that it will recur.

[Fancy_A_Fling]

Unfortunately, loot will cause the most drama you will ever see on this entire game.. happens in G-Land all the time.. my advice.. if you dont like them, dont run with them.. sometimes its a guild established rule, sometimes its some members specifically in the guild that only do it.. but nonetheless as pointed out.. your loot is your loot. ive seen a rogue pull a +4 cha tome, ive seen a BARB pull a +4 cha tome, but it was their loot.. and im speaking of 2 of my own guildies..i cant say i approve but its the truth.. loot will turn you over and screw you on both sides of the dollar.. its life though.. on the bright side... you can bring some good friends of your own.. and ask if they need something IE Bracers of the Glacier, if u get it.. pass it to them, if they get tharnes pass it to you.. My personal opinion i got out of this ASAP got into a well fonded guild with alot of people already in established raid loot.. but epics is another story..To rap this up, i suggest just saying, well atleast a fighter got it and wasnt the other way around.. ive seen wiz's pull tharnes.. ive seen it all.. just keep in mind.. if its up for roll and they dont let you roll.. then thats when id start calling them out.. inside guild rolls that would be SCREWED up. BUT i wish you luck in the future and may you keep this in mind when you are the one in a group with your friends and u pug someone out.. just think how theyd feel if you did it to them :P

[Kmnh]

Passing those Tharne's Goggles or Madstone Boots that you know a friend/guildie needs is a good feeling. Being passed that +4 tome that you wouldn't expect to get, ever, feels better than actually pulling it. Don't ask others to deny themselves those moments of joy.

The "fair roll" has already been done when the server generated that chest. If it's not under your name, it's not yours. Make more friends, and you will receive more gifts :)

[Demeron]

Your Loot is your Loot.............

When i pull named Loot that i dont need i ask Friends Guildys if they need it first. When the Item is for a special class of use i prefer to set it up for Roll, even if a Friend Guildy wants it. But then i allow only the class to roll not even those who tell i will TR soon as........ Passing Loot to Friends Guldys is ok in my Eyes what i dont like is Guildys rolling on an Item and then pass it so the Guildmember so he has 4 or 6 time the chance to get it in an all group roll. Roll only on items u need.

I only have eyes for items my name is on if somethink goes up to roll i think about if and when i am going t use it bevore i roll

[nicnivyn]

Or should we just assume not to get any items unless we draw them ourselves?

This is the correct answer. Never assume that you will have a chance at other peoples loot, or even that any loot will drop at all.

Not a new thing at all, and pretty standard practice. Some guilds may have their own rules or expectations, but overall I think it would be a huge leap to say it was considered unacceptable to pass an item to a friend.

[Musouka]

Ok. I see valid points from every response. I'm not going to beat the dead horse here, as I've seen several threads that turn into flame wars over this very topic. I have a vast friend list, so I probably should raid with the same notion. If it's going to happen to me, then it's going to happen to them too. I will pass my loot to someone on my friend list if they are in the raid, before I let the whole group roll for it. Not to say I'm going to pass Ring of Thelis to a fighter, that's just dumb. But if there's a caster friend in party and they need it, it's theirs before it goes up for roll.

[Varr]

I look at every item like an unbound +3 tome. The person that has the item populate in the chest should always pull or sell it. Anything else that happens is a tremendous act of charity. The giver has the right to give as his/her own heart desires.

The only loot circumstance that burns my azz is when a roll is offered up by the gifter and then is not honored. It seems dishonest to me to commit to an action (like I'll award this dohicky to whoever rolls the highest d100) and then not follow thur on it. Selling after a roll, changing mind, ignoring rollers that were not disqualified before the roll.

Those actions show a weakness of character that I do not want to play with.

Beyond honoring your agreements, for me, nothing borthers me.

[~rognepied]

I mostly agree with you Musouka, i think its unfair when you join a guild run as pug and you cant roll on guildie good loot but they still can roll on yours... That said i wish to explain what happen in this vod. So i was in this run with my wizz, i plan to go completionist on this toon so i try to farm many good raid loot, because i dont want to take loot from people who can use loot in their actual life i dont roll for loot but just keep mine... In vod i was mostly looking for tharne googles and lucky me i loot em. this is my loot and i want it but because my friend toons is quite new and i am close to 20 completions (18) i choose to give up this loot i want to my friend, i dont think this is unfair or i dont feel like i cheat anybody, this is just my choice. That said i m sorry it upset you that much and i regret to have been quite sneaky on this, i should have explain to group what i m doing and why. For that too i m apologize. If you 're still agro on me or my friend please dont blame my guild for this, this isn't their fault only mine.

