Is selling raid loot you rolled on cool?

[Forlan]

I'd say no what do you think?

[bryanmeerkat]

I'd say no what do you think?

What raid loot are we talking about ?

Unbound raid loot ? why is this even up for a roll ?

bound raid loot that your gonna vendor for a pittance ? yeah way uncool

[Franke]

This should be fun *takes a seat and grabs popcorn*

[blitzschlag]

generally no

if, however, all rollers rolled for it just to auction it in the raid (which is a paradoxon if you ask me) then it would be ok.

if noone wants it and the looter does not wanna sell it at the vendor him/herself than its fine to roll and vendor it...

[bryanmeerkat]

generally no

if, however, all rollers rolled for it just to auction it in the raid (which is a paradoxon if you ask me) then it would be ok.




Which would make me wonder why it was up for a roll in the first place .

[Forlan]

i'd assume any item up for roll would be bound. since u'd loot and sell otherwise or give to one of ur noobs ;)

[blitzschlag]

Which would make me wonder why it was up for a roll in the first place .

thats why i said its a paradoxon as it would never happen...

[BoBo2020]

I believe this question is related to another Sarlona thread.

Apparently someone rolled on a Sword of Shadows, won the roll and was passed the SoS. He then proceeded to sell or auction it off from the chest instead of looting it.

In answer to that question - this behavior is completely unacceptable and the person who sold the loot from the chest after winning it in a roll should be blacklisted.

[TheSavage]

I believe this question is related to another Sarlona thread.

Apparently someone rolled on a Sword of Shadows, won the roll and was passed the SoS. He then proceeded to sell or auction it off from the chest instead of looting it.

In answer to that question - this behavior is completely unacceptable and the person who sold the loot from the chest after winning it in a roll should be blacklisted.

Seconded. Only roll on something if you're going to use it. (This also goes for people who roll on something to pass to a friend, basically giving the other person 2 rolls...)

[Maldavenous]

In answer to that question - this behavior is completely unacceptable and the person who sold the loot from the chest after winning it in a roll should be blacklisted.

If you won it in a roll you better be looting it. We have certain practices with raid loot for a reason. There's a slippery slope of what happens when people start to accept this type of thing.

[Uska]

If I find someone is rollilng on something I put up for rolls just to sell it then I ignore any and all rolls the make from then on even if they want the item for real as I could vendor an item and use the cash just as much as they could

[Samiusbot]

On one hand.
It is your loot once you win a roll. So from that point of view sure okay. Your loot, Your call.

On the other hand,
If I put up a item for roll and then the winner began an auction..... That person would make my warning list with a note excluding him/her from rolling on any of my raid loot again. My loot, My call.

And I would not have a problem with how other players handle a person with this reputation. Their group/loot. Their call.


On the third hand,
I know that when I put an item up for roll I hope the winner will put it to good use. A quick auction is a kind of slap in the face of people that are willing to help out others.

[Illiain]

If I find someone is rollilng on something I put up for rolls just to sell it then I ignore any and all rolls the make from then on even if they want the item for real as I could vendor an item and use the cash just as much as they could

Does this count for the chain shirt and breastplate from HoX too? I thought they were BtC vendor trash.

[Elixxer]

This should be fun *takes a seat and grabs popcorn*

share.

[Thelmallen]

I believe this question is related to another Sarlona thread.

Apparently someone rolled on a Sword of Shadows, won the roll and was passed the SoS. He then proceeded to sell or auction it off from the chest instead of looting it.

In answer to that question - this behavior is completely unacceptable and the person who sold the loot from the chest after winning it in a roll should be blacklisted.

I'm firmly in the 'your loot is your loot' camp but the situation described above is really bush-league. Had I been in the group I would have asked for the offending party to list all of their alts so I could put them on my 'friends' list and delicately explained to them that they had just committed a grandiose act of jacka$$ery.

[NeutronStar]

I believe this question is related to another Sarlona thread.

Apparently someone rolled on a Sword of Shadows, won the roll and was passed the SoS. He then proceeded to sell or auction it off from the chest instead of looting it.

In answer to that question - this behavior is completely unacceptable and the person who sold the loot from the chest after winning it in a roll should be blacklisted.

1000% Agreed

[Chai]

In answer to that question - this behavior is completely unacceptable and the person who sold the loot from the chest after winning it in a roll should be blacklisted.

Oh, they were. Its all over the channels. I saw them in a group with another wonderful individual on Sarlona who two boxes the same two TRs, always piking one of them, who has pulled this kind of stuff in the past, along with Shroud griefing and other shenanigans. Birds of a feather....

[TFPAQ]

[QUOTE=Samiusbot;3490874]On one hand.
It is your loot once you win a roll. So from that point of view sure okay. Your loot, Your call.

On the other hand,
If I put up a item for roll and then the winner began an auction..... That person would make my warning list with a note excluding him/her from rolling on any of my raid loot again. My loot, My call.

And I would not have a problem with how other players handle a person with this reputation. Their group/loot. Their call.


On the third hand,
I know that when I put an item up for roll I hope the winner will put it to good use. A quick auction is a kind of slap in the face of people that are willing to help out others. [QUOTE]

[rexservorum]

Here's a minor variation on this question... is it acceptable to sell raid chest loot that you didn't roll on?

Suppose you're running VoN on your caster cleric or something and Sword of Shadow appears in the chest with your name on it. You have no use for it, but instead of putting it up for a roll, you decide to auction it off to the highest bidder.

Always seemed a little seedy to me considering that a roll is the convention, but I guess I would consider it "acceptable" due to that whole freedom thing. Not the kind of action that's going to make you any friends, but not one you'd be squelched over either.

If you rolled on it though, you'd better be intending to use it. If you turn around and sell it, you basically just misled everyone.

[stille_nacht]

To me there is no conflicting opinion here.

If you pull it from the chest, even if it is bound it would have been "yours", in my view, it is OK to auction off the loot, after all, you pulled the loot, you ran the quest x times, you dont even know these other people. This view of mine might seem strange to some people, but i played other mmos where raid loot isnt always bound, and you would always pull it/sell it, so it seems fine to me.

