Dwarves and Axes Particularly Dwarven War Axes

[maddmatt70]

I created my level 20 dwarven fighter, Norg, in the first week this game was released. Norg dual wields dwarven axes. Great job Developers on the look and feel of a dwarf dual-wielding dwarven axes. It looks awesome spinning and twirling while wielding a couple of axes bigger then your head. Fast forward 5 years or so with the coming of the Half-Orc and I see many of my dwarven brethen disappearing from the game. I can not blame my dwarven brethen for deciding to come back as the Half-Orc nor for the lack of new dwarves to fill our ranks, but believe without the dwarves Stormreach will never be the same. It is a crisis the dwarves are dying out.

What can be done? For starters I renew the call for a brand new epic dwarven war axe (the favored one handed weapon of dwarves). We do not want some weak handaxe or battleaxe we want our large dwarven war axe bigger then our heads. Make it bigger then the biggest dwarven war axe just larger then life. It is blasphemy for the dwarves remaining out there to use heavy picks or khopeshes - just blashphemy. We made all the weapons in Stormreach as is so you would think we would get around to making some Dwarven War Axes for ourselves?

Another note and this is not a slam on Half-Orcs, but there is no way they should be able to wield a greataxe as good as us if not better. We know axes. The Half-Orcs probably would not know the right end of an axe. Heck they probably drop the axes on their foot all the time bunch of idiots. I guess you can say the same thing about elves and their silly falchions, but I am not going there - no way. Give us Dwarves another +2 on damage and to-hit with the greataxe/axes in general boost our axe damage however you want to do that.

Back to the Ale and Forge Cheers...

[Uska]

I created my level 20 dwarven fighter, Norg, in the first week this game was released. Norg dual wields dwarven axes. Great job Developers on the look and feel of a dwarf dual-wielding dwarven axes. It looks awesome spinning and twirling while wielding a couple of axes bigger then your head. Fast forward 5 years or so with the coming of the Half-Orc and I see many of my dwarven brethen disappearing from the game. I can not blame my dwarven brethen for deciding to come back as the Half-Orc nor for the lack of new dwarves to fill our ranks, but believe without the dwarves Stormreach will never be the same. It is a crisis the dwarves are dying out.

What can be done? For starters I renew the call for a brand new epic dwarven war axe (the favored one handed weapon of dwarves). We do not want some weak handaxe or battleaxe we want our large dwarven war axe bigger then our heads. Make it bigger then the biggest dwarven war axe just larger then life. It is blasphemy for the dwarves remaining out there to use heavy picks or khopeshes - just blashphemy. We made all the weapons in Stormreach as is so you would think we would get around to making some Dwarven War Axes for ourselves?

Another note and this is not a slam on Half-Orcs, but there is no way they should be able to wield a greataxe as good as us if not better. We know axes. The Half-Orcs probably would not know the right end of an axe. Heck they probably drop the axes on their foot all the time bunch of idiots. I guess you can say the same thing about elves and their silly falchions, but I am not going there - no way. Give us Dwarves another +2 on damage and to-hit with the greataxe/axes in general boost our axe damage however you want to do that.

Back to the Ale and Forge Cheers...


No arguements here go dwarves:D

[grodon9999]

Another note and this is not a slam on Half-Orcs, but there is no way they should be able to wield a greataxe as good as us if not better. We know axes. The Half-Orcs probably would not know the right end of an axe. Heck they probably drop the axes on their foot all the time bunch of idiots. I guess you can say the same thing about elves and their silly falchions, but I am not going there - no way. Give us Dwarves another +2 on damage and to-hit with the greataxe/axes in general boost our axe damage however you want to do that.

Back to the Ale and Forge Cheers...

Signed, the enhancements need to be re-done.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Yup, dwarven axe needs a boost.

A nice named non-epic dwarven axe at L10-16 and an epic version that kicks some ass would be really nice.

