Wise to Run Shroud - 1st time @ Lvl 15

[Saiyren]

At what level is it good to do a 1st Shroud run?

I have a lvl 15 Sorc (Ebonyfire) on Ghandalla and most the time I see Shroud runs posting for 17-20, 18-20 or 20-20.

Is it better for me to just kill and do quests in Meridia until I can get to level 17, or is it possible safe for me to try my first Shroud run at level 15? (Already have my shard and have been looking at what materials I need for my greensteel item).

Would love to get some feedback about what to do in Shroud as a caster since I would rather not be a complete N00b just slightly one on my first run. :D

Thanks for future advise/constructive critism/help.

Ebony

[Goldeneye]

You might not be as useful as a level 20 caster, but so what.
If you can find a party that'll bring you a long, have fun!

[nolaureltree000]

you can certainly run shroud at level 15. i just may be a bit hard to find someone that will let you into their group, especially as a first timer at level 15 on a caster. you will get almost no XP as you are getting severely power-leveled by the level 20s, but its worth doing just to get an early start on your ingredients and shards of power imo.

the biggest problem youll have with being a 15 caster in the shroud is that you dont have wail of the banshee yet. in parts 1 and 2, its usually my most used spell. bring a few major spell pots so you dont run out in the middle of one of the parts. having a good amount of pots may help you to get into a group more easily.


Pre-Part 1: pass out GH to everyone as soon as everyone gets inside. no need for blur as people wont be taking much damage. throw a haste right before you go through the portal. if there is another caster in the group that is a higher level, you may want to see if he can pass out GH as he will most likely have more SP than you.


Part 1: when you first get in, cover the whole map killing the trash with Finger of Death/Wail of the Banshee. then run from portal to portal killing the trash that comes out of it with FoD/WoB. cast haste from time to time when a large group of melee's are at a portal and the buff is burning off. the portals take negative energy damage so throw on an extended death aurora if you like. its not going to do much damage though, and other than that, you wont be doing much damage to the portals.

there is a pattern that most groups follow between all the portals. ususally as a caster, you run ahead of the group to clear all the trash before the group gets there. since its your first time, either follow the group and clear the trash as you go, or request that one melee leave the current portal early and lead you to the next portal to help clear the trash.

after completing part 1, cast GH and blur on everyone. run to the side where the alter is, people will group there, then buff them as they run over there. use up all your SP on buffs before shrining.


Part 2: run to the bottom center of the map. there will be a big purple barrier and it will be where everyone is running to. whatever you do, do not run to the top center of the map, because you will pull all the red names before the trash is killed and everyone will be very unhappy with you. if you end up at the red names, just let them kill you and get rezed later.

cast an extended Disco-Ball infront of the purple barrier. then cast some FoD/WoB for whatever trash is left. after that when the red names are pulled, cast a combination of empowered Polar Ray and/or Cone of Cold. disintegrate works too, but it doesnt do much damage so its kind of a waste of SP. if you run low on SP, go to the sides and run in and out of the healing caves (it will regen health and SP). just make sure you check behind you that you dont have any aggro and arent bringing any red names with you when doing so.

if you get asked to break the crystal, stand at the crystal and throw 2 or 3 empowered and entended firewalls ontop of the purple barrier surrounding it. once all the red names are prepped or they start to die, spam as many firewalls on the crystal as you can. if you cast enough of them, the crystal will break the second the shield comes down (when all the red names are dead).

the red names walk back to the crystal after they are killed. if they get to the crystal before it is broken, they will respawn. this happens when a red name is killed early. if one respawns, call it out to the group so they know to stop killing.


Part 3: no buffs before or during Part 3.

BRING KNOCK! its the only spell you will need here. it will let you open puzzle rooms for solvers, or to solve them yourself. if you dont know how to do your puzzle, call out your location to the group so they can come help. after that, run around opening doors for people (target the levers then knock them) and/or run to the center room and run water. you get a vial of water by clicking on the face over the pool of water. then you run to a room that has been solved, and click on the face on the wall to place the water. only put water in puzzles that have been finished or you will miss out on 2 chests and people wont be happy with you.

never step on the big gold circles on the floors of the hallways. this will set off a trap and blast the person behind you.

this is a solver for the puzzles. practice with it a bit to get the general idea for them. you can use your 'my ddo' tab to access the internet if you arent aware. save this link as a link in your my ddo for quick access: http://perfectweb.org/ddo/solver/vale_puzzle.html