However, if someone else pulled it, it is completely not ok to roll on it and then auction it off, because it would not have been "yours". Essentially, you are stealing someone else's loot so you can sell it. It is only ok to roll if you are going to use it, NOT if you want to sell it, if you do, you should give all the money you got for it to the original puller (which might make it ok, but that's never going to happen)

[Thelmallen]

Here's a minor variation on this question... is it acceptable to sell raid chest loot that you didn't roll on?

Suppose you're running VoN on your caster cleric or something and Sword of Shadow appears in the chest with your name on it. You have no use for it, but instead of putting it up for a roll, you decide to auction it off to the highest bidder.

Always seemed a little seedy to me considering that a roll is the convention, but I guess I would consider it "acceptable" due to that whole freedom thing. Not the kind of action that's going to make you any friends, but not one you'd be squelched over either.

If you rolled on it though, you'd better be intending to use it. If you turn around and sell it, you basically just misled everyone.

I agree that the situation you describe is a bit 'seedy' but I wouldn't give anyone a hard time about it, just roll my eyes and chuckle. If you roll on something in a chest, I think most of the well-mannered people in the game would agree that you should be intending to use it, not to sell it to someone who had the misfortune to roll lower than you.

[mudfud]

IF you state you are putting an item up for roll, you have no right to worry about what the winner does with it.
Instead take the few extra second and ASK the party who NEEDS said item. Then, give to 1 of them whom you think will use it, love it, and cherish it.

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

I believe this question is related to another Sarlona thread.

Apparently someone rolled on a Sword of Shadows, won the roll and was passed the SoS. He then proceeded to sell or auction it off from the chest instead of looting it.

In answer to that question - this behavior is completely unacceptable and the person who sold the loot from the chest after winning it in a roll should be blacklisted.

I am all for loot based on need not greed. I regularly give up raid loot to others (friends, guildees, pugs) that I do not personally need. I have given away 2 dreamsplitters in the past week that yes I could have passed to lesser played alts that don't have, but I really would not use that much, and I knew others in the group would use more frequently. In turn, I have been given raid loot that I needed. Just recently I received the last item I needed for my epic goggles for my bard from a pugger who i I was later told had asked for an offer on them in party, although I did not hear this so who knows. Regardless said pugger did put up the item for roll which I won. Thankfully I have never seen someone turn around and auction off what I have passed to them. If so, they would indeed make my blacklist.

That being said, I do notice certain players, especially that are clearly from other cultural groups (not American), who it seems to regularly occur that there is selling of raid loot. I do not see them selling of stuff they won rolls on, just selling loot that the game assigned to them when looting chests. Apparently this is acceptable for them in their gaming culture/norms. So I do not get judgmental or offended, I just finish out and say thanks for the group. I do not personally agree with it, and won't participate in it, but clearly others do, as there never seems to be a lack of persons coughing up items/plat for these trades. In those cases I do not take names, as I see a difference between a cultural norm different than mine, vs. a person that's just greedy and doesn't think conventions/ values apply to them. (who is of the same general gaming culture as I am)

[mws2970]

I'd say no what do you think?

In my opinion, no. It is not ok.

[Beethoven]

Let me rephrase that question:

Is it cool to make profit out of someone else's good will?

No; in my book it is not. I (or whoever pulled it) would want to sell/auction it, I/they could have. To me this is akin to sticking your hand in a public donation box. People put money/donations in there to go to those who need it.

Way I see it: something drops in a person's name. His/her loot, his/her call. Now, (s)he states (s)he wants the loot to go to someone who will actually use it - and if there are several who would, for them to roll on it. Rolling then with the sole intention to turn it into plat is indeed not honoring the loot-pullers wishes.

Seriously, no different than saying: my loot, my call. Your loot, also my call. You act this way and you can be sure I will no longer honor any future rolls on anything I pull. You didn't honor what I wanted to happen with my loot either, right?



Unbound raid loot ? why is this even up for a roll ?

Uhm, because someone is a nice fellow? I have put up unbound loot for a roll if it was something I had no real need for, knew other people in the group were looking for it and if I had fun/felt like the rest of the group are solid kind of fellows.

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't feel there is any obligation to give unbound loot or that not putting it up for roll makes anyone a bad guy. Your loot, your call. However, I am also not faulting someone if they decide to be charitable and donate it to the needy.

[brian14]

Does this count for the chain shirt and breastplate from HoX too? I thought they were BtC vendor trash.
If you find in a chest something THAT useless, which you know nobody will actually wear (and is not BtA, so can't pass to alts), then don't put it up for a roll at all. Just sell it yourself.

Other than that, yes, I think rolling for a stuff you can't personally use is uncool.

[SEMPER]

your loot - pull it do what you want with it

Now loot your rolling on this is what I usually go by :

you roll on it and win - you better be pulling it out of the chest

you roll on it and win and then give it to someone else that loss the roll : Blacklist

you roll on it and try to sell it : Blacklist

pretty easy IMHO

[LordPiglet]

IF you state you are putting an item up for roll, you have no right to worry about what the winner does with it.
Instead take the few extra second and ASK the party who NEEDS said item. Then, give to 1 of them whom you think will use it, love it, and cherish it.

I disagree with the first part. When you're putting it up for roll, you're donating it and it's with an applie understanding that the person who wins will be using the item (not selling it). You could have simply sold it if that was your wish.

I personally don't like putting caveats when I put something up for roll. I don't run with people I feel are shady if I can help it. If I do see someone questionable, then I might put up a caveat, or simply ignore their roll.

[Thrudh]

Instead take the few extra second and ASK the party who NEEDS said item.

That's what "putting it up for a roll" means. "Anyone who NEEDS this item, roll for it"

[Thrudh]

I am all for loot based on need not greed. I regularly give up raid loot to others (friends, guildees, pugs) that I do not personally need. I have given away 2 dreamsplitters in the past week that yes I could have passed to lesser played alts that don't have, but I really would not use that much, and I knew others in the group would use more frequently. In turn, I have been given raid loot that I needed. Just recently I received the last item I needed for my epic goggles for my bard from a pugger who i I was later told had asked for an offer on them in party, although I did not hear this so who knows. Regardless said pugger did put up the item for roll which I won. Thankfully I have never seen someone turn around and auction off what I have passed to them. If so, they would indeed make my blacklist.

