Can't you just say no?

[Thuldorn]

First off my play schedule simply doesn't allow me to join a big guild (I'm in a guild with my son who doesn't play much anymore (*&^% XBox), I simply can't commit to a regular schedule. So obvioulsy I solo or PUG a lot. I made level 20 (two different toons) a couple months back. I know they're are a lot of folks who even when pugging want to stick with the same folks, that doesn't bother me.

Here's my whine for the day. If someone answers your LFM can't you just give an answer in a reasonable time? I sent a tell for a raid (at that time it was at 6/12 no arcanes), I usually send tells instead of just clicking join since I usually get asked a bunch of do you have this spell/gear kind of questions. I waited a few minutes and sent another tell (I know how fast stuff can scroll by) we're now up to 7/12, and I get a response back something like "I'm thinking". I let another 10 minutes go by (it's a slow night not much going on) -it's now 9/12. I send another tell, we do the question dance and the person tells me to hit the LFM. So I hit "Join" and wait....and wait..and I'm watching the LFM and after a couple minutes it goes to 10/12 and a few more minutes later it's 11/12 and then a few minutes later I get the system message telling me I was rejected because the group was full. Now it was a good 7 minutes from the time I was told to click join till the last two spots actually filled up. I sent the guy a short tell politely telling him it wasn't cool to keep me hanging for 20 minutes and I get a response back "Sorry dude I was AFKish and it just filled up", really? really?

I can understand if you don't want my class or just don't recognize me or whatever just say No, just say "No, I don't like Sorcerer's" or "No, I heard you were a jerk", or "No I don't like names that start with T" whatever your reason for not wanting me in your group just say so, don't keep me hanging for 20 minutes (now normally I won't wait more than 5 minutes but it was a really slow night).

Well at least he said something, there are so many folks who simply never respond to "Do you want..." tells or bother to click reject on a join request. I don't know how many times I've hit a join for one group, a couple minutes later no response so I hit a join for another, get in, and half way through (i.e. probably 30 minutes later) get the "you have been rejected because the group is full" message.

Telling someone "No" doesn't have to be a traumatic thing, don't be afraid to say no to someone! it's better than wasting there time.

[SardaofChaos]

I have encountered the silent leaders multiple times. Never hung around long enough to see whether or not the group filled up without me though.

Also, it's 'their'.

[cdemeritt]

/agreed.

Been there/Done that.... Sometimes even being in a large well known strong guild doesn't help.....

If I don't get a answer in a reasonable time I go do something else...

[Therigar]

No!

Did that make you happy? :D

It did? :eek:

[Cairo]

I like the ones that have any class flagged, and im the same level as the leader, and i click it with a self-sufficient, decently-equipped character, and.. nothing.

So then I move on, go shopping, re-do spells or something, after 5-10 minutes, I join another group, and as we head into the quest, I look @ the LFM, and the first group is still there.

And theyre still there when my group finishes.

I like that cause it means I dodged a bullet. :D

[FrozenNova]

Never hung around long enough to see whether or not the group filled up without me though.
Sentence fragment.

In all seriousness if he was filling that fast it was probably because people were using the lfm in the conventional sense. If the leader plans on screening you before accepting I can't quite see how asking to join as a tell will help the matter.

[SardaofChaos]

Sentence fragment.

In all seriousness if he was filling that fast it was probably because people were using the lfm in the conventional sense. If the leader plans on screening you before accepting I can't quite see how asking to join as a tell will help the matter.

Going there are we :P I would argue that sentence fragments aren't as bad as mixing up they're/there/their because it's understood what the missing noun is whereas the 'thes' completely change the meaning of a sentence. The one is readable whereas the other has a jolt in the middle.


On topic, asking to join as a tell usually communicates to the leader that you at least have some form of higher brain function, unlike the large amount of people who just randomly click on LFMs without reading them.
EDIT: Note: this does not refer to people who simply click on LFMs because they cba to send a tell for whatever reason. Just those who click on the first LFM they see regardless of whether they actually fit said LFM.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

If someone answers your LFM can't you just give an answer in a reasonable time? I sent a tell for a raid (at that time it was at 6/12 no arcanes)

Well I'd ignore you for that... I'm usually busy while the group is forming, and you didn't respond to the LFM so why would I respond?

[QUOTE I waited a few minutes and sent another tell (I know how fast stuff can scroll by) we're now up to 7/12[/QUOTE]

A second tell? /squelch

Next time click the LFM. If there is no response in 60 seconds, decide what else you'd like to do instead.

[phillymiket]

I used to send /tells a lot now I just hit the LFM.
Seems to get a faster more positive response.

