Tank Chanter

[IncubusAcidicus]

16/2/2 Horc bard/ftr/barb

Starting Stats
STR 20
DEX 8
CON 18
INT 6
WIS 8
CHA 6


STR- 20 +5 levels + 6item + 3exc + 3 abashi + 1 enhance +2 tome +2 yugo +6 raged + 2 rage spell = 50 self buffed
+2 ship +4 (2xmadstone) +8 scourge choker = possible 64 temp str

(rough math says around +120 dmg roll per hit when properly geared, power attack, ESoS, ect)

CON- 18 + 7 item + 3exc + 1litany +2 tome + 1 enhance

32 standing
+4 rage barb, +2 rage spell, +4 yugo +2 ship
44 self buffed

Madstone x2 +scourge choker = possible 56 temp con

all other stats dump. yes that means starting with a 6 cha on a bard. you dont need it. get over it.

Skills Max UMD and Perform. Make sure you get to a 14 Balance when buffed (or base if you prefer) rest is up to you. Concentration i suppose is the next most logical. Go ahead and eat that int tome so you can get max swim.....

FEATS:
1: Toughness
2: (FTR) Weapon Focus: Slashing
3:Power Attack
6: Extend Spell
9: Toughness
12: Toughness
15:Toughness
16: (FTR) Imp Crit: slash
18: Toughness

alternatively you could take 40 less hp and get maximize and quicken to have better healing capability as well as have the option to respec as spell singer if your group needs dictate.

ENHANCEMENTS:
Bard Inspired Attack 3
Bard Inspired Bravery 3
Bard Inspired Damage 3
Bard Lingering Song 2
Bard Cha 1
Bard Wand Mastery 1
Bard War Chanter 2
Barbarian Power Attack 1
Barbarian Sprint Boost 1
Barbarian Toughness 1
Barbarian Con 1
Barbarian Extra Rage 1
Barbarian Extended Rage 1
Fighter Haste Boost 1
Orc Power Rage 2
Orcish Melee Damage 2
Orcish Power Attack 3
Orcish Strength 1
Orc Brute Fighting 4
Racial Toughness 2

(Ive tweeked these so many times now i think i added those up correctly pls let me know if i made a mistake)

Tanking Gear (All Epics, Brute Fighting ON)
Helm of Frost + Boots of Corrosion + Envenomed Cloak for 3 piece abishai
Gloves + Bracers Claw
Frenzied Ring + Belt
Shintao Ring + Necklace
Litany
Shroud Hp Goggles
Sword of Shadows
DT Robe 10/15/20 incite

Non Tank Gear (Brutal Fighting OFF)
Helm of Frost + Boots of Corrosion + Envenomed Cloak for 3 piece abishai
Gloves + Bracers Claw
Frenzied Ring + Belt
Shintao Ring + Necklace
Litany
Sword of Shadows
Tharnes Goggles/ Shroud CHA skills+sp goggles swap as needed
DT Robe 10/20 Healing amp + Tharnes

HP 140 class/lvls, 20 heroic, 220 con (base 32con before rage/yugo/buffs) 30 gfl, 20 toughness item, 103 toughnessx5, 20 racial II, 10 barb toughness I, 45 shroud. 10 agents

618 standing unbuffed
barb rage +40
spell rage +20
yugo +40
ship +20

738 self buffed
-20 if maximize is taken
-20 if quicken is taken

2x madstone + Scourge Choker = 858 potential max hp



the logic

as far as umd, i get ranks 23, 4cha (6base +2 tome +7helm +1 litany +2ship) 4gh, 2/3? bunny hat = 33/34, +6 cha skills/sp goggles can be swapped in from hp+conc opp or tharnes goggles when i need to step back and be a no fail healer for a group. which means 6 starting cha = all you need.

which means a warchanter that can out max dps with eSoS/minII and be able to even tank on horoth elite, and epic bosses, with over 738 self buffed hp. so even if he is not main tank he will stay alive long enough to make that dps count.

i realize im losing out on 6 spell pen with this build, but i am pretty sure i will still be able to make ottos irresist land enough to matter when its needed. all the raids and epics my guild runs will have 1-2 archmages in the group to handle most of the cc anyway, and 1-3 healers (depending on group size, epics/raids) so my healing will only come secondary as an added bonus say against horoth or abashi dev throwin scrolls or the occasional mass cure mod + pot chugging as needed when we are 1 healer short.

Respectably high dps, extremely high hp, and only +1 hit/dmg short of max line of bard songs and bard buffs.

[Nephilia]

Litany and might of abishaii are both profane bonus so they shouldn't stack ;)

[wax_on_wax_off]

Why not stay pure? Feats wise, you are down only 40 HP. Class wise you are down 30 HP. Still over 650 HP. What does your splash really get you?