That being said, I do notice certain players, especially that are clearly from other cultural groups (not American), who it seems to regularly occur that there is selling of raid loot. I do not see them selling of stuff they won rolls on, just selling loot that the game assigned to them when looting chests. Apparently this is acceptable for them in their gaming culture/norms. So I do not get judgmental or offended, I just finish out and say thanks for the group. I do not personally agree with it, and won't participate in it, but clearly others do, as there never seems to be a lack of persons coughing up items/plat for these trades. In those cases I do not take names, as I see a difference between a cultural norm different than mine, vs. a person that's just greedy and doesn't think conventions/ values apply to them. (who is of the same general gaming culture as I am)


I bet this has some interesting insights, but I can't read a dark color on a black background.

[cdemeritt]

If I put something that drops in my name up for roll, you had better be planning on using it yourself. I find out you "sold" an item you rolled on, I will never pass you anything again.. I just as easily could have sold the item myself.

There are many opinions about "loot" but basically I think for most people when something goes up for a roll, you need to honor the roll. What happens before the item is rolled on is of course another matter. However if you were rolling on an item, and lost the roll, then your part is over and have no rights to said item in anyway (including complaining about what the winner does with it).

[mudfud]

That's what "putting it up for a roll" means. "Anyone who NEEDS this item, roll for it"


I disagree with the first part. When you're putting it up for roll, you're donating it and it's with an applie understanding that the person who wins will be using the item (not selling it). You could have simply sold it if that was your wish.

I personally don't like putting caveats when I put something up for roll. I don't run with people I feel are shady if I can help it. If I do see someone questionable, then I might put up a caveat, or simply ignore their roll.

That's why the whole rolling point is moot. Not everyone is honest enough. With the way I do I decide who gets it, whom I think will best be suited for it. Half the pugs I happen to raid with roll on stuff they have no clue what it is. They see roll d100 for (said item) and roll without even knowing what it is. Or they roll because they might/are TR'ing in the future.

Definately I'd agree if they are shady and I can control it, they will not be coming with me at all.

[twizznach]

Its wrong to auction it if u won the roll but not if u got it as u opened the chest, Both though are in bad taste however. Now offering to buy or trade for the item if someone else won the roll is ok i think because if in 1st case person might roll just to sell it in this 2nd case person is more likely to need the item and therefor would be making a sacrifice buy not looting it and selling it to someone who wanted it bad enough to offer something possibly more valuble instead.

[Kinerd]

Thelmallen hit it exactly on the nose. It is a question of being "well-mannered", and what people actually mean when they say "your loot, your call". Like any slogan, it doesn't really give a complete understanding of the position at hand. Some people mean it literally, and to them it is therefore 100% acceptable for whoever wins the roll to use it on an alt, auction it off, vend it, leave it in the chest, hand it to their pal, etc. Their loot, their call, period. Some people see an implication in the philosophy of putting something up for roll, though, such as Thrudh's "Anyone who NEEDS this item, roll for it". The trouble with implications, of course, is that they are by definition not explicit. Implications lead to misunderstandings, misunderstandings lead to drama, drama leads to suffering. (I think David Bowie said that.)

I would not personally do anything with a won roll but use it, but that use might come on an alt. I am sure you can find someone who will say that that is not appropriate behavior. Even though they would be in the minority, the best way to handle these disputes is to make the unwritten rules that you are following explicit. Nobody knows how to read what is not written. Most (well... some) people know how to read what is.

[Renvar]

So, Let me pose this question?

Let's say its VON.

Player Y (casting spec cleric. No plan to TR) pulls an eSOS shard.

Player X desparately wants Shard. Sends tell and offers 4 large scales for the shard. Or whatever. A godfather offer.

Player Y decides to put Shard up for roll because selling loot is in poor form in their opinion.

Player X rolls and loses
Player Z rolls and wins.

Player X sends tell to player Z with same offer. Player Z is a melee sort, but has no SoS, seal, or scroll. But does have a Lit II great axe that is 4 scales short of tier 3. Wants to take the deal.

Can Player Z make that deal? Is Player X in the wrong to offer to buy the loot, if it's that valuable? If Player Y had a shot at the deal and chose not to take it, is it wrong that Player Z finds the scales more valuable than the Shard?

What are your thoughts on this?

[eonfreon]

That's what "putting it up for a roll" means. "Anyone who NEEDS this item, roll for it"

Not exactly. You can allow random chance govern or you can assign it to whom you want to.

I do prefer assigning it. I will ask who wants it. Based on those who want it, I will then determine whom I wish to give it to or if I rather just let chance determine.

i once offered up a Tumbleweed, asking who wanted it. A few said they wanted it. One was a Monk, another a Rogue, a third a Fighter. I asked "for the Dex and + to hit?"
They all said yes and the Fighter added, "I already have one but I would like another in case mine breaks."
I told him no chance and explained that Raid loot is exempt from permanent damage.

I then let the Rogue and Monk roll on it.

As far as the OP's question, I vote "no" on all counts. It is not cool to roll on something and then offer it to others for a price.
Nor is it cool to roll on it and vendor it. In that case the original puller should sell it.

[D-molisher]

If you roll for loot, you better use it yourself, not auction it.
Since i could as well have vendored it, instead off hoping someone could use it.



This should be fun *takes a seat and grabs popcorn*

Oh pass the popcorn PLZ.

[Aaxeyu]

It's uncool. If someone puts an item up for roll he want only those who need the item to roll. This is ofcourse not a law of nature, but it's the norm.

[mws2970]

Oh pass the popcorn PLZ.

Shrplz! I want some too! Nom, nom, nom!

[DelScorcho]

Selling items in the chest is vulgar IMO anyway. I don't even put items for roll anymore. I ask if anyone needs, and the first one to say something gets it.

[Cyr]

Basically it goes like this for me. If I see anyone buying, selling, or passing loot that has been rolled on they go instantly onto my do not group list (which generally lasts a few weeks and forever if someone gets on it a few times).