Part 4: when you get in, run over to the wall on the side. do not aggro the orthons and devils. youll see where everyone is grouping. lay a discoball and cast a haste on the group. when the trash comes WoB/FoD. when Harry comes, cast Waves of Exhaustion and Waves of Fatigue on him. he seems to resist these spells a fair amount, even on my level 20 WIZ. the effectiveness of those spells on Harry have been scaled back alot, so if you cant get them to cast successfully, no biggie. dont waste too much SP on it. throw a fog cloud or cloud kill on Harry to give the group concealment.

then stand back and cast a few Polar Rays, but ration your SP. rehaste the group if needed. if you dont kill Harry in the first round (which you probably wont), Harry will fly away, and another trash mob will come. use WoB/FoD.

when harry comes back, some gnolls will pop-up around the outside. kill them all using FoD/WoB. this is very important because the gnolls will heal Harry. kill these gnolls off as quickly as possible.

more Polar Rays on Harry if needed.

you may be asked to help heal some of the WF melees on this part, so it doesnt hurt to bring a Reconstruct spell or some scrolls. generally this isnt the case, but if you have a badly spec'd/geared WF tank or some questionable healers, it doesn't hurt to have these just to stop any deaths as no one can be rezed on this part.

also bring some healing pots/candy canes for yourself on this part. sometimes healers will only cast mass heals on the center melees and seem to not pay attention to anyone else.

dont buff before part 5.


Part 5: as soon as you get in, get everyone buffed with Greater Heroism. once everyone is buffed, cast Polar Ray and Cone of Cold on the red names until they are dead. someone should be kiting the elemental on the altar. do not attack him the elemental. when everything is dead but the elemental, run back and forth over the corner of one of the pools until you regen your SP.

the group leader will tell you to kill the elemental when all are buffed and both healers have full SP. when the elemental goes down, Harry comes back. cast Waves of Exhaustion/Fatigue and a concealment cloud on him again. then stand back and cast maximized/empowered Polar Rays and Cone of Cold (if you are close enough) at Harry. when you run low on SP, run back and forth over the corner of the pool. sometimes you may be asked to help heal WF melees on this part, but generally not.

at the end, be ready to cast either a Dimension Door or Greater Teleport for anyone that wants to leave before completing the raid. DO NOT click the alter until everyone is out that wants out. its a good way to **** off alot of people and potentially get blacklisted.


sorry for the giant wall o' text, but thats about the jist of the raid. its really not that difficult once you know what youre doing. run it once or twice, and you should have the hang of most of it.

[Lifeblood]

If you really want to run it at 15 go for it
we were running it at that lvl and lower when it first came out and many still do

Just put up an lfm and see what happens...worse case you wipe its not like you haven't died before

[Stonen]

Did a on level shroud the other day, 16-18, it went very smoothly. Better than most pugs, actually. You could make 15-18 groups and see how it goes. I think you'll have no problems to compleet. As lifeblood said, we used to do it with 13-16 all the time.

[Bloodstealer]

At what level is it good to do a 1st Shroud run?

I have a lvl 15 Sorc (Ebonyfire) on Ghandalla and most the time I see Shroud runs posting for 17-20, 18-20 or 20-20.

Is it better for me to just kill and do quests in Meridia until I can get to level 17, or is it possible safe for me to try my first Shroud run at level 15? (Already have my shard and have been looking at what materials I need for my greensteel item).

Would love to get some feedback about what to do in Shroud as a caster since I would rather not be a complete N00b just slightly one on my first run. :D

Thanks for future advise/constructive critism/help.

Ebony

Awww lower lvl Shrouds... such nostalgia, ooh the memories.

Its not a difficult raid and many of us still remember running it at lvl 14's, without the need for Wail or mass Heal etc etc - just good old fashioned team work, balanced group and tactics - not that these tend to be needed anymore with all the uber loot, TR's etc about.
I think the biggest issue isn't whether you'll be good enuff at lvl 15, its finding a grp that will bring you along - but good luck, it wont take you long to learn the basics of the raid then you will be putting your own LFM's up in no time at all.

[Chatuyscha]

Awww lower lvl Shrouds... such nostalgia, ooh the memories.

Its not a difficult raid and many of us still remember running it at lvl 14's, without the need for Wail or mass Heal etc etc - just good old fashioned team work, balanced group and tactics - not that these tend to be needed anymore with all the uber loot, TR's etc about.
I think the biggest issue isn't whether you'll be good enuff at lvl 15, its finding a grp that will bring you along - but good luck, it wont take you long to learn the basics of the raid then you will be putting your own LFM's up in no time at all.

