Suggested change to BTC items

[Thuldorn]

I was on a VoD raid yesterday with my Rogue, hoping foir some goggles. Low and behold on opening the chest I get...Gloves of the Glacier! Totally unusable for me. I put them up for roll and the only Arcane already had them and nobody wanted to roll on them. Now I have a Sorcerer that would love to have them, but they're BTC so my only option is to hang on to them till I TR as an arcane (if I do) or sell them to a vendor.

Why not make items like this Bound to Account on acquire and Bound to Character on equip?

Sure there would be less rolling for items, but I've read plenty of complaints about people not putting things up for roll even when their toon can't use it so that shouldn't be a consideration.

[articwarrior]

because then people wont allow rolls on anything, it will allow lower level toons to get high end content-imagine getting a ToD set on a fresh lvl 18-game breaking

/not signed

[Memnir]

No thank you.

[DrNuegebauer]

But I gotz lutz I can't uze?

[h4x0r1f1c]

/not signed

Say I'm in a DQ and I want a Torc and some melee gets it..

"OH THIS'LL BE GREAT FOR MY CASTER!"

I miss out. :( /notsigned again.

[Sirea]

No.

And just to cover all the other threads that'll pop up begging for this easy button this year:

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

[Ravoc-DDO]

because then people wont allow rolls on anything, it will allow lower level toons to get high end content-imagine getting a ToD set on a fresh lvl 18-game breaking

/not signed

I don't think so tbh. When items become bta, players will actually put items up for roll more in the long term, because they'll have it faster on their account. And I really don't see the issue with a toon-transferrable ToD set (non-upgraded that is) if you've earned em before yourself.

The major drawback I would see with this, is that raids get run less as players would no longer need to regrind stuff again for each and every toon.

[Impaqt]

No. Raid loot should be used by the character that gets it. Period.

GLoves can be used by arcanes and divines equally. Even my bard carries Maximize and could use those gloves.

If everyone had them already, oh well.

[Bloodhaven]

I would like it if all BTC items were changed to BTA and BTC was abolished altogether.

BTC prevents people from bringing the most useful toon to a raid as opposed to the one that needs the item.

I only tun TOD on my ranger because he needs the tempest ring. I have several healers/kiters that can run TOD but I need the ring on my ranger so I run him.


Same can be said of all raids.

[Bloodhaven]

The major drawback I would see with this, is that raids get run less as players would no longer need to regrind stuff again for each and every toon.

People will still run them for tomes and random loot. But mostly for tomes.

[Sirea]

I would like it if all BTC items were changed to BTA and BTC was abolished altogether.

BTC prevents people from bringing the most useful toon to a raid as opposed to the one that needs the item.

I only tun TOD on my ranger because he needs the tempest ring. I have several healers/kiters that can run TOD but I need the ring on my ranger so I run him.


Same can be said of all raids.

How is a Tempest not useful in ToD? Couldn't you just run your other toons while the ranger is on timer?

[Thuldorn]

No. Raid loot should be used by the character that gets it. Period.

GLoves can be used by arcanes and divines equally. Even my bard carries Maximize and could use those gloves.

If everyone had them already, oh well.

Except in my case I got them on my pure ROGUE, totally useless. And I did put them up for roll, for some reason none of the casters (any variety) wanted to roll on them.

[Sirea]

Except in my case I got them on my pure ROGUE, totally useless. And I did put them up for roll, for some reason none of the casters (any variety) wanted to roll on them.

OK, then it becomes vendor trash, AKA, more money in your pocket. More money is not useless ;)

The Gloves drop fairly regularly anyways. It's the Bracers that are the valuable part of that set.

[Thuldorn]

How is a Tempest not useful in ToD? Couldn't you just run your other toons while the ranger is on timer?

For me the situation is this. I have a sorcerer, it seems whenever I run VoD with him that gaurantees Tharnes googles drop (whihc I want for my Rogue) and whenever I run my Rogue Gloves of the Glacier drop (which I want for my Sorc). In the last run on my rogue I just happened to be the one to have the gloves in the chest.