If I see people buying/selling loot before a roll (not nearly as big a deal) I make a mental note of it. If I see them do it more then once I make sure that they never get any loot I pull. If they do it habitually I avoid running with on any quest where the loot is important. Frankly any buying of selling of bound loot is poor form if you roll on other people's loot yourself anytime.

Oh and if you ever trade for something under any circumstances and get your side of the trade and don't deliver your goods you should be perma banned from the game.

[Geodude07]

I agree that the situation you describe is a bit 'seedy' but I wouldn't give anyone a hard time about it, just roll my eyes and chuckle. If you roll on something in a chest, I think most of the well-mannered people in the game would agree that you should be intending to use it, not to sell it to someone who had the misfortune to roll lower than you.



I dunno, I think it is a bit more than a bit "seedy" because it just fosters the idea that the rich get richer so to speak and the poor new guy wont ever get a shot at loot unless he pulls it (or sells some he might want to buy others he cant afford) this will in essence make it so the long time players who already have lots of good loot easily aquire more where a newer player with little to their name cant move ahead as easily.

Yes it sounds nice to be able to buy your loot when you are rich, but a new player will feel ripped off as they did contribute to the success of the run, and now that doesnt matter, all that matters is if you are mr.moneybags. The roll system was put into effect to give us an unbiased way to distribute loot without letting anyone have a real advantage.


And as for the main topic, it is really really poor form to roll and then try and sell, and that would get a nice blacklist from me.

[ddoer]

Here's a minor variation on this question... is it acceptable to sell raid chest loot that you didn't roll on?

Suppose you're running VoN on your caster cleric or something and Sword of Shadow appears in the chest with your name on it. You have no use for it, but instead of putting it up for a roll, you decide to auction it off to the highest bidder.
...

I don't understand why ppl against in-quest auction. People who are willing to make a high bid simply need the item the most. If you put in a roll, anyone may roll, and there is no guarantee that the people who roll and win actually need the item unless you know the guy in advance.

people put up things for roll by the name of "need before greed", but using a rolling system that allow greedy people to get the item rather than using an auction that could effective allocate the item to the one who really need.

Selling an item that you won from a roll is not acceptable to me, however.

[Tat2Freak]

...does anyone like tartar sauce, god its good on it.

[ddoer]

Yes it sounds nice to be able to buy your loot when you are rich, but a new player will feel ripped off as they did contribute to the success of the run, and now that doesnt matter, all that matters is if you are mr.moneybags. The roll system was put into effect to give us an unbiased way to distribute loot without letting anyone have a real advantage.


Think about this, when the new player get a useful item, say an epic sos shard or ss ring shard, he can simply sell it in the quest and get a lot of cash and large red/devil scale or get a scroll that he really need to craft his epic item. He can benefit from the plats and scales more than a shard that he may never make a ESoS/E SS Ring.

Free market has its merit. That's why capitalism works.

No one get ripped off. Every one has equal chance to get the uber loot. I would say the new (or any) player who expect to get the uber loot from another player for free with a roll is simply greedy. The loot is not suppose to be yours anyway, a free roll is a gift but not an obligation.

[rest]

So, Let me pose this question?

Let's say its VON.

Player Y (casting spec cleric. No plan to TR) pulls an eSOS shard.

Player X desparately wants Shard. Sends tell and offers 4 large scales for the shard. Or whatever. A godfather offer.

Player Y decides to put Shard up for roll because selling loot is in poor form in their opinion.

Player X rolls and loses
Player Z rolls and wins.

Player X sends tell to player Z with same offer. Player Z is a melee sort, but has no SoS, seal, or scroll. But does have a Lit II great axe that is 4 scales short of tier 3. Wants to take the deal.

Can Player Z make that deal? Is Player X in the wrong to offer to buy the loot, if it's that valuable? If Player Y had a shot at the deal and chose not to take it, is it wrong that Player Z finds the scales more valuable than the Shard?

What are your thoughts on this?

Moot point since shards are BTA. Caster cleric could use it on someone else. If they don't have a user for an eSoS, they should roll one up :p

[Wizard_Zero]

First off, all raid loot is "bound" and 95% of it is bound to character, so people can't sell raid loot for profit anywhere else.

I play DDO to have fun and get away from the negative aspect of the world. Greed is the bane of human existence, luckily there is less of that on DDO, but still plenty.

If someone rolls on an item they don't need, but solely to make a quick buck, I don't take very kindly to that. I surely won't play with that person again. DDO isn't about trying to make money every chance you get, save that **** for the real world.

Then again, the hardest thing in life is getting along with other people, even the selfish ones.

[ddoer]

So, Let me pose this question?

Let's say its VON.

Player Y (casting spec cleric. No plan to TR) pulls an eSOS shard.

Player X desparately wants Shard. Sends tell and offers 4 large scales for the shard. Or whatever. A godfather offer.

Player Y decides to put Shard up for roll because selling loot is in poor form in their opinion.

Player X rolls and loses
Player Z rolls and wins.

Player X sends tell to player Z with same offer. Player Z is a melee sort, but has no SoS, seal, or scroll. But does have a Lit II great axe that is 4 scales short of tier 3. Wants to take the deal.

Can Player Z make that deal? Is Player X in the wrong to offer to buy the loot, if it's that valuable? If Player Y had a shot at the deal and chose not to take it, is it wrong that Player Z finds the scales more valuable than the Shard?

What are your thoughts on this?

IMHO, nothing wrong for X to make the offer.

Player Y put it up for roll probably assume people who roll are actually need the shard.

Player Z shouldn't take the offer, at least, without agreed by Player Y first. Because if he will sell the shard, he probably don't need it. (large scaled could be farmed in Shroud, it is not a must to trade) If he does it, he probably don't want to let anyone know.

[eonfreon]

Think about this, when the new player get a useful item, say an epic sos shard or ss ring shard, he can simply sell it in the quest and get a lot of cash and large red/devil scale or get a scroll that he really need to craft his epic item. He can benefit from the plats and scales more than a shard that he may never make a ESoS/E SS Ring.

Free market has its merit. That's why capitalism works.

No one get ripped off. Every one has equal chance to get the uber loot. I would say the new (or any) player who expect to get the uber loot from another player for free with a roll is simply greedy. The loot is not suppose to be yours anyway, a free roll is a gift but not an obligation.

