Battle of the high-AC bards: HE w/monk dilly vs dwarf w/shield - FIGHT!

[unbongwah]

Recent threads like Shieldsinger got me wondering: which bard could hit higher AC - the half-elf with the monk Dilettante feat or the dwarf who loaded up on Armor Mastery and used a shield?

I'll post builds later; for now, let's look at some hypothetical AC numbers. I'm presuming both are of the TWF rogue 2 / ftr 2 / bard 16 mold and have Combat Expertise. For this comparison, I'll make the HE Finesse-based to really crank up the AC numbers. Here's what I came up with using NON-epic gear:

HE w/monk dilly
10 base
12 DEX 34 (base 16 + 5 lvl-ups + 2 tome + 1 rogue enh + 2 racial enh + 2 ship buff + 6 item)
5 WIS 20 (base 13 + 1 HE enh + 6 item)
4 Icy Raiments (Dodge)
1 Alchemical ritual (armor)
3 Chattering Ring (Dodge)
4 Insight (Shroud)
5 Protection item
8 Armor Bracers
4 Shield spell
5 Combat Expertise
3 Barkskin potion
1 Haste spell
3 airship buff
4 Inspire Heroics
72 Self-buffed AC
5 Paladin aura
2 Recitation
2 Barkskin spell from ranger 12+
81 party-buffed AC

Dwarf
10 base
8 DEX 26 (base 15 + 2 tome + 1 rogue enh + 2 ship buff + 6 item)
10 mithril breastplate +5
1 Alchemical ritual (armor)
8 Light & Darkness (mithril large shield)
1 Alchemical ritual (shield)
3 Chattering Ring (Dodge)
2 Chaosgarde (Dodge)
4 Insight (Shroud)
6 Superior Stability (L&D)
5 Combat Expertise
3 Barkskin potion
1 Haste spell
3 airship buff
4 Inspire Heroics
69 Self-buffed AC
5 Paladin aura
2 Recitation
2 Barkskin spell from ranger 12+
78 party-buffed AC

So in this case, the HE comes out ahead, but I'm sure I'm missing out on stuff. And I don't have a clue how to pick optimal epic gear. Any suggestions?

[unbongwah]

reserved for builds

[unbongwah]

reserved just in case

[bartosy]

can make the dwarf true neutral that gives him +6 to prot and resist from light and darkness.

and dwarven armor mastery gives them a bit more ac with that kind of dex bonus

there also got good dr wtih shields in there enh line and natural got more hp

I still think the dwarf would make a better tank overall its not just ac that makes a tank.

edit

dwarfs also got giant dodger wich gives them +4 ac vs giants spell and poison save bonus

dwarven axes for more damage and axe atk enh for a bit of hate then again the half elves got its uses also more charisma means more intimdate more cooldown uses etc etc..

overall i would think the dwarven path is the most sturdy one but the half elfs got there good points too..

[grodon9999]

Add in 3 more natural for Air ship buffage.

[unbongwah]

can make the dwarf true neutral that gives him +6 to prot and resist from light and darkness.

Add in 3 more natural for Air ship buffage.
Good catches - added. :)

and dwarven armor mastery gives them a bit more ac with that kind of dex bonus It would with med & hvy armor; but are there better light armors to go with? Would, say, DT leather be a better choice? Or should I sacrifice Evasion when in full AC mode?

I guess what I'm after: ignoring all the things which would be identical on both builds - i.e., CE, Heroics, Barkskin, etc. - where would their AC gear differ? That's where my head starts swimming: trying to figure out the optimal gear.

[voodoogroves]

Can you even heroics yourself?

[karl_k0ch]

This is the breakdown of Purgatory's 'chanter (16/2/2 dwarf), his screenshot shows 79 AC.


OR this

10 base
13 armor (epic demon scale +7)
9 dex (filling out epic demon scale with dwarfen enhancents 28 dex)
+10 shield (epic kundric shield +7 and greater arcane casting dex)
+7 natural armor bonus (+5 from chimera crown +2 ship buffs)
+6 deflection bonus (Epic ring silver concord add +1 exp chr for +8 chr ring too)
+4 insight on Green steal item
+4 dodge ( item chaose guards or marbar event cloak, 1 feat, 1 from ship buffs)
+2 rituals
+4 bard song
+5 CE
+3 chatering ring
-------------------------------------
77 AC beholder ac

+1 haste
----------------------
78
----------------------
double haste from triple air hp item (yes it stacks for ac and goes of fairly reg from grazing hits)

79
================================================== =

Out side buffs
+2 recitation
+5 paldin aura
-------------------------------------------------------
86! with evasion

The wiki does not provide any info about how high the maxdex mod of the Epic Red Dragonscale Armors are.

[unbongwah]

Can you even heroics yourself?
AFAIK Competence and Freedom are the only songs you can't sing to yourself.

[Bilger]

Can you even heroics yourself?


Yes!!

[bartosy]

Good catches - added. :)
It would with med & hvy armor; but are there better light armors to go with? Would, say, DT leather be a better choice? Or should I sacrifice Evasion when in full AC mode?

I guess what I'm after: ignoring all the things which would be identical on both builds - i.e., CE, Heroics, Barkskin, etc. - where would their AC gear differ? That's where my head starts swimming: trying to figure out the optimal gear.

i would make 2 armors your probably gonna be warchanter II because it will give intim bonus wich will also gives you med armor prof take a medium for ac tanking and light for all other stuf/ tanking. Im not 100% certain but im pretty sure dt leather gives higher ac bonus then a +5 mith chain but could be verry wrong there. But even if it gives equal you can still slot some interesting stuf in dt wich you cant in a chain.

[Tuney]

I know Dragon touched medium and heavy are the same ac as a Mitheral Breastplate/Full plate just the +2 max dex bonus that Mith would have given is put into base AC. But most people who cared about ac only ever pays attention to the Robe/Vestaments (I perfer robe for the looks) or the Full plate.

[unbongwah]

Im not 100% certain but im pretty sure dt leather gives higher ac bonus then a +5 mith chain but could be verry wrong there.
MBP +5 is AC 10 / MDB 5; DT leather is 8 / 7 (i.e., effectively studded leather +5 w/+2 MDB). So that's a wash. OTOH, if I go with med armors, DT breastplate is 12 / 3; Epic Marilith Chain is 13 / 4.