A far out idea? Or developer possibility?

[Hobbit]

Forgive me for talking about another game for a brief amount of time... however, it's a great way to get my idea across.
Anyone know of the game "City of Heroes"?
And how they branched out into "City of Villians" to add pvp?

I think DDO would be an EXCELLENT canidate for such a pvp method.
Droaam VS stormreach.
And use it as a catapult to introduce roaming wilderness... not just instanced wilderness, where all the trees group together and magically form an unbreakable wall.

I mean, why would the Devils of shavrath only attack stormreach? Why would the qul dour(sp?) only try to infest Stormreach?
Sure, Stormreach is great, BUT, hell, I'd join Droaam if they would let me have their Oath.

That would also give the devs freedom to play with something players have been waiting for for a very long time.
Should I say it?
Dare I say it?
Monstorous races. There. It's on the table.
Play as an ogre, and only be able to have 16 character classes, since ogre class base is worth 4 regular class levels.
Give the monstorous races to Droaam side only, but cut back on the power of the equipment they can get (since EVIL chars aren't so giving).
WHOOPS. I said EVIL. Another HUGE thing people have been waiting for.

So, how about it, dev team? The gauntlet has been metaphorically tossed.

[Angelus_dead]

I think DDO would be an EXCELLENT canidate for such a pvp method.
Droaam VS stormreach.
How much have you tested DDO's existing PVP support?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Can I play a kobold shaman?

[heyytoi]

PvP is fine as it is

(even if theres room for improvement..but you know, people tend to get mad when we talk about that)

[melkor1702]

Is that you H4X? :p

[MsEricka]

Any development that involves PvP takes away from the real game

/not signed ever

[Drona]

There is already a game for PvP and the whole world(ages 7-16) are playing it. So why dont you go there and give us some real issues to talk about?

/(NOT SIGNED) ^(Infinity)

[Envoi]

I played COH/COV extensively and ran a guild in COV for the first part of it's existance.

PVP there was an abomination.

For starters the devs completely abandoned it once it became clear that they couldn't attract a large PVP audience.
For 2nds it was HORRIBLY balanced. It was basically premised on team vs team game play...with the heroes having the upper hand at all times due to their specialist nature, and the villains on the losing side at all times due to their generalist/jack of all trades nature.

They had completely different classes on the hero/villain sides and none of them were balanced with each other or between sides. Any sort of organized PVP was a steamroll for the heroes, blasters getting all the kills, empaths keeping everyone alive, tanks being useless, ect.

After a couple of minor balance tweaks the devs apparently completely abandoned the PVP side of the game, not even finishing the almost-completed base raiding mechanism.

Same thing happened here too by all indications, however, it seems they planned for it and did not hype it up quite as much.

[Missing_Minds]

Your idea is more akin to lotro style of PvP where it is PvMP. Players vs monster players.

[Hobbit]

PvP, correctly done, adds to a game.
But ye, it would be hard to pull off.

PvP in this game is not fine as it is. It's as lacking as the crafting system is.
(pause for trolls to spam *grensteel this greensteel that* here)

Greensteel is a nice... distraction... from real harvesting and real crafting.

Permenancy has yet to even be implemented, IF it is ever going to be implemented.

Wizards have yet to even be able to make scrolls, which is supposed to be the other half of the scribe scroll feat.

Er, but I am ranting.

Just think how cool it would be if you could "double" raid, like, tempest spine... where one side is the normal party, starting from the normal spot, running the normal route, and the other side starts at the top, talks to a few npcs real fast to change mob placement, and defends Sor'jek.

I think that would be awesomely sick to a epic level.

[Khanyth]

/notsigned

Any effort, time, $$$ that Turbine and its staff puts towards PvP is a waste UNLESS it is put towards the removal of PvP from the game

[h4x0r1f1c]

Is that you H4X? :p

Nah lol

[go21134]

To OP:

I like that creativity, a warring state between Stormreach and an outside force. However, from what I have experienced and played, the game is more centered on the PvE aspect with PvP thrown in for those who want to try to make it work for them. So Player against Player in such a setting ... I would see it most unlikely to happen due to the lack of umph for those crucial classes (Tanks, Healers, Rogues, Team-driven builds). However, as a Player vs Monsters ... That might work, maybe as an wave/roaming instance, but again will be more towards PvE than PvP, which in a sense, is what the wilderness areas are for most of the packs. I actually would like the idea of a kingdom ... hired groups against a larger goal (like that Droaam reference), accomplishing major tasks together in a larger stage. Maybe some sort of duo or trio raids that are drawn together, or an event like Mabar/Devil's Invasion.