The enhancements need work too. 12 AP for +2 to hit, +2 to damage... That bonus needs to double or tripple for that high an AP cost. (yes, I know that matches the drow weapon bonuses, maybe they should go up too so all are drow aren't running around with kopeshes)

[Darkrok]

I created my level 20 dwarven fighter, Norg, in the first week this game was released. Norg dual wields dwarven axes. Great job Developers on the look and feel of a dwarf dual-wielding dwarven axes. It looks awesome spinning and twirling while wielding a couple of axes bigger then your head. Fast forward 5 years or so with the coming of the Half-Orc and I see many of my dwarven brethen disappearing from the game. I can not blame my dwarven brethen for deciding to come back as the Half-Orc nor for the lack of new dwarves to fill our ranks, but believe without the dwarves Stormreach will never be the same. It is a crisis the dwarves are dying out.

What can be done? For starters I renew the call for a brand new epic dwarven war axe (the favored one handed weapon of dwarves). We do not want some weak handaxe or battleaxe we want our large dwarven war axe bigger then our heads. Make it bigger then the biggest dwarven war axe just larger then life. It is blasphemy for the dwarves remaining out there to use heavy picks or khopeshes - just blashphemy. We made all the weapons in Stormreach as is so you would think we would get around to making some Dwarven War Axes for ourselves?

Another note and this is not a slam on Half-Orcs, but there is no way they should be able to wield a greataxe as good as us if not better. We know axes. The Half-Orcs probably would not know the right end of an axe. Heck they probably drop the axes on their foot all the time bunch of idiots. I guess you can say the same thing about elves and their silly falchions, but I am not going there - no way. Give us Dwarves another +2 on damage and to-hit with the greataxe/axes in general boost our axe damage however you want to do that.

Back to the Ale and Forge Cheers...

I've always thought that all of the +1 to damage numbers on general weapon types should be shifted to +2 when using a THF. They got the elven ap's right in that regard.

[IronClan]

/signed they need some love

Dwarven Defender PrE, Give Dwarves Hammers and Picks as alternate racial preferences, and while they're at it fix the one buggy Dwarven axe that got switched with a hand axe model:
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4287/dwarfdax001.jpg

See #3... clearly a hand axe...

And fix it so that one handed Battle Axes aren't bigger than hand and a half DAxes as well (#4).

[Freeman]

I've always thought that all of the +1 to damage numbers on general weapon types should be shifted to +2 when using a THF. They got the elven ap's right in that regard.

The Dwarven axe enhancements give +2 to great axes. I noticed this just a few days ago, but I'm not sure when it started.

[melkor1702]

Yup, dwarven axe needs a boost.

A nice named non-epic dwarven axe at L10-16 and an epic version that kicks some axe would be really nice.



fixed that for you :D

[Swedishchef]

/signed
It´s been to long the dwarfs realy need some love.

[Alintalkin]

I hear ye maddmatt. As a member of a dwarven guild and a person who owns 3 dwarven characters the desire for an increase in the desire for dwarves, and a new shiny dwarven axe is highly desired. Let we dwarves rise with axes in hand and strike down the foe. Let our new weapon gleam from new polish (look awesome) and hold the power to take down the strongest foe (Be a good item that isn't just flavor). Here, Here! Oh mighty Developer's hear us in this time of need and many mugs of ale shall be raised in triumph and glory if you do.

[Kinerd]

Half-orcs are so good with greataxes they don't even have to swing it to hit the enemy. Sometimes you have to just tip your hat.

[parvo]

Halfdorks make money for turb. The solution must do the same. Howabout dark dorfs? Give them a +2 with Heavy Picks or something...

[SardaofChaos]

If the solution is to add a couple more axes to the game I would like to suggest making the drop rate of the Carnifex a little bit higher. I've got a bank slot half full of VoMs because I've already grabbed everything else of value from Delera's, and no Carnifex yet.

[PNellesen]

+1 to OP!

Not to worry - I have a good Dwarf Tempest Ranger/fighter coming up (level 9 now, kicking a** in level 10 and 11 quests like he was on Korthos), and he turns his nose up at those namby-pamby great axes and battle axes he finds. Dual-Daxes or Death!

