Shintao set giving Incite bonus?

[sephiroth1084]

Guildy of mine posted this. Note the "Set Bonus: +15% melee threat.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8696/screenshot00008z.jpg

[porq]

So he was wearing the Defender of Siberys belt / ring set and the Shintao necklace / ring set, looked at his bio page then swapped to a different belt.

Nice try. There is no bug about that.

[Shade]

The bug is that the defender of siberys set bonus effect name is
"Set bonus" while it should be named "Defender of Siberys I"
(I because they're is a seperate bonus for having defender III, which grants "defender of siberys II"

Lots of them are named that, lazy programmers after all.

You cant read 2 differently named effects in a bio and assume there the same thing btw.. Doesn't compute.

Sintaro works as described and stacks per my set bonus guide. Has no hidden effects that i've noticed.

Guide:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=203630

[sephiroth1084]

So he was wearing the Defender of Siberys belt / ring set and the Shintao necklace / ring set, looked at his bio page then swapped to a different belt.

Nice try. There is no bug about that.
I don't see a DoS set bonus icon on his screen, do you? Unfortunately, my guildy is no longer on, but I don't appreciate your tone.


The bug is that the defender of siberys set bonus effect name is
"Set bonus" while it should be named "Defender of Siberys I"
(I because they're is a seperate bonus for having defender III, which grants "defender of siberys II"

Lots of them are named that, lazy programmers after all.

You cant read 2 differently named effects in a bio and assume there the same thing btw.. Doesn't compute.

Sintaro works as described and stacks per my set bonus guide. Has no hidden effects that i've noticed.

Guide:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=203630
Well, a guildy with the set checked it out and didn't see it, but he wasn't a monk. My guildy who posted this is (and I think he's a light sider, but not sure). I will say, that I don't see the tier III bonus of giving your fists the ability to bypass Good and Evil DR.

[J1NG]

It's a bugged shot I think. Most likely from Lamannia, I saw my Monk with it there too.

The Shintao Set in Lamannia was giving this bonus.

J1NG

[sephiroth1084]

This is a shot taken tonight. He just got the ring, put it on, and was wondering in guild chat what the deal was with the weird bonus.

[Shade]

will[/I] say, that I don't see the tier III bonus of giving your fists the ability to bypass Good and Evil DR.

No monks have contributed information about the shintao III specific bonus to my guide.. If you can confirm it actually does grant the good and evil dr bypass, please post that as a reply to my guide.

Nor have they updated the item wiki with the new official descriptions here:
http://itemwiki.cubicleninja.com/Items/ItemDetails.aspx?itemID=231

Lazy monks lol. I have the ring tho so I'll update it shortly.

But yea dude - Seperate effect name means its NOT the same effect as the shintao one. And i wear shintao set on 3 of my characters..

None of them dislay "set bonus" effect ins there bio. Perhaps having Shintao III provides this weird bugged effect instead of.. or in addtion to the dr bypass. Or it may simply be a description error due to lazy copy and pasting of code.

Far as the icon goes, im not familiar with any monk icons on his screen so i dunno. Only one I recognize is the first one, which is Shintao set bonus I. 2nd one i probably shintao II. Others, I dunno.

[Jahmin]

I can verify that the OP is correct. Shintao3 set bonus is giving (sic) %15 additional melee threat.

It is not a display error.
It is not the wrong set bonus.
It is on live now.
It is giving the +15% threat :(

It was ****ed up around the last downtime. Typical turbine :mad:


BTW - look at the SS: he clearly is NOT wearing the DoS belt :rolleyes:

[Jahmin]

If you can confirm it actually does grant the good and evil dr bypass, please post that as a reply to my guide.

It DID give this. It no longer DOES.

The display used to be no different than Frenzied I & Frenzied II for Barb18+; now turbine has borked it, and instead it is giving (sic) '%15 additional melee threat'. :rolleyes:

[Shade]

I can verify that the OP is correct. Shintao3 set bonus is giving (sic) %15 additional melee threat.

It is not a display error.
It is not the wrong set bonus.
It is on live now.
It is giving the +15% threat :(

It was ****ed up around the last downtime. Typical turbine :mad:


BTW - look at the SS: he clearly is NOT wearing the DoS belt :rolleyes:

Keep in mind that a text description does NOT mean that's actually doing anything.

Per my guide : An astounding amount of set bonus descriptions are very wrong, and actaully work differently.

So you will have to actually test this carefully against monsters to confirm that it does actaully increase threat and not do something else. Simply reading that description tells us very little other then Turbine are bad at programming and writing descriptions.

[sephiroth1084]

No monks have contributed information about the shintao III specific bonus to my guide.. If you can confirm it actually does grant the good and evil dr bypass, please post that as a reply to my guide.

