Basic Guide to DDO for NWN players

[Nightalas]

I started playing DDO only because it is very similar to NWN. I also know some other NWN players who were showing interest in DDO for the same reason. I have compiled the following short list to give NWN veterans some basic guidelines about certain general differences between NWN 1 and DDO.


Classes/Races:

1. Prestige classes are inside main classes. There is at least Arcane Archer and Kensei (Weapon Master).
2. There are no evil alignments but Pale Master exists in the wizard class and Assassin in the Rogue class.
3. Purple Dragon Knight and Dwarven Defender might appear later (?). There are no RDD, blackguard, CoT, harper scout, shadowdancer.
3. Main classes are the same but DDO doesn't have druids (yet).
4. Bard and Ranger have 6 points to spend on skills each level.
5. Monks are quite different. They have Ki power and special combo moves.
6. You cannot save skill points for later level ups. You must use the skill points at once.
7. Races are more-or-less the same. There are no gnomes but there are warforged.
8. Halflings can wield weapons of large size and wield small/medium sized weapons as 1H-weapons.
9. There are no epic levels, feats and spells. Level cap is 20.
10. DDO has a system of enhancements. There is nothing like that in NWN by default but on some persistent worlds there have been distantly similar systems involving custom feats or abilities with astral points.
11. It is possible to reincarnate the character and start playing with it again from level 1.


Bonuses:
1. DDO is based on rules from D&D edition 3.5.
2. Attack bonuses of the same type do not stack with each other. For example, bless and aid spells do not stack because they give bonuses of the same type.
3. Improved Critical and Keen do not stack.
4. There is no Discipline skill or Knockdown and Disarm feats. There is a Balance skill and Trip feat.
5. Properties from items do not stack. If you wear gloves of +4 strength and boots of +4 strength, you will get only +4 strength.
6. There are no horses or Ride skill or mounted combat feats.
7. There are no Divine Might or Divine Shield feats. Clerics and Paladins have something similar to Divine Might as an enhancement. Its bonuses increase at higher levels.
8. Clerics don't have domains and thus they all have the same spell repertoire.

Spells:
1. There are spell points but wizards and divine spellcasters need to prepare their spells beforehand in a tavern.
2. Bards and Sorcerers learn and use their spells in a very similar way as in NWN.
3. There are no familiars, shapeshifting spells or shapeshifting abilities. However, Summon Monster spells do exist.
4. Many spellcasters love to use Firewall, Blade Barrier and Fire Shield spells. These spells are used very similarly to their equivalents in NWN.
5. There is no Time Stop or Great Sanctuary.
6. Cleric buffs are very similar (Shield of Faith, Aid, Bless, Bull Strength etc., Spell Resistance, Freedom of Movement, Protection from Elements).

Items:
1. Many special items become bound to the character or player account and cannot be traded to other people.
2. DDO has more item properties but it doesn't really have any custom special scripted item properties (a talking sword, genie in a bottle, campfire/sleeping roll or a tent etc.).
3. It is not possible to modify and change apperance of separate armor or weapon parts or dye them to different colors.
4. There are various item crafting systems in DDO and they are quite diverse.

PvP/Death/Penalties:
1. You cannot be pkilled or robbed of your posessions. There is no Pickpocket skill. PvP is only in taverns.
2. There is no exp loss or item drop or loss after death.

RP:
1. No deep role-playing or RP actions which influence the world compared to RP servers in NWN (interaction with DMs). There are some guilds who have RP between their members.
2. There is a scripted "dungeon master" who tells you things during adventures.

Maps:
1. In NWN SoU brought us desert maps and winter maps. In DDO you can get that type of "update" by spending turbine points on adventure packs called Demon Sands and Reaver's Refuge. If you want something that looks visually at least distantly similar to Underdark in HotU, perhaps a good idea is to get adventure pack called Gianthold.
2. You cannot own houses, place objects and furniture in them etc.
3. You can summon NPC henchmen and give them orders but you cannot equip or unequip their items and gear.

Game mechanics:
1. DDO has a third dimension. It is possible to jump, fall and swim. The game is closer to first-person shooter games because of this.
2. You can move and attack at the same time without stopping for a second. As a result, spring attack feat makes much more sense in DDO.

[EKKM]

Haven't played NWN in a while so can't comment on most of the post.

I did want to point out that there are RP guilds that do quests and events in character. If you are interested try posting on your server's forum.

[SardaofChaos]

Game mechanics:
1. DDO has a third dimension. It is possible to jump, fall and swim. The game is closer to first-person shooter games because of this.

This isn't something all MMO's have? What kind of role playing game doesn't let you jump?

[Nightalas]

Haven't played NWN in a while so can't comment on most of the post.

I did want to point out that there are RP guilds that do quests and events in character. If you are interested try posting on your server's forum.

It's nice to know that there is some player organised RP in DDO. I haven't encountered any so far. However, I wouldn't probably even want to engage in any RP in DDO myself because the experience could never be deep enough. It wouldn't really impact anything and would mainly manifest only in the form of chat with some other players without any influence on anything.

There are simply no dungeon masters in DDO who promote and make role-play a meaningful process which has impact and consequences resounding in the game world. In NWN role-play can be meaningful, versatile, interesting and not simply chat but also actions and consequences through interaction with actions of dungeon masters who also represent schemes and machinations of creatures and factions in the game world. What I mean is that in DDO through my RP chat or RP actions no place, building or object will be built, altered or destroyed, no NPC or faction influenced in a complex way, no diplomatic or political relations will change, no special quests or circumstances will arise etc. It's just not worth to bother with RP in DDO without these factors and I am not a fan of chat RP for its own sake. :)


This isn't something all MMO's have? What kind of role playing game doesn't let you jump?

The comparison was strictly between Neverwinter Nights 1 and Dungeons & Dragon Online.

[Nebless]

This isn't something all MMO's have? What kind of role playing game doesn't let you jump?

Even though he was just talking about NWN and DDO, to answer your question Pirates of the Burning Sea doesn't have a jump function.

[Postumus]

It's nice to know that there is some player organised RP in DDO. I haven't encountered any so far.

There are many RP guilds. There are many static groups. Our guild, Drawn By Fate, (http://www.drawnbyfate.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=381142&TabID=3207793) has both, with the majority of the RP taking place within the static groups.

Usually RP players don't interact with non-RP players 'in character,' which is why you probably haven't noticed them. But hang around some of the taverns long enough between quests, and you'll see little groups of players just sitting there, or standing around emoting to each other. Those are probably RP players.




However, I wouldn't probably even want to engage in any RP in DDO myself because the experience could never be deep enough.What I mean is that in DDO through my RP chat or RP actions no place, building or object will be built, altered or destroyed, no NPC or faction influenced in a complex way, no diplomatic or political relations will change, no special quests or circumstances will arise etc. It's just not worth to bother with RP in DDO without these factors and I am not a fan of chat RP for its own sake. :)

The comparison was strictly between Neverwinter Nights 1 and Dungeons & Dragon Online.


So there is RP, just not the kind of RP you fancy? In a 'guide' to NWN players is it really fair to say DDO has 'no RP' simply because you don't like the style? Wouldn't that be like a guide to NWN telling PnP players that NWN has 'no RP' because of its limitations vs PnP?


Also, you've never tried role playing within DDO, you stated you didn't even know it existed, so how do you know you wouldn't like it?


I wholeheartedly suggest you try it before you dismiss it entirely. If you enjoy interacting with other people, then you might like it. While the parameters of DDO are more constricting than NWN, but there is still room for meaningful role play.


Yes it is difficult to physically interact with NPCs and objects in DDO in a complex way, but there is still character development between the PCs as they grow together (or apart) from their shared experiences - which in my experience was one of the best parts of RPing. They still share anxiety of peril and satisfaction of victory after adventure against the environment.


Players still 'play a role,' which is the essence of role play. How your character interacts or doesn't interact with certain things, objects, NPCs, PCs, etc depends on your dedication to RP. Would you pass up a hellfire repeater from chronoscope b/c your character is pyrophobic? Would you refuse to kill wild animals b/c the ranger in the party objects? Would you refuse to finish certain quests, or skip them entirely b/c it is in keeping with your character?

Read some of these. They will give you an idea of the type of role play that one can experience via DDO:

Asgorath the Worldshaper (http://www.drawnbyfate.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=381142&TabID=3207794&ForumID=1823665&TopicID=9434968&Page=1#45783253)


As Kickingwing Sees It (http://www.drawnbyfate.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=381142&TabID=3207794&ForumID=1823665&TopicID=9456764&Page=1#45860111)

The Chronicles of Fallane the Faithful (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3418183&postcount=93)

[Nightalas]

I have edited the RP section of the guide to mention RP guilds. However, RP in DDO and other MMORPG games is still completely different from the experience in NWN. Before NWN I used to play some MMORPG games and I know what type of RP DDO and other MMORPG games involve.