If there are questions they can ask.
If there is the possibility of misunderstanding I'll say something after I join like "I'm a dark monk btw" or "I'm a melee FVS".
If they don't want that I'll drop no hard feelings.

In fact, the melee FVS is why I stopped sending /tells.
Whenever I sent a /tell saying I was a WF Lord of Blades I would get refused or, usually, just no response.
If I didn't think I could fill the roll of healer I wouldn't join. I know that's what they are mostly looking for. You don't need a full-on double-rainbow healbot for most things.

If you can do the quest, just hit the LFM. Forget the /tells.

[AndyD47]

I always send a tell first (something like "want a 10 rogue?").
Its a good sounding board if you like to PUG alot.
Some people can't be bothered to update a lfm or what have you,so being very clear on what a party wants has saved me alot more trouble than it has caused.

DDO is a game that will see you killed very quickly if you can't communicate,a simple "sure" will go a long way in making me have a hope at success.:)

[Daggertooth]

Edited this.. not sure if anyone understood a word of it..

Best to just not even look back after hitting an LFM, just assume that the guy is dealing with many different issues as a group leader...

I will say this.. that after I hit join for a raid a few days ago and got a tell from the leader telling me that he was waiting for a guildie to finish VOD to see if he was off the timer (guess he might not have picked up end reward etc).... I was a little taken aback after I found out that the leader had kept 11 people waiting for like 20 minutes (with the LFM up that whole time, apparently he wanted a bigger selection of people to keep hanging while everyone waited with baited breath while the All Mighty Guildy finished VOD to see if he was off timer)

[donfilibuster]

It's still polite that the group leader send a reply if been "AFKish", but can't really complain if don't.
No need to send a second tell, they either reply to all or none, since there might be a long queue while afk.

[Schmoe]

OP, we should form a support group. We could call it the "Waiting at the altar" club.

[Lorz]

Well I'd ignore you for that... I'm usually busy while the group is forming, and you didn't respond to the LFM so why would I respond?
, I waited a few minutes and sent another tell (I know how fast stuff can scroll by) we're now up to 7/12'

A second tell? /squelch

Next time click the LFM. If there is no response in 60 seconds, decide what else you'd like to do instead.

Some people are really full of themselves and rather rude.

[rahubby]

If they're on the LFM and have your class flagged, and you're in the level range they've set, it's perfectly acceptable to just click in instead of sending a tell. They can see your class and level in the system message anyway.

Some team leaders actually prefer to NOT get tells. I know that sometimes I'm relying on the autoreply function to keep track of someone the party needs (like a cleric who's in the middle of soloing something, or the team leader of a second group running DQ1 that we're going to merge with for DQ2, for example) and random tells mess that up.

[Kelavam]

I think what we have here is a varying of opinions as to what, exactly, to expect from an LFM.

From reading the forums, everyone seems to have different expectations of what the LFM actually requires or entails. Some people like the /tell, some people will /squelch it. Some people want to open up an LFM and see how many people show interest. Some people accept the first x number of people to request and run with the quest. Some people expect a certain party make-up, some people will run with whomever joins first.

The LFM options are limited. It is hard to tell what each individual party leader is looking for. Sometimes they post comments, sometimes they do not. Sometimes the LFM's make no sense or are unclear as to what is being asked for.

I have posted quite a few LFMs and am always amazed at the different ways people approach the LFM. There really could be a more clear way to post an LFM. But there is not standard. So what is good for one person, is bad for another. What some people deem perfectly normal, other people deem it squelch worthy.

Personally, I try to add people as quickly as the apply. If I go afk, I post that in the comments and try to give a time frame, so if they do request, they know how long they may end up waiting. If someone /tells, I try my best to respond. But things do scroll by fast, and if I am not paying attention, take off my headset for a quick phonecall and do not hear the ding of the tell, I miss some people. And I have gotten a few nasty 2nd tells when the group fills up because I never even saw the tell in the first place. And apologizing does not seem to go very far with some people. I am not really a jerk, it just appears that way sometimes. :)

-=-=-=-

To make my point.. last night, I was scrolling through the LFMs as I was waiting for guildies to show up, and one caught my eye in particular. The only thing it said was, "no bullsh players". Which, of course, made me curious enough to ask what he defined as a "bullsh" player. I never got back a response. But if you asked that question here in the forums, you would get 20 different definitions of what that is. :)

It's all point of view.

