a way for turbine to make more money and make the grind a little less

[Don1966]

so, been chatting about this idea with a guildie and think i've come up with a way to make the grind for gear a little less and also encourage more people to go vip. there are many quests that drop nice, desirable named loot. however the drop rates on said loot is really low. the first thing that comes to mind is spectral gloves which drops in An Offering of Blood. now i've ran that quest over 30 times so far and not pulled a set. and i know many of you have run it many more times than that trying to get a set and finally did so. what my suggestion is, set up quests that have named loot as possible drops offer all the named loot as an end reward to vips after a set number of runs, say 5 or 10. make end reward named loot BTA so vips can't exploit this to become plat farmers. if the quest has multiple named loot you would have to run it another 5 times to get the second item as an end reward. to me this would lessen the tedious grind trying to get loot which would make the game more enjoyable to me. this would also encourage more people to become vip and generate more income for Turbine which hopefully they could spend on developing new content and upgrading hardware which in turn makes the game more enjoyable for vips and f2p.

[Twerpp]

I used to have a headache with these but since the quest has been epic I have more sets than I know what to do with....

[Lorien_the_First_One]

looking forward to the neg reps from the plat farmers.

I gave you neg rep for violating forum rules by slandering anyone who disagrees with you.

No point discussing any merit your idea might have when you start this way.

[Hailia]

This is a fabulous idea. It definetely would make the game waaaay more enjoyable. And knowing that eventually you would finally end up getting a named item would make more people turn toward a vip status at some point in time perhaps. This is a sound and solid idea.

[Hailia]

I used to have a headache with these but since the quest has been epic I have more sets than I know what to do with....

Ill take one! / Sounds like "your store" has a large over - head. / Ill give ya 100k plat.

[Hailia]

I gave you neg rep for violating forum rules by slandering anyone who disagrees with you.

No point discussing any merit your idea might have when you start this way.

what the heck are you talking about? / Ive seen some of your posts Lorien. Why do you deviate from the actual suggestions in your posts. If you want to go grip about something make YOUR Own thread. Just remember in language a negative and a negative dont make a positive. I found YOUR post to be the most negative in this thread.

[arjiwan]

Sorry, not signed...

How about the Premium guys who paid a lot of money also? (Not Me)

Is it going to be different with buying things directly from DDO Store?

How about the feeling of, "he is stronger and better gear because he pays"? There will be a nagging feeling of forcing you to be a VIP.

[BoolZ]

I think 5-10 runs is way to low to guarantee specific items. WAY to low, and in fact I'm not sure I like the 20th completion raid lists either and I'm pretty sure they don't guarantee anything. Of course Raid loot is also BtC I believe so it doesn't hurt anyone. I think his name on here is Chai, and I agree with what seems to be his concerns with powercreep in the game. Basically if everyone (even just P2P) can get specific named loot before or just after the first ransack then the developers have to assume that everyone (even just P2P) has all the best gear. They then have to adjust mobs and bosses. To the point that AC becomes useless to any build not an AC build and bosses have tens to hundreds of thousands of hit points.

I agree something should be done about the grind but setting such a low limit would do more harm than good, and frankly the grind is the grind and a major facet of DDO. Instead I'd be more inclined to agree with upping the chance for a named item after each opening. Slightly upping the chance. At least that way you know eventually you'll get your Bloodstone or Spectral Gloves. As it is now your odds of pulling what you want are the same if it's your first run or hundredth.

I'd vote for a light at the end of the tunnel, but think the tunnel should still be pretty long.

As for the BtA part of your idea. Again I'm not in favor of that. DDO only has one plat sink, the AH, and it's already not very good. If you remove the high ticket items then prices for randomly generated but really good items will only continue to go up because there won't be anything else to spend it on. A decent Met of Pure Good weapon already has a gross price tag, but it'd only be worse if those that can currently afford it couldn't also buy Bloodstones or Rings of Spell Storing or even just the Dynastic Falcata which saw my twf ranger eat up the first few iron golems he came across.

[Oreg]

Horrible idea if limited to VIP or excludes any specific account type. Rework it with all included and I'll /not sign it then :p

Reason I would /not sign below if anyone cares:

IMO. no grind = less players running those quests and less people playing in general. There should be insanely low drop rates for valuable items (epic scrolls, Firestorm Greaves, Bloodstone, etc.,). It's what gets people to run those quests over and over and continue playing. The pursuit of loot is what drives this game. Sure, the social aspect keeps people involved and happy but at the end of the day people run those quests in the hopes of getting that piece of gear they lack.

[Cleanincubus]

/not signed

Turbine would lose money in the log run. A lot of people just aren't willing to shell out the $ to go VIP, or simply can't afford to go VIP. Those people would stop purchasing any affected adventure packs.

If you need (in reality it's a "want", not "need") an item that badly, you'll continue to grind for it. Otherwise you'll just keep playing the game, and be happy when something drops for you. You're asking for an Easy button, that would (in my opinion) greatly unbalance an already slightly unbalanced game. Where's the joy of feeling liek you actually achieved something, if things are guaranteed to drop? There is none.