(BTW - Elves are also a fine race, but any Elf who'd use a falchion over dual-scimis... well... I won't even go there :( )




[ /humor, for all the serious number-crunchers out there ;) ]

[QuantumFX]

The problem could be helped with more than just a piece of gear. Do some interesting stuff with the Racial weapon enhancements to make them worth more than spending a feat on Khopeshes. (Covered in depth here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=287761).)

[EustaceTrevelyan]

/signed for shore, my first main was corrock, a dwarven tempest ranger (well after the ranger heyday, but I love ranger types, dwarves, and dual axes.) FWIW my H Orc uses falchions for general critastic awesomeness.

[Nysrock]

While I agree that the Dwarf enhancement line needs looking at and would love some named dwarven axes in game I really don't see us dying out. For myself I have 7 out of 11 characters as a dwarf. And all of them as guzzling ale and kicking axe all over the place. :D

[andbr22]

I think Dwarves are good.
While Axes are lower dps than Super weapon of uberness (Kops), and elven weaponary (scimis, rapiers, falhons) but:
- Typical dwarf is 70 HP over elf -> that make him better, much better (usually dead DPS don't do much DPS), what more this make him better Wizard than elven wizard (what do you want 70 HP or 60 SP?).
- Dwarven fighter with Daxes (GAxe) isn't much behind to elf fighter with scimy/rapier(Falhon) due to better scaling of critic.
- Daxes have resonable AH prices and are common, while kops and rapiers are totally overpriced, and scimitars / falhons are not common weapons.
- No UMD good trowing weapon called dwarven trower that also scales with dwarven weaponery.
- Dwarves get enchantment line that increase all his saves against spells -> really nice.
- Dwarves get tactics bonusses - next nice enchantment line.

But of course problem is there are generally better choises:
- Super weapon of uberness - kops
- DPS called Horc
- self repair Wizard called Tin Can
- immunimity master of Tin Can

[Fishcatch22]

They need to make Dwarven weapon bonuses (and other races weapon bonuses for that matter) better overall. Combining the to-hit and attack bonus into one would go a long way IMO. This, and adding more named Daxes into the game, would make dwarves stronger overall. They still have a lot going for them- 2+ con is a great stat to geta boost in, and -2 cha doesn't hurt most classes.

[krogyy]

i agree that the racial weapon lines should be improved.

maybe up it to three tiers with cost 1/2/3.

another thing that would be really nice is to let dwarves treat all axes other than dwarven axe as a simple weapon.
this would let all those dwarven rogues, bards, clerics etc to man up and wield a fitting weapon for a change.

[sephiroth1084]

One solution to the horcs wielding axes better might be in changing the horc THF bonuses to +1 per tier (total +2) to differentiate them from the other races that now get +2 per tier. Or the racial bonuses for dwarves, elves and drow could be folded into one set of enhancements that grant bonuses on to-hit and damage, rather than two separate lines.

[EDIT] They really did overdo it with Horcs. More damage than anyone else if that's what you want, or as much to-hit with more or equal damage as everyone else, and they basically get 2 ranks of tactics enhancements essentially for free.

[bryanmeerkat]

You dont have to pay for Dwarfs so you are not allowed any cookies . Sorry . Its a shame that it is this way but life is cold and cruel .

[Alabore]

Halfdorks make money for turb. The solution must do the same. Howabout dark dorfs? Give them a +2 with Heavy Picks or something...

My first char ever was a Dwarven Fighter.
I somehow managed to get him almost about right, stat-wise, and a couple of none-too-radical feat and PrE respeccings later, he's still one of my favourite toons.

...

The OP makes a good point - and I like the idea of adding warhammers and picks to the list of dwarven-favoured weaponry.

Parvo and bryan make a good point too though.
Horcs are a p2p race - and that's the flip side of running a micro-transaction-based game.
If you have to pay for it, it better be worth your money.

...

Personally I'm not too happy with it: in pnp half orcs are not supposed to be THAT good.
They are a 0 ECL race, and the downsides usually offset the extra str.

Paid races/classes are a departure from pnp spirit I'm still trying to get my mind around.

...

All considered, Duergars as a PC race, as the dwarven equivalent to horc, would make some sense, though.