Regarding playing the monsters as a classes, I recall when I first played PnP, there was an incerpt about how the DM should be wary about letting their players play other races aside from the standard ones. I mean ... a level 3 beholder sorcerer (Do you even need to be a sorcerer?) next to a level 5 dwarven barbarian seems to make dwarf feel a tad useless after the first kobold. I won't say I have never wanted to be a half-orc cheiftan, but its place is in a realm outside of DDO, where imagination shouldn't be confined by scripts and codes. LOTRO has this thought in action already, and to add it to DDO, they would most likely need to invest in another game-mechanic/system to run it ... like another server dedicated to it.

To add my thoughts, I would like to see more raid-group wildernesses or even raids, ones where the group actually has to complete the objective in groups (maybe as tasks but hopefully not mandatory for those who like smaller groups) as the distances may be farther, or that certian goals would be completed quicker in such a way (such as -spoiler- Fire/Ice in Tempist Spine) . Something like,
Objective:
-Breach the Ironwoven Fortress
1 Find the Commander of Stormreach's army
x Recruit/Convince the soldiers of Stormreach to rally against the enemy
2 Find the hidden prison
x Rescue the Dwarven Engineers
x Construct a device to overcome the (insert name)'s defences
3 Infiltrate the Ironwoven Fortress and steal the building designs
x Do not raise suspicion of your arrival.
- Attack Ironwoven Fortress
- Slay at least (# amount) of (insert name)'s soldiers
- At least 1 party member must survive
- Slay (insert name)
('-' are objectives that need to be done, while 'x' would be those that would help, maybe as optionals, but definitely enhancers to the plot)
While the top three are completely optional, each would add to the overall goal. It would require skills in all areas, from Class Skills (diplomacy, intimidation, bluff for the convincing) as well as some time management skills (given we will be getting crafting/construction/career-skills) if not management of choices, between taking the long way round, or making the quick-decisive move to attack.

I guess, PvP would be nice if they added some more to it, but I wouldn't mind too much if they didn't. What I would really like would be some elements from PvP (choices, usages of time management and abilities) as well as PvE (Skill usages, management of resources and team-play) to make something grander, something that will enhance both the gameplay and the story.

My little rant worth a little less than 2cp.

[Zectarash]

Read everything before responding.



My little rant worth is a little less than 2cp.

I beg to differ. It actually had some good points. I rarely have to use more resuurces than buffs and heal potions when I solo.

To the OP. Here are the pros and cons to your idea:

Pros: More diversity, a nice twist to some things.

Cons: PVP would interfere with questing, impede character progress, you get the idea. Also, as other people mentioned, most races would be impossible to use (a Kobold hero? Really? Not to mention an ILLITHID saving the day) or unbalanced to have (such as a Devil).

End result: Same character races, but add Evil alignments for characters. The reason this would work is because Evil creatures are naturally greedy and treacherous, and even betray their own friends, so a Lawful Evil guy could kill Devils.

I the PvP aisle, allow guild vs. guild battles. Yes, guild WARS. If both guild have Airships, maybe they could fight in the air with the Amenities playing some minor role (fighting as a level 3, healing, etc.).

Misc: LET ROGUES PICK POCKETS!!!! This is just annoying. Rogues should be able to pick pockets. In AD&D (Yes, I know, this game is a far cry different, but still) Thieves (not theives!) could snatch items from outer pockets, climb walls, and Read books in other languages. Which brings me to another point. Whenever you come across a creature that says something in another language, even if you're an Elf fighting a guy who says something in Elven, it comes out as literally random strings of letters with some vowels mixed in or the DM specifically says it's (insert language) and you can't understand it. They should have books only certain races/classes can read. Also, how does a BARBARIAN read!?! Last I checked, Paladins don't even get any education, I think they sould have some obstacle to teach such characters "reading". And add th ability for certain races to speak/read certain languages; and add certain Alignment languages, just like AD&D.