Agree. Getting group for that lvl range is harder than beating down Harry with a wellboiled salmon

[Deragoth]

If you really want to run it at 15 go for it
we were running it at that lvl and lower when it first came out and many still do

Just put up an lfm and see what happens...worse case you wipe its not like you haven't died before

This. Back when cap was 16, we were doing Shroud on Elite (even after the summon monster exploit was fixed). Levels 15-18 on Normal should be a cakewalk... though it's still a pug lottery out there ;).

[brian14]

Few days ago I ran Shroud for the first time ever -- I am a Ranger 15. Party wipe at Phase 4 which I had nothing to do with -- would have happened with or without me. I was not contributing much, was not a drain either -- just kept putting arrows into portals, then into mobs, and hardly ever drew aggro. I think a level 15 melee would have harder time, as he WOULD draw aggro if he did anything other than stand around.

[voodoogroves]

Well at 15 you won't have Polar Ray or Wail of the Banshee, so that does limit some options. You should still be able to contribute though.

Haven't checked Ice Storm but there are other spells you can zap him and the gnolls with.

[Saiyren]

Thanks for all the wonderful advice and feedback.
I feel much more relieved that I can possibly do my first shroud at level 15.
Hopefully I will remember everything I was told since I do not have Waves of Fatigue or Exhaustion but I do have disintegrate and FoD and Ddoor.

Anyone know if hold monster works well? I have that as well as mass hold person (maybe I should switch mass hold person out?) I do have Haste, not GH yet.

Would you all please advise what is a good balance group? Maybe not total specifics, but like how many melee/tanks, ranged, casters. So far from looking at other notes, at least 2, possibly 3 healers is a good idea.

[Bobthesponge]

Few days ago I ran Shroud for the first time ever -- I am a Ranger 15. Party wipe at Phase 4 which I had nothing to do with -- would have happened with or without me. I was not contributing much, was not a drain either -- just kept putting arrows into portals, then into mobs, and hardly ever drew aggro. I think a level 15 melee would have harder time, as he WOULD draw aggro if he did anything other than stand around.

just a FYI. Harry's aggro is random, so in part 4 you may have either A) been very lucky not to draw aggro or B) you did draw "ranged" aggro in the form of meteor swarms aimed at you but the melee meat shield protected you.

it would bet on the latter.

[UnderwearModel]

If you were able to get flagged, then run the Shroud. You have earned the right in my opinion.

Everyone has to run it sometime for the first tiime. Just say you are running it for the first time.

The good pros will gladly let you in and teach you. Or put up an LFM saying you are looking to run the shroud for the first time. It would be a plus if you are a cleric if you do that.:D

[Natashaelle]

Unless you can get into a good non-capped group, running Shroud at level 15 will mean that you'll be throwing some perfectly good and fairly abundant XP down the loo.

So, not "wise" IMO.

[TEcarson]

<snipped a most excellent post>

sorry for the giant wall o' text, but thats about the jist of the raid. its really not that difficult once you know what youre doing. run it once or twice, and you should have the hang of most of it.

+1 for the tips. I reached 17 on my TR wiz the other night, and the wife and I are gonna hit the Vale and flag for the Shroud. We stayed out until 17 just to ensure that we have enough quests available to cap us.

All that being said, I have only done the Shroud as a cleric (before TR) and as a FvS melee/healer. This thread has been invaluable as I start to think about going in on an arcane.

Thanks again.

[THAC0]

Just had to say +1 to you and while most of us know this... its a good snapshot of what new peeps to the Shroud should/could expect.

T.


you can certainly run shroud at level 15. i just may be a bit hard to find someone that will let you into their group, especially as a first timer at level 15 on a caster. you will get almost no XP as you are getting severely power-leveled by the level 20s, but its worth doing just to get an early start on your ingredients and shards of power imo.

the biggest problem youll have with being a 15 caster in the shroud is that you dont have wail of the banshee yet. in parts 1 and 2, its usually my most used spell. bring a few major spell pots so you dont run out in the middle of one of the parts. having a good amount of pots may help you to get into a group more easily.


Pre-Part 1: pass out GH to everyone as soon as everyone gets inside. no need for blur as people wont be taking much damage. throw a haste right before you go through the portal. if there is another caster in the group that is a higher level, you may want to see if he can pass out GH as he will most likely have more SP than you.


Part 1: when you first get in, cover the whole map killing the trash with Finger of Death/Wail of the Banshee. then run from portal to portal killing the trash that comes out of it with FoD/WoB. cast haste from time to time when a large group of melee's are at a portal and the buff is burning off. the portals take negative energy damage so throw on an extended death aurora if you like. its not going to do much damage though, and other than that, you wont be doing much damage to the portals.

there is a pattern that most groups follow between all the portals. ususally as a caster, you run ahead of the group to clear all the trash before the group gets there. since its your first time, either follow the group and clear the trash as you go, or request that one melee leave the current portal early and lead you to the next portal to help clear the trash.

after completing part 1, cast GH and blur on everyone. run to the side where the alter is, people will group there, then buff them as they run over there. use up all your SP on buffs before shrining.


Part 2: run to the bottom center of the map. there will be a big purple barrier and it will be where everyone is running to. whatever you do, do not run to the top center of the map, because you will pull all the red names before the trash is killed and everyone will be very unhappy with you. if you end up at the red names, just let them kill you and get rezed later.

cast an extended Disco-Ball infront of the purple barrier. then cast some FoD/WoB for whatever trash is left. after that when the red names are pulled, cast a combination of empowered Polar Ray and/or Cone of Cold. disintegrate works too, but it doesnt do much damage so its kind of a waste of SP. if you run low on SP, go to the sides and run in and out of the healing caves (it will regen health and SP). just make sure you check behind you that you dont have any aggro and arent bringing any red names with you when doing so.

if you get asked to break the crystal, stand at the crystal and throw 2 or 3 empowered and entended firewalls ontop of the purple barrier surrounding it. once all the red names are prepped or they start to die, spam as many firewalls on the crystal as you can. if you cast enough of them, the crystal will break the second the shield comes down (when all the red names are dead).

the red names walk back to the crystal after they are killed. if they get to the crystal before it is broken, they will respawn. this happens when a red name is killed early. if one respawns, call it out to the group so they know to stop killing.


Part 3: no buffs before or during Part 3.

BRING KNOCK! its the only spell you will need here. it will let you open puzzle rooms for solvers, or to solve them yourself. if you dont know how to do your puzzle, call out your location to the group so they can come help. after that, run around opening doors for people (target the levers then knock them) and/or run to the center room and run water. you get a vial of water by clicking on the face over the pool of water. then you run to a room that has been solved, and click on the face on the wall to place the water. only put water in puzzles that have been finished or you will miss out on 2 chests and people wont be happy with you.

never step on the big gold circles on the floors of the hallways. this will set off a trap and blast the person behind you.

this is a solver for the puzzles. practice with it a bit to get the general idea for them. you can use your 'my ddo' tab to access the internet if you arent aware. save this link as a link in your my ddo for quick access: http://perfectweb.org/ddo/solver/vale_puzzle.html


Part 4: when you get in, run over to the wall on the side. do not aggro the orthons and devils. youll see where everyone is grouping. lay a discoball and cast a haste on the group. when the trash comes WoB/FoD. when Harry comes, cast Waves of Exhaustion and Waves of Fatigue on him. he seems to resist these spells a fair amount, even on my level 20 WIZ. the effectiveness of those spells on Harry have been scaled back alot, so if you cant get them to cast successfully, no biggie. dont waste too much SP on it. throw a fog cloud or cloud kill on Harry to give the group concealment.

then stand back and cast a few Polar Rays, but ration your SP. rehaste the group if needed. if you dont kill Harry in the first round (which you probably wont), Harry will fly away, and another trash mob will come. use WoB/FoD.

when harry comes back, some gnolls will pop-up around the outside. kill them all using FoD/WoB. this is very important because the gnolls will heal Harry. kill these gnolls off as quickly as possible.

more Polar Rays on Harry if needed.

you may be asked to help heal some of the WF melees on this part, so it doesnt hurt to bring a Reconstruct spell or some scrolls. generally this isnt the case, but if you have a badly spec'd/geared WF tank or some questionable healers, it doesn't hurt to have these just to stop any deaths as no one can be rezed on this part.

also bring some healing pots/candy canes for yourself on this part. sometimes healers will only cast mass heals on the center melees and seem to not pay attention to anyone else.

dont buff before part 5.


Part 5: as soon as you get in, get everyone buffed with Greater Heroism. once everyone is buffed, cast Polar Ray and Cone of Cold on the red names until they are dead. someone should be kiting the elemental on the altar. do not attack him the elemental. when everything is dead but the elemental, run back and forth over the corner of one of the pools until you regen your SP.

the group leader will tell you to kill the elemental when all are buffed and both healers have full SP. when the elemental goes down, Harry comes back. cast Waves of Exhaustion/Fatigue and a concealment cloud on him again. then stand back and cast maximized/empowered Polar Rays and Cone of Cold (if you are close enough) at Harry. when you run low on SP, run back and forth over the corner of the pool. sometimes you may be asked to help heal WF melees on this part, but generally not.

at the end, be ready to cast either a Dimension Door or Greater Teleport for anyone that wants to leave before completing the raid. DO NOT click the alter until everyone is out that wants out. its a good way to **** off alot of people and potentially get blacklisted.


sorry for the giant wall o' text, but thats about the jist of the raid. its really not that difficult once you know what youre doing. run it once or twice, and you should have the hang of most of it.

[sirgog]

I'd advise hitting it at 16, and taking Polar Ray as your level 8 spell.

You'll be quite a bit stronger in there.

Also, make sure to have the spell Fireshield (scrolls are acceptable) as Arraetrikos has the nastiest damage spells of any boss you will have encountered yet, and likes to throw 250 damage Delayed Blast Fireballs and 400 damage Meteor Swarms at random raid members. You *will* be hit by one on your first run (possibly after taking incidental damage from something else), best that you take only half damage.

[Saiyren]

Very helpful to know about the delayed fireball blast. The only worry is that fireshield only lasts a minute or so... ? Wouldn't it be easier to just have fire resist ?

[Meetch1972]

My gimpy L15 rogue would love to join ya... if the LFM's there, and I'm on, I'll apply and hilarity can ensue. When I finish flagging. :p

[Saiyren]

Awesome. Would love to have ya.
I'm ready for flagging to Shroud, actually working on my 2nd set of 5 combined shards already. First one was done a month ago but I was scared about what level I needed to be to run Shroud to actually run one ^.^
Almost have all the components I need for my first blank GS item. So I'm pretty happy about that.

[shadow_419]

Very helpful to know about the delayed fireball blast. The only worry is that fireshield only lasts a minute or so... ? Wouldn't it be easier to just have fire resist ?

The reason to cast a fire shield (cold) on yourself is that incoming fire damage is reduced by 50% before your resist. ;) Without the fire shield, the 30 resist is barely stopping any damage from DBF and Meteor swarm.

[Saiyren]

Ah, gotcha. Makes sense, have 50% reduced before the 30 absorb and/or the 100 absorb dmg before going away. Considering how squishy I am for a Sorc, that's probably the only way i'll live.

[sirgog]

Very helpful to know about the delayed fireball blast. The only worry is that fireshield only lasts a minute or so... ? Wouldn't it be easier to just have fire resist ?

Best to have both.

[Saiyren]

So I don't have polar ray yet. How useful is that spell? I've seen other threads that mention polar ray alot...
I have frost lance, is that similar?

[Mercureal]

Thanks for all the wonderful advice and feedback.
I feel much more relieved that I can possibly do my first shroud at level 15.
Hopefully I will remember everything I was told since I do not have Waves of Fatigue or Exhaustion but I do have disintegrate and FoD and Ddoor.

Anyone know if hold monster works well? I have that as well as mass hold person (maybe I should switch mass hold person out?) I do have Haste, not GH yet.

Would you all please advise what is a good balance group? Maybe not total specifics, but like how many melee/tanks, ranged, casters. So far from looking at other notes, at least 2, possibly 3 healers is a good idea.

Hold monster does work against the trash, but you may have problems at level 15 with getting through the devils' Spell Resistance and/or saves - worth trying though, useful if it sticks.

The standard party makeup, if no one has covered this yet, is 2 healers, 2 arcane casters and 8 melee of various types; but, you don't need those exact ratios to succeed, it's just the most common. The biggest issue is doing damage to Arraetrikos in parts 4 and 5, and that's why you need all of the melee. It's possible to complete with a wide range of party makeups, but probably better to stick to party following the convention until you're a bit more experienced.

As a caster, you'll primarily be involved in killing in parts 1 and 4. As stated above, in part 1 you kill off trash while most of the party focuses on the portals. In part 4 you'll be needed to kill the gnolls (ideally insta-kill, like FoD) that appear and heal Harry. You can help with damage at other times if you have the SP, but those are the crucial times. A caster's big contribution during the other parts of the raid is in party support and crowd control.

[Saiyren]

I talked with my fellow guildies today. My Guild Leader, Ash, was kind enough to give me a 3 hour pass to Sands and I have now leveled to 16 so we are on schedule to run my first Shroud run tomorrow.

If anyone would like to join me/us, please be on Ghandalla server tomorrow (Thursday) @ 1PM PST.
While I know I will lose some XP by having Level 20's in the party vs me being lvl 16, I would rather have people that are experienced in the Shroud so if anyone is able to run Shroud tomorrow, please join in by all means.
Find me under Ebonyfire.

thank you everyone for all the help!