[sparty55]

When I put up an lfm I Expect people to click on the lfm. If I want you - I will accept you, if I don't want you I will decline you. It's that simple. I have heard from many people from different MMOs that this game has the best/simplest grouping mechanic of them all yet people still try to form groups in general chat and over complicate things by sending tells. This is why I rarely put up lfms any more (much to my guildies chagrin).

[Chai]

I would have joined another group by then.

Dude was basically using you as an insurance policy if he couldnt fill the raid.

[Razcar]

While I too find it both irritating and impolite to be "put on hold" without any comments, if you have been on the other side you will find that there often is a reason - even if it is not an entirely "good" one.

And no, it's not the problem with juggling requirements and guildies and puggers and channel people, but that if you would decline someone, for whatever reason, even with a /tell explaining why, you will often get a lot of lip.

And that's not what you want to fill up your chat screen with when trying to get a group together so that it will be a fun run for everyone. They don't understand that it's not a one-to-one conversation, but that the leader is busy with getting the raid together and do not have the time to discuss their 8 FvS/5 cleric/7 barb applying for a Healer role, or the reasons why they have ninja-looted scrolls in every epic they have been in.

So it can be easier to take the coward's way out and just try to avoid confrontation, sad but true.

[bryanmeerkat]

Just click join in the lfm , if they want to be a quizmaster let them do it afterwards .
I try not towait on anyone , if I click lfm and they dont except me within a minute i move on.
Of cource i have the good fortune of mostly rnnng clerics and FVs and hardly ever get turned away .

[tihocan]

I'm not saying the leader was right, but as someone who regularly puts LFMs up... please hit join instead of sending a tell, unless you really have a good reason to send a tell (e.g. holding a spot while switching characters, or willing to join an LFM you do not qualify for but think you may still help with).
Receiving tells is distracting when you are already quite busy forming your group with the right classes, holding spots for various people, answering questions from your other party members, telling people where to go, getting yourself ready, etc.

Oh, on a totally unrelated subject: having an irregular play schedule does not prevent you from joining a guilds. There are lots of guilds who don't care about when their members are on.

[madmaxhunter]

I agree with the other posters. If your toon fits the lfm, just join. If not, send /tell. Really irks me when I have an lfm up for level 18-20 Shroud run, only cleric/fvs selected and get a join request from a level 15 rogue. Even in that case I'll send them a polite /tell telling them that I only need medics now.

Of course, last time I did that I got a /tell back saying "but I just flagged for Shroud!" ? lol, not my problem. Not like there isn't at least 2-10 lfms up for Shroud per hour.

[unionyes]

It's not online dating or a job application process.

It's a temporary grouping to do a quest. If it works out well, maybe we will all stay together (or most of us) to do another quest.

I don't usually send a tell first, unless the LFM says to do so. I just hit the join button. If they ask me a bunch of questions I answer, usually. It's really pretty casual.

If they ignore me, that's fine. It isn't like I have a lot invested in the potential group on a personal level. If they fill with others, then I just assume that they maybe know the person, or it's a guildy or a friend or both and I move on with my life. If they fill with others and it's because someone in the group, maybe on an alt, played with me before and didn't enjoy it, that's fine too because I probably wouldn't enjoy running with them again either.

Life is too short to sit there waiting for someone to respond to your request to join. If they don't respond right away, then move on.

[EyeRekon]

Being a a party leader can be quite uncomfortable. It takes you back to your school days where you were picking people for your team. Depending on the sport and who was still available you'd pick different people, and some would be last picks and have their feelings hurt.

In general just hit the LFM and don't start off with a /tell unless you want a slot reserved for one of your other toons before you switch. If the party leader is unsure about you, there may be some dialog. Leaders tend to enjoy being leaders, so if you see someone who often leads things you want to run but you never seem to get in, you need to figure out how to get them more familiar with you.

Compound that with the fact that people, for some reason, seldom read LFM text. You may put up an LFM saying "reserved" or "Guild X only" and unexpected people keep hitting it. You tend to get numb to their nagging and tells and just ignore them. They're wasting your time. These people I have no problem leaving hanging.

Sometimes you neglected to update the desired classes and someone of a class you no longer need hits it. You may not send them a tell, may not Decline to avoid a dialog, you just change the LFM in front of their face.

Other times you are waiting on some people who you have pledged slots, but they are taking a long time. So you change your LFM to say that you are enrolling alternates. Meaning that they may get chosen if you give up on the original members.

[Thrudh]

(1) If you meet the requirements of the LFM, just hit Join... Do NOT send tells to a leader asking if you can join with your level 15 wizard, when he has all classes selected levels 14-16... This is hugely annoying to party leaders and makes you look like an idiot.