So from a frustration standpoint (i.e. minimizing mine) I've considered simply running only my Rogue till I get the googles before running the Sorc in there again (I need the goggles on the rogue more than the gloves on the Sorc).

[Gorbadoc]

Now hang on a minute. There are items that bind to account on acquire. There are items that bind to character on equip. I think there might even already be items that bind to account on acquire, then to character on equip. None of these has broken the game.

And, heck, we do have instances of BTC drops changing to BTA drops. I still have a half dozen BTC Visors of the Flesh Render Guards on various characters, though all new Visors are BTA.

The question is, does this make the game better? In the case of Flesh Render goggles, I tend to think, yes, it makes the game better. There's enough level 3-7 content now that it's a pointless annoyance to have to run EVERY non-divine character I build through Tangleroot for goggles; let the quest's popularity be based on how fun it is, not on how important its loot is. Besides, while the goggles are a huge convenience, they don't make a build noticeably stronger.

In the case of Gloves of the Glacier, though, others have already pointed out that 1) the items DO make builds noticeably stronger, and 2) the change does hurt players who aren't passing items between five characters. So we have a reason NOT to want this change implemented.

As for reasons to implement this change-- the OP hasn't suggested any. The change would remove an inconvenience which is working as intended. That's not really an argument; it's inconvenient that I have to run quests for XP, and yet I wouldn't suggest that I should be able to level up at will.

If this change were to remove an inconvenience and do so in a way that makes the game more fun, then we would have reason to talk. Until then, /notsigned.

[JohnWarlock]

See that's the point exactly, if people where motivated to run other toons in raids, not just the one they NEED to run stuff with.

and what is all this overpowered stuff, if the item is set to a level, it is not over powered. Overpowered would be to have a level 1 using a ToD set, if you are level 18, you are not over powered by getting said item.

I keep insisting people whine and complain about making raid items bta, rather than btc, it makes no sense why you complain. There are power raiders and casual raiders, there will be a time when power raiders will have everything they need, I already know a couple, they don't stop running raids, tomes are too good to pass on. Only places to get +3 and +4 tomes are raids. So saying people will stop running raids is a ridiculous statement, unless they are not interested in tome raiding. However if someone has a full set of +4 tomes on their character yes I see them not wanting to raid with that character anymore. However if you make tomes BTA, along with everything else. There is no reason why people shouldn't be running stuff.

But no people yell easy button, what the hell is so easy about running a raid with characters that can't get into groups, and I say this for casters in most raids. You won't see 3-4 casters in a shroud/vod/tod.

Why not let people have that advantage to move stuff to other characters. Besides in the end, if it is not affecting you, why cry over something. You think it's too overpowered. Fine when you loot an item that you char can't use put it up for roll. There problem solved. If not I will start encouraging people to take the items and not put it up for rolls until items become BTA, rather than BTC.

That would solve alot of problems and complaining.

[Gorbadoc]

Why not let people have that advantage to move stuff to other characters. Besides in the end, if it is not affecting you, why cry over something. You think it's too overpowered. Fine when you loot an item that you char can't use put it up for roll. There problem solved. If not I will start encouraging people to take the items and not put it up for rolls until items become BTA, rather than BTC.

That would solve alot of problems and complaining.

So, you being mean to people would solve problems and reduce complaining? I understand the concept of civil disobedience as a means to effect social change, but this idea of yours seems like a stretch.

[Kinerd]

Raid loot should be used by the character that gets it.Why?

[Uska]

NO it would put a near end to loot sharing in raids this topic keeps coming up I wish people would search and see it isnt a popular idea

[Uska]

I would like it if all BTC items were changed to BTA and BTC was abolished altogether.

BTC prevents people from bringing the most useful toon to a raid as opposed to the one that needs the item.

I only tun TOD on my ranger because he needs the tempest ring. I have several healers/kiters that can run TOD but I need the ring on my ranger so I run him.


Same can be said of all raids.

umm your ranger can only run it once every 3 days whats stopping from running your other characters those days he is on timer:confused:

[Uska]

Why?