I do agree that VIP players should be able to get exclusive items, but not from doing the same quests, that other people have payed real money for, can't get just as easily. Perhaps some items could be added to the DDO Store, for this purpose.

[patang01]

Interesting idea but it might backfire. Perhaps a good compromise would be 1 percentage chance better in each difficulty to pull a named item?

[Chette]

No. Many premium players spend way more money than VIPs. Spectral Gloves drop relatively often, sometimes you just get unlucky. The quest is such good experience too it's worth running 10 times on each character/life as you level.

If something like this were implemented it should be similar to the raid loot 20th completion mechanic, where the 20th time you finish a quest you are offered a choice of named items.

[Asketes]

I gave you neg rep for violating forum rules by slandering anyone who disagrees with you.

No point discussing any merit your idea might have when you start this way.

-1 for disagreeing about disagreeing

:D jk

<3

[THOTHdha]

I'm all for giving VIPs a leg up, such as being able to open on Hard and Elite right off the bat, but this is going way too far. A lot of people looked at the difference between VIP and Premium and decided to make a large investment in Premium content. This would be the equivalent to spitting in their face and laughing about how their money has already been spent, and there is no way they are getting anything for it.

[Don1966]

No. Many premium players spend way more money than VIPs. Spectral Gloves drop relatively often, sometimes you just get unlucky. The quest is such good experience too it's worth running 10 times on each character/life as you level.

If something like this were implemented it should be similar to the raid loot 20th completion mechanic, where the 20th time you finish a quest you are offered a choice of named items.

a lot of vips spend a lot of money on this game too. i started playing as f2p, got my toon to level 3 then decided to buy ddo points and purchase 32 point builds and vet status. a week or so after that i went vip and bought the yearly subscription. since then i've spent an additional $300 on turbine points and i haven't completed my first year of playing yet. so, thinking that vips don't spend as much or more money on this game than premiums isn't entirely correct.
i might be on board for 20 times if that is the only way this would happen but wouldn't be too happy about quests that drop 3 thing that i might want, that would mean 60 times to get every thing. more grind which to me isn't fun.


/not signed

Turbine would lose money in the log run. A lot of people just aren't willing to shell out the $ to go VIP, or simply can't afford to go VIP. Those people would stop purchasing any affected adventure packs.

If you need (in reality it's a "want", not "need") an item that badly, you'll continue to grind for it. Otherwise you'll just keep playing the game, and be happy when something drops for you. You're asking for an Easy button, that would (in my opinion) greatly unbalance an already slightly unbalanced game. Where's the joy of feeling liek you actually achieved something, if things are guaranteed to drop? There is none.

I do agree that VIP players should be able to get exclusive items, but not from doing the same quests, that other people have payed real money for, can't get just as easily. Perhaps some items could be added to the DDO Store, for this purpose.

since my idea doesn't involve moving the named loot from the chests to the end reward list why would premium players stop buying and running those quests? the original idea is to add the named loot to the end reward list after a set number of runs for vips. there is no feeling of joy when i get a named item i want after the 50th run, it's a feeling of relief. games are supposed to be fun, not leaving you worn out and tired of doing the same thing over and over again. being a vip i pay real money for the quests too and continue paying for them.



Horrible idea if limited to VIP or excludes any specific account type. Rework it with all included and I'll /not sign it then :p

Reason I would /not sign below if anyone cares:

IMO. no grind = less players running those quests and less people playing in general. There should be insanely low drop rates for valuable items (epic scrolls, Firestorm Greaves, Bloodstone, etc.,). It's what gets people to run those quests over and over and continue playing. The pursuit of loot is what drives this game. Sure, the social aspect keeps people involved and happy but at the end of the day people run those quests in the hopes of getting that piece of gear they lack.

the whole purpose of this is to lessen the grind and return the fun to the game. and how would this lower the drop rates for valuable items? the drop rates in the chests would remain the same. i continue playing because i help my guild members run quests, i have several toons i want to level up and because i plan on true rezing 1 or 2 of those toons. the purpose of loot isn't what drives the game, it's the purpose of having fun that drives a game.


I think 5-10 runs is way to low to guarantee specific items. WAY to low, and in fact I'm not sure I like the 20th completion raid lists either and I'm pretty sure they don't guarantee anything. Of course Raid loot is also BtC I believe so it doesn't hurt anyone. I think his name on here is Chai, and I agree with what seems to be his concerns with powercreep in the game. Basically if everyone (even just P2P) can get specific named loot before or just after the first ransack then the developers have to assume that everyone (even just P2P) has all the best gear. They then have to adjust mobs and bosses. To the point that AC becomes useless to any build not an AC build and bosses have tens to hundreds of thousands of hit points.

I agree something should be done about the grind but setting such a low limit would do more harm than good, and frankly the grind is the grind and a major facet of DDO. Instead I'd be more inclined to agree with upping the chance for a named item after each opening. Slightly upping the chance. At least that way you know eventually you'll get your Bloodstone or Spectral Gloves. As it is now your odds of pulling what you want are the same if it's your first run or hundredth.

I'd vote for a light at the end of the tunnel, but think the tunnel should still be pretty long.

As for the BtA part of your idea. Again I'm not in favor of that. DDO only has one plat sink, the AH, and it's already not very good. If you remove the high ticket items then prices for randomly generated but really good items will only continue to go up because there won't be anything else to spend it on. A decent Met of Pure Good weapon already has a gross price tag, but it'd only be worse if those that can currently afford it couldn't also buy Bloodstones or Rings of Spell Storing or even just the Dynastic Falcata which saw my twf ranger eat up the first few iron golems he came across.

bosses already have ten to hundreds of thousands of hit points. the main reason i want BtA is at some point i will need to move items over to a storage toon, can't do that with BtC items. prices in AH might actually start to go down since the named items would still drop in chests. remember, every piece of named item gear that is in AH is there because the person listing it already has one he is using and got another or just doesn't want the item, those things would still happen and happen at the current drop rates. bloodstones would not be effected as those do not drop in quests. the plat sink in AH could easily be fixed by changing the way fees are assessed. 30% of the starting bid or buy out is paid when the item is listed and not refunded, 30% of what the item sells for is assessed minus the initial fee. i think with that model we would see prices in AH actually come back down to reasonable levels. there are also other plat sinks in the game though they aren't huge ones, consumables in the form of pots, ammo and spell components. there are also airships and airship buffs which pull plat out of the game.

remember that in the end the f2p people aren't greatly affected by this other than they make less plat on AH from selling their surplus named items. this would encourage more people to go vip provided they can do so. remember, even in todays economy $10 a month isn't a huge sum for many. and since Turbine offered the $10 a month deal i think they are really wanting more of the f2p people to become vip. think about what would happen if every vip player dropped to premium status. it wouldn't be long before Turbine would have to start laying off people that develop the new content and hopefully fix bugs, and also scale back infrastructure.

to me, DDO is a game, games are supposed to be fun. grinding for gear over and over again isn't fun. ask yourself, when you ran a quest 100 times trying to get an item only to not see it drop again, was that fun? grinding for gear isn't making more people play, it's driving them away.

[Cyr]

/not signed

Tying loot or character power level to how you pay for the game or how much you pay for it is a bad idea. It creates a game that is all about how much cash you drop on it and not about how good you are at the game.

[BoolZ]

>snip<
bosses already have ten to hundreds of thousands of hit points. the main reason i want BtA is at some point i will need to move items over to a storage toon, can't do that with BtC items. >snip, did I do it right?<

>snap<
...there are also other plat sinks in the game though they aren't huge ones, consumables in the form of pots, ammo and spell components. there are also airships and airship buffs which pull plat out of the game.
>shoot I think I did it wrong<



I under stand bosses have on the plus side what would equate to a couple thousand hit die, and BAB's that are sickening. It's also my understanding it's a result of trying to balance the game against power players with 90+ AC, and an ability to deal insane amounts of damage per second. It's also from what I gathered possible through the over powered gear.

On the BtC vrs BtA point. I missed the part about chest items as end rewards. My own reading fail. I rather agree with the idea that if some named items that are unbound in chest made it to the end reward they should be BtA.

And I really don't think consumables, ammo, or spell components are anywhere near a plat sink past the desert. I mean a stack of haste potions will run what like 8400pp, and provide 50 minutes of effect. Hasted I could probally solo Offering of Blood 3-4 times before I'm out of potions and easily pull a profit versus resource cost. Huge profit if I pull a set of Spectral Gloves. Ammo's not even a thought for my manyshotting exploiter just because while I'm in House D for the broker the favor ammo guy's just up the way. There are only a handful of spell components that cost anything near expensive, and they're for spells you can't really cast until you can afford the cost, or are cheaper to cast off a scroll. Airship buffs and airships I'll admit a bit of ignorance on. I'm in a tiny little guild that doesn't group, and frankly I'm not sure others know they're in it too. We have a ship, but I didn't pay for it. Makes travel easier sometimes. I've paid for a couple of buffs, again not sure if anyone in the guild saw the strangers standing on the boat, but they wern't at a price that I see taking any substantial platinum out of the system.

That leaves only the AH, and I think it's clear we agree it's not all that great. I think charging the sellers up front would kill it though. The first think I sold on the AH was a Medium Eberron Dragon Shard for like 60K pp. I didn't have 20K pp to pay for a 30% listing fee. Instead I would have had to move it on the trade channel, would have probably pulled about the same final ~40K, but that would have left ~20K extra pp in the hands of the buyer. Something that I'm surprised doesn't happen more already. I mean if I could sell a +1 tome for 15K knowing that someone will buy it and the AH is going to take 5K leaving me with 10K. Why wouldn't I offer it for 12K, get the full amount, and save the buyer a bit?

Anyway, sorry to go off topic a bit. I understand, now, the BtA point of yours, but still think 5-7 runs is nowhere near enough grind to warrant the absolute power creep that would result.

And for the record I'm VIP, hit 3000 undead slayer in the desert long before pulling my Bloodstone, hit 3000 Gnoll slayer two months ago and still havn't found a set of Firestorm Greaves, and have Ransacked Offerings of Blood the last three weeks running without a sign of Spectral Gloves. Of course I'm going to hit 5000 slayer in the Orchard tommorrow, so maybe I just enjoy the grind. I gotta get Shroud flagged.

[Cleanincubus]

since my idea doesn't involve moving the named loot from the chests to the end reward list why would premium players stop buying and running those quests? the original idea is to add the named loot to the end reward list after a set number of runs for vips. there is no feeling of joy when i get a named item i want after the 50th run, it's a feeling of relief. games are supposed to be fun, not leaving you worn out and tired of doing the same thing over and over again. being a vip i pay real money for the quests too and continue paying for them.

I understand what you were saying, but you're still asking for guaranteed items. My point is that if you really want those items, you should have to grind for them just like everyone else. If an item isn't worth grinding for, then it's not an item worth having. Giving out rare items as a quest reward, makes those rare items no longer rare. It's like someone buying a lottery ticket every single week for a year, and saying they should get a better chance of winning the jackpot of every 5th or 10th drawings, than someone who only buys them occasionally. If a quest isn't fun anymore, then play another one.

[Dysmetria]

I don't think they can give any more perks to VIPs as all the former ones they encouraged to downgrade to premium and purchase outright what they had been renting would have a good reason to be upset.

[dredre9987]

You would just be encouraging people to go VIP and then grind out gear they want then drop back to premium....

[Aeolwind]

/not signed

Tying loot or character power level to how you pay for the game or how much you pay for it is a bad idea. It creates a game that is all about how much cash you drop on it and not about how good you are at the game.

It's kinda already there for casters. You can buy SP Pots off the store.

[TheKaige]

Agree with the idea that every so many runs, I'd say 20, you should be able to select any unqiue chest loot or quest loot from the quest, hate the idea that it should be limited to VIP. DDO is doing great b/c it's set around the fact that even a f2p can get as high as a VIP. Look at what a failure f2p EQ2 is and you'll see why Turbine's system works.

[Don1966]

I under stand bosses have on the plus side what would equate to a couple thousand hit die, and BAB's that are sickening. It's also my understanding it's a result of trying to balance the game against power players with 90+ AC, and an ability to deal insane amounts of damage per second. It's also from what I gathered possible through the over powered gear.

On the BtC vrs BtA point. I missed the part about chest items as end rewards. My own reading fail. I rather agree with the idea that if some named items that are unbound in chest made it to the end reward they should be BtA.

And I really don't think consumables, ammo, or spell components are anywhere near a plat sink past the desert. I mean a stack of haste potions will run what like 8400pp, and provide 50 minutes of effect. Hasted I could probally solo Offering of Blood 3-4 times before I'm out of potions and easily pull a profit versus resource cost. Huge profit if I pull a set of Spectral Gloves. Ammo's not even a thought for my manyshotting exploiter just because while I'm in House D for the broker the favor ammo guy's just up the way. There are only a handful of spell components that cost anything near expensive, and they're for spells you can't really cast until you can afford the cost, or are cheaper to cast off a scroll. Airship buffs and airships I'll admit a bit of ignorance on. I'm in a tiny little guild that doesn't group, and frankly I'm not sure others know they're in it too. We have a ship, but I didn't pay for it. Makes travel easier sometimes. I've paid for a couple of buffs, again not sure if anyone in the guild saw the strangers standing on the boat, but they wern't at a price that I see taking any substantial platinum out of the system.

That leaves only the AH, and I think it's clear we agree it's not all that great. I think charging the sellers up front would kill it though. The first think I sold on the AH was a Medium Eberron Dragon Shard for like 60K pp. I didn't have 20K pp to pay for a 30% listing fee. Instead I would have had to move it on the trade channel, would have probably pulled about the same final ~40K, but that would have left ~20K extra pp in the hands of the buyer. Something that I'm surprised doesn't happen more already. I mean if I could sell a +1 tome for 15K knowing that someone will buy it and the AH is going to take 5K leaving me with 10K. Why wouldn't I offer it for 12K, get the full amount, and save the buyer a bit?

Anyway, sorry to go off topic a bit. I understand, now, the BtA point of yours, but still think 5-7 runs is nowhere near enough grind to warrant the absolute power creep that would result.

And for the record I'm VIP, hit 3000 undead slayer in the desert long before pulling my Bloodstone, hit 3000 Gnoll slayer two months ago and still havn't found a set of Firestorm Greaves, and have Ransacked Offerings of Blood the last three weeks running without a sign of Spectral Gloves. Of course I'm going to hit 5000 slayer in the Orchard tommorrow, so maybe I just enjoy the grind. I gotta get Shroud flagged.

consumables are a plat sink through out the game just a very small one as you point out, airship buffs are too. i usually take care of the crew fees on my guilds airship, 4 crew plus the minor xp shrine comes out to about 15k plat a week. again, a small plat sink. the thing with my idea about AH fees being restructured, the 30% of the top is from the starting bid, so for your Medium Eberron, if you don't have 20k to have a starting bid of 60k, you drop your starting bid on it and hope that the final bid placed gets to what you want. if starting bids dropped to very low amounts we would start seeing items sell for what people are willing to pay for them. as it is now i see the same items listed over and over again for the exact same overly high prices.


I don't think they can give any more perks to VIPs as all the former ones they encouraged to downgrade to premium and purchase outright what they had been renting would have a good reason to be upset.

as it is right now i don't see a whole lot of perks for vips that really make me want to stay vip. being able to open on elite the first run, doesn't really appeal to me. 500 TP every month, that comes out to 6000 over a year for which i paid $120, right now you can get 6900 TP for $50. being able to run new content right away isn't a huge deal, i can wait a few days, i already waited a few month for the new content to make it to live.


Agree with the idea that every so many runs, I'd say 20, you should be able to select any unqiue chest loot or quest loot from the quest, hate the idea that it should be limited to VIP. DDO is doing great b/c it's set around the fact that even a f2p can get as high as a VIP. Look at what a failure f2p EQ2 is and you'll see why Turbine's system works.

well, i'm trying to come up with a reasonable reason to encourage people to either become or remain vip. with the recent sale on vip status, going from $15 a month to $10, Turbine has told us that they need more vip members. i'm thinking that f2p people buying TP every so often isn't generating enough income. if the f2p want to get in on this, set it so vip get it on the 10th run, f2p get it on the 20th run. 10 runs on the same quest with the same toon is a grind to me but i'd do it as long as i can get the items i want. and having to only do it 10 times versus 20 times would be enough incentive to keep me vip.

[bigolbear]

not signed

bad idea, and whats more unfair. just because some one is vip doesnt meant they should get access to the loot more easily. I loathe the idea of some one buying their way to victory. Theres a reason that the equipment so far in the store is not top end equipment, because it would break the game.

Store mana pots and res cakes are the only 'buy your way to victory' things that are available in the store, res cakes are unnnecessary and mana pots are aquireable in game without too much effort.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

what the heck are you talking about? / Ive seen some of your posts Lorien. Why do you deviate from the actual suggestions in your posts. If you want to go grip about something make YOUR Own thread. Just remember in language a negative and a negative dont make a positive. I found YOUR post to be the most negative in this thread.

So feel free to neg rep me. :p

But the OP starting off by saying anyone who disagrees with him is a plat farmer is not promoting meaningful discussion.

[Don1966]

So feel free to neg rep me. :p

But the OP starting off by saying anyone who disagrees with him is a plat farmer is not promoting meaningful discussion.

you misunderstand. few who would disagree with that idea would give a negative rep. most would state their objections and why. i feel only those that stand to lose, such as plat farmers, would give me neg rep for throwing this out there.

[Hailia]

and in fact I'm not sure I like the 20th completion raid lists either and I'm pretty sure they don't guarantee anything. Of course Raid loot is also BtC I believe so it doesn't hurt anyone.

He is talking about how TEDIOUS the quest becomes after soooooo many times doing the SAME thing over and over and over, again and again. When quests becomes like this ITS NOT fun anymore. Twenty completion in the same quests DOES get tedious and BORING. Remember THIS is a GAME not a word processor or spreadsheet that we may or may not do at work. We WANT Fun, Fun, Fun, and more Fun. FARMING and then FARMING again and again is NOT fun by any means

[AyumiAmakusa]

Don't like it. It seems highly unfair.

[Hailia]

Horrible idea if limited to VIP or excludes any specific account type. Rework it with all included and I'll /not sign it then :p

Reason I would /not sign below if anyone cares:

IMO. no grind = less players running those quests and less people playing in general. There should be insanely low drop rates for valuable items (epic scrolls, Firestorm Greaves, Bloodstone, etc.,). It's what gets people to run those quests over and over and continue playing. The pursuit of loot is what drives this game. Sure, the social aspect keeps people involved and happy but at the end of the day people run those quests in the hopes of getting that piece of gear they lack.

But remember the more grinding and farming the less and less fun it is. The pursuit of loot is what drives the player not the game. Fun and money is what drives the game. If the game was not fun players would stop playing. Or look for ways to spend more money to have more fun. Grinding and Farming no matter how you look at it DOES NOT drive fun and/or money. Thats what this thread is for. A GUARANTEE that after so many runs the PLAYER WiLL Get what they want and "drive" them to do it again, AT THE SAME TIME Turbine can make More money.

[Hailia]

/not signed

Turbine would lose money in the log run. A lot of people just aren't willing to shell out the $ to go VIP, or simply can't afford to go VIP. Those people would stop purchasing any affected adventure packs.

If you need (in reality it's a "want", not "need") an item that badly, you'll continue to grind for it. Otherwise you'll just keep playing the game, and be happy when something drops for you. You're asking for an Easy button, that would (in my opinion) greatly unbalance an already slightly unbalanced game. Where's the joy of feeling liek you actually achieved something, if things are guaranteed to drop? There is none.

I do agree that VIP players should be able to get exclusive items, but not from doing the same quests, that other people have payed real money for, can't get just as easily. Perhaps some items could be added to the DDO Store, for this purpose.