I am pretty much in agreement with you. I've never thought it was underhanded to auction off your own Raid loot.
The new player has as much chance at getting the loot in the first place, when the chest is opened. No expectations should exist afterwards, with what other's do with their loot pull.

Personally, I've never sold or auctioned raid loot. Simply because I had no need for money or items. I've gotten some items from rolls myself, so I've felt it only fair to be "nice".

However, I've never taken any offense to people who do offer it up to auction or others who offer items/money before the original puller said what he's doing with it.

And as I've been more involved in the game lately and started actually dealing with the AH and spending all that Plat that I thought would last forever (it did when my wants were very modest - not so much nowadays when I'm actively trying to gear up for Epics) I can see where I'll start to want to receive some money or item trades.

Whether folks would blacklist me or whether I care that they would, I'm unsure. I'm becoming "known" around the circles I run and people like me and my build. I would hope that they mention their dislike if I changed my ways of dealing with my pulled loot rather then spread nasty remarks about me and blacklist me. But who knows.

[Quikster]

...does anyone like tartar sauce, god its good on it.


I always knew there was something wrong with you....

[rexservorum]

I don't understand why ppl against in-quest auction. People who are willing to make a high bid simply need the item the most. If you put in a roll, anyone may roll, and there is no guarantee that the people who roll and win actually need the item unless you know the guy in advance.

I guess it depends on your definition of "need." Let's extend the Sword of Shadow example for this purpose.

Players A and B are both on level 12 THF melee characters. Epic Sword of Shadow will naturally appear in both of their endgame loot wish lists.

Player A is on his first life, maybe even his first character. He's run the VoN raid three times now. Sword of Shadow would be a great weapon for him to use while leveling, in addition to being useful in his eventual level 20 equipment layout. It dropped for someone, and that person has put it up for an auction. As the bid climbs into the hundreds of thousands, he becomes crestfallen because he's never even seen that kind of plat.

Player B is a TR who's run the VoN raid many times in his various lives. He's got his Mineral 2, his Lightning 2, but not his ESoS yet. Maybe he even has all the stuff to make the epic version. He's got plat coming out his ears, so when the sword goes up for auction, he wins it with no problem.

Which of these two players "needed" the sword more? Some will say A, because he doesn't have a nice weapon already and could really get some good use out of it for a long time. Others will say B because it's among the last things he has yet to acquire for his perfect equipment build.

I realize where you were coming from; someone who's willing to pony up a lot of plat for something is proving that he actually intends to use it. But the inability to pay through the nose for something does not necessarily mean that that person doesn't "need" it. There are other factors involved. This is where you get posts like Geodude's that find the whole practice of auctioning bound raid loot to be distasteful.

[Samiusbot]

As I see it the question boils down to "Is rolling raid loot to sell to other party members okay?"

To me offering something up for roll is like saying I would like to gift this to one of you but I don't want to have to pick a favorite. So roll if you think you would use it.

The sale of raid loot is not the issue.

But if you want to sale something I just gave you to someone else? No that was my gift. If you don't need it want is bad enough to keep and use it, please pass it to the next person down the line. The guy offering up his loot for roll just got screwed. Losing out on loot and probably the loot that he/she is doing the raid for.

Would you take a gift during a party and turn to everyone else in the room and try to sell it?

[mws2970]

I always knew there was something wrong with you....

This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black! :P

[Quikster]

This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black! :P

While this may be true, i certainly dont defile the good name of popcorn by putting that junk on it!

[Cashiry]

Basically it goes like this for me. If I see anyone buying, selling, or passing loot that has been rolled on they go instantly onto my do not group list (which generally lasts a few weeks and forever if someone gets on it a few times).

If I see people buying/selling loot before a roll (not nearly as big a deal) I make a mental note of it. If I see them do it more then once I make sure that they never get any loot I pull. If they do it habitually I avoid running with on any quest where the loot is important. Frankly any buying of selling of bound loot is poor form if you roll on other people's loot yourself anytime.

Oh and if you ever trade for something under any circumstances and get your side of the trade and don't deliver your goods you should be perma banned from the game.

You have to be in the game to loot chests.... where are ya fool?

[KillEveryone]

If no one wants is and it is listed as a greed roll by the original owner, fine.

If you are rolling on it to sell even though others are rolling on it to use...bad form. People won't want to group with you then.

If you are planning on selling it to the other rollers while it is in the chest, very bad form and will make blacklists. Probably earn a forum post to not group with you with a round of PMs.

[mws2970]

While this may be true, i certainly dont defile the good name of popcorn by putting that junk on it!

I prefer my popcorn with a little salt and some butter. Now back to our regularly scheduled drama and trolling!

[bruha118]

yep was in that run and not cool imo....everyone put forth an effort to complete the raid...why should any1 have too spend plat or trade items to get a piece of raid loot that they helped complete...A. keep the loot...B. give to guildie/friend...C. put it up for roll....selling/trading/ buying raid loot is not cool imo...but yes it is ylyc...but if i personally only had 1pp to my name i still wouldnt try to sell my loot, especially if i just won the roll on it...this is just my opinion

[Beethoven]

Not exactly. You can allow random chance govern or you can assign it to whom you want to.


You realize what you are saying is: putting something up for roll can mean assigning something to a specific person without roll.

Uhm, no? Assigning it without roll is called, "handing it over." It has nothing to do with the topic. No one here is disputing the "your loot, your call" bit. You want to hand your loot to another player, fine. No prob.

However, if I (the loot puller) say, "putting it up for roll to anyone who /needs/ it", is it really so much to ask for this to be respected? Now, I read it correct that's also exactly what Trudh was saying.

Also, "not everyone is honest enough" does not make the whole roll thing moot. It merely opens it to a whole different philosophical debate along the lines of: since not everyone will treat me with respect, does it mean I do not show even the most basic courtesy to everyone around me?

Myself, I like to assume everyone I deal with is a decent human person unless I have prove of the contrary. Yes, sometimes I get disappointed but to me that does not mean I will start to automatically assume everyone is bad like that (and my experience on the game so far proves the contrary. There are some bad apples out there, but the majority of gamers I ran into are actually pretty nice fellows).

