Pale Master and Charisma Damage

[jjflanigan]

What options are available as a pale master to cleanse charisma stat damage that we receive while in an undead shroud? When I use lesser restoration potions I get the message "(Combat): You are immune to your lesser restoration." and it doesn't heal any of the charisma damage.

This became a huge issue as I was soloing The Dreaming Dark and very quickly got to "Helpless" due to being unable to remove any of the charisma damage he lumps on regularly :(

[MrCow]

The only method for recovering attribute damage when undead is to wait 1 minute per point of damage. Another related issue for this particular problem is that undead are not immune to Mind Thrust, Nightmare Guard, Ego Whip, or other related psionics because they aren't specifically enchantment spells (even though undead are supposed to be immune to mind-afflicting effects regardless).

[jjflanigan]

The only method for recovering attribute damage when undead is to wait 1 minute per point of damage. Another related issue for this particular problem is that undead are not immune to Mind Thrust, Nightmare Guard, Ego Whip, or other related psionics because they aren't specifically enchantment spells (even though undead are supposed to be immune to mind-afflicting effects regardless).

Yuck...If they are going to allow things like that to affect us, we should be provided a way to restore ourselves from it as well. Unhealable stat damage is a huge burden in some quests.

[gurgar78]

The only method for recovering attribute damage when undead is to wait 1 minute per point of damage. Another related issue for this particular problem is that undead are not immune to Mind Thrust, Nightmare Guard, Ego Whip, or other related psionics because they aren't specifically enchantment spells (even though undead are supposed to be immune to mind-afflicting effects regardless).

Have you confirmed that stat damage falls off after 1 minute? Negative levels do not seem to fall off as they are supposed to.

Yesterday while doing Blockade Buster, I started on the left-most ship. The first thing I did was kill the Captain, who drained 4 levels from me during the course of killing him. Obviously, being energy drained, I realized I had forgotten to activate my lich form. I activated and proceeded to complete the quest. After I had finished and was finishing out, I noticed that I hadn't regenerated a single level during the entire quest. I was still at -4 levels.

[djsonar919]

Have you confirmed that stat damage falls off after 1 minute? Negative levels do not seem to fall off as they are supposed to.



I always thought neg levels fell off after 5 minutes instead of 1 minute.

[MrCow]

Have you confirmed that stat damage falls off after 1 minute?

Confirmed, courteous of Kai-Teng.


Negative levels do not seem to fall off as they are supposed to.

Negative levels are different from attribute damage. Undead are wholly immune to changes in negative levels (both in suffering more or recovering from some).


I always thought neg levels fell off after 5 minutes instead of 1 minute.

Negative levels wear out at a rate of 1 level per 2 minutes.

[Lithic]

The only method for recovering attribute damage when undead is to wait 1 minute per point of damage. Another related issue for this particular problem is that undead are not immune to Mind Thrust, Nightmare Guard, Ego Whip, or other related psionics because they aren't specifically enchantment spells (even though undead are supposed to be immune to mind-afflicting effects regardless).

You probably tested it already, but can you use a heal spell to get rid of ability damage, or does undead form prevent casting it on yourself completely?

How about panacea?

[RioRussell]

you always have the option of toggling out of undead mode, using lesser restore pots, and going back into undead mode. costly at 100sp a pop, but until this bug is fixed, it works...

rio

[Cauthey]

This became a huge issue as I was soloing The Dreaming Dark and very quickly got to "Helpless" due to being unable to remove any of the charisma damage he lumps on regularly :(

Wait...you can become "helpless" for carrying a Charisma score of 0? What, do you smell so bad, look so ugly, and blather on so repulsively that you can't find the will to continue on?

:D

That CANNOT be WAI. LOL! :D

[MrCow]

You probably tested it already, but can you use a heal spell to get rid of ability damage, or does undead form prevent casting it on yourself completely?

How about panacea?

Immune to Heal is from a friendly source. I haven't tried Panacea.

[voodoogroves]

It makes my Eye of the Titan solo elite runs very very long. I can confirm it will go away after time, but I'd love to be able to get rid of it, if you can suffer it.

[slimkj]

Had also noted this and found it silly. I assumed I'd be immune to stat draining effects as the walking dead...

[MrCow]

I assumed I'd be immune to stat draining effects as the walking dead...

Undead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType) are immune to physical attribute damage (STR, DEX, and CON) and ability drain. Technically, the undead should be prone to mental attribute damage (WIS, INT, and CHA), such as from Tchurvul's Kukri (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Weapons/TchurvulsKukri.jpg).

[TheDearLeader]

The only method for recovering attribute damage when undead is to wait 1 minute per point of damage. Another related issue for this particular problem is that undead are not immune to Mind Thrust, Nightmare Guard, Ego Whip, or other related psionics because they aren't specifically enchantment spells (even though undead are supposed to be immune to mind-afflicting effects regardless).

Are we absitively posilutely sure about this?

Actually, two related lines of query.
Mindless undead, granted, are given immunity to mind-affecting.. effects. That makes sense, there's no mind there to affect. What about Vampires, or other sentient undead types? Not in DDO, but in P&P, are they granted full immunity?

The undead type grants this immunity; however they are considered "augmented humanoids", as well. Perhaps some discrepancy there? Perhaps Psionics do not fall under this immunity, because their introduction to 3.5e happened post-production of the Monster Manual?

And then, what about Pale Master? It doesn't *make* a Pale Master undead, it just bestows some traits for a short period of time. Therefore, it is imperfect. Perhaps this is a fully intended imperfection/shortcoming?

[MrCow]

Are we absitively posilutely sure about this?

By the book they should be based on the sections for Undead Traits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType), Ego Whip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/egoWhip.htm), and Mind Thrust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindThrust.htm):


Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).


Mind Thrust
Telepathy [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Psion/wilder 1
Display: Auditory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Power Resistance: Yes
Power Points: 1

You instantly deliver a massive assault on the thought pathways of any one creature, dealing 1d10 points of damage to it.


Ego Whip
Telepathy [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Psion/wilder 2
Display: Auditory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. +10 ft./level)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half; see text
Power Resistance: Yes
Power Points: 3

Your rapid mental lashings assault the ego of your enemy, debilitating its confidence. The target takes 1d4 points of Charisma damage, or half that amount (minimum 1 point) on a successful save. A target that fails its save is also dazed for 1 round.

As far as the other major question asked:


And then, what about Pale Master? It doesn't *make* a Pale Master undead, it just bestows some traits for a short period of time.

This argument can go both ways.

On one hand the clause is added that "You are considered undead rather than your original type for the purposes of most effects", so Turbine can do as they please.

On the other hand, your actual type does become undead. Undead Bane works on you and your previous race doesn't count for bane weaponry. Sunburst and Searing Light do full damage to you. A Warforged can't be rusted by a rust monster when using an undead shroud. Many other examples can probably be pulled out as well in support that you pretty much are made undead.

[LeLoric]

Harm will restore up to 100 points of stat damage to you just like a heal would to a normal character. The circle of hatred from abbot is a good way to combat this.

[MrCow]

I had completely forgotten that Harm acted like Heal (even beyond the HP recovery) on undead. Thank you for stating that. :)

[voodoogroves]

Harm will restore up to 100 points of stat damage to you just like a heal would to a normal character. The circle of hatred from abbot is a good way to combat this.

OMG***BBQ? Harm restores stat damage? Really?

[sigtrent]

That CANNOT be WAI. LOL! :D

Thats the D&D mechanic. In DDO they are actually less nasty than in D&D where you often end up dead or a vegetable of some kind.

Charisma is also kind of like "life force" so at 0 charisma you are Unconscious in D&D.

[Snowborne]

I wanted to raise the question of PMs stabilizing while incapacitated, yet forever being stuck at a negative hp, even with Death Aura working.

[TheDearLeader]

I wanted to raise the question of PMs stabilizing while incapacitated, yet forever being stuck at a negative hp, even with Death Aura working.

Then start a thread about it.

[zrandrews]

Wait...you can become "helpless" for carrying a Charisma score of 0? What, do you smell so bad, look so ugly, and blather on so repulsively that you can't find the will to continue on?

:D

That CANNOT be WAI. LOL! :D

Yea, I'm pretty sure you become a veggie. Like, you no longer have a personality or desire to do anything.

[Junts]

The only method for recovering attribute damage when undead is to wait 1 minute per point of damage. Another related issue for this particular problem is that undead are not immune to Mind Thrust, Nightmare Guard, Ego Whip, or other related psionics because they aren't specifically enchantment spells (even though undead are supposed to be immune to mind-afflicting effects regardless).


I recently leveled with a friend's pale master, and what he discovered is that the Harm spell is functionally identical to heal for undead, including the stat damage removal.

For the cha damage quests, he used his Circle of Hatred with the harm clickies as a restoration clicky. It was very effective.

[Lithic]

Yea, I'm pretty sure you become a veggie. Like, you no longer have a personality or desire to do anything.

It means you are so depressed and withdrawn that you would stop breathing if you could care enough to try to kill yourself. But you can't care enough to do that, which is why 0 charisma does not kill you in PnP. ;)

[hityawithastick]

When you hit 0 Charisma, your personality has been thoroughly crushed, and you fall into a zombielike stupor.

So on the one hand, pale masters most definitely still have personalities when they're undead--which is why they don't immediately start destroying their own party (awesome as that would be).

But on the other hand--undead are supposedly immune to mind-affecting powers, possibly because their minds work in a wholly alien fashion.

So I have no preference.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Now if only they would make a negative energy version of lesser restoration potions :D

[jjflanigan]

Harm will restore up to 100 points of stat damage to you just like a heal would to a normal character. The circle of hatred from abbot is a good way to combat this.

Holy cow (not MrCow) that rocks...now if I can just find a reliable source for Harm scrolls! :)