(2) I hate leaders who don't decline.... Extremely rude to leave people hanging... Either take them or hit decline.

Usually, after sending a join request, if I'm ignored for more than 30-45 seconds... I'll send a tell stating... "Hey I sent a join request you may have missed it". If that doesn't get a response in 30 seconds, I'm out of there... I start looking at the LFMs for another group I can join after the first 30 seconds...

When I'm leading, I usually just take the first 5 that want to come along, so this doesn't come up for me very much, but if I do decline someone, I always send them a tell explaining why (Usually it's, "Sorry someone else asked to join before you... luck to you!"

[Thrudh]

If you can do the quest, just hit the LFM. Forget the /tells.

This.

[Impaqt]

Stop sending tells and just hit the freakin LFM.

The classes I'm looking for are clearly stated.

I'm generally dealing with multiple chat channels in game.. Guild.. Raid Channels..... Tells from friends.. all kinds of stuff...

When you hit my LFM, I can at least see your Guild.

Yes, I sometimes make decisions based on a players guild when I dont recognize the name.

People I dont know rarely get accepted or even a response from a random tell when I have an LFM up.

My Time is just as valuable as yours. WHy waste time by sending unasked for tells when the LFM says whats going on.. Just hit it.

[eonfreon]

Getting no reply or waiting for a reply has never bothered me.

The only thing I find annoying is that I can't rescind a request to join a group. If I want to do something else and hit another LFM, it's annoying if the first guy finally decides to accept me. I remember when it happened once and I didn't realize I'd been accepted by the "wrong" group. Halfway to the quest I realize it's the quest of the first group, which I no longer really felt like doing.

There really needs to be a way to cancel a request to join groups.

[Cyr]

If you are on the toon you want to run with...

Just hit the LFM.

[Thrudh]

There really needs to be a way to cancel a request to join groups.

I agree with this. After a minute of being ignored, I'm NOT going to run that quest with that leader even if I get accepted.

[Hokiewa]

Stop sending tells and just hit the freakin LFM.

The classes I'm looking for are clearly stated.

I'm generally dealing with multiple chat channels in game.. Guild.. Raid Channels..... Tells from friends.. all kinds of stuff...

When you hit my LFM, I can at least see your Guild.

Yes, I sometimes make decisions based on a players guild when I dont recognize the name.

People I dont know rarely get accepted or even a response from a random tell when I have an LFM up.

My Time is just as valuable as yours. WHy waste time by sending unasked for tells when the LFM says whats going on.. Just hit it.

This.

[Battlehawke]

Op. I agree with you 100 percent. If someone does not want you in their group they should either hit "decline" or send you /tell saying "not you". They shouldn't wait to see if something they like better comes along... It's just wrong.... And for all of you who say you can't keep up... you are right... And you probably shouldn't be leading a group... Their is after all a log of all who tried to join... Grow a set/pair and hit decline....

[eonfreon]

Op. I agree with you 100 percent. If someone does not want you in their group they should either hit "decline" or send you /tell saying "not you". They shouldn't wait to see if something they like better comes along... It's just wrong.... And for all of you who say you can't keep up... you are right... And you probably shouldn't be leading a group... Their is after all a log of all who tried to join... Grow a set/pair and hit decline....

The thing the party leader did wrong was telling the OP to hit the LFM and then making the OP wait 7 minutes thinking he was going to get in.

I generally will not send tells back. I don't know why people expect party leaders to reply to tells. And if I receive many requests to join my group I will go through the log and decide who I want, so yes it may take a minute or three. Anyone who tries to rush me will indeed get a decline.

If there are more people requesting to join then I need I am not going to bother declining everyone I don't need/want, I am going to simply accept the ones I want and the rest will get the "party full" message.

But in no way shape or form am I responsible for answering tells. Nor am I going to worry about declining everyone I don't want before I fill my group. However, I won't just leave people hanging for awhile either, if it's as slow going as the OP described. If I'm unsure if I want to wait or something I will send a tell telling them that I'm not sure and if they want me to decline them or wait and see.

If you don't like the way the leader is organizing his party then note their name down and move on. Nobody really cares if someone thinks they need to grow a bigger set.

[Fetchi]

First off my play schedule simply doesn't allow me to join a big guild (I'm in a guild with my son who doesn't play much anymore (*&^% XBox), I simply can't commit to a regular schedule. So obvioulsy I solo or PUG a lot. I made level 20 (two different toons) a couple months back. I know they're are a lot of folks who even when pugging want to stick with the same folks, that doesn't bother me.