[ddoer]

Whether folks would blacklist me or whether I care that they would, I'm unsure. I'm becoming "known" around the circles I run and people like me and my build. I would hope that they mention their dislike if I changed my ways of dealing with my pulled loot rather then spread nasty remarks about me and blacklist me. But who knows.

in fact, i have never put stuff up for auction, and I have never bought any raid loot. But i do like to pass useful loot to my friends who has declared they need them an item before a quest.




I guess it depends on your definition of "need." Let's extend the Sword of Shadow example for this purpose.

Players A and B are both on level 12 THF melee characters. Epic Sword of Shadow will naturally appear in both of their endgame loot wish lists.

... As the bid climbs into the hundreds of thousands, he becomes crestfallen because he's never even seen that kind of plat.

Player B is a TR who's run the VoN raid many times in his various lives. He's got his Mineral 2, his Lightning 2, but not his ESoS yet. Maybe he even has all the stuff to make the epic version. He's got plat coming out his ears, so when the sword goes up for auction, he wins it with no problem.

Which of these two players "needed" the sword more? Some will say A, because he doesn't have a nice weapon already and could really get some good use out of it for a long time. Others will say B because it's among the last things he has yet to acquire for his perfect equipment build.

I realize where you were coming from; someone who's willing to pony up a lot of plat for something is proving that he actually intends to use it. But the inability to pay through the nose for something does not necessarily mean that that person doesn't "need" it. There are other factors involved. This is where you get posts like Geodude's that find the whole practice of auctioning bound raid loot to be distasteful.

I made my argument on a thread on my server's forum that could better express my point. Take a look if you have interest: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=293109

I don't think the one has more plats has more need. It is obviously. I never compare the degree of needs. There is no way to compare. But you can compare two systems: auctioning vs unconditional roll. auctioning roughly guarantee the one who win has need, but unconditional roll does not. An alternative way has mentioned briefly on my thread is to use a minimum fee auction.

The base SoS is not a good example to me. If you keep running EV6, it is not hard to get your base SoS item as most people have it already. It isn't a kind of loot that worth to be auctioned.

Think about one more scenario, for a new player that do not have chance to run EV6 regularly like people in a large guild. They don't see an SoS Shard often, and obviously don't have too many chance to win a SoS Shard loot. It is basically very very difficult for him to get an Epic SoS. However, if there is an auction system in place, he at least can offer plats or a rare scroll to trade for the shard. (he may just farm von1 for esos scroll to trade for a shard)

[Cyr]

You have to be in the game to loot chests.... where are ya fool?

Taking another break from the game. That halloween event kind killed my desire to play for a few months. Nothing more boring then grinding out kills of something.

Probably will start playing again sometime in the next couple weeks bud.

[rexservorum]

I made my argument on a thread on my server's forum that could better express my point. Take a look if you have interest: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=293109

Thank you for posting that link; I read it and now have a much better understanding of your argument. It sounds like we agree that there is no way to quantify need, but that an auction does prove a real intent to make use of something.

[Folonius]

I'd say no what do you think?

Personally, I could care less. If I put it up for roll, I don't care where it goes after that.

On the flip side, no ... It's not cool. The vast majority of people don't like it when someone rolls on an item jsut to give that item away again as it gives unfair advantages to the person who actually wants it, ie more than one roll.

Now, if I'm running a shroud, and someone pipes up and offers 2 large devil scales for a shard of power when we start running the shroud, and I pull a shard of power, I wouldn't have any remorse in selling that shard of power to the guy who wants to give me 2 large devil scales. Heck, even if I needed the shard of power for myself, I'd sell it anyways for that much.

[hermespan]

yea... lame.

The question I have is how would you know they sold it? Did you do this or did someone tell you they did it? There's no way to know otherwise.

Some who told members of the raid they intended to do this after they rolled on it, won it and looted it, is asking for trouble...

[Raveneia]

yeah its stupid..it's saying "hey I have more plat than anyone else I can buy anything"

Just do it the old fashioned way and roll

unbound loot can be sold too and usually does get traded or put up on the AH a few hours after that raid


It's what you decide to do with your loot I guess

but I would never sell my raid drops to anyone they are always put up for roll.

[Folonius]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3651/3314642992_dfde616515.jpg?v=0

[ddoer]

Personally, I could care less. If I put it up for roll, I don't care where it goes after that.

On the flip side, no ... It's not cool. The vast majority of people don't like it when someone rolls on an item jsut to give that item away again as it gives unfair advantages to the person who actually wants it, ie more than one roll.


If player A put a loot up for roll, player B win it and sell to player C. The money should go to player A but not player B.

[LordPiglet]

Its wrong to auction it if u won the roll but not if u got it as u opened the chest, Both though are in bad taste however. Now offering to buy or trade for the item if someone else won the roll is ok i think because if in 1st case person might roll just to sell it in this 2nd case person is more likely to need the item and therefor would be making a sacrifice buy not looting it and selling it to someone who wanted it bad enough to offer something possibly more valuble instead.

I don't agree with buying and selling, especially if you won a roll, If you're going to offier, make it in advance, don't do it after you've lost the roll. Yes, I can see how that person has to make a choice, but now you've ****ed the person who the item dropped for out of that plat, scales, etc that you decided to trade your freebie gift for.

[mudfud]

While this may be true, i certainly dont defile the good name of popcorn by putting that junk on it!

While my kids have eaten some stuff i'd never eat, I think I'm gonna have them try that for kicks.
I know half the people in this thread are missing the days of runes for raid items. And the other half are missing when you could enter the raid after completion and loot the raid loot.

[moops]

It's wrong. It would get you blacklisted from any raid that I lead, and Id prob drop any group that you join.

Most people in QE put all their loot up for roll for the whole group if it is not needed, and many times even if other guildies have been pining over the loot for weeks. . .Its just a huge slap in the face if someone wins it just to auction it off or even pass it to someone else.

[Quikster]

yea... lame.

The question I have is how would you know they sold it? Did you do this or did someone tell you they did it? There's no way to know otherwise.

Some who told members of the raid they intended to do this after they rolled on it, won it and looted it, is asking for trouble...

Yeah this stemmed from someone who won an item then traded it in the chest to someone else, got cheated and came here complaining about getting cheated.

[nolaureltree000]

if its BtC and i cant use it, its going up for roll. none of that 'i need it for a TR' BS either. i might limit who can roll on the item too. if its a healing item ill give a full cleric or fvs preference to it rather than a pally.

if its unbound or BtA and either my current toon or one of my alts needs it, im going to keep it. if i dont have any need for it, then ill put it up for roll.

[vyvy3369]

I don't think the one has more plats has more need. It is obviously. I never compare the degree of needs. There is no way to compare. But you can compare two systems: auctioning vs unconditional roll. auctioning roughly guarantee the one who win has need, but unconditional roll does not. An alternative way has mentioned briefly on my thread is to use a minimum fee auction.
An even better alternative for judging need: first dX gets it. The people who need it, know right away that they want it. The people who kinda want it, or have to check if they already have it, etc. have to look first and thus tend to lose.

It also works pretty well at avoiding roll drama - occasionally someone mis-reads people's dice, someone goes AFK and decides they want to roll after it's already been passed, etc.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Seconded. Only roll on something if you're going to use it. (This also goes for people who roll on something to pass to a friend, basically giving the other person 2 rolls...)

I had this happen to me the other day in a raid......won a roll....rolled a 100 in fact...the raid leader deemed the only other person that rolled on the item needed it more than I did than rolled on the item....like your gonna beat a roll of 100 anyways....very humorously after losing his roll with a roll of 98...everyone sat at the chest in a moment of perplexion.

Then the moron of a raid leader tries to say my roll didn't count because I had put mine item up first....except I made my die roll number unique so there was a clear distinction between who was rolling for my item and who was rolling for the other item.

Both rolls which were made before anyone rolled on mine were clearly for the item I rolled on as they were for a standard d100 roll. Basically the raid leader was trying to nullify both rolls and force me to re-roll hoping I would lose so he could then pass the item.

Well this is the real kicker.....true justice prevailed because the named item I pulled.....the winning roll came from the person who pulled the item I rolled and won on.

So after sitting there for a while the person who won my item asks if I am gonna pass it to him......I said sure as soon as I get my item.

I love it when fate shoves it in the face of people up to shady business and there is nothing they can do about it...it's truly a beautiful thing.

[Kinerd]

yep was in that run and not cool imo....everyone put forth an effort to complete the raid...why should any1 have too spend plat or trade items to get a piece of raid loot that they helped complete...A. keep the loot...B. give to guildie/friend...C. put it up for roll....selling/trading/ buying raid loot is not cool imo...but yes it is ylyc...but if i personally only had 1pp to my name i still wouldnt try to sell my loot, especially if i just won the roll on it...this is just my opinionThey don't, though. Everyone has an equal chance at getting the loot in the chest. Consider an analogue to your statement: why should anyone have to spend US dollars to get access to the Drow race? If someone doesn't have the funds to buy Drow, they can unlock it via grinding - I think everyone will agree that this isn't a terribly unfair way of doing things. Likewise, if someone doesn't have the funds to compete with whomever in a loot auction, they can (eventually) get the loot by grinding out completions.

I still wouldn't do it because I think it's impolite, but I'm still not sure I've seen any reasonable arguments put forward against it.

[Filipinomaids]

Selling Raid is not good.

In my sides,raid loot is not 2 men's business.It is from all teammates work,so it should be a treasure for all teammates

[Forlan]

Does this count for the chain shirt and breastplate from HoX too? I thought they were BtC vendor trash.

I don't get why ppl hate on the breastplate. the chain shirt yea vendor trash. but that bp destruction -4 ac. use it all the time on my rogue mix. makes up for only having a 16 ba if u ask me. far from useless. (and yes improved is better but beats switching out for it after every attack.)

[Quikster]

I don't get why ppl hate on the breastplate. the chain shirt yea vendor trash. but that bp destruction -4 ac. use it all the time on my rogue mix. makes up for only having a 16 ba if u ask me. far from useless. (and yes improved is better but beats switching out for it after every attack.)

cuz some of us have been watching that stuff drop all the time for years. Besides I like dt better. Oh and since they changed the look of it back to those white pjs UGH.

[likeplaying]

I think this thread is absolutely"The bad guy is the first to sling accusations",most of people dont know what happened ,Before I loot my SOS,cheater told me(not in party channel) I have items for EP SOS,plz sell it to me. I cant describe how many words he sent to me ,its full of my chat displays.Actually,he beg for my SOS as a miserable dog,at last ,I give SOS to him out of pity,but he didnt keep his promise,I never say I want to sell SOS in my party chat dispalys,I never tell anyone i want to sell sos.He sent message to me before i loot my SOS.OK,the answer is clear,that man is a cheater,he just want to cheat me of my SOS with his blandishments,I just want to tell more people "He's a scurvy wretch"!!!

[Thelmallen]

cuz some of us have been watching that stuff drop all the time for years. Besides I like dt better. Oh and since they changed the look of it back to those white pjs UGH.

Why did they change it back, anyway? The dark skin looked quite cool, I thought. Maybe it was a scheme to get people to want to spend TP on armor appearance kits.

[Kronik]

I will most always put my loot for roll if I don't need it, however If someone tells me they will pay me or trade me items before I offer it then to me it a fair deal.

I pulled a +3 tome once and got 3 different offers for it. I ended up taking a trade for some gear I needed. I dont feel bad for it and matter of fact could have used the tome.

bottom line is that it is YOUR loot! Every player and every situation can be different so rather than speak in generality, I would say use your best judgment if the situation presents itself. To roll on loot and then sell it is Bullshiz in any form. But how many times have you seen a guild member roll for an item that another guild member in the group needs?

Whatever you do just be prepaired to be Blacklisted if you **** people off. Funny how this works though caus I have given so much shiz out and didnt get so much as a thank you, but I know had I kept it or sold it I would have never heard the end of it...