Alternatively, if I was going to make a tank/warchanter it would be by splashing rogue 2 and fighter 2. I would want to cap intimidate (as well as hate generation). Half-orc is a natural choice. Evasion will add a lot to your potential to tank - much more than barbarian. Rather than extra toughness, why not consider shield mastery? Some bosses which are best intimidated will really make shield mastery worthwhile for really lowering incoming damage.

I would definitely want to consider quicken + empower healing and/or maximise. Being able to push out some emergency healing on yourself or a party is very valuable. Being able to heal yourself and not have to be babysitted is even more valuable (as you can't rely on heal scrolls due to concentration checks).

How high can you get your intimidate? It should be quite possible to get it up to the 79 required for elite HoX. Can you do that? I imagine that it would require a 6 point investment into charisma at least. Don't dump dexterity, reflex saves are important.

Really, if you want to tank, at least be able to heal yourself, what's the point in a bard tank if it is just as SP spongey as the rest of the barb tanks out there?

[IncubusAcidicus]

Litany and might of abishaii are both profane bonus so they shouldn't stack ;)

take another look. i have abishai only listed on str, litany is only listed on con. 3 piece abishai set only gives 3 str so i left it off of con.

i hear the evasion arguement. i hear the 2 rogue arguement. i dont care. doing barb gives more hp and more dps (synergizing with HORC). i never said this wouldnt be as much of a sponge as every other barbarian hate tank out there. all i am saying is that 1 toon can fill the roll of 2 party slots, thereby opening another dps party slot. which adds alot more dps than +1 dmg to ever1 in the raid group.

i did say that quicken and maximize (emp healing also an option) were alternative uses to 2 of the toughness feats. a route i may very well take (so far this toon is only lvl15 still have time to decide)

[Purgatory]

1. using ugo con pots on a tank = dead party you not gona keep agro no way no how
2. only see this build working if you have barb past life and use the purchasable past life to extend your 2 rages and add additional +4 str and +4 con. for three 4 min rages, three 2 min rages wont be enuf.
3. using boots to fit in 3 abishi peices = you lose it when u do tod
4. why not plan for marlith chain, or atleast use ment googles for +4 seeker when tanking, tharnes will not do you any good while tanking.
5. I don't see this build holding agro against other geared out classes.
6. are you able to have brute fighting and power attack on same time?
7. with out extend your haste, and rage and focus chant will be to short. why even be a bard then...
8. Maxamize is almost a non option since you have no enhancements to healing spell
9, quicken is non option as with no extend and no enchanments to healing what are you going to quicken cast? crapy haste and rage? use clicky it last just aslong...
10. your song legnth with only lingering 2 will be fairly short, with all your other short duration on buffs you be spending alot of time just rebuffing or just letting it run out = lot loss dps for yourself and the rest of the party. Can't hold agro if your buffing not swinging...

[bartosy]

5. I don't see this build holding agro against other geared out classes.


all 10 points are good tho but this one springs out for me personally. If (epic) items will be your crutch its a matter of time till you find people who are just as epiced out as you are, but are actually geared and classed for pure dps

[IncubusAcidicus]

1. using ugo con pots on a tank = dead party you not gona keep agro no way no how

2. only see this build working if you have barb past life and use the purchasable past life to extend your 2 rages and add additional +4 str and +4 con. for three 4 min rages, three 2 min rages wont be enuf.

3. using boots to fit in 3 abishi peices = you lose it when u do tod

4. why not plan for marlith chain, or atleast use ment googles for +4 seeker when tanking, tharnes will not do you any good while tanking.

5. I don't see this build holding agro against other geared out classes.
6. are you able to have brute fighting and power attack on same time?

7. with out extend your haste, and rage and focus chant will be to short. why even be a bard then...

8. Maxamize is almost a non option since you have no enhancements to healing spell

9, quicken is non option as with no extend and no enchanments to healing what are you going to quicken cast? crapy haste and rage? use clicky it last just aslong..
.
10. your song legnth with only lingering 2 will be fairly short, with all your other short duration on buffs you be spending alot of time just rebuffing or just letting it run out = lot loss dps for yourself and the rest of the party. Can't hold agro if your buffing not swinging...