[Impaqt]

I understand that what's yours is yours to do with what you will. I believe that someone can really do whatever they want.

THis is how things SHOULD be. and you claim to believe that.... Bravo.



However, when you run a whole raid and hope that the group is going to give everyone and a chance at some of the drops, but then in the end a wizard tosses a tharnes goggles to a fighter without saying a thing throughout the whole quest, it can ruin your experiences with pugs and totally distrust them from then on.

If you're going to host a pug and only have 4 of your own guild in the group, perhaps the leader should declare what the loot rules are going to be. Even if the rules are going to be that 'my guild comes first with any loot draws that my guild may pull.' Otherwise anyone can assume whatever they want about the etiquette of how it will play out. There were several melees that could have used those goggles in the raid, but when no whisper is made about who gets what and there is just a ninja pass then the rest of the aforementioned guild congratulating the fighter for being able to draw what the wizard passed to him, it makes you not ever want to raid with that guild anymore.

Is this something new to Cannith, as it is the first time I have ever seen it happen in the 1 year+ some months I've been playing on Cannith. I have been in raids where the leader did say if he drew a certain item, he was going to give to another person, yet everything else would be put up for roll. This was before we even began the raid. It was fine like that. I did not see any issue whatsoever.

So what are the thoughts on how we should assume a raid will be before jumping to any conclusions? I completely go by the what's yours is yours, but would appreciate some ground rules being set before it begins or at least before we loot. Or should we just assume not to get any items unless we draw them ourselves? If that's the case, I'll avoid pugs from here on out.

However, the rest of what you said is completely at odds with those first 2 sentences.

Do you believe those 2 sentences or not? if you do, you wasted a whole lot of typing.


If it doesnt fall in your name, you have no right to it. never assume you do. you'll have more fun.

[Musouka]

The rest of what I said was to propose a situation, using a recent experience, then ask questions based on it. It wasn't wasted. Regardless, you did answer my questions, and I will not assume anything except that I get what I pull. I hope other people understand the same when I am in group.

[Impaqt]

The rest of what I said was to propose a situation, using a recent experience, then ask questions based on it. It wasn't wasted. Regardless, you did answer my questions, and I will not assume anything except that I get what I pull. I hope other people understand the same when I am in group.

No, it seems your first 2 sentences were the pointless additions.

Its obvious that you dont believe "Your loot is your loot".

[ladyofevilness]

This is how my guild runs it, and we havent had an issue yet. Guildies trade with each other. I someone needs something and a guildie gets it then they give it free or they guildie pays for it in other ways. If someone outside the guild get it then its up to them if they want to keep it for trade it or let people roll for it. But then again my guild is build around team work and alliance work and being friendly no greedy players.

[Jawny_Carcinogen]

ive seen a BARB pull a +4 cha tome, but it was their loot.. and im speaking of 2 of my own guildies..i cant say i approve but its the truth..

It'd be hard to dissaprove night, you were that barbarian lol.

[Yazzira]

Hey guys.

Please, stop making more loot drama. I'm a bit tired about it. :)

Greetings

[Dimack]

ive seen a rogue pull a +4 cha tome, but it was their loot.. and im speaking of 2 of my own guildies..i cant say i approve but its the truth..

Thx for that wiblets... Kobold hate you forever :P

[Satinavian]

As proud Khyber member i must acknowledge the superiority of another server, even if it pains me. Really hard to admit.

The amount of (loot) drama on Cannith in the last couple of months overshades our position of DDOs drama server Nr.1.

[Dolphious]

In regards to the "they should have said something before the raid" point, I think that might sound good on a forum post, but who really wants to hear every member of a raid going through what they're going to do with every possible loot pull? It would be like reading off 12 wills: And Tharne's goggles will go to Joey, unless Joey already has them or he DCs, in which case they go to Marry, etc. Not to mention that not everyone memorizes the loot tables.