[Lifespawn]

I always knew there was something wrong with you....


and this was you first indication? jeez quick your actually kinda slow =P


Open chest item drops in your name kinda weak but wouldn't get you blacklisted by me if you auctioned it as long as it was not a silent auction with one person that juggles tells back and forth forcing the guy to make a fast trade or he gets nothing.

You roll on loot someone else got on chest opening and then put it for auction or pass it to a friend your on that list of sleaze balls.

[Tat2Freak]

and this was you first indication? jeez quick your actually kinda slow =P


Open chest item drops in your name kinda weak but wouldn't get you blacklisted by me if you auctioned it as long as it was not a silent auction with one person that juggles tells back and forth forcing the guy to make a fast trade or he gets nothing.

You roll on loot someone else got on chest opening and then put it for auction or pass it to a friend your on that list of sleaze balls.


I can read between the lines..but apparently quick cant....get closer to your monitor when u read my post...

@Likeplaying: It shouldnt have mattered if he offered you a Marilith Chain Scroll, you rolled on it...he rolled on it...you told me u had an ESoS, you rolling on it at that point, wow...but then to make a guy pay for something, that u already had the epic version of...and to top it off...if you hadnt been greedy FROM THE GET, he would have won the roll...

[likeplaying]

I can read between the lines..but apparently quick cant....get closer to your monitor when u read my post...

@Likeplaying: It shouldnt have mattered if he offered you a Marilith Chain Scroll, you rolled on it...he rolled on it...you told me u had an ESoS, you rolling on it at that point, wow...but then to make a guy pay for something, that u already had the epic version of...and to top it off...if you hadnt been greedy FROM THE GET, he would have won the roll...

I think I have EP SOS is none of your business,how many ep weapons I have is none of your business ,too.Your words just let me know you are a scurvy wretch,too.You said this out of envy!!!!!!! Pilgarlic!

[Tat2Freak]

You looted your loot, rolled on the SoS(won and then traded it) and then tried to roll on the Shard of the Red Dragon, does your greed know no bounds...


I think I have EP SOS is none of your business,how many ep weapons I have is none of your business ,too.Your words just let me know you are a scurvy wretch,too.You said this out of envy!!!!!!! Pilgarlic!

...three months late...


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[Quikster]

and this was you first indication? jeez quick your actually kinda slow =P



I said i always knew, wouldnt that indicate there were other indicators?


I can read between the lines..but apparently quick cant....get closer to your monitor when u read my post...




I was refraining from calling you out and commenting on the written word and not the hidden meaning. I can read between the lines just fine, but I think what you really mean is to read between the words eh? Oh and your spelling is a bit off :)

[Quikster]

I think I have EP SOS is none of your business,how many ep weapons I have is none of your business ,too.Your words just let me know you are a scurvy wretch,too.You said this out of envy!!!!!!! Pilgarlic!

So you justify your greed by playing what I have is none of your buisness? Keep it up and watch how it effects your group play.

[lidas]

could anyone PM me the whole drama in that VoN run?"the bad guy" you ppl judged is my guildie so i really need to know.
btw pls dont just blame the seller,both of the seller and buyer broke the rules established by usage,how fairly to just blame one of them?
pls PM me about the buyer if youve been there,appreciate it.

[Tat2Freak]

could anyone PM me the whole drama in that VoN run?"the bad guy" you ppl judged is my guildie so i really need to know.
btw pls dont just blame the seller,both of the seller and buyer broke the rules established by usage,how fairly to just blame one of them?
pls PM me about the buyer if youve been there,appreciate it.

Na, your guildie is the only "bad guy" here

[MrWizard]

I'd say no what do you think?

most would think you are a bad player and would get upset with you.
some may not care.

why would you do something so lame for a few hundred plat? Let someone who needs it get it...they might not get a chance at it again for 100 more runs.

[mudfud]

most would think you are a bad player and would get upset with you.
some may not care.

why would you do something so lame for a few hundred plat? Let someone who needs it get it...they might not get a chance at it again for 100 more runs.

I was gonna be an ahole but figured it's christmas, so I will just say this. I've seen that same excuse used by part time players justifying why they should get it because the 'other' person raids and plays more then they do.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Really the only mature attitude to have going into a raid is if when the warded chest is opened...the person whose name is on the loot can do what they like with it.

That being said........everyone in the raid generally should receive consideration and a chance to get a piece of loot thru rolling...I try to always look at the bigger picture when it comes to raids.....and my attitude...even tho not everyone will agree is the loot is everyones......if I pull something that is really beneficial to my character and not just some minor perk I will take it...everything else I will put up for roll......and I will make a final judgement call on whose rolling too......if some Stalwart Defender rolls on something like Levik's Defender and some arcane rolls on it just for DR blocking I don't care if the arcane rolls 10 100's in a row...the Stalwart is getting it.

I think it's general really bad for the game to have someone lose out on an item that is extremely beneficial to their character because some people are just lame.

This is just my view on things tho, it's not wrong or right...but how I view raid loot etiquette.

[evilnatas]

no. merry chirstmas everybody.

[Sendoo]

Selling items in the chest is vulgar IMO anyway. I don't even put items for roll anymore. I ask if anyone needs, and the first one to say something gets it.

i use this exact same method the first person to say they need something when i ask gets the item.

also i love del taco too bad i moved to a place that doesnt have del taco :(

[MrWizard]

I was gonna be an ahole but figured it's christmas, so I will just say this. I've seen that same excuse used by part time players justifying why they should get it because the 'other' person raids and plays more then they do.

i am not sure why you would be angry at me, the guy asked if taking and roll and then selling it is cool...and I just told him that many would not like it and some would not care.

but to take it and then sell it versus letting people who need it roll on it...well..it just seems a bit lame from any logical point and I think the backlash would be very hard on such a player.

[GregorianPL]

Selling Loot with you droped is Ok but if someone droped it you rolled for it and now you want to sell it you should be squelched and everyone in group should tell about it on forum

[mudfud]

i am not sure why you would be angry at me, the guy asked if taking and roll and then selling it is cool...and I just told him that many would not like it and some would not care.

but to take it and then sell it versus letting people who need it roll on it...well..it just seems a bit lame from any logical point and I think the backlash would be very hard on such a player.

Not mad. :p
Was just sharing my stories from what you mentioned was all.