For raid loot the character should earn it and we have enough easy buttons already.

[Darsith]

For raid loot the character should earn it and we have enough easy buttons already.

I dont play RP.... so my character is me, the player... I do earn raid loot. I still dont quite understand the need for BTC items.




However, I would like to see the stone of change bind stuff to account. (would work like the armor kits, BTA if not bound or it would stay BTC if already bound) Would offer the same advantages to the game that we are already seeing. Items will be prevented from taking permanent damage and still be able to have alchemical things put on them. (this could also give raised sales of shared bank).

[Kinerd]

For raid loot the character should earn it and we have enough easy buttons already.To the first part, why should the character rather than the player earn it? I (the player) still have to complete the raid, what difference does it make which character I'm on?

To the second, can you explain how this is an "easy button", rather than a beneficial change that makes something less tedious?

[Alabore]

No. Raid loot should be used by the character that gets it. Period.

Earnest question: what about Chronoscope?

[Blank_Zero]

No.

And just to cover all the other threads that'll pop up begging for this easy button this year:

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

You forgot a few...hundred....thousand... =D

[~Cereals_Alt]

NO it would put a near end to loot sharing in raids this topic keeps coming up I wish people would search and see it isnt a popular idea LMAO... it isn't a popular idea but it keeps being brought up. I see your logic completely.

To the Op~ I like the idea and I even made a suggestion post about this very same thing a few months ago. My idea involved a cleansing sigil after a certain number of raids to cleanse 1 item and make it BTA/BTCOE my proposed number was 60 raids.

You will never be able to make someone who has only played the game for a year understand that some of us have characters that have been playing the game since launch. Back in the day it was beneficial to short man raids and that some of us already have full sets of raid loot that just sits in the bank. On the plus side you can always keep all your loot and when you TR you have a nice little present waiting for you. By the way I put a lot of raid loot up for roll, always have and always will even if this is implemented. Many times I have ran a Titan raid and had loot drop that no one in the group could use like a docent.

It is unfortunate that there are a few people on the forums though that will flame you to death over this. Even though the loot you choose to pull or put up for roll has no bearing how powerful anyones character is or ever will be other than your own. The mere thought of someone having something they don't makes them cringe.

TLDR; /signed

[Xenus_Paradox]

It would reduce rolling on loot. HOWEVER, it would also reduce the need to roll on loot as you'll be able to farm a given item on all your characters in/above the appropriate level range.

/notsure

[Bloodhaven]

How is a Tempest not useful in ToD? Couldn't you just run your other toons while the ranger is on timer?

When the TOD group is waiting for a kiter or healer to start.

Waiting 30 mins with my ranger who needs a ring or log my healer who has no need of a ring.

I would rather run the ranger that needs the ring.


If these items were BTA I would run whatever toon made the quest go faster/smoother.

Tempest is use full however in most TOD groups you will see 10 + Meele DPS in the group and all they need to start is a healer. The same can be said about shroud and power shards or any quest with BTC items.

[Bloodhaven]

NO it would put a near end to loot sharing in raids this topic keeps coming up I wish people would search and see it isnt a popular idea

This argument was used when they were about to implement TR. Loot still gets rolled a lot.

[Zharfie]

Earnest question: what about Chronoscope?

for chronoscope the easy loot makes kind of sense since it's such a low level quest and the stuff is so low level that most people will out-level the quest very fast and never run it again at level. if the stuff was btc it would only be useful as epic and for TR toons.

chronoscope also gives named items as end reward every time and they drop from the chests like candy.

/not signed for the btc -> bta change.

[CrosisBlackwing]

Not Signed.

This idea reminds me of the Group Leader passing out two Raid Loot Tokens and only those players getting loot.
It isn't a direct comparison, but let me explain.

Under this new system, if I join a Raid run by mostly players in the same guild, why would they ever want to let me roll, or eveen pass me loot I can use? Certainly there is some guildy in the raid that can use it, and guildies are normally more important than the random pugger.
Under the Loot Token system, if I join the raid run by mostly players of the same guild, why would the leader pass a PuG the token instead of a guildy?