Here's my whine for the day. If someone answers your LFM can't you just give an answer in a reasonable time? I sent a tell for a raid (at that time it was at 6/12 no arcanes), I usually send tells instead of just clicking join since I usually get asked a bunch of do you have this spell/gear kind of questions. I waited a few minutes and sent another tell (I know how fast stuff can scroll by) we're now up to 7/12, and I get a response back something like "I'm thinking". I let another 10 minutes go by (it's a slow night not much going on) -it's now 9/12. I send another tell, we do the question dance and the person tells me to hit the LFM. So I hit "Join" and wait....and wait..and I'm watching the LFM and after a couple minutes it goes to 10/12 and a few more minutes later it's 11/12 and then a few minutes later I get the system message telling me I was rejected because the group was full. Now it was a good 7 minutes from the time I was told to click join till the last two spots actually filled up. I sent the guy a short tell politely telling him it wasn't cool to keep me hanging for 20 minutes and I get a response back "Sorry dude I was AFKish and it just filled up", really? really?

I can understand if you don't want my class or just don't recognize me or whatever just say No, just say "No, I don't like Sorcerer's" or "No, I heard you were a jerk", or "No I don't like names that start with T" whatever your reason for not wanting me in your group just say so, don't keep me hanging for 20 minutes (now normally I won't wait more than 5 minutes but it was a really slow night).

Well at least he said something, there are so many folks who simply never respond to "Do you want..." tells or bother to click reject on a join request. I don't know how many times I've hit a join for one group, a couple minutes later no response so I hit a join for another, get in, and half way through (i.e. probably 30 minutes later) get the "you have been rejected because the group is full" message.

Telling someone "No" doesn't have to be a traumatic thing, don't be afraid to say no to someone! it's better than wasting there time.

+1 because I agree 100%

What I've found is when these group leaders eventually get around to accepting me, it's a pug I regret joining. Most of the times these leaders have no idea what they are doing.

I typically find that I could have already solo'd the quest in the time it took me to wait for an accept. Sometimes I just want company, and don't feel like starting a group myself, so I fall victim to the above example and it makes me laugh.

Also, becuase of these examples, when I start a group, I try to always accept anyone that hits my lfm, the game is not that hard. NO you don't need healer or a rogue unless you are doing elite or a particular raid. I don't like for people to wait for me. I don't throw up an lfm and go afk, that's just ********. If I can't use you in the group or the spot is filled and I didn't take down a class in time, I always send a polite /tell to the applicant.

A few seconds of courtesy to /tell and communicate goes a long way to a happy gaming experience for everyone.

[Zaodon]

I have sort of an opposite story.

I was on my Wizard, saw an lfm, all classes, my level range. I hit it.
"Decline." (<-- its rare that someone actually uses Decline.)
I hit it again.
"Decline."
I hit it a third time.
(long pause)
(Leader) tells you, "need a healer"
"Decline."
/reply "No, you are accepting all classes"
Hit LFM.
(Leader) tells you, "no, we need a healer"
"Decline."
/reply "No, I am looking right at your LFM, I can clearly see you are accepting all classes"
Hit LFM.
(Leader) tells you, "well, sorry, we need a healer"
"Decline."
/reply "You should change your LFM then."
Hit LFM.
(get declined due to full group message, as he must have found his healer)

[Hafeal]

Op -

You are asking for a maturity level which does not simply exist for some players for various reasons (e.g., age). If I am pugging, my routine is to:

1) Click the lfm; the only reason for a tell on my part is if the lfm states 'already in' - I may check to see how far that exactly is.
2) If I am ignored for more than a minute, I move on. I expect that if you form the lfm, you are at your keboard and can respond within 60 secs.
3) If you ignore me and then I see you fill with a comparable character to mine, you get squelched.
4) If your group takes another 10 mins to fill and I notice, you get squelched.

I find this routine has made my pugging experience much, much more enjoyable through the years. Especially since those who get squelched are now a known commodity for future grief avoidance.

When I form the lfm, I always respond to those who hit the lfm, even if it is only to give them a brief thnx for the interest and explanation as to why they did not make it (which is that 99% of the time, I received someone else into the group before them, as I typically just take the first 5 who join).

Remember, you control your game - don't give that control to someone else. Squelch is your friend. :D

[Thrudh]

The thing the party leader did wrong was telling the OP to hit the LFM and then making the OP wait 7 minutes thinking he was going to get in.

I generally will not send tells back. I don't know why people expect party leaders to reply to tells. And if I receive many requests to join my group I will go through the log and decide who I want, so yes it may take a minute or three. Anyone who tries to rush me will indeed get a decline.