Nor have they updated the item wiki with the new official descriptions here:
http://itemwiki.cubicleninja.com/Items/ItemDetails.aspx?itemID=231

Lazy monks lol. I have the ring tho so I'll update it shortly.

But yea dude - Seperate effect name means its NOT the same effect as the shintao one. And i wear shintao set on 3 of my characters..

None of them dislay "set bonus" effect ins there bio. Perhaps having Shintao III provides this weird bugged effect instead of.. or in addtion to the dr bypass. Or it may simply be a description error due to lazy copy and pasting of code.

Far as the icon goes, im not familiar with any monk icons on his screen so i dunno. Only one I recognize is the first one, which is Shintao set bonus I. 2nd one i probably shintao II. Others, I dunno.
Separate tiers of a set bonus apply as separate effects. When you wear your Frenzied Berserker set don't you see FB I, FB II? Non-Shintao monks don't seem to have this issue, which leads me to believe it is coming from the special set bonus for a full Shintao monk. Naturally, Axer, you wouldn't ever see that on your toons.


I can verify that the OP is correct. Shintao3 set bonus is giving (sic) %15 additional melee threat.

It is not a display error.
It is not the wrong set bonus.
It is on live now.
It is giving the +15% threat :(

It was ****ed up around the last downtime. Typical turbine :mad:


BTW - look at the SS: he clearly is NOT wearing the DoS belt :rolleyes:
Thanks. Now the question is whether this is simply a display error, which is incredibly difficult to determine for incite. Is it applying the Good and Evil bypass? Can you test that?

[Shade]

Separate tiers of a set bonus apply as separate effects. When you wear your Frenzied Berserker set don't you see FB I, FB II? Non-Shintao monks don't seem to have this issue, which leads me to believe it is coming from the special set bonus for a full Shintao monk. Naturally, Axer, you wouldn't ever see that on your toons.

Obviously I know that..

But your OP is not clear about that at all.

You said "Shintao Set"

Not Shintao Set for Shintao III.

[sephiroth1084]

Obviously I know that..

But your OP is not clear about that at all.

You said "Shintao Set"

Not Shintao Set for Shintao III.
I didn't specify it because I didn't have a chance to confirm that he was, in fact, a Shintao III, but that seems likely given the circumstances.

[Jahmin]

Separate tiers of a set bonus apply as separate effects. When you wear your Frenzied Berserker set don't you see FB I, FB II? Non-Shintao monks don't seem to have this issue, which leads me to believe it is coming from the special set bonus for a full Shintao monk. Naturally, Axer, you wouldn't ever see that on your toons.


Thanks. Now the question is whether this is simply a display error, which is incredibly difficult to determine for incite. Is it applying the Good and Evil bypass? Can you test that?

This.

Yes, when the Ring (or Necklace) is equiped, both effects appear - no different than when you equip Ring or Belt for Frenzy.

The Good & Evil bypass still work (devils & eladrin in RwtD), but threat generation also seems to be up (pulling agro off those that could hold it before, etc).


The OP must be Shintao since he only has one set equiped and is showing two effects.


Is it likely a display bug? Quite possibly, but it was only recently messed up :rolleyes:

[sephiroth1084]

Hate generation is difficult to assess and test, especially in small amounts like this. A 15% difference could occur through normal fluctuations in DPS, such as from a succession of lucky crits, or rolls for big procs like Lightning Strike, or whatever.

Not sure where this could be tested sufficiently. My big spot for testing aggro generation is in ToD 2, but that's hardly an environment suitable for fine tests like this.

Maybe on some epic mob with a lot of HP and without its own abilities that would screw this test up (knockdown, knockback, teleportation, etc...). Go in with someone who's DPS you've calculated to be near to yours, remove as many on-crit effects as you can (maybe even drop a lot of DPS gear to limit the effect of crits in general), start attacking at the same time with the set off and see if/when you grab aggro, then try with the set on?

I don't have a ring, or a light monk, but I'll see if I can get my guildy to join me in a test.

[porq]

I don't see a DoS set bonus icon on his screen, do you? Unfortunately, my guildy is no longer on, but I don't appreciate your tone.


Sorry I seemed harsh, but I thought you were trying to *wink* pull one over on us.

When you bring up your buff / bio window, it isn't a dynamically updated list of buffs and timers, it is a snapshot of the moment you bring it up and stays as a snapshot of that moment for as long as you have that window open. You can achieve this same 'bug' by drinking a haste pot, bringing up your buff window and noticing that the duration of haste never changes (or removes itself once it expires) for as long as that window remains open. It will refresh if you close and re-open the window.

Same could easily be done to produce a screenshot like that by hotbar swapping gear sets, but as is the case now it's just ShintaoIII set bonus is bugged. My bad :o

[Shade]

Hate generation is difficult to assess and test, especially in small amounts like this. A 15% difference could occur through normal fluctuations in DPS, such as from a succession of lucky crits, or rolls for big procs like Lightning Strike, or whatever.