Personally not only do I have no problem with passing loot to friends, I'm also just fine with it being "ninja." Why should you have to make a big show of it? Rolling on unwanted loot is a fun end-of-raid tradition, but there's nothing sacred about it. As long as, as Varr pointed out, you don't say one thing and do another (which is a form of griefing), just let people do what they want with their loot. They're going to do what they want with it anyway, so you might as well have a mindset that doesn't have a problem with that reality.

[Sideways]

The rest of what I said was to propose a situation, using a recent experience, then ask questions based on it. It wasn't wasted. Regardless, you did answer my questions, and I will not assume anything except that I get what I pull. I hope other people understand the same when I am in group.

Hi Musouka

For the first few years of the life of this game raid loot didn't drop to players at all - for each raid two named items dropped and runes were given to the raid leader. This way everyone needed to roll for raid loot in order to win a rune and typically players were good natured enough to only roll for items that were good for their class. Anyone breaching this found themselves excluded from raids very quickly. As people started two manning - or soloing raids - this mechanic was changed to give each player a random chance of raid loot thereby stopping players from kitting out their toons with raid loot too quickly.

After that the players who remembered the rolling mechanic adopted the approach that if somebody couldn't use an item it went for roll for the whole party. On Lyrander and Devourer there was never a concept of friend or guild passing being acceptable, even the most hardcore guilds adhered to the use it yourself or put it for roll approach. That was also the case when Cannith was a new server. That has now changed and the typical loot allocation seems to be something like.

Yours -> your next TR -> friends -> guildees -> anyone else.

The upshot is - you should assume that unless you know differently in pugs you will only get a chance to roll for something that didn't drop for you if the person for whom it dropped would otherwise just vendor it.

You are always welcome to join The Spellbinders when we pug the last few spots of our raid - as a founder guild our guild rule is that if the person who gets an item can't use it it goes for roll to the whole party, all of our pug joiners are expected to follow this approach. It has always been that way and I hope always is.

Side

[Darknark]

As you, and pretty much everyone else has said.

Your loot is your loot. Do with it what you will. Loot it, leave it, burn it, nerf it, destroy it, vendor it, roll it, pass it, sell it, eat it.
Just assume that you have no right to anything that didn't drop under your name and you should be fine*. Things for roll are a nice bonus. But not an expectation.


If for some reason you wish to be informed of the looting practices of guilds on the server, then I shall direct you here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=302050).


*as always, there are exceptions. When you deliberately and knowing join a group under the pretense of passing 'item' to 'person' and you fail to honor your part of the aforementioned 'contract' (or deal, if that sounds better) then you should expect to be /squelched and/or anything that follows.

[Thailand_Dan]

A guildie passed me the icy rainments on my Warforged Sorc in a PuG run, and I looted it. Granted, I was capped and about to TR to an A/C build, AND we did mention it before hand if it dropped for either of us, it was going to me. However, not everyone will mention these things beforehand or afterwards. With TR, it's really hard to complain. Maybe that's the last spot of gear he wanted before TRing. Maybe the guy is just a ****, and plans to vendor it. Who knows?

This argument has been around since DDO got turned on, or at least since the current loot system was put in place. Do yourself a favor, save the headache and anxiety of it, and just take note of what drops for you.

[freekay]

Never assume that you will have a chance at other peoples loot, or even that any loot will drop at all.


Agreed. An addedum - don't cry and go running to your guild/the forums when someone chooses to pass/take/let rot the loot which is theirs. Also, proxy-rolling is dog.

[Zerkul]

There is always a new Loot thead popping up i see. When you are in a PUG you can expect everything: ninja pass, direct passage, proxy rolling, people rolling for items they will not use, etc. . Even if PUG loot rules are chaotic and listen to only one dogma "My loot is my loot, and i can do whatever i want with it" there are few exceptions: i invite you to read here if you didn't:

Cannith Guild Meetings (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3993668&postcount=1), Cannith Guilds Loot Rules (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3594855&postcount=1).

What will you read? Basically that if party leader doesn't say anything before looting, the loot rule is "My loot is my loot" but, probably, from those guilds listed in the second post, you have to expect the kind of behaviour/loot rules there listed. That's all.

Loot will always be gossip, like Beatiful for women. Just stop bringing up threads like this: they feed up trolling usually, nothing else.



Z.