Conclusion: They won't.

I like how the suggestion would help, but I do not like how I percieve it to harm. I want (essentially) the same chance to get my loot no matter if it is a PuG, or if it is a Guild Raid. Our current system isn't perfect, but it does work. (To an extent.) The grind is part of the game, if you don't like it, you don't have to do it.

[ulticleo]

See that's the point exactly, if people where motivated to run other toons in raids, not just the one they NEED to run stuff with.

^ This.

yes, you'll have less chance to roll on the loot, but guess what? that's fine. I can't remember the number of times I pulled a torq or bracers of the glaciers on my melee, or madstone boots or tharnes on my caster etc. If they were BTA, I wouldn't need to sit there and hope that *someone* would pull them, *and* be kind to put it up for roll, *and* I win the roll. instead, I run all my toons through the raid, and when *any* of them pull the item, problem solved.

"people won't put it up for roll" is not a good enough reason. Oh, and as Mr. Cow likes to say - pointless grind is pointless.

/signed

[Beethoven]

/signed

Now, I will agree the side-effect would be that some stuff is not put up for roll because people could use it on an alt. Then again, I see Seals and Shards put up for roll all the time. There also seems far less drama. Bound raid loot causes drama all the time.

On the up-side, it would allow players to choose toons by what the group needs. ToD is a classic example. It's getting harder and harder to find experienced kiters since they long have their rings and much rather would take a toon who still doesn't have their set; same with hjeals (I am one of them). With 40+ completion on my Tempest and still no Tempest ring, fat chance you get me in there as healer except for guildies and close friends and also only if the raid happening depends on me healing it.

As for popularity, it's a pretty common occurrence to hear someone say, "I wish those silly rings would be bta. Then I wouldn't mind healing/kiting so much.

You have a similar situation with eV6 and bards and the exact opposite with eDQ (drops good stuff for casters who still needs base items, but few groups go with more than a single arcane).

I just don't see a lot backing up the remaining arguments:

* it's in no way similar to the past raid loot/token system. It's the same system used now with epic shards/seals and I have yet to see a party leader gain the magical ability to collect all of them and then re-assign them to guildies.
* I don't think saying people who have epic gear don't "deserve" it since shards/seals are btc and scrolls not bound at all. In fact, having VoD goggles or Madstone boots isn't commonly considered something all that speshful, having certain epic gear on the other hand is (ie: epic Spell Storing rings consist of two pieces that are not bound and two pieces that are bta).
* easy button: it doesn't effect the difficulty of the quest/raid at all. It does make the grind easier since players with multiple toons do not necessarily have to wait for timers on specific toons being up.

So, to me it boils down to:

* Btc: Grind takes somewhat longer since people want loot on specific toons and thus need to wait for the timer being up. More stuff will be put up for roll with the negative effect of increased drama if someone loots/rolls on something where the benefit could be put in question (ie: melees and VoD Bracers).
* Bta: allows people to switch to whatever toon the group needs most and still have a chance to get what they are looking for out of there. It's likely less stuff will be up for roll, therefor groups will be easier to fill.

I rather have the later than the former if it means less waiting to fill a group and no more constant feeling sorry for someone having to "take one for the team" and switch to a toon that doesn't need anything from the raid just so the thing can actually happen.

[sweez]

Level 20 Chrono farming runs. Over and over again. Is that what you want the future to look like?

[Bloodhaven]

/signed

Now, I will agree the side-effect would be that some stuff is not put up for roll because people could use it on an alt. Then again, I see Seals and Shards put up for roll all the time. There also seems far less drama. Bound raid loot causes drama all the time.

On the up-side, it would allow players to choose toons by what the group needs. ToD is a classic example. It's getting harder and harder to find experienced kiters since they long have their rings and much rather would take a toon who still doesn't have their set; same with hjeals (I am one of them). With 40+ completion on my Tempest and still no Tempest ring, fat chance you get me in there as healer except for guildies and close friends and also only if the raid happening depends on me healing it.

As for popularity, it's a pretty common occurrence to hear someone say, "I wish those silly rings would be bta. Then I wouldn't mind healing/kiting so much.

You have a similar situation with eV6 and bards and the exact opposite with eDQ (drops good stuff for casters who still needs base items, but few groups go with more than a single arcane).

I just don't see a lot backing up the remaining arguments:

* it's in no way similar to the past raid loot/token system. It's the same system used now with epic shards/seals and I have yet to see a party leader gain the magical ability to collect all of them and then re-assign them to guildies.
* I don't think saying people who have epic gear don't "deserve" it since shards/seals are btc and scrolls not bound at all. In fact, having VoD goggles or Madstone boots isn't commonly considered something all that speshful, having certain epic gear on the other hand is (ie: epic Spell Storing rings consist of two pieces that are not bound and two pieces that are bta).
* easy button: it doesn't effect the difficulty of the quest/raid at all. It does make the grind easier since players with multiple toons do not necessarily have to wait for timers on specific toons being up.

So, to me it boils down to:

* Btc: Grind takes somewhat longer since people want loot on specific toons and thus need to wait for the timer being up. More stuff will be put up for roll with the negative effect of increased drama if someone loots/rolls on something where the benefit could be put in question (ie: melees and VoD Bracers).
* Bta: allows people to switch to whatever toon the group needs most and still have a chance to get what they are looking for out of there. It's likely less stuff will be up for roll, therefor groups will be easier to fill.

I rather have the later than the former if it means less waiting to fill a group and no more constant feeling sorry for someone having to "take one for the team" and switch to a toon that doesn't need anything from the raid just so the thing can actually happen.


I can see turbine making the change from BTC to BTA.

[Alabore]

for chronoscope the easy loot makes kind of sense since it's such a low level quest and the stuff is so low level that most people will out-level the quest very fast and never run it again at level. if the stuff was btc it would only be useful as epic and for TR toons.
chronoscope also gives named items as end reward every time and they drop from the chests like candy.
/not signed for the btc -> bta change.


Level 20 Chrono farming runs. Over and over again. Is that what you want the future to look like?

I have trouble getting your point, gents.
Either Chrono gear is easily out-levelled, or it's so good compared to same-level gear people won't join anything but a lvl 20 loot train.

...

I would be inclined to agree with Beethoven above.

[Eladiun]

/not signed

[Kinerd]

The grind is part of the game, if you don't like it, you don't have to do it.You can always make the game more grindy by just not accepting the item. It is not possible to make the game less grindy by accepting an item that isn't offered to you.

[Uska]

LMAO... it isn't a popular idea but it keeps being brought up. I see your logic completely.

To the Op~ I like the idea and I even made a suggestion post about this very same thing a few months ago. My idea involved a cleansing sigil after a certain number of raids to cleanse 1 item and make it BTA/BTCOE my proposed number was 60 raids.

You will never be able to make someone who has only played the game for a year understand that some of us have characters that have been playing the game since launch. Back in the day it was beneficial to short man raids and that some of us already have full sets of raid loot that just sits in the bank. On the plus side you can always keep all your loot and when you TR you have a nice little present waiting for you. By the way I put a lot of raid loot up for roll, always have and always will even if this is implemented. Many times I have ran a Titan raid and had loot drop that no one in the group could use like a docent.

It is unfortunate that there are a few people on the forums though that will flame you to death over this. Even though the loot you choose to pull or put up for roll has no bearing how powerful anyones character is or ever will be other than your own. The mere thought of someone having something they don't makes them cringe.

TLDR; /signed

been here since beta and this ranks amoung the top 5 worst ideas ever period. and yes I remember shortmanning raids and getting ripped off on loot.

[Uska]

This argument was used when they were about to implement TR. Loot still gets rolled a lot.

not even close to the samething and many wont ever tr its a horrible borring grind(yeah I do it on a couple of characters) and I dont ask for loot to use for when I tr.

[Bloodhaven]

not even close to the samething and many wont ever tr its a horrible borring grind(yeah I do it on a couple of characters) and I dont ask for loot to use for when I tr.