In NWN I have seen typical powergamers, for whom role-playing is a very alien concept, forced to adapt and resort to role-playing in order to survive or get out of some situations. What is even more funny, some powergamers evolve into RP powergamers in NWN. They grind for exp, items and power and at some point they adapt to RP pressure of the environment, notice that they can get unique rewards through RP and they begin to put more effort into RP. As a result, there are people who role-play purely for fun and there are people who role-play for the purpose of getting experience, gold, items or some unique benefits.

I know that RP in NWN is nothing like in PnP but at least it gets as close to it as possible for a computer game and MMORPG style game. For example, our diligent role-playing of lawful evil vampire characters (small clan) serving an NPC vampire king of one kingdom bore its ultimate result after 2-3 real life years in the form of our own very special hidden tomb, modelled after Bodhi's tomb in Baldurs Gate 2, filled with traps, hidden doors and interesting rooms, chambers and even some special NPC. My sinister path of lawful evil vampire cleric (later reincarnated to fighter/blackguard) had involved dozens of different role-playing quests all around the game world, battle campaigns first against less significant forces of evil, then against forces of good and later against greater forces of evil, diplomatic relations with a drow kingdom and a black legion, a kidnapping attempt of a king of another big kingdom, some interesting, weird and even comical interaction with people who were playing paladins and vampire hunters, conversion of new members, dark worship of Bane (Indiana Jones Temple of Doom style), internal intrigues within the vampire king's court and bloodline family, administration duties in his kingdom and town (town guard patrols, imprisoning and handling tortures, taking NPC troops on some quests such as collecting taxes in human or kobold villages) and many other adventures. I shared these experienced with other members of our clan but other players in the game world had their own and completely different paths, adventures and overall experience. In some cases we could design concepts for some of our adventures ourselves and then involve dungeon masters to make them happen as we had envisioned them. Fortunately, there was enough freedom and flexibility for role-play because the game world was very much like a small commercial MMORPG. Developers were strict about game balance, character progression and cheating issues and were spending a lot of time working on these aspects of the game.

[flynnjsw]

I started playing DDO only because it is very similar to NWN. I also know some other NWN players who were showing interest in DDO for the same reason. I have compiled the following short list to give NWN veterans some basic guidelines about certain general differences between NWN 1 and DDO.

Snip...

Bonuses:
1. Attack bonuses of the same type do not stack with each other. For example, bless and aid spells do not stack because they give bonuses of the same type.
2. Improved Critical and Keen do not stack.
4. Properties from items do not stack. If you wear gloves of +4 strength and boots of +4 strength, you will get only +4 strength.

Snip...


I wanted to comment on just these 3 items. These do not stack anywhere. They do not stack in PnP, they do not stack in NWN (unless a custom rule in a PW), and they do not stack here.

[Nightalas]

I wanted to comment on just these 3 items. These do not stack anywhere. They do not stack in PnP, they do not stack in NWN (unless a custom rule in a PW), and they do not stack here.

I don't remember how it is in NWN 2 but in NWN 1 they do stack.

In NWN 1 attack and skill bonuses are not categorised in groups as in DDO. There is no luck, competence or morale bonus. Thus, they all stack, which is also the reason why cleric is such a powerful melee build there.

Improved Critical and Keen item property (permanent or produced by the Keen Edge spell) stack too. For example, longsword has 19-20 critical range which becomes 17-20 with either improved critical or keen which becomes 15-20 with both of these. Scimitar is a very popular weapon in NWN because it can have 12-20/x2 criticals (10-20/x3 for Weapon Masters).


All bonuses to attributes stack too. You can get maximum +12 to strength, dexterity or any other attribute if you wear +3 boots, +2 ring, +1 amulet, +4 cloak, +2 helmet (bonus to the attribute).

This has always been like this in NWN 1 right from the beginning. However, on some NWN PWs developers use edition 3.5 and have changed the stacking of bonuses to attributes. On such servers characters get only +3 bonus instead of +6 when they wear +3 boots, +2 ring and +1 amulet.