I disagree. Turbine would make more money. The key word in this Thread is INCOURAGE. Players "seeing" that IF they SAVE money and go VIP they ARE guaranteed a specific item.

Again remember Grinding in Not fun.

Easy? / Its not easy sitting there after waaaaay over 20 runs and still NOT get anything. And very discouraging and you feel like you didnt accomplish anything for the last 3-5 hours (as an example).

On the contrary, there is a great feeling of accomplishment after your 15th or 20th run Knowing that you WILL receive your greatly EARNED reward.

I do agree with your VIP exclusive store items. Ill pay for that now.

[Hailia]

If something like this were implemented it should be similar to the raid loot 20th completion mechanic, where the 20th time you finish a quest you are offered a choice of named items.

Exactly our point. Though 20 completions is somewhat "tiresome" or "tedious" Knowing that you WILL have a choice to choose a rare item as a Greatly EARNED reward Will feel like a great achievement has been accomplished.

[Hailia]

-1 for disagreeing about disagreeing

:D jk

<3

Amen. +1 to you.

[Hailia]

a lot of vips spend a lot of money on this game too. i started playing as f2p, got my toon to level 3 then decided to buy ddo points and purchase 32 point builds and vet status. a week or so after that i went vip and bought the yearly subscription. since then i've spent an additional $300 on turbine points and i haven't completed my first year of playing yet. so, thinking that vips don't spend as much or more money on this game than premiums isn't entirely correct.
i might be on board for 20 times if that is the only way this would happen but wouldn't be too happy about quests that drop 3 thing that i might want, that would mean 60 times to get every thing. more grind which to me isn't fun.



since my idea doesn't involve moving the named loot from the chests to the end reward list why would premium players stop buying and running those quests? the original idea is to add the named loot to the end reward list after a set number of runs for vips. there is no feeling of joy when i get a named item i want after the 50th run, it's a feeling of relief. games are supposed to be fun, not leaving you worn out and tired of doing the same thing over and over again. being a vip i pay real money for the quests too and continue paying for them.




the whole purpose of this is to lessen the grind and return the fun to the game. and how would this lower the drop rates for valuable items? the drop rates in the chests would remain the same. i continue playing because i help my guild members run quests, i have several toons i want to level up and because i plan on true rezing 1 or 2 of those toons. the purpose of loot isn't what drives the game, it's the purpose of having fun that drives a game.



bosses already have ten to hundreds of thousands of hit points. the main reason i want BtA is at some point i will need to move items over to a storage toon, can't do that with BtC items. prices in AH might actually start to go down since the named items would still drop in chests. remember, every piece of named item gear that is in AH is there because the person listing it already has one he is using and got another or just doesn't want the item, those things would still happen and happen at the current drop rates. bloodstones would not be effected as those do not drop in quests. the plat sink in AH could easily be fixed by changing the way fees are assessed. 30% of the starting bid or buy out is paid when the item is listed and not refunded, 30% of what the item sells for is assessed minus the initial fee. i think with that model we would see prices in AH actually come back down to reasonable levels. there are also other plat sinks in the game though they aren't huge ones, consumables in the form of pots, ammo and spell components. there are also airships and airship buffs which pull plat out of the game.

remember that in the end the f2p people aren't greatly affected by this other than they make less plat on AH from selling their surplus named items. this would encourage more people to go vip provided they can do so. remember, even in todays economy $10 a month isn't a huge sum for many. and since Turbine offered the $10 a month deal i think they are really wanting more of the f2p people to become vip. think about what would happen if every vip player dropped to premium status. it wouldn't be long before Turbine would have to start laying off people that develop the new content and hopefully fix bugs, and also scale back infrastructure.

to me, DDO is a game, games are supposed to be fun. grinding for gear over and over again isn't fun. ask yourself, when you ran a quest 100 times trying to get an item only to not see it drop again, was that fun? grinding for gear isn't making more people play, it's driving them away.

Couldnt have said it better myself. Fun, Fun, Fun, means more money for Turbine. Dont see anyone disputing that.

Too much grinding, Too much farming does NOT equal fun. No matter what your oppinion is.

[Hailia]

/not signed

Tying loot or character power level to how you pay for the game or how much you pay for it is a bad idea. It creates a game that is all about how much cash you drop on it and not about how good you are at the game.

Exactly. this is entertainment. How much do Americans pay for entertainment.......Billions! / Why not give that to Turbine to have the rares become reward items after so many completions. Turbine has spent a lot of man power and hours creating this game and maintaining it. Id give them $500 if I knew Id get something for it. lol.

Named items as reward items equals fun and accomplishment. Ive quit running quests because its NO fun anymore. More Fun = More money.

[Hailia]

I understand what you were saying, but you're still asking for guaranteed items. My point is that if you really want those items, you should have to grind for them just like everyone else. If an item isn't worth grinding for, then it's not an item worth having. Giving out rare items as a quest reward, makes those rare items no longer rare. It's like someone buying a lottery ticket every single week for a year, and saying they should get a better chance of winning the jackpot of every 5th or 10th drawings, than someone who only buys them occasionally. If a quest isn't fun anymore, then play another one.

Your missing the point here. This is NOT real life. Its a game. It SHOULd be fun. I havent heard ANYONE who doesnt like this idea say that "grinding is fun". Hmmmmmmmm??????

[BoolZ]

He is talking about how TEDIOUS the quest becomes after soooooo many times doing the SAME thing over and over and over, again and again. When quests becomes like this ITS NOT fun anymore. Twenty completion in the same quests DOES get tedious and BORING. Remember THIS is a GAME not a word processor or spreadsheet that we may or may not do at work. We WANT Fun, Fun, Fun, and more Fun. FARMING and then FARMING again and again is NOT fun by any means


It's also not an exercise in instant gratification. Listen I'll agree a light at the end of the tunnel would be huge. Just a glimmer that I'm getting closer to the prize. We can agree on that. But 5 or 7 runs, twenty runs without a raid timer, or even just a set amount of completions to ensure you get your named loot is bad for the game.

I'm not even talking about power creep, though monsters keeping up with items, and then new items surpassing old would be a tremendous blow to the long term survivability.

Instead I'm talking about the players. If a player is going to be bored after 5-7, upwards of 20, or more runs for a piece of loot that is rarely needed, needed, than they're going to get bored having that same piece of loot after a couple months. Worse case. Best case would be they don't get bored with their loot, but run through every bit of content without thought of new character builds or a deeper social aspect and then quit reguardless.

If the game becomes tedious so fast without the sought after gear imagine how bad it'd suck if you already had the gear. Not you personally, but just some random hypothetical player. Running any quest with a Beholder (my personal least favorite aspect of the game) for the 4th time to milk every bit of experience for their triple TR.

Now the OP mentioned something about looking for perk for VIPs. A way to push subscriptions. Which I agree with. VIPs should get more. But it should probably be more convience (faster city travel or extra storage) or status (better armor 'kits'/various body types).

[BoolZ]

Your missing the point here. This is NOT real life. Its a game. It SHOULd be fun. I havent heard ANYONE who doesnt like this idea say that "grinding is fun". Hmmmmmmmm??????


Grinding is fun.

Seriously. The first month or so I was running for Bloodstone was great (I'll admit it sucked at the end.) Have 10 minutes? Log in a run the desert. I loved the Mabar event that was all grind. Now I'm in the Orchard, have my Minos + ~50 extra taps. I'm loving it. Even practicing my 'twitching'.

[Cleanincubus]

Your missing the point here. This is NOT real life. Its a game. It SHOULd be fun. I havent heard ANYONE who doesnt like this idea say that "grinding is fun". Hmmmmmmmm??????
No, you're missing my point. If grinding for an item, isn't fun, then don't do it. Go find another quest, and forget about the item you wanted. Just because you're VIP, and another player is Premium, doesn't mean you deserve to get an item more than the Premium player.

If an idea like this actually happened, a lot of people would in fact go VIP. The problem is, they would go VIP until they got the guaranteed items, and then drop right back down the Premium. So that'd be like 3-4 months of playing (some would do it a lot faster and some would do it a lot slower). So factoring in the price that VIP is right now ($9.99 round up to an even $10, for discussion sake) and the normal $14.99 ($15), that'd only make Turbine $30-60. Not a big profit, when people could, and do, just spend that much and purchase points to get specific adventure packs.

Also, what person in their right mind would would go VIP for a guaranteed rare item quest reward, if they already purchased the adventure packs that were affected? They'd be better off giving Turbine more money, by purchasing a new pack to play, when the grinding got to be too boring.

[xxHazexx]

I disagree, this is an mmorpg nothing wrong with grinding just like everyone else. Besides once you finally get what you were grinding for it makes it that much better, also makes better players in my honest opinion.

[Hailia]

Grinding is fun.

Seriously. The first month or so I was running for Bloodstone was great (I'll admit it sucked at the end.) Have 10 minutes? Log in a run the desert. I loved the Mabar event that was all grind. Now I'm in the Orchard, have my Minos + ~50 extra taps. I'm loving it. Even practicing my 'twitching'.

Simply put Grinding is not fun.

[Hailia]

No, you're missing my point. If grinding for an item, isn't fun, then don't do it. Go find another quest, and forget about the item you wanted. Just because you're VIP, and another player is Premium, doesn't mean you deserve to get an item more than the Premium player.

If an idea like this actually happened, a lot of people would in fact go VIP. The problem is, they would go VIP until they got the guaranteed items, and then drop right back down the Premium. So that'd be like 3-4 months of playing (some would do it a lot faster and some would do it a lot slower). So factoring in the price that VIP is right now ($9.99 round up to an even $10, for discussion sake) and the normal $14.99 ($15), that'd only make Turbine $30-60. Not a big profit, when people could, and do, just spend that much and purchase points to get specific adventure packs.

Also, what person in their right mind would would go VIP for a guaranteed rare item quest reward, if they already purchased the adventure packs that were affected? They'd be better off giving Turbine more money, by purchasing a new pack to play, when the grinding got to be too boring.

