Post u8: Epic Scrolls

[Acehole31]

So, you're running an epic, truckin' along through the mass holds and 8 other people swinging away, and everything is going just swimmingly. Heals are flowing, spells are flying, killcount's racking up. Suddenly, a notice pops up: You put the Scroll of ________ in your backpack! Hey, that's the cool feature Turbine added in update 8, Epic scrolls popping straight into a random party member's inventory. Cool! Your party members congratulate you and you move on to the next mob. Eventually, you complete, collect your token, your end reward...Oh, but what about that scroll? d100 right?

Wait a second...Doesn't the game do that FOR you now, by placing it into a RANDOM party member's inventory? Isn't it redundant to roll on it?

This happened to me. I'm more than happy to roll on it/put it up for roll as per Epic Etiquette pre-u8. (I put it up for d20 for the 4 people who were still in party when someone asked about the scroll and I won it on a 20...lol.) My question is, isn't it completely redundant to randomize who gets an item when it's already randomized out to someone? Do we keep rolling? Do we stick with what the game says?

Personally, most people I've grouped with think as I do, that the game rolled it off to the inventory of whomever is GOING to get it. However, it seems some still think that it should be rolled on. I'd like some form of generalized consensus on the matter. I'm looking for solid opinions one way or the other.

[sirgog]

Anyone that tries to force you to put a scroll that dropped into your inventory up for roll is trying to cheat you. Deal with them exactly as you would if they told you in Shroud 'give me that Large Scale or I'll get my guild to blacklist you'.

[LookingForABentoBox]

I agree with what you're saying. Unfortunately I've come across a significant amount of people that disagree with us and it violates the need before greed etc etc. Hopefully people will come to see our correct point of view.

[MsEricka]

I am of the opinion that the server did the roll, that's why you got it. But people still insist upon rolling for it, including guildies.

Guess what, if you don't need it, then put it up for roll. Some people questioned this practice and stated people would just keep them to sell them. Get over it, there will always be greed over need. If you run with people you know then you know their alts and you know what gear they may need.

The bottom line, in my opinion it's my loot, don't try rolling on it unless I put it up for roll

[Acehole31]

Anyone that tries to force you to put a scroll that dropped into your inventory up for roll is trying to cheat you. Deal with them exactly as you would if they told you in Shroud 'give me that Large Scale or I'll get my guild to blacklist you'.

I can speak for the character and integrity of the person who brought up the scroll in the first place. I don't believe that was a case of them attempting to cheat me in any way. I think it's more like they're confused as to how the game changed and they simply think scrolls, regardless of the change in the game, should still be rolled on.

[sirgog]

I agree with what you're saying. Unfortunately I've come across a significant amount of people that disagree with us and it violates the need before greed etc etc. Hopefully people will come to see our correct point of view.

People don't apply need before greed to Shroud materials, but most TWF melees will require at least 5 supreme shards worth (2 Lit 2s or Min 2s and an Earthgrab HP item), while most non-melees can get by with 3 supreme shards worth at most (Conc-Opp and Earthgrab items, one HP, one SP).

[seskie1]

Maybe a group decision before the run starts, if there will be a additional roll or not. Majority consensus or not is up to the group.

[Lifespawn]

drops for you you won the roll if you don't need it you would not have rolled on it if it dropped the old way so you can put it up for roll if you want.

I don't see any problem this way and if anyone does that runs with me feel free not to do so.

[arjiwan]

How about it drops randomly on anyone's backpack and no notification given to any party members except yourself?

Then if you don't need it, tell the party, hey I got this scroll, wanna roll for it?

Is there any advantages for the party notification of scroll drop?

[Irinis]

I'm happy to accept and keep any scrolls that drop for me. They are tradeable for the scrolls I DO need. