Help with Undead

[GBantaR]

OK, I feel like I've been on here before asking this but, I forget. My Rogue's got Str 20 atm, and switches back and forth between holy/pure good khopeshes and two pure good light maces. She's Str-based, not finesse.

I STILL have a lot of trouble in Delera's. On my main Rogue on Orien, I'm already level 14, have disruptors and Haste boost and I just rip through Undead in the sands, etc. But it's been so long since he did Delera's I forget how I survived. What the heck can I improve?

Edit: The main problem I have seems to be hitting. TONS of misses. Other than +3 weapons (which I have) Any other recommendations? I'm level 7.

[jkm]

try moving to sword and board. you'll take minimal damage and be able to hit. you are taking a ton of to hit penalties dual wielding maces (-2 for dual wielding, -2 for dual wielding heavy weapons).

so 5 BAB + 5 str + 5 miscellaneous buffs - 4 = +11 to hit. they typically have around a 19-20 ac in there if i'm not mistaken.

[frznvimes]

if you're thinking about the skeleton archers, they're just a pain to hit. they do such low damage though that you can just toss on a spearblock item and basically ignore them.
You could grab a bard (human or hireling).
umd heroism, bull's strength, divine favor, bless, prayer.
goggles of insight.
weapon of destruction
stop dual wielding when you're having trouble hitting at low levels.

[QuantumFX]

Turn off Power Attack.

Use a light weapon in your offhand if you don’t have the oversized TWF feat.

Wear your Anger’s Wrath set.

Heroism Potions/clickies.

[GBantaR]

All awesome advice. It helps. Thank guys!

[silvertrit]

lvl 14 struggling on delareas? Why you still doing Del??



Anyways dont forget your lucky trips/sunder attempts that may work now and then.

Also a ...well actually I really cant think of anything else.. except maybe clickies that have halt undead on them..


Or if your umd is high enough halt undead scrolls? For Del's atlest

[blitzschlag]

bulls strength pots/wand (if you don't happen to have +4 rr str item or the delera gloves yet)..

hero pots
haste pots (adds +1 to attack aswell)

generally to avoid bigger trouble its helpful to have a full sortiment of pots for delera if you solo or lowman it.

barkskin +3 and sof +3 pots should get you in ac regions where there are merely grazing hits that scrape of your hp (you should have a +4 darkleaf/mithral breastplate with lvl 7).

[silvertrit]

bulls strength pots/wand (if you don't happen to have +4 rr str item or the delera gloves yet)..

hero pots
haste pots (adds +1 to attack aswell)

generally to avoid bigger trouble its helpful to have a full sortiment of pots for delera if you solo or lowman it.

barkskin +3 and sof +3 pots should get you in ac regions where there are merely grazing hits that scrape of your hp (you should have a +4 darkleaf/mithral breastplate with lvl 7).



would rage pots stack with hero/str?

[blitzschlag]

would rage pots stack with hero/str?

yes they do. but they do lower ac by 2 too. but generally its worth using em ;)

[silvertrit]

Well **** while we are doing all t his....


What is your umd level, am hatching up a long list of bad things that can go good :D

[blitzschlag]

Well **** while we are doing all t his....


What is your umd level, am hatching up a long list of bad things that can go good :D

btw, the op is talking about his lvl 7 rogue that has problems in delera. the lvl 14 mentioned in the op is just another toon of him ;)

so with lvl 7 his umd won't be that famous to do anything remotely useful with it ;)

[EatSmart]

If you dont have spring attack you're getting a penalty to hit for attacking while you are on the move too. For the more bouncy undead I found cornering them or pinning them against a wall reduced the amount I had to move around when fighting them.

[XL_Jockey]

Why not just group? I took my HOrc Acrobat through the Delera's chain on Normal and Hard at 6 and 7 and did part of the chain on Elite (got lvl 8 in the process). With sneak attack bonuses make sure you're never the first one in and you should be getting another +2 from enhancements. Don't forget to activate your Rogue haste boost when there are a lot of enemies around.

[ToKu]

Isnt Delera's where Ghost Touched really starts helping alot as well? Im always a caster so cannot say for certain.

As to the archers and the heavily armored and shield weilding skeles, yeah they are a pain to hit and dont take big chunks of damage. Grab a arcane for WoFire for them.

[GBantaR]

Why not just group? I took my HOrc Acrobat through the Delera's chain on Normal and Hard at 6 and 7 and did part of the chain on Elite (got lvl 8 in the process). With sneak attack bonuses make sure you're never the first one in and you should be getting another +2 from enhancements. Don't forget to activate your Rogue haste boost when there are a lot of enemies around.