If there are more people requesting to join then I need I am not going to bother declining everyone I don't need/want, I am going to simply accept the ones I want and the rest will get the "party full" message.

But in no way shape or form am I responsible for answering tells. Nor am I going to worry about declining everyone I don't want before I fill my group. However, I won't just leave people hanging for awhile either, if it's as slow going as the OP described. If I'm unsure if I want to wait or something I will send a tell telling them that I'm not sure and if they want me to decline them or wait and see.

If you don't like the way the leader is organizing his party then note their name down and move on. Nobody really cares if someone thinks they need to grow a bigger set.

Just to be clear, you're talking about end-game raids, right? Do you also generate a big list of people that takes 3 minutes to go through when trying to fill a 6-man quest?

[Thrudh]

Op -

You are asking for a maturity level which does not simply exist for some players for various reasons (e.g., age). If I am pugging, my routine is to:

1) Click the lfm; the only reason for a tell on my part is if the lfm states 'already in' - I may check to see how far that exactly is.
2) If I am ignored for more than a minute, I move on. I expect that if you form the lfm, you are at your keboard and can respond within 60 secs.
3) If you ignore me and then I see you fill with a comparable character to mine, you get squelched.
4) If your group takes another 10 mins to fill and I have not done anything else, you get squelched.

I find this routine has made my pugging experience much, much more enjoyable through the years. Especially since those who get squelched are now a known commodity for future grief avoidance.

When I form the lfm, I always respond to those who hit the lfm, even if it is only to give them a brief thnx for the interest and explanation as to why they did not make it (which is that 99% of the time, I received someone else into the group before them, as I typically just take the first 5 who join).

Remember, you control your game - don't give that control to someone else. Squelch is your friend. :D

How does squelching work anyway? Does that mean you can't see their LFMs anymore? And if they try to join your LFM you won't see their join message?

[Impaqt]

I have sort of an opposite story.

I was on my Wizard, saw an lfm, all classes, my level range. I hit it.
"Decline." (<-- its rare that someone actually uses Decline.)
I hit it again.
"Decline."
I hit it a third time.
(long pause)
(Leader) tells you, "need a healer"
"Decline."
/reply "No, you are accepting all classes"
Hit LFM.
(Leader) tells you, "no, we need a healer"
"Decline."
/reply "No, I am looking right at your LFM, I can clearly see you are accepting all classes"
Hit LFM.
(Leader) tells you, "well, sorry, we need a healer"
"Decline."
/reply "You should change your LFM then."
Hit LFM.
(get declined due to full group message, as he must have found his healer)

I would of squelched you after the second time you hit the LFM after the Decline.

Doesnt matter what the LFM says, a Decline is a Decline.

If hes only looking for a healer should he update the Groups? SUre.... But just because a Group says "All Classes" doesnt mean you have a right to be in that group.

[Fetchi]

Op -

You are asking for a maturity level which does not simply exist for some players for various reasons (e.g., age). If I am pugging, my routine is to:

1) Click the lfm; the only reason for a tell on my part is if the lfm states 'already in' - I may check to see how far that exactly is.
2) If I am ignored for more than a minute, I move on. I expect that if you form the lfm, you are at your keboard and can respond within 60 secs.
3) If you ignore me and then I see you fill with a comparable character to mine, you get squelched.
4) If your group takes another 10 mins to fill and I notice, you get squelched.

I find this routine has made my pugging experience much, much more enjoyable through the years. Especially since those who get squelched are now a known commodity for future grief avoidance.

When I form the lfm, I always respond to those who hit the lfm, even if it is only to give them a brief thnx for the interest and explanation as to why they did not make it (which is that 99% of the time, I received someone else into the group before them, as I typically just take the first 5 who join).

Remember, you control your game - don't give that control to someone else. Squelch is your friend. :D

Excellent advice.

+1

[Thrudh]

I would of squelched you after the second time you hit the LFM after the Decline.

Yeah me too.

[Zaodon]

I would of squelched you after the second time you hit the LFM after the Decline.

Yeah me too.

I bet both of you would have had the right classes selected, though, so it would have never happened in the first place.

[chak]

All this time in the game and my squelch list still has exactlyy 0 people on it.
I dont need a list. If you are that much of an @ss ill remember not to group with you again.
:eek:

[Kelavam]

The various thoughts on this subject are exactly what I was talking about.

Different people have different views on what is accepted and what is not when it comes to LFMs. That is, in my opinion, the biggest problem that people face - what one person is okay with, someone else is not.