Side note: I've been hearing that Wizards are getting unbalanced (stronger than) Sorcerors at endgame, due to Crowd Control DCs. Can't think of a way to fix this right now, it's late and I'm tired. Gotta punish my hands and head for that as I ty;gslj;jklnbn

/Rant off

It probably wasn't even worth 1 copper. Gotta punish myself for THAT.

jkdsjbn n nbh

/rant REALLY off

[Fishcatch22]

This thread sounds like someones trying to be a H4x clone. Where has he been these days? People are starting to steal his thunder.

[Chai]

A concept like this would have had to have been implemented from the get go. Games that are designed for PVP from the ground up succeed at PVP. Those that try to implement it later on fail at it.

D&D and by proxy DDO are unbalanced for PVP. If I want to satisfy my PVP urges, I play a game that was designed from the concept stage with PVP in mind.

[Hobbit]

No Clue who h4x is. Please explain/ post a thread.

To go, YES.

As far as a level 3 sorc beholder... that's where effective character level comes in.

For example, a beholder would prolly have an effective character level, at level 1.

What that means is, a level 1 beholder character would count the same as a level 12 character.

And, it means that a level 8 bheolder character would effectively be level 20.

Meaning, a beholder player character would never be higher than level 8, unless true epic levels are implemented.

Plus, beholders have less equip slots. Getting that death ward and hvy fort would mean sacrificing one or two of a precious... prolly 4 slots a beholder would get.

A huge thing I think this game is missing is a "Open World Environment"

Now, I will agree... Open World PvP might actually take away from a game.

But if the game was open world, and opposing factions met in the middle of somewhere, should they jsut not be able to attack each other?

I am terribly torn on that thought.

I mean, I have seen how broken and one sided open world pvp can be. People don't always rally, and when a huge raid is assualting your town, you pretty much have to either pug to defend it, or have an enire guild dedicated to nothing but defense.

One way they could work it, is that, in order to assualt a town... you have to make massive plans with your side's main government body.

I mean, as it stands, Droaam had to dig under the city walls to even get in, and had to stoop to having a flase diplomatic envoy.

I can only assume that means that there are wards around the city (say, the alarm spell) that go off when breached, sneaking or not.

Then a glitterdust goes off where breached, making you visible.

And, since an alarm went off, troops come charging in from everywhere.

Making it practically impossible to breach the city without an army.

So, you have to plan with your side's main forces, and that could take a few days (sets an ivasion raid timer that everyone can see, and gives peopel time to plan to join)

That also gives the other side time to figure out thorugh sneaking/ spying if one side is planning to invade or not.

If two invasions happen at the same time, both cities are undefended, or minimally defended, and loot tables are way down.

If one side attacks while ther other's invasion counter is going, the one that had the invasion counter going gets their counter reset.

And then you could throw in a "denfense" counter, that is only 12 hours in duration, and has a 3 day cooldown, to activate based on your inteligence of their invasion.

Add modifiers based on recon missions and stealth/spy missions.

Missions where smash and bash will ruin it, because it will alert the enemy that oyu know, and give them bonuses/minuses/ more choices involving when to plan their invasion.

Open world PvP might be a bust.
But open world itself, and opposing sides, where they create an instanced invasion only for people that want to get involved my not be such a bad idea.

[Musouka]

Any development that involves PvP takes away from the real game

/not signed ever

agreed.

[Hobbit]

Bump.
Seems like the devs might be treading new water and maybe taking new ideas ^.^

How can anyone say pvp is working as intended when i can try to use a epic destiny burst and have it absorbed by a pale lavender, but a level 3 scorching ray can rip someone a new hole where the epic destiny can't touch him.

I know plenty of people that wish they could off "that" guy in the party.
You know who i'm talking about.

So, hopefully you have stuff more creative than hating a specific game, or hating the concept of expanding a game beyond it's straining limits.

Because, as it stands, the game is feeling small.

Farm this chest till ransack, run this raid, change alts, do it again.

I'd very much look forward to... "run this quest, party with this horrible person, write down name, switch to monster alt, find name, smash."

[donfilibuster]

That was a year and a half bump, huh, and in the name of pvp.

The monster races idea has merit though, very d&d even if not classic.
I imagine we will see kobold as a race in the future, so not much hopes for other monsters.