AC bonuses are similar to DDO. AC bonuses do not stack, except for the bonus to dodge AC.

[Missing_Minds]

1. Attack bonuses of the same type do not stack with each other. For example, bless and aid spells do not stack because they give bonuses of the same type.
2. Improved Critical and Keen do not stack.


I wanted to comment on just these 3 items. These do not stack anywhere. They do not stack in PnP, they do not stack in NWN (unless a custom rule in a PW), and they do not stack here.

1. I think stacked in 3.0 rules which NWN 1 was based off of.
2. Deff stacked in 3.0 rules.

[ReaperAlexEU]

ranged combat:

ammunition does not stack with the weapon firing it

eg a +1 bow and a +1 arrow does not result in +2 attack and +2 dmg, only the highest applies.

so if you have a +3 flaming bow and use +1 cold arrows the result is +3 attack, +3 dmg, flaming and cold

also note adventurers will eventually unlock 75% returning ammunition, and also +3 75% returning ammunition. arcane archers of course can summon 100% returning arrows.

campaign power setting:

DDO starts out at a sensible power setting, from lvl1-10 you can have some quite interesting builds. after lvl10 the power setting starts to ramp up drastically and come lvl20 the power setting is very high leaving little flexibility for deep multi-class builds that have little synergy. multi-classing is not dead, far from it, there is just more care needed to ensure the character has synergies that can be built upon. for example a lvl 1 cleric splash in a lvl20 character is of negligible use. a lvl10 caster deep splash in a lvl20 character is also going to struggle.

another way this power setting manifests its self is in the armour class needed to remain protected. most lvl20 characters ignore armour class as its too hard to maintain. the few dedicated tanks have to work hard at gathering rare items to keep their AC viable. this has resulted in a large hit point buffer being one of the most important forms of defence. so a sub-10 CON elf in NWN might be fine with their high DEX and decent AC, in DDO they will be very weak and prone to dying a lot.

this is due to the level caps the game has had. at release the cap was lvl10, come the first cap raise the player base had the very best gear a lvl10 could possibly have, ie they had all become munchkins. to keep the game interesting the developers had to up the ante and make the new quests harder. this story repeated over and over as the cap was raised each time, the caps were 10, 12, 14, 16, 20.

my first DDO character was a duplicate of a NWN character, a pure fighter with max STR and enough DEX to fill out a suit of full plate for protection. in NWN the armour was useful all the way to the end, in DDO the only reason i kept the armour is because I found a very nice looking red suit with spikes, it offers no protection to my character. luckily with max STR and plenty of CON my character remained viable, but he became a glass cannon instead of a tank. DDO has a power setting unlike any DnD game I have played before. some of the weapons we have at lvl20 should in all rights be artefacts or epics.

please don't be put off by the power setting, just bear it in mind and stick with a safe build for you're first trip to lvl20. there are some great resources on these forums for newbie friendly builds, of particular note is tihocan's Revisiting paths: Builds for new players (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660) in the new player advice and guidance section. once you've experienced lvl20 first hand you'll be in a much better position to let your imaginations run wild with interesting multi-class builds.

RE: stacking

the stacking rules changed greatly between DnD 3.0 and 3.5. in 3.0 lots of stuff stacked, in 3.5 the stacking rules were heavily changed. NWN is based on 3.0, DDO is based on 3.5. so the OP is correct to put it in the guide, its an important change.

[Nightalas]

for example a lvl 1 cleric splash in a lvl20 character is of negligible use


How about some levels of paladin for a sorcerer to receive Divine Grace feat and have higher saving throws through charisma? Another example is taking one level of rogue on level 1 to have more points to spend on skills. In DDO it is not possible to save skill points for later level ups but it seems to be possible to become a decent rogue by taking one rogue level after every 3-4 levels and maximising rogue skills and umd during that level up.

That leads to another question. How important is the umd skill in DDO? In NWN it may be impossible to wear some really good high level gear in some cases without high umd skill due to race, class or alignment restrictions.

[ReaperAlexEU]

How about some levels of paladin for a sorcerer to receive Divine Grace feat and have higher saving throws through charisma? Another example is taking one level of rogue on level 1 to have more points to spend on skills. In DDO it is not possible to save skill points for later level ups but it seems to be possible to become a decent rogue by taking one rogue level after every 3-4 levels and maximising rogue skills and umd during that level up.