How is it not the same?

Old argument was that people will keep all the loot to use on their TR's.

New argument is people will keep all the loot to use on their alts.

I do not see a whole lot of difference there.

[AtomicMew]

How is it not the same?

Old argument was that people will keep all the loot to use on their TR's.

New argument is people will keep all the loot to use on their alts.

I do not see a whole lot of difference there.

It is the same, and Uska is being shortsighted. I have seen enough loot abuse to realize that the current system is borked. As it is, I would much rather people see people earn their own loot than get it for free. If you are an average player, you'd see the same amount of loot across all of your characters, and it wouldn't affect you on the average. It would only negatively affect you if you are someone who abuses the loot and /roll system (e.g., proxy rolling, exchanging, etc.) Frankly, I do not see /roll as an integral part of this game.

[~Cereals_Alt]

been here since beta and this ranks amoung the top 5 worst ideas ever period. and yes I remember shortmanning raids and getting ripped off on loot. I'm sorry you got ripped off running shortman raids. I happened to run many of them with only 1 other person so that made it pretty hard to rip off anyone. I personally like running a full raid group much better myself also. Because like I said I actually put loot up for roll.

Step outside the box for a minute and think about how many other people play this game besides just yourself. Consider this, You run ADQ with 1 caster 2 healers and 9 melee and a torque drops for one of those 9 melee classes. Melee offers to put it up for roll but the caster and the healers already have one. So now what? the melee is gonna take it. If it was BTA/BTCOE then the melee could transfer the torque to his wizzie alt. It would not affect your chance at the loot in any way other than the next time you join a ADQ there might be a wizzie in your group who already has a torque and therefor increases your chance of it being put up for roll if it drops.

Key points here;

1. Loot currently drops in raids that people already have or that they cant use. Under the current system sometimes it gets put up for roll and sometimes it doesn't. Either way it still gets pulled from the chest by someone.

2. Over time people would have more characters that were well equipped and therefore played more often , increasing the number of raids ran on the servers, increasing the number of potential sales of turbine points, and increasing your chances of getting the loot you need.

[Alabore]

2. Over time people would have more characters that were well equipped and therefore played more often , increasing the number of raids ran on the servers, increasing the number of potential sales of turbine points, and increasing your chances of getting the loot you need.

I would tend to agree with this.
More easily shared loot means more appropriately geared characters.

Granted, this might have an impact on server dynamics, such as economy and general power creep.
I am not sure this would be an easy button - people already pike some raids for loot.
And I see the problem with unusable gear gathering dust in banks; not everybody is going to TR, anytime soon or at all.

I would like some tweaking of binding mechanism.
Maybe unbound/BtA on acquire and BtC once equipped.
Unlocking rituals would also make sense - the mechanism in Sentinels had merits: gather sigils and unlock powers.

Again, this defeats the one point some DMs tend to enforce: no sharing of resources between characters.
But if that were true, we'd have to disable shared banking, mail and only allow one char per account.

[pHo3nix]

I'm sorry you got ripped off running shortman raids. I happened to run many of them with only 1 other person so that made it pretty hard to rip off anyone. I personally like running a full raid group much better myself also. Because like I said I actually put loot up for roll.

Step outside the box for a minute and think about how many other people play this game besides just yourself. Consider this, You run ADQ with 1 caster 2 healers and 9 melee and a torque drops for one of those 9 melee classes. Melee offers to put it up for roll but the caster and the healers already have one. So now what? the melee is gonna take it. If it was BTA/BTCOE then the melee could transfer the torque to his wizzie alt. It would not affect your chance at the loot in any way other than the next time you join a ADQ there might be a wizzie in your group who already has a torque and therefor increases your chance of it being put up for roll if it drops.



If you got all you need from one raid you wouldn't run it anymore..and people would bring only their melees to raids, cause if you bring your divine or arcane you might have to spend resources (scrolls, sp potions).

/notsigned

[Alabore]

If you got all you need from one raid you wouldn't run it anymore..and people would bring only their melees to raids, cause if you bring your divine or arcane you might have to spend resources (scrolls, sp potions).