However the tech is getting there, with druids having wild shape there's hope for polymorph and lycans.
This has nothing to do with pvp tho, doubt monster races will help with it and if not done well it'd be a waste of a good feature.

[loki_3369]

How dare you talk about pvp. We don't want them spending time on pvp when they could be spending their time sodomizing the rest of DDO further.

[Mikula]

Pretty much every other MMO has that stupid two factions system, I am not a fan at all. Right now pvp is broken perfectly. It does everything it should: help you blow off steam, waste time messing around and grief others by making them dance for several minutes.

I've always felt like the Challenges were added to appease the pvp folk. The PvP people I know are the sort that love leader boards and want to know where they rank. Well challenges have that. The only other way I could see most people getting behind something pvp would be a challenge where two teams work on opposing objectives or race to be the first to complete objectives.

I could imagine kobold mining missions where two teams race to mine the most crystals. Maybe create a weapon, call it jar of honey or something, and have player be able to throw them at the enemy team's kobold miners. Then have that slow or causes those kobolds to attract more monsters. Something like that I could see as fun and balance within the rest of the game.

I don't want playable ogres, hobgoblins, giants or beholders and we certainly don't want more trolls.

[Hobbit]

True, we could take out the pvp part of it.
It's just too easy to get ganked in ddo.

Or keep the pvp to specific contested areas.

There are games I've played with multiple factions, and I think DDO could pull that off.

I mean, there are more monsterous nations than droam.

With forgotten realms, we could even have tieflings from the city of sigil.

I still think the idea has massive potential, and would add a breth offresh air to the game, especially when it seems like all anyone does anymore is find the fastest way to farm loot and xp.

Not saying that would change... just saying it could open up quests on one side that the other side can not get to, so when farming one side gets old, you switch to your other char.

[TazMan098]

I must agree and disagree here. PvP in a world-wide scale where people can kill you anytime takes away from the game and in a case like that a good deal of people will move to another game where they won't be ganked by some mega-gear 1.5k hp barb. If you had PvP in a certain area (like LOTRO has) that would be kinda fun, and perhaps make items that give exclusive benefits sutch as give extra AC, more PRR, ect, I think that would be an interesting aspect to the game. :)

[Uska]

No and no!

Devs have stated they won't add evil and there is no need to go into why it's been beat to death. As to pvp ddo just isn't a good game for it and we have plenty of pvp now that people don't utilize.

[Flavilandile]

http://cdn.head-fi.org/7/73/7329b4cf_threadNecromancy.jpg

/not signed ever.

Some threads should be left alone. This is one of those.

[atlantiandreams]

EVIL, EVIL, EVIL.

Yes to the choice of evil all the way. why can i only choose good or neutral alignments. NE is the way to go. not that alignment really matters in this game but i want to know i can be NE anyway.

As far as the other parts go. I am not a big fan of pvp but more power to those that are.

Eberron is a big place and as such maybe the next expansion should allows us to move to other areas like Droam, or Sharn.

Lots of choices in the big scary world.

[Missing_Minds]

I'd very much look forward to... "run this quest, party with this horrible person, write down name, switch to monster alt, find name, smash."
So you necro a thread with the desire to grief people. *sigh*

[Hobbit]

Interesting. Seems the newer people are interested in having evil alignments available.

I honestly don't think this thread should ever die.

DnD has so much more to offer than what's on the table with DDO atm.

And devs have changed their minds before.

I think they could make a whole expansion out of it, like they did with menace of the underdark... and that would be a truly epic expansion.

That way, whoever didn't want to know about monsterous races/ evil player characters could stay in the noob corner (aka ebberron) and everyone else could move on to the other, more interesting realms.

pvp on a global scale, however... though I liked the idea intially.... it's just too true. Borked. No way it could work and be fun.

[VladimereTheImpaler]

I disagree with people saying upgrading the pvp experience is a waste of time. I think at this point in DDO we have enough content to keep us occupied for a long time. Sure you get the die hard players that have 8 level 25s and nothing else to do, but that is a few amount of people. Pvp was never intended to be in DnD but then again so were alot of things that are now in DDO. PvP quests and raids would add a lot of flavor to this game, and a different twist. I think the main reason people generally hate pvp in the mmo circles is because of the grief that comes with it. Competitive players tend to be a lot less friendly and cooperative. This adds to the stigma that pvpers are ******** and destroy games. I welcome the idea of expanding pvp and making it a worthwhile experience.