That leads to another question. How important is the umd skill in DDO? In NWN it may be impossible to wear some really good high level gear in some cases without high umd skill due to race, class or alignment restrictions.

there are a ton of good combinations, but you're throwing examples at me that have synergy, many mix's dont. in my examples the lvl1 cleric/19 fighter would get some self healing, but come end came the only advantage they would have over a pure fighter is cure crit wands instead of cure serious pots, ie not enough to make up for the loss of the 10% extra dmg a lvl20 fighter gets.

there are a lot of pitfalls to avoid, and not all are clear, even to players who know DnD well.

as for rogues, in DDO a rogue splash is always taken at lvl1 for the bonus skill points. you can then spend 2 skill points per level of the other class to keep the rogue skills maxed.

UMD is probably better in DDO than it was in NWN. the race/alignment restriction is just the icing on the cake. the 2 best uses are heal scrolls and raise dead scrolls. those make UMD worth taking on any build that can get a high score. typically any build with 1 rogue or bar level and 2 skill points per level free to keep it maxed. paladins and sorcs also get great use due to their high char score even without a rogue splash.

to put heal and raise dead into perspective, i've been in a raid before where the cleric got disconnected just as the last fight started. 3 players stepped up with a stack of heal scrolls and kept 1 melee alive to slowly fight towards a victory. without UMD that raid would have been a swift wipe, with UMD it was one hell of a victory. as for raise dead, what could be better than the ability to bring the healer back from the dead if the worst should happen?

any way, good guide so far, i went through many of those shocks my self, some in DnD 3.5 (keen and imp crit, i'm looking at you) and some in DDO.

[flynnjsw]

I don't remember how it is in NWN 2 but in NWN 1 they do stack.

In NWN 1 attack and skill bonuses are not categorised in groups as in DDO. There is no luck, competence or morale bonus. Thus, they all stack, which is also the reason why cleric is such a powerful melee build there.

Improved Critical and Keen item property (permanent or produced by the Keen Edge spell) stack too. For example, longsword has 19-20 critical range which becomes 17-20 with either improved critical or keen which becomes 15-20 with both of these. Scimitar is a very popular weapon in NWN because it can have 12-20/x2 criticals (10-20/x3 for Weapon Masters).


All bonuses to attributes stack too. You can get maximum +12 to strength, dexterity or any other attribute if you wear +3 boots, +2 ring, +1 amulet, +4 cloak, +2 helmet (bonus to the attribute).

This has always been like this in NWN 1 right from the beginning. However, on some NWN PWs developers use edition 3.5 and have changed the stacking of bonuses to attributes. On such servers characters get only +3 bonus instead of +6 when they wear +3 boots, +2 ring and +1 amulet.

AC bonuses are similar to DDO. AC bonuses do not stack, except for the bonus to dodge AC.


1. Attack bonuses of the same type do not stack with each other. For example, bless and aid spells do not stack because they give bonuses of the same type.
2. Improved Critical and Keen do not stack.



1. I think stacked in 3.0 rules which NWN 1 was based off of.
2. Deff stacked in 3.0 rules.

I always forget NWN was based on 3.0 as opposed to 3.5; in 3.5 they do not stack. Consider my comment moot...lol.

[NadgersFishtoaster]

I always forget NWN was based on 3.0 as opposed to 3.5; in 3.5 they do not stack. Consider my comment moot...lol.

I would actually place this in the OP's guide. The differing base D&D system matters.

[Quarterling]

NWN is awesome, but then they announced a NWN MMO that will be using 4th edition rules... =/

Anyways, great guide! +1

[Missing_Minds]

NWN is awesome, but then they announced a NWN MMO that will be using 4th edition rules... =/

To be created by Cryptic that is already struggling trying to keep two fledgling MMOs alive.

Which can all be better understood by the fact.... Cryptic is own by Atari. Man I feel bad for their developers.

[Nightalas]

I would actually place this in the OP's guide. The differing base D&D system matters.

Ok, I added that point to the guide.




NWN is awesome, but then they announced a NWN MMO that will be using 4th edition rules... =/


I know some NWN players who were first excited and then disappointed after they discovered more information about the upcoming NWN MMO. By the way, the NWN MMO that was released in 1991 was the first MMO in the world to display graphics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_(AOL_game)