Divine Might, THF, TWF and me.

[wax_on_wax_off]

The description of divine might reads that it delivers +2 sacred damage but I have heard that for THF it delivers 1.5x.

What about for TWF? Does it only deliver 0.5x on the offhand?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Ok, I just did some experiments and Divine Might simply adds +2/4/6/8 damage regardless of whether TWF, THF, sword and board or unarmed.

This means, to clarify, that Divine Might drastically favours TWF over any other style. In fact, DMIV gives 16 damage (8 on each hand) for 20 charisma compared to 8 damage for DMIV THF.

Comparing Strength to Charisma (and ignoring to-hit bonuses), increasing strength from 14, to 16, to 18, to 20 will increase damage by 1.5 per increment for TWF or THF. For Charisma doing the same will increase damage by 4 for TWF or 2 for THF.

In conclusion, DMIII or IV on a TWF build is very strong while return on investment and activation costs for DMII makes it so-so.

[eonfreon]

While I agree with you I just want to add one thing.
A Paladin with GTWF will get +8 on the mainhand 100% of the time and +8 on the offhand 80% of the time on any given attack since offhand attacks have an 80% chance to proc.
Just an additional fact for the number crunchers, since in practice it does not actually equal +16 due to offhands not procing at times.

[wax_on_wax_off]

While I agree with you I just want to add one thing.
A Paladin with GTWF will get +8 on the mainhand 100% of the time and +8 on the offhand 80% of the time on any given attack since offhand attacks have an 80% chance to proc.
Just an additional fact for the number crunchers, since in practice it does not actually equal +16 due to offhands not procing at times.

Good point!

Still, fact remains that Divine Might is huge for TWF while just ok for THF.

[Messsenger]

Nice thread Wax! I just posted one that's similar (a few more questions) because I couldn't find this one.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=358471

I'm a fiend for exact mechanics and have been trying to roll a main for a few weeks now after leveling 3 or 4 toons to lvl 7 or 8. Wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't wasting all of the crafting mats on each one before I got it right! Was looking at tanking initially but have since decided to just try and roll an effective DPS that will have Cleric full heal-bot for most of my leveling. We'll have to see what endgame brings!

[WangoFett]

If the THF paladin has greater two-handed fighting, he'd be getting effectively +11 damage, which is 8 on the main attack plus a 75% chance of a glancing blow proc'ing that would do extra 4 damage. 8 +(.75 * .5 * 8) = 11. That's kinda almost 1.5 times.
Still less than the TWF paladin but not quite half.

[Angelus_dead]

This means, to clarify, that Divine Might drastically favours TWF over any other style. In fact, DMIV gives 16 damage (8 on each hand) for 20 charisma compared to 8 damage for DMIV THF.
Other things that favor TWF over other combat styles:
Divine Favor
Divine Sacrifice
Smite Evil
Exalted Smite
Knight of the Chalice

Know what? That's every single Paladin damage feature except for Zeal.

Previously I have suggested a new Paladin enhancement to adjust this situation:
Paladin Focused Smiting, 1 AP
When you have a single weapon equipped, your bonus damage from Divine Favor, Divine Sacrifice, Smite Evil, and Divine Might increases by 50%.

[WangoFett]

Oh wait I forgot! If that paladin is sword and boarding using a vengeful protector (for the 40% shield bash), and also somehow managed to fit in improved shield bash, he gets another 40% chance to proc 8 extra damage! That's a combined total of 8 +(.75 x.5 x8) +(.4 x8) =14.2 which is .2 away from what TWF gets!

I wouldn't be surprised if there are enhancements to boost two-handed smiting in the new enhancement plan, e.g. a higher chance of smite/sacrifice damage spilling over onto glancing blows maybe.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Oh wait I forgot! If that paladin is sword and boarding using a vengeful protector (for the 40% shield bash), and also somehow managed to fit in improved shield bash, he gets another 40% chance to proc 8 extra damage! That's a combined total of 8 +(.75 x.5 x8) +(.4 x8) =14.2 which is .2 away from what TWF gets!

I wouldn't be surprised if there are enhancements to boost two-handed smiting in the new enhancement plan, e.g. a higher chance of smite/sacrifice damage spilling over onto glancing blows maybe.

Shield Bash bonus proc from Vengeful Protector is broken according to DDOwiki. Your maths looks wonky, anyway, Vengeful Protector = 20%, Improved Shield Bash = 20% for a total of 40% chance or half of the offhand proc of what TWF'ing gives.

[WangoFett]

Maths look fine to me, I did say 40%. That does include glancing blow procs as well (who wouldn't sword-board without a dwarven axe or chimera's fang?).

I have read I think in these forums that the improved bashing property is only broken in that it does absolutely nothing unless you have the improved bashing feat (the vengeful protector should give a 20% chance of a bash without the feat and 40% with the feat, but I think at the moment it is 0% and 40% respectively). Is that correct?