/signed

[donfilibuster]

Probably saying it is a waste of time is pushing it, what is more commonly said it's that there's a lot to do or fix in ddo where dev time is better spent.

It'd be pushing it as well to say the newer people is interested, some people are, both new and old.
Then again there's people interested in permadeath, etc.
(even friendly fire when it comes to pve, despite the issues)

As far as PvP in PnP goes there were room for tournaments, including arenas.
There's interesting stuff in books that don't involve pkilling, like summoning duels, as silly that might sound.

As far as PvP in DDO goes, there's stuff to do that may not involve much coding.
Like having instances on the brawl area, specially now that you have the public quest option.

[xxHazexx]

Forgive me for talking about another game for a brief amount of time... however, it's a great way to get my idea across.
Anyone know of the game "City of Heroes"?
And how they branched out into "City of Villians" to add pvp?

I think DDO would be an EXCELLENT canidate for such a pvp method.
Droaam VS stormreach.
And use it as a catapult to introduce roaming wilderness... not just instanced wilderness, where all the trees group together and magically form an unbreakable wall.

I mean, why would the Devils of shavrath only attack stormreach? Why would the qul dour(sp?) only try to infest Stormreach?
Sure, Stormreach is great, BUT, hell, I'd join Droaam if they would let me have their Oath.

That would also give the devs freedom to play with something players have been waiting for for a very long time.
Should I say it?
Dare I say it?
Monstorous races. There. It's on the table.
Play as an ogre, and only be able to have 16 character classes, since ogre class base is worth 4 regular class levels.
Give the monstorous races to Droaam side only, but cut back on the power of the equipment they can get (since EVIL chars aren't so giving).
WHOOPS. I said EVIL. Another HUGE thing people have been waiting for.

So, how about it, dev team? The gauntlet has been metaphorically tossed.

and here, awesome idea.

[96th_Malice]

Is that you H4X? :p

nice !

[Dawnsfire]

No and no!

Devs have stated they won't add evil and there is no need to go into why it's been beat to death. As to pvp ddo just isn't a good game for it and we have plenty of pvp now that people don't utilize.

Like this one:


"The first six alignments, lawful good through chaotic neutral, are the standard alignments for player characters. The three evil alignments are for monsters and villains." - PHB, p104.

While not every character strives to be a hero, the majority of the quests and storylines in DDO make the assumption that the parties involved are not actively villainous in nature. (There are some exceptions, such as Purging the Heretics, but even Running With the Devils involves an unfortunate situation forced upon the party through duplicity.)

[donfilibuster]

OP brought it up on topic since he spoke of Drooam, but otherwise playable monster races need not be evil.
For the record, the guideline for the DM to avoid evil characters is kept in the previews of 5e.

[Uska]

OP brought it up on topic since he spoke of Drooam, but otherwise playable monster races need not be evil.
For the record, the guideline for the DM to avoid evil characters is kept in the previews of 5e.

So there is one good thing in 5E(gave up play testing it and sticking to 5e hackmaster)

[goodoldxelos]

funny, i just posted a thread on this

[Gleep_Wurp]

How much have you tested DDO's existing PVP support?

glad to see youre still around. yeah we all know about support or the lack of. :cool:

[goodoldxelos]

Any development that involves PvP takes away from the real game

/not signed ever


/notsigned

Any effort, time, $$$ that Turbine and its staff puts towards PvP is a waste UNLESS it is put towards the removal of PvP from the game




PVP can be done right, just needs to be a creative solution for it.

[Vint]

Is that you H4X? :p

+1, lmfao

[Uska]

PVP can be done right, just needs to be a creative solution for it.

No she is right pvp development takes away from time for stuff for the majority of players dnd and ddo arent good games for pvp

[DoctorWhofan]

Your idea is more akin to lotro style of PvP where it is PvMP. Players vs monster players.

THIS would be acceptable. LotRO players even go as far as having a system to do "1 on 1" matches within the Ettenmoors, becuae the system doesn't allow you to do that.


So, IF they used LotRO Ettenmoors system AND if the players were as polite as the ones on LotRO, I'd would accept it.

But, this will take too much of the developers' time (though not as much as PvP...no rebalancing of classes needed) andit is late in the game for such changes, I'd say no.