Shouldn't be too hard.

Get a relatively easy monster that agro's normally and only uses melee.

Use the UI that shows the health percentage marks. Monk takes off gear and uses very low dmg attacks to carefully get it to 75%. Then you attack it to 50%, it should switch agro right as it hits 49%.

Try again with the ****ao iii seposed hate set and see if it switches agro faster.

[Shade]

mmm double post due to server errors....

[sephiroth1084]

Sorry I seemed harsh, but I thought you were trying to *wink* pull one over on us.


I'm aware of how one can perpetrate such a ruse, but did you ask yourself why I would? Man, people are too touchy!

Shouldn't be too hard.

Get a relatively easy monster that agro's normally and only uses melee.

Use the UI that shows the health percentage marks. Monk takes off gear and uses very low dmg attacks to carefully get it to 75%. Then you attack it to 50%, it should switch agro right as it hits 49%.
That could work. I haven't tried out all the UI options for stuff like this so I ahdn't thought about it. I'll see if my guildy can try this out with me



Try again with the ****ao iii seposed hate set and see if it switches agro faster.
Heh heh! The amusing results of a mis-type.

[Relenthe]

This couldn't be the defender of sibery's set as in the top right corner it is showing 2 concentration icons (the graphic for shintao set bonuses, which do update instantaneously as you change your gear).

[mattysixEU]

am i the only one who wonders how do you have a toon with 15kpp with the 3 piece abishai set? :P

[Jahmin]

This couldn't be the defender of sibery's set as in the top right corner it is showing 2 concentration icons (the graphic for shintao set bonuses, which do update instantaneously as you change your gear).

Not to mention the rather glaringly obvious fact that he is wearing the Epic Dragon belt and therefore simply CANNOT have the DoS set equiped :rolleyes:

[sephiroth1084]

So, we tried a test...

Went into EVoN 1, cleared everything but one troll and Exillen set about beating it down to about 50-40% of its HP. Then we let it heal back up to full, and I set about beating on it until aggro switched. If he was getting extra incite then the troll should switch aggro much further down on its HP, but seemed to focus on me at right around the same HP mark.

This seems to indicate the the incite bonus is merely a visual bug, which makes sense since the set bonus isn't showing up for bypassng DR Good and Evil.

We had also done a similar test on the way in on one of the hobgobs, wherehe beat it down to about 60% health and then I started in on it to see if it switched before it died. It did switch.

[Xeraphim]

Shinato Monk typically wants aggro anyway.

I would be happy if the Incite Bonus were there on it.

[Khellendros13]

So, we tried a test...

Went into EVoN 1, cleared everything but one troll and Exillen set about beating it down to about 50-40% of its HP. Then we let it heal back up to full, and I set about beating on it until aggro switched. If he was getting extra incite then the troll should switch aggro much further down on its HP, but seemed to focus on me at right around the same HP mark.

This seems to indicate the the incite bonus is merely a visual bug, which makes sense since the set bonus isn't showing up for bypassng DR Good and Evil.

We had also done a similar test on the way in on one of the hobgobs, wherehe beat it down to about 60% health and then I started in on it to see if it switched before it died. It did switch.

You need a control. As you may have more DPS.

Same mob, same % oh health, but with and without Shintao set,

With Shintao set on, no yugo pot, no rage, no +2 competence to-hit.

Without Shintao, use rage, yugo pot and +2 competence to-hit.

This way his DPS and to-hit do no change, only the possible 15% incite.

[sephiroth1084]

You need a control. As you may have more DPS.

Same mob, same % oh health, but with and without Shintao set,

With Shintao set on, no yugo pot, no rage, no +2 competence to-hit.

Without Shintao, use rage, yugo pot and +2 competence to-hit.

This way his DPS and to-hit do no change, only the possible 15% incite.
For this kind of test DPSecond shouldn't matter, only total damage. As far as I know, most monsters don't shed built up aggro, so however you manage to deal half the monster's HP should be the same as however the other guy is draining the monster's HP.

Also, my DPS was definitely less, as he was stunning the mobs and beating them down quickly to about 50%, while I was slowing way down and being careful once I was getting near 50% to see exactly when aggro switched.

[Khellendros13]

For this kind of test DPSecond shouldn't matter, only total damage. As far as I know, most monsters don't shed built up aggro, so however you manage to deal half the monster's HP should be the same as however the other guy is draining the monster's HP.

Also, my DPS was definitely less, as he was stunning the mobs and beating them down quickly to about 50%, while I was slowing way down and being careful once I was getting near 50% to see exactly when aggro switched.

You are right, I wasn't thinking straight (stupid work).

[sephiroth1084]

You are right, I wasn't thinking straight (stupid work).
It's okay, I won't hold it against you...too much. :p