I would be inclined to think the opposite, there: they mentioned they would be MORE likely to cycle characters, because they wouldn't have to run a specific toon.
If they could share some of the currently BtC gear around, they could bring their favourite char to a raid, or the one that needs the experience, or the one the party needs, as opposed to the one that needs the particular loot.

Would this be an easy button?
I can't really say: the game has changed a lot since its original inception.
Sometimes I feel we hang onto habits - we used to run the game a certain way, and changes potentially upset that balance.

It's the other side of the coin: we had to put up with nerfs to spells, skills, feats and so on.
For every nerf we get a boost.
I'd see this as a back-swing of the nerf bat.

[~Cereals_Alt]

Seriously, someone gave me neg rep for my post. Whoever it was thank you.. for pointing out to me that following forum guidelines, not saying anything derogatory or inflammatory. gets you just as much neg rep as it would if you just told someone to go *&^*& themselves.

[Alabore]

Seriously, someone gave me neg rep for my post.

Here, have a +1 rep cookie.
I gave you positive rep if it is of any solace.
Do not take it too personally: we all got neg rep we couldn't fathom about.
People sometimes are too much in a hurry to pause and reply, so they'll simply hit neg rep to let you know they disagree with a point or another.

:)

[JohnWarlock]

I love the way people see how negatively things would affect you.

First of all: +3 and +4 tomes only drop from raids, if you want to get tomes you keep running your toons on raids.

Also think about it, if you have a melee, and you have all your shroud gear, tomes, raid gear, even epics. And you want the +6 dex ring from hound on your rogue, but they need an intimitank, what are you going to bring? Your fighter that doesn't need it, or your rogue that needs it? If you bring your fighter, you can intimitank, get it done succesfully and move the ring over to you rogue.

Personally I have given up on doing hound on my bards, the only time I will pull out my bards is when my guildies who are doing TR completionists run HoX. Who wants the ring my AA, he is the one I will look to run the quest with.

Now the other argument is that people will stop putting items for roll, first of all... do you want some cheese for that whine. Second, you know what, you'll get more raids done, cause people will be more inclined to run a raid with all their characters instead of only 1. It's a numbers game.

3rd point is, the benefit of tomes at your 20th completion or the loot you're looking for, make it more accessible for players to play more characters. Also it lets players experiment with builds that normally would either suffer in a raid, not be a productive, or just have a hard time getting into one.

Also if you have so much trouble with items being BTA, when you get them and don't need them, then don't take them and put them up for roll... other people will appreciate you for it.

Another thing people aren't thinking about is, if raid loot where BTA instead of BTC, you have more freedom on your characters. You can just move it from one char to another, specially when you are grinding for epics.

Yes some items will still be hard to come by, Torcs, etc. But why would you keep a ring of thelis +6 dex on your character when he now has ToD rings? Or an epic ring.

People need to start looking at the bigger picture, and yes I will admit there are people who's looting antics are dubious the least, but if you think that is the general population of this game, and how we all act. Then either you are still playing the wrong game, or you are seriously mistaken about the kind of people that usually play this game.

I would take a guess that from all the people I have come in contact with since the game came out, maybe 5% are ******s, idiots, mean, etc people, of course normally people just want to remember who wronged them and hurt them, rather than the good people they meet.

Heck I still remember this girl I met back in 08, we where doing a c06 run and she had pulled a planar gird from xorian and just gave ito to me, cause she said she had no need for it. Most of the people / guilds in this game are good and nice people, if you think otherwise like I said I feel sorry for your experiences.

[Hokiewa]

I can see turbine making the change from BTC to BTA.

No...they won't...They have already commented on why some loot is BTA, BTC etc...

Even if they did, existing raids(sans Chrono) would never become BTA. The main reason is quite obvious.