[Monkey_Archer]

/Signed on the new epic dwarvern axes, and an actual DPS greataxe would be nice too (not a cheap min 2 alternative or hate toy, epic carnifex please ;))

Racial weapon bonuses for dwarves and elves should be doubled (+4 single/ +8 2handed) or a new enhancment like +1 crit range should be added.

[Molotov]

Yes to a sweet d axe and even bigger yes to letting us make duergar

[ArloOne]

I believe the little grog drinkers need a little love for sure!

[Vallin]

Khyber's Dwarven Defenders approve of this thread.

My ultimate wish is for all dwarves, regardless of class, be granted dwarven axe proficiency. It makes sense (and my cleric would be oh so happy).

Dwarven clerics don't want to look stupid holding a mace like some fool human.

Vallin.

[painindaguild]

good idea of the epic daxe. really could use that.

im a great fan of doubling up the bonusses of racial weapons. the ap cost is simply too high to justify spending atm.
I think it would be a great idea to making +2 damage per tier up to +4 for singlehanded weapons, and +8 total damage for greataxe.
some people consider this to be going too far.
There could also be added a third tier (up to +3 total damage) but keeping the ap for the 3 tiers the same as the 2 tiers are currently.
racial weapon bonusses are currently just too expensive for what it does.

and to comment the people that say dwarf does not deserve an good epic dwarven axe cus dwarf is f2p. well... there are alot of ways for turbine to make more money the current way. (khopesh is also f2p)
giving dwarves also a reasonable epic weapon is only what is right.

but Matt, u really axed a good question :D

[bryanmeerkat]

i agree that the racial weapon lines should be improved.

maybe up it to three tiers with cost 1/2/3.

another thing that would be really nice is to let dwarves treat all axes other than dwarven axe as a simple weapon.
this would let all those dwarven rogues, bards, clerics etc to man up and wield a fitting weapon for a change.

But that would give battleaxes some sort of excuse to exsist ????? This cannot happen .

[Khanyth]

Boost the racial stats, not the racial weapons or axe drop rates.

Or hell, make something new that will lower the crit ranges of all axes by 1 per level (max of 3) for all dwarves for all axes.

That last one will bring back the players to the Stumps

[bryanmeerkat]

and to comment the people that say dwarf does not deserve an good epic dwarven axe cus dwarf is f2p. well... there are alot of ways for turbine to make more money the current way.


Its not so much that they dont deserve it but from turbines point of view every time someone rerolls a dwarf into a half orc they make money . ( i know not technically everytime .example . example blah de blah )
What possible incentive do they have to keep dwarfs rocking on the same playing field as the p2p races .
Its a big shame as the p2p races are rather unflavoursome . Id much prefer to see 1 half orc in a see of dwarfs flavour wise , But its never gonna happen .

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Dwarves are a very powerful race, that has a lot of survivability bonuses that Half Orcs do not have.

I think they over did it on Half Orcs. They really are the DPS kings. But they lack in defensive abilities. And Dwarves have plenty to make them tough and durable.

I think it balances out.

[grodon9999]

Dwarves are a very powerful race, that has a lot of survivability bonuses that Half Orcs do not have.

I think they over did it on Half Orcs. They really are the DPS kings. But they lack in defensive abilities. And Dwarves have plenty to make them tough and durable.

I think it balances out.

No, it doesn't. Horcs are OTT and since I don't see any nerfs on the horizon the other races need a buff.

[Ungood]

I created my level 20 dwarven fighter, Norg, in the first week this game was released. Norg dual wields dwarven axes. Great job Developers on the look and feel of a dwarf dual-wielding dwarven axes. It looks awesome spinning and twirling while wielding a couple of axes bigger then your head. Fast forward 5 years or so with the coming of the Half-Orc and I see many of my dwarven brethen disappearing from the game. I can not blame my dwarven brethen for deciding to come back as the Half-Orc nor for the lack of new dwarves to fill our ranks, but believe without the dwarves Stormreach will never be the same. It is a crisis the dwarves are dying out.