Exactly my point. I dont go grinding for items because its not fun. I go find some other quest and actually I do forget about the item I wanted to get. The point is that there needs to be a waaaay better reward system for those that do go grinding the same quest over and over and over again. If you want to include premium players Im all for it. The point is that after 'x' amount of runs in the same quest there should be a rare item as an end reward. Enough said. Just as favor needs to be reworked so do the rare items.

[Ungood]

Well, this topic again.

Well, these threads have taught me one thing; that to the majority of the players, the drop rate of desired items is broken, and something needs to be done to lessen the grind.

[Hailia]

Well, this topic again.

Well, these threads have taught me one thing; that to the majority of the players, the drop rate of desired items is broken, and something needs to be done to lessen the grind.

Thank You.

[Therilith]

Pay-for-loot?

/absolutely not

[Wren666]

I gave you neg rep for violating forum rules by slandering anyone who disagrees with you.

No point discussing any merit your idea might have when you start this way.I gave you neg rep for violating forum rules by neg repping anyone who disagrees with you.

No point arguing with someone who's been squatting on a forum for 5 years making over sixteen thousand posts in that time.

[Zectarash]

I can't believe nobody thought of this.

Why not take the base drop rate for everyone, and increase it with every run.

EXAMPLE: A Fighter is going for the Super Shield of Whatever, with a base 1% drop rate. He does the quest over again, and is a 2% drop rate if he's ftp, 2.05% if he's Premium, or 2.1% if he's VIP. If he's VIP then it's 3.2% next run, etc.. After 20 runs, it's about 22-23% chance of a drop, and he GETS HIS SUPER SHIELD! Now the chance goes back down to 1% and starts over. Of course, it could increase more, like 2% more every time or whatever, but have a TINY bonus for p2p people. Problem solved, unless someone has an objection.

I'm willing to be disagreed with.

[Wren666]

I can't believe nobody thought of this.

Why not take the base drop rate for everyone, and increase it with every run.

EXAMPLE: A Fighter is going for the Super Shield of Whatever, with a base 1% drop rate. He does the quest over again, and is a 2% drop rate if he's ftp, 2.05% if he's Premium, or 2.1% if he's VIP. If he's VIP then it's 3.2% next run, etc.. After 20 runs, it's about 22-23% chance of a drop, and he GETS HIS SUPER SHIELD! Now the chance goes back down to 1% and starts over. Of course, it could increase more, like 2% more every time or whatever, but have a TINY bonus for p2p people. Problem solved, unless someone has an objection.

I'm willing to be disagreed with.+1

Even with a 0.1% increase per run, that would be a surprisingly much better system than the current all-on-the-first-run-or-nothing-for-100-runs piece of chipmunk funk.

[Zectarash]

Another thing I pointed out is that I think Premium players should also get a tiny bonus, definitely less than VIPs. Also, the chance and increase in chance will of course be different from item to item.

[SardaofChaos]

I disagree. Turbine would make more money. The key word in this Thread is INCOURAGE. Players "seeing" that IF they SAVE money and go VIP they ARE guaranteed a specific item.

I object to your use of the phrase 'save money' in the same sentence as 'go vip'.


I can't believe nobody thought of this.

Why not take the base drop rate for everyone, and increase it with every run.

EXAMPLE: A Fighter is going for the Super Shield of Whatever, with a base 1% drop rate. He does the quest over again, and is a 2% drop rate if he's ftp, 2.05% if he's Premium, or 2.1% if he's VIP. If he's VIP then it's 3.2% next run, etc.. After 20 runs, it's about 22-23% chance of a drop, and he GETS HIS SUPER SHIELD! Now the chance goes back down to 1% and starts over. Of course, it could increase more, like 2% more every time or whatever, but have a TINY bonus for p2p people. Problem solved, unless someone has an objection.

I'm willing to be disagreed with.
I like this idea, nobody can argue this would make it overpowered, vips get more of a boost than f2p which is the entire definition of vip, and most importantly it's something, which is better than nothing.

[Zectarash]

The only questions I can think of about my idea are:

Should all named items be on the same increase, and therefore drop if you get one, or put them on separate chances?

For that matter, what would happen if the item you aren't looking for is in the chest, the first part is the case, and you don't pull it? Would it reset?

Should the chance be per chest or per run? What if you only open 1 chest, and there's another one with the same named item?

[Hailia]

mmobay.com

no need for me to blabber uselessly now.

Now I have my Bloodstone. LOL.

[Hailia]

I can't believe nobody thought of this.

Why not take the base drop rate for everyone, and increase it with every run.

EXAMPLE: A Fighter is going for the Super Shield of Whatever, with a base 1% drop rate. He does the quest over again, and is a 2% drop rate if he's ftp, 2.05% if he's Premium, or 2.1% if he's VIP. If he's VIP then it's 3.2% next run, etc.. After 20 runs, it's about 22-23% chance of a drop, and he GETS HIS SUPER SHIELD! Now the chance goes back down to 1% and starts over. Of course, it could increase more, like 2% more every time or whatever, but have a TINY bonus for p2p people. Problem solved, unless someone has an objection.


I'm willing to be disagreed with.

I love your idea. It's solid!