[Aelonwy]

I would like to see some raid loot made BTA instead of BTC, but I realize I'm in the minority and that Turbine will probably never do it. If I didn't have to run less survivable characters to get raid gear, I'd probably run my cleric most of the time since she's my favorite character anyways, and who doesn't want a cleric in their group? *gentle humor*

[SardaofChaos]

The suggestion was to make them BTC on equip. That's on equip. When you equip them. Negating your problems with people just grabbing one item for all their chars to use and then never running that raid again. On equip.

[Kromize]

BTC prevents people from bringing the most useful toon to a raid as opposed to the one that needs the item.

Right, so basically, you want to get good loot for your gimps, because your gimps are too gimp to get it themselves. Unfortunately for you though, if they're that gimp, they need to be rerolled, if not outright banished from existence.

[callforkills]

Yay - imagine a level 13 sorcerer running around with Glacial assault set.. Then also having bauble, an ess ring lying around, it would simply make the game poo and unbalanced. Low level chars would be uber and therefor have no problem running trough low level content. If the devs then chose to up the difficulity in lowlevels it would be harder for the newbs.

[Bloodhaven]

Then also having bauble, an ess ring lying around, it would simply make the game poo and unbalanced. Low level chars would be uber and therefor have no problem running trough low level content. If the devs then chose to up the difficulity in lowlevels it would be harder for the newbs.

This is already the case with TR's. These items have min levels so you would not see them using Ess until level 20 or the bauble till 18... Glacial assault is 13 i think so you might see that at level.

[Burtle]

No.

And just to cover all the other threads that'll pop up begging for this easy button this year:

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

u forgot "no" too :D


You forgot a few...hundred....thousand... =D
*note to self* READ WHOLE POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cyr]

I think this idea needs to be slightly modified for it to work well...

Change all BtC loot from chests to BtA loot with a special tag that makes it bind to character upon being equipped.

This would essentially make all BtC loot in game function like epic items work now...bind to account parts that when put together become BtC.

There would be the same total amount of each piece of loot needed for everyone's builds as before. Really all this would do is eliminate the dumb mechanic that makes you run certain quests with toons that need certain items instead of the best toon for the party. How epic loot works is the reason why it is far easier to get groups going for epics then it ever was for end game raids.

[Cyr]

Right, so basically, you want to get good loot for your gimps, because your gimps are too gimp to get it themselves. Unfortunately for you though, if they're that gimp, they need to be rerolled, if not outright banished from existence.

Incorrect.

Top end content benefits from taking the toon the party needs which for many players most of the time this is NOT their best toon.

Also, why the heck would anyone reroll a capped toon anymore when TR's exist?

[Phidius]

Right, so basically, you want to get good loot for your gimps, because your gimps are too gimp to get it themselves. Unfortunately for you though, if they're that gimp, they need to be rerolled, if not outright banished from existence.

Just because a build isn't "needed" for a given raid doesn't mean that they are gimped.

[SardaofChaos]

I think this idea needs to be slightly modified for it to work well...

Change all BtC loot from chests to BtA loot with a special tag that makes it bind to character upon being equipped.

This would essentially make all BtC loot in game function like epic items work now...bind to account parts that when put together become BtC.

There would be the same total amount of each piece of loot needed for everyone's builds as before. Really all this would do is eliminate the dumb mechanic that makes you run certain quests with toons that need certain items instead of the best toon for the party. How epic loot works is the reason why it is far easier to get groups going for epics then it ever was for end game raids.
The OP:

I was on a VoD raid yesterday with my Rogue, hoping foir some goggles. Low and behold on opening the chest I get...Gloves of the Glacier! Totally unusable for me. I put them up for roll and the only Arcane already had them and nobody wanted to roll on them. Now I have a Sorcerer that would love to have them, but they're BTC so my only option is to hang on to them till I TR as an arcane (if I do) or sell them to a vendor.

Why not make items like this Bound to Account on acquire and Bound to Character on equip?

Sure there would be less rolling for items, but I've read plenty of complaints about people not putting things up for roll even when their toon can't use it so that shouldn't be a consideration.
My post from earlier this page:

The suggestion was to make them BTC on equip. That's on equip. When you equip them. Negating your problems with people just grabbing one item for all their chars to use and then never running that raid again. On equip.

/facepalm