What can be done? For starters I renew the call for a brand new epic dwarven war axe (the favored one handed weapon of dwarves). We do not want some weak handaxe or battleaxe we want our large dwarven war axe bigger then our heads. Make it bigger then the biggest dwarven war axe just larger then life. It is blasphemy for the dwarves remaining out there to use heavy picks or khopeshes - just blashphemy. We made all the weapons in Stormreach as is so you would think we would get around to making some Dwarven War Axes for ourselves?

/Signed and Agreed!


Another note and this is not a slam on Half-Orcs, but there is no way they should be able to wield a greataxe as good as us if not better. We know axes. The Half-Orcs probably would not know the right end of an axe. Heck they probably drop the axes on their foot all the time bunch of idiots. I guess you can say the same thing about elves and their silly falchions, but I am not going there - no way. Give us Dwarves another +2 on damage and to-hit with the greataxe/axes in general boost our axe damage however you want to do that.

Auctually they would be better with Large Axes, But I would rather see them get their own signature weapon!

http://mistrealm.com/DnD/Weapons/AxeOrcDouble.html


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z166/Ungood_Images/axesl.jpg

You have gotta admit, that would be cool if they put those in!

[Delt]

/Signed and Agreed!



Auctually they would be better with Large Axes, But I would rather see them get their own signature weapon!

http://mistrealm.com/DnD/Weapons/AxeOrcDouble.html

You have gotta admit, that would be cool if they put those in!

They were in...or at least, the weapon category was included in the AH for a time (IIRC). I was kinda surprised it wasn't included with the Half Orc release.

I wonder whatever happened to that. Guess Turbine couldn't get the animation correct or it was too much work.

[Ungood]

They were in...or at least, the weapon category was included in the AH for a time (IIRC). I was kinda surprised it wasn't included with the Half Orc release.

I wonder whatever happened to that. Guess Turbine couldn't get the animation correct or it was too much work.

QS animation would be fine, as for anything else, a typical 1d12 20/x3 Great Axe, with inherent +5% (or +10%) double-strike I would wager would make people very happy.

[hit_fido]

Rather than DPS enhancements which run counter to Turbine's motivation for making a pay-to-play DPS race, one very simple and flavor-consistent change: reduce AP costs on dwarven tactics from 2/4/6 to 1/2/3 to match half-orc AP costs on action boosts. Not overpowering, but an empowering change which keeps the pay-to-play race earning for Turbine.

[grodon9999]

Rather than DPS enhancements which run counter to Turbine's motivation for making a pay-to-play DPS race, one very simple and flavor-consistent change: reduce AP costs on dwarven tactics from 2/4/6 to 1/2/3 to match half-orc AP costs on action boosts. Not overpowering, but an empowering change which keeps the pay-to-play race earning for Turbine.


That fine as well but not frigging horc should do more damage than a dwarf does with a D-axe. let them have Khopesh and all that other stuff, the dwarf with his axe should be top damage with that weapon.

[hit_fido]

That fine as well but not frigging horc should do more damage than a dwarf does with a D-axe. let them have Khopesh and all that other stuff, the dwarf with his axe should be top damage with that weapon.

A max-strength half-orc simply has higher strength than a max-strength dwarf, up to 4 more strength. So a half-orc that spends a feat on dwarven axes will always do +2 more damage than a dwarf that got the feat for free assuming we're comparing same builds, say, fighter 20. How do you want to rectify this in a way that doesn't make dwarves with free dwarven axes the top DPS race?

One possibility I can see is an "advanced axe training" feat that adds +2/+2 hit/damage when using dwarven axes. At that point if a dwarf makes the same investment (spends a feat), they can do as much damage with that weapon as the stronger half-orc or more damage when matched up against a same-strength half-orc, but only with dwarven axes. Thoughts?

[Ungood]

You know what would be cool! a P2P dwarf race! Like Duergar!

All that Dwarf Awesomeness and Now in an Evil Package (like Drow) maybe get inherent Axe and Pick Proficiencies! With extra beefy arms and side of Enhanced Item Protection.

And Turbine could make them better then their other P2P races, because, they are Dwarves!!