Oh, I've BEEN grouping, believe me. But I HATE being "just a trapsmith" which is what's been happening when I run it. I can't touch the skeletons, and every time I tried they would turn around and gang-bang me. So I was relegated to skulking around the back of the party, preferably invisible, and popping out only when there was a trap. As opposed to, say, Gwylan's where I would just demolish everything in my way AND get all the traps on Elite. :)

Haste boosts are lovely. Haste boosts and Haste pots together make me a happy panda.

(Note BTW: Sneak Attack bonuses don't work against Undead).

[XL_Jockey]

Ah, sorry, I still thought you got the bonuses to hit when flanking, just not the damage.

I've been swapping between a Ghost Touch weapon and a Holy weapon, but I think those are less helpful than the fact I'm at a standing 30 STR, so that's probably the difference. I couldn't hit Delera's Ghost at all though, and trying to stay alive while she chased me was interesting :D

I have a monk splash and stay in Wind, so if I can't hit, I'll swap to Fire. If I still can't hit, I'll go back to Wind and take off PA. If I still can't hit I'll keep PA off and go back to Fire stance. If I still can't hit then I smash breakables :)

Also, even though I max my skills, I just don't have the equipment to do traps, so it sounds like we have opposite problems. When I see I'm the only Rogue in the group, I'll let the leader know that I'm still searching for useful equipment to do traps, but that I'll bet I still lead the kill counts. It's worked so far.

[Ciaran]

As has already been said, every to-hit bonus you can possibly muster at that level will help you. Heroism, Anger's Wrath set, Bull's Strength potions if you don't have a +4 STR item already, bard buffs (hireling or PC), flanking where possible. Undead bane if you can find it, but that won't break ghostly skelly DR alone.

Instead of DWing, go S&B. Your DPS will be technically lower, but if you are having problem hitting TWFing, then your DPS is already lower. ;) At least with S&B you'll have an increased to hit.

Lastly, if you can wield a two-hander w/o penalty and have a good + and is holy/pg, try that.

[Ookami007]

1) Undead bane weapons will give additional bonuses to hit and damage, turning your +3 weapons into +5 or more.

2) Turn off power attack. All the damage bonus in the world doesn't matter if you don't hit.

3) Try heavy mace/light mace for extra +2 to hit unless you already have OTWF.

4) Buff up as much as possible - Heroism pots and rage pots are available at House J and at House K guild vendor, as well as wands for curing and buffs (Blur, Bull's Str, etc)

5) Consider Precision. It halves damage, but gives +4 to hit AND allows you to bypass 25% fort. This allows you to crit undead.... sadly, no sneak attack tho - which is silly.

6) Guild ships buffs will give you a +4 to hit or more (+1 profane, +2 training dummy, +2 STR)... if you don't have them, don't be shy about asking for a ship invite.

7) Hirelings - bringing a hireling to buff is helpful for those things you can't get wands or pots.

8) Don't expect to be super effective against one of the creatures we're weakest against. Things that can't be sneak attacked are our weak point. Sadly, we'll never be as effective as some other classes against them.

[Darconeious]

Oh, I've BEEN grouping, believe me. But I HATE being "just a trapsmith" which is what's been happening when I run it. I can't touch the skeletons, and every time I tried they would turn around and gang-bang me. So I was relegated to skulking around the back of the party, preferably invisible, and popping out only when there was a trap. As opposed to, say, Gwylan's where I would just demolish everything in my way AND get all the traps on Elite. :)

Haste boosts are lovely. Haste boosts and Haste pots together make me a happy panda.

(Note BTW: Sneak Attack bonuses don't work against Undead). I had trouble in there to secret ingreedient well not so secret grab you 2 flaming burst maces 1 light for your off hand if needed turn off PA go beat the snot out of them . BTW holy don't do nothing to ghostly skellys and ghost touch does very little. Trust me here I did it with +1 weaps Hope this helps

[LordRavnos]

I had trouble in there to secret ingreedient well not so secret grab you 2 flaming burst maces 1 light for your off hand if needed turn off PA go beat the snot out of them . BTW holy don't do nothing to ghostly skellys and ghost touch does very little. Trust me here I did it with +1 weaps Hope this helps


You do realize holy and pure good pass there Damage reduction, therefor giving you more damage then a +1 weapon alone right? Did a Deleras last night where my SS bard lead the kill count due to having a +1 holy rapier of pure good. Yes even with a piercing weapon I was out damaging and out killing the 2 fighters 1 barb and 1 ranger, simply due to overcoming DR.