1 fair enough. -40hp, or give me an extra 15 sec alone to build aggro
2 i have considered this as well. i rolled a new toon to see how it works without. have a toon i can TR to this build with a barb and pally PL. def an option
3 very true. 1 raid -3 str
4 hp goggs were listed for tanking. was going to see how the extra 45% incite worked out before investing in a marilith scroll
5yet to be seen. brute fighting + 45% incite from DT will add alot of aggro generation to a 52+ str SoSer
6 good point i dont actually know havent tested yet
7 extend purchased at lvl 6
8 i will rework enhancements and see if i can fit it in. quite possibly replace brute fighting line if its unworkable with power attack
9 see 7 and 8
10 again, yet to be seen. drop dps to sing once in mid of fight should be non issue

i most certainly understand that i will NEVER convince a bard purist that building a bard that is only missing the final +1/+1 that lvl 20 gets, as well as 6 spell pen in order to gain a huge dps boost and the ability to tank when called upon is worth it. not even going to try. simply presenting a build idea for critique for those of us who want to play a bard this way.

let me be VERY clear that the main goal of this bard is NOT to tank. the main goal of this bard is to have a very high dps toon who can also provide bard buffs/songs and have a ton of hp, meaning he can stand in the pack during any fight in the game and go blow for blow and not die to a lag spike, a missed heal, a stray meteor swarm, or some1 not calling smoke smoke at velah (as examples). the point is high dps, high hp, high survivability, and a support toon who can potentially tank when called upon all rolled into one

[rest]

I built a similar bard as a wf a year and a half ago. He is always welcome at endgame. Thought about TRing him into a horc, but I'm lazy. Plus I like all the immunities he gets as a WF. He's not as epcially geared out as I'd like, but he does alright. Healing amp is finally enough that I get more from a self cast heal scroll than a self cast recon scroll. I have more cha than your build (for intim), and less str (simply because WF cap out at 18 instead of 20), but i'd say he holds his own. I also didn't take that many toughness feats.

Standing HP is 611. 631 with a +1 guild shrine (his con is odd). 651 with rage spell (so I can still cast) I've seen him cap out at 781 (i think) with double madstone. No choker.

[wax_on_wax_off]

6 good point i dont actually know havent tested yet

I have brute fighting and power attack and it works fine, why wouldn't it?


i most certainly understand that i will NEVER convince a bard purist that building a bard that is only missing the final +1/+1 that lvl 20 gets, as well as 6 spell pen in order to gain a huge dps boost and the ability to tank when called upon is worth it. not even going to try. simply presenting a build idea for critique for those of us who want to play a bard this way.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, many people who I would call bard purists play splash bards because that best reflects the class of bards and increases the utility and other aspects in a way that suits them (DPS/survivability). Nobody who understands the bard class would suggest that you can't build a tank with a bard, nor would they suggest that such a build should be pure, you need the feats and survivability that a splash brings.

Please, if you want to build a tank, build in evasion, it will increase the amount of raids that you can tank and your general survivability much more than 12 HP and some crappy rages. Also, if you want to build a tank, build in epic/elite viable intimidate (~79 needed for everything). It is possible to build all of this in without sacrificing your survivability or your DPS - the two things you say you want to do well.


let me be VERY clear that the main goal of this bard is NOT to tank. the main goal of this bard is to have a very high dps toon who can also provide bard buffs/songs and have a ton of hp, meaning he can stand in the pack during any fight in the game and go blow for blow and not die to a lag spike, a missed heal, a stray meteor swarm, or some1 not calling smoke smoke at velah (as examples). the point is high dps, high hp, high survivability, and a support toon who can potentially tank when called upon all rolled into one

I don't think that gimping basic class abilities to give bad play leniency is a good strategy.

A pure warchanter with eSoS will probably have higher DPS over a raid than your toon (not having to stop swinging to rebuff etc).

An evasion capable bard intimi/hate tank will likely have better survivability (don't underestimate evasion and bards have naturally high reflex saves).

A rogue splashed bard will probably have higher DPS than you when you don't have aggro (sneak attack).

All in all, this is a nice attempt to make a barbarian with a bard icon and a nice flavour build, good luck :)

[Slink]

If I had a character geared out with the epic gear you have listed I sure as HELL wouldnt make it a bard and if it were a bard it would be TR in short order.

[FaSo]

[QUOTE=IncubusAcidicus;3559882]
5yet to be seen. brute fighting + 45% incite from DT will add alot of aggro generation to a 52+ str SoSer
/Quoted]

with this though u run it to the issue when you have a pure FB barb or fighter with ether defender with more hate Gen. Or kensei doing more dps with the same hate.

Like some others have said, if you had to get epic gear for a toon I would not be choseing a build like this. The build will be a bit of a one trick poney. For example, my warchanter ATM can melee(now I will say not as much dmg as this build, but its close) and will have longer WC songs, more songs, will have alot more SP for healing raids or just general grps, and has more sp aswell has more sp for haste, rage, ECT. And has longer hastes


But these are just my two cents

Thanks
Faso