It comes down to, in my opinion, being polite and using common sense as well as common courtesy. I do not see anything wrong with someone sending a tell prior to joining, but getting angry when you do not get a response is wrong, but not responding is also wrong (but there are instances where you do not even see the tell as things are flying through the chat window so fast.

Hit decline for someone who will not work with your group. Not really that hard. Sending a reason is also polite. Making someone wait is just not cool in my book.

-=-=-=-

The only thing I can suggest is if it takes more than 1-2 minutes to get a response you are hoping for, move on to another group or put up your own lfm. You cannot control how other people act or what they say. All you can control is how you react and respond to what you are given to work with.

[Impaqt]

I bet both of you would have had the right classes selected, though, so it would have never happened in the first place.

I bet I forget to change my class icons sometimes. and if someone what that rude to me about it, I would probably leave em wrong too.

[Thrudh]

I bet both of you would have had the right classes selected, though, so it would have never happened in the first place.

Well, I might have had them wrong... but as soon I had to decline you, I would have changed them (and sent you a tell, saying "sorry, need a healer now")

Technically, I probably would have never declined you in the first place... There are very few quests where I don't just take the first 5 and go...

[eonfreon]

Just to be clear, you're talking about end-game raids, right? Do you also generate a big list of people that takes 3 minutes to go through when trying to fill a 6-man quest?

Just to be clear, that's what the OP is talking about too. End-game raids. And I would pretty much ignore tells.

No I don't usually generate a big list of people that take 3 minutes to go through when trying to fill 6-man quests. I do often generate lists beyond the 5 I need though. I accept the ones I need. The rest get the automatic decline.

[Llewndyn]

Well I'd ignore you for that... I'm usually busy while the group is forming, and you didn't respond to the LFM so why would I respond?

I waited a few minutes and sent another tell (I know how fast stuff can scroll by) we're now up to 7/12

A second tell? /squelch

Next time click the LFM. If there is no response in 60 seconds, decide what else you'd like to do instead.

Is it wrong that the more responses I read from Lorien the grumpier he sounds to me? Right now you are at Wilford Brimley trying to stop a carjacker!

While it is annoying when someone sends a tell, it still doesn't take a ton of time out of my day if I am leader to send him a quick "No" or "Die"... maybe I'm forming groups wrong but what are you so busy doing that you can't take 2.5 seconds to right click his name, click tell and write two words? No offense but it sounds like effective time management is your issue as well as the leader's in OP's story, sir...

And I think it's funny that you don't have time to say "No" or "hold on" but have time to type /squelch playername, that speaks volumes in and of itself.

To the OP, let it go. Some leaders are "busy doing other things" and if they are that busy just trying to get a group together then you don't want to be in that group. Join another and go on about your day. You owe them nothing, they owe you nothing.

[NaturalHazard]

Instead of just waiting on one group I also apply for other groups i might want to join while the leader is thinking, if I get into another group while hes still making up his mind on whether to take me or not too bad, his loss.

[waterboytkd]

I have sort of an opposite story.

I was on my Wizard, saw an lfm, all classes, my level range. I hit it.
"Decline." (<-- its rare that someone actually uses Decline.)
I hit it again.

Sure. It could have been an accident that he declined you. I know I've accidentally hit decline before (usually because I was going to click accept on a person above, and then the new request comes in and I'm moused over the decline).


"Decline."
I hit it a third time.

Really? It probably wasn't an accident the second time. He most likely doesn't want you for some reason or another.


(long pause)
(Leader) tells you, "need a healer"
"Decline."

And there it is! The reason he declined you. Excellent. Now you can move on to where you're needed/wanted.


/reply "No, you are accepting all classes"
Hit LFM.

Are you for real? He just told you he needs a healer. Clearly, he hasn't updated his lfm. Bad on him, yes. But the correct response here is not to say, "Nuh uh. Your lfm says you need me. You're wrong."


(Leader) tells you, "no, we need a healer"
"Decline."
/reply "No, I am looking right at your LFM, I can clearly see you are accepting all classes"
Hit LFM.
(Leader) tells you, "well, sorry, we need a healer"
"Decline."
/reply "You should change your LFM then."

A legitimate response! A little late, though...


Hit LFM.

Are you effing kidding me!?!?!


(get declined due to full group message, as he must have found his healer)

Good.

[Rauven]

From some of the responses here (the "don't send a /tell" crowd) it's clear not many of you play on Cannith. It is very common to see LFM's with "ST" or "send tell" in the comment... and nothing else. There is no indication that these are guild runs. They don't tell you what they want you to say in the /tell and quite often if you hit the LFM they ignore you. I have come to the point that if one of those groups is up, and I am interested, I will hit the LFM and if they don't respond within 30-60 sec I move on. It's not worth my time to send these people a /tell, that will usually be ignored, when I can hit the LFM and still be ignored. If they want to add me to their /squelch list, fine by me.

To the OP, everyone else is right. Don't send a /tell. It's not worth your time. Hit the LFM and if they don't respond then move on.

I will add one piece of advice. While it's fine to /squelch these people, I also add them to my friends list and a comment about the behavior. It makes it a lot easier if I see an LFM and say "hey, that names sounds familiar," click over to Friends and there's my reminder. My usual comment "the ignore-fu is strong with this one."

[MsEricka]

I didn't bother to read the replies. But i can tell you that when I put up an LFM I don't want to be responding to tells from people. If the LFM shows your class, then just join it, don't talk about it because if someone else with your class hits the lfm first, I'm taking them and you're left behind.

Why do I do this?

1) I don't want to be in tell heck for 10 minutes just to fill an LFM that doesn't need to be full to complete a quest
2) I don't want to wait for 10 minutes to do a quest that takes 5 minutes to complete
3) Enough talky talky, go killamajig

[protokon]

lol, I have a few memories of going AFK for 3-5 minutes and coming back to someone who hit the lfm and then begging me to accept them, cursing me out for being childish, ect...

some people can be so defensive if they aren't accepted right away! it's hilarious. But yeah sometimes it does suck to be left hanging, you typically have to make up your mind after 2 minutes if you are waiting around or not, then find something else to do.

[Thrudh]

lol, I have a few memories of going AFK for 3-5 minutes and coming back to someone who hit the lfm and then begging me to accept them, cursing me out for being childish, ect...

some people can be so defensive if they aren't accepted right away! it's hilarious. But yeah sometimes it does suck to be left hanging, you typically have to make up your mind after 2 minutes if you are waiting around or not, then find something else to do.

Why in the world would you put up an LFM and go afk?

And even if an emergency happened right then, and you HAD to go afk... why would you come back to it, and think it's funny that people were wondering where you were?

[PNellesen]

One exception to the "just hit the LFM" rule I haven't seen mentioned - For quests (and especially raids) I haven't done before, I'll usually send a /tell asking if they're taking first-timers, if they haven't made it explicit in the LFM itself. I'm to the point now where I've run most everything at least once on one of my characters, but there's still a few things out there I haven't done. Most leaders are usually happy I asked first.

[Thuldorn]

One exception to the "just hit the LFM" rule I haven't seen mentioned - For quests (and especially raids) I haven't done before, I'll usually send a /tell asking if they're taking first-timers, if they haven't made it explicit in the LFM itself. I'm to the point now where I've run most everything at least once on one of my characters, but there's still a few things out there I haven't done. Most leaders are usually happy I asked first.

In my case it would have been my second run in ToD (first one failed) and under those circumstances I like to be up front about my experience with that quest. For the quests I've run many times I just hit the LFM.

As for all the folks who said don't wait that long and get another group, I usually do. However the particular night was quite slow, there were no other LFMs that I was interested in or not on timer for so that really wasn't an option.

[moritheil]

No.

Just ditch. As Chai put it:


I would have joined another group by then.

Dude was basically using you as an insurance policy if he couldnt fill the raid.

Also, this?



And even if an emergency happened right then, and you HAD to go afk... why would you come back to it, and think it's funny that people were wondering where you were?

The answer is pretty simple: because they got worked up and forgot that this is first and foremost a game, and thus subservient to real life emergencies and such.

I don't advocate rudeness, but someone having to AFK isn't something to get worked up over.

[bokaboka]

Well I'd ignore you for that... I'm usually busy while the group is forming, and you didn't respond to the LFM so why would I respond?

[QUOTE I waited a few minutes and sent another tell (I know how fast stuff can scroll by) we're now up to 7/12

A second tell? /squelch

Next time click the LFM. If there is no response in 60 seconds, decide what else you'd like to do instead.[/QUOTE]

So you have time to squelch people, but not time to say "no thanks".
They are roughly the same number of characters...

[Fenrisulven6]

While it is annoying when someone sends a tell, it still doesn't take a ton of time out of my day if I am leader to send him a quick "No" or "Die"...

It is for me. I use a dual Saitek to play, and rely on voicechat for comms. My keyboard is set off to the side out of the way. I have no need to type into party chat, so I'm not going to waste effort switching controls and looking for the / key in the dark.

YMMV. I'm just saying that people shouldn't assume that a lack of response to innane tells is based on rudeness. I treat them the same way I do telemarketers.