But to the OP, yeah take off your off hand for a bit, my barb has 14 str buffed and I forgot to use my songs a few times and I was able to hit decently, so you should outdo my bard by far

[Darconeious]

OK, I feel like I've been on here before asking this but, I forget. My Rogue's got Str 20 atm, and switches back and forth between holy/pure good khopeshes and two pure good light maces. She's Str-based, not finesse.

I STILL have a lot of trouble in Delera's. On my main Rogue on Orien, I'm already level 14, have disruptors and Haste boost and I just rip through Undead in the sands, etc. But it's been so long since he did Delera's I forget how I survived. What the heck can I improve?

Edit: The main problem I have seems to be hitting. TONS of misses. Other than +3 weapons (which I have) Any other recommendations? I'm level 7.To lord rav

If you notice the op original statement here" I have been using2 holy/PG khopesh switching back and forth with 2 maces of PG and still missing. There is no doubt that there are many weapons in the game that will get the job done! But I'll stand by what I said preveously ! Get you 2 flaming burst maces 1 lite for your off hand if needed , and go beat the snot out of them skellys especially the ghostly one which I'm sure this is what your having the most trouble with. Perriod. This is my recommendation to the op.

[Malithar45]

If you notice the op original statement here" I have been using2 holy/PG khopesh switching back and forth with 2 maces of PG and still missing. There is no doubt that there are many weapons in the game that will get the job done! But I'll stand by what I said preveously ! Get you 2 flaming burst maces 1 lite for your off hand if needed , and go beat the snot out of them skellys especially the ghostly one which I'm sure this is what your having the most trouble with. Perriod. This is my recommendation to the op.

Those specific skellies aren't fresh in my mind, but Flaming Burst maces won't break their DR. Your suggestion doesn't even address his question about hitting, which many of the suggestions above have already done so. As far as damage, all you'll need is good and bludgeon. Fire and bludgeon will continue to do nothing except for damage from the fire proc and the burst effect, on a terrible threat range weapon. Enjoy "beating the snot out of them" with 1d6 and 5% 1d10. Feels like you're trying to give him advice to bring him down to a playing level below where he's already at.

[GBantaR]

Thanks everyone I've incorporated almost all of these suggestions and it's been going great. I also realized one thing which is that on Elite, Part 2 and 4 are level 9 and I'm level 7, so...

Playing them at level with all of the above buffs I absolutely DESTROYED everything. Yay me!!

Edit: Oh, and the Mechanic rogue who joined my group left in a huff when in addition to matching the Fighters and Barb's DPS, I could also find and disable traps better than he could. Goggles are everything, my friend. Double Yay Me!!!

[Ssmooth]

Sunblades are a rogues best friend in delera's.

Find em. Use em.

[Darconeious]

I would like to first apologize to the op for giving bad advise 2nd would like to apologize to the other posters giving advise in this thread . I just went in delaras with the beaters I used and being short on plat at the time they're not great weaps , furthermore in my forgetfulness holy does work, not shure what I was thinking there, it was incorprorel that didn't work on the ghostlys , and although not a great combo set for delaras I did use a +1 holy burst stunned heavy mace and a flaming burst stunner lite mace of which the lite mace did 1-6 less than the heavy mace I used , however the lite FB mace did do hardly any damage at all on the ghoastlys . I hope all can forgive and it would be best for me to get info not give . Again I apologize !!

[Ciaran]

I would like to first apologize to the op for giving bad advise 2nd would like to apologize to the other posters giving advise in this thread . I just went in delaras with the beaters I used and being short on plat at the time they're not great weaps , furthermore in my forgetfulness holy does work, not shure what I was thinking there, it was incorprorel that didn't work on the ghostlys , and although not a great combo set for delaras I did use a +1 holy burst stunned heavy mace and a flaming burst stunner lite mace of which the lite mace did 1-6 less than the heavy mace I used , however the lite FB mace did do hardly any damage at all on the ghoastlys . I hope all can forgive and it would be best for me to get info not give . Again I apologize !!

Admitting one is wrong with humility goes a long way (most of the time). It's all good hombre!


As far as damage, all you'll need is good and bludgeon.

No, all you need is good aligned for the ghostly skeletons. However for a general purpose Delera's beater, good and bludgeon is great to go with.

[Razcar]

5) Consider Precision. It halves damage, but gives +4 to hit AND allows you to bypass 25% fort. This allows you to crit undead.... sadly, no sneak attack tho - which is silly.
No-one should ever take Precision. It's even a larger waste of a feat then Snake Blood or Power Critical, since using it actually makes your character worse. And all the added improvement of subtracting 25% target Fort did was move it from Worthless to worthless. Like if they would "improve" Snake Blood by giving it a +4 to Poison saves.

But by following all your other sound advice in the other points you made the OP should have no problems hitting.