[hit_fido]

You know what would be cool! a P2P dwarf race! Like Duergar!

I'd be happy and would probably drop $$ if they set up a scheme where there were enhanced versions of existing races for a p2p fee. So don't add a brand new race with new 3d models and ui changes, just spend 995 turbine points and your Plain Dwarf is now a Paragon Dwarf or some such, letting you get discounted AP costs on enhancements or building on the above giving a free feat in "superior exotic mastery: dwarven axes" and so on.

Same principle for other currently free to play races for which people have grown fond of playing their character and now feel marginalized. Turbine still collects $$ in exchange for more power, players feel like their beloved toons still have a path forward that doesn't involve a TR into a different race.

[painindaguild]

Its not so much that they dont deserve it but from turbines point of view every time someone rerolls a dwarf into a half orc they make money . ( i know not technically everytime .example . example blah de blah )


Nah, im sure there is some truth in this statement, but i do not believe the generalization.

dwarf most popular class used for is a cleric. favoured soul and bard also have a great percentage dwarves.
yes dwarven barbarians, fighters and monks are common, but not nearly as much used as horc, warforged, or even human on these classes.
My point is: Dwarf is not a real match for Horc on dps classes. Even totally f2p players will prefer human over dwarf (free khopesh feat, str bracket).

Dwarf is one of the favourite races for divine (melee) casters and support classes. If turbine really was all about the money they would have given dwarfs DA profiency and a path in the favoured soul diety. But they didnt, it's not all about the money.
Turbine still believes in a game that is fun to play and where evryone can shine, even if u think outside the box or do not rely on p2p stuff. And so do I.

Now let's wait for that epic daxe to come :)

[grodon9999]

A max-strength half-orc simply has higher strength than a max-strength dwarf, up to 4 more strength. So a half-orc that spends a feat on dwarven axes will always do +2 more damage than a dwarf that got the feat for free assuming we're comparing same builds, say, fighter 20. How do you want to rectify this in a way that doesn't make dwarves with free dwarven axes the top DPS race?

One possibility I can see is an "advanced axe training" feat that adds +2/+2 hit/damage when using dwarven axes. At that point if a dwarf makes the same investment (spends a feat), they can do as much damage with that weapon as the stronger half-orc or more damage when matched up against a same-strength half-orc, but only with dwarven axes. Thoughts?

It doesn't matter, it just ain't right.

[Kza]

/signed

More named dorf axes! Both epics and lvl 16+

[Ungood]

/signed

More named dorf axes! Both epics and lvl 16+

I'll /sign that!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

No, it doesn't. Horcs are OTT and since I don't see any nerfs on the horizon the other races need a buff.

And you felt so strongly that I am wrong that you gave neg rep for it. :rolleyes:

[grodon9999]

And you felt so strongly that I am wrong that you gave neg rep for it. :rolleyes:

I didn't give you neg rep that post, but I will for your false assumption :P

[Ungood]

I'd be happy and would probably drop $$ if they set up a scheme where there were enhanced versions of existing races for a p2p fee. So don't add a brand new race with new 3d models and ui changes, just spend 995 turbine points and your Plain Dwarf is now a Paragon Dwarf or some such, letting you get discounted AP costs on enhancements or building on the above giving a free feat in "superior exotic mastery: dwarven axes" and so on.

But you have to admit, Duergar would be easy for body, just a Dwarf, with a color change, and maybe a rougher look to their faces. And they would add some evil awesomeness to the game!


Same principle for other currently free to play races for which people have grown fond of playing their character and now feel marginalized. Turbine still collects $$ in exchange for more power, players feel like their beloved toons still have a path forward that doesn't involve a TR into a different race.

Ok, I will admit, this Paragon idea, is enticing, like a 32 point build up grade, add some extra racial flair to your current build.

Even offer a Greater Reincarnation option for people that bought it, to upgrade their current main.

Has potential.

[markusthelion]

+1 for Dwarf love! /signed for an epicable D. Axe that rocks :)

[Kmnh]

/signed

Devs, please give us an insane epic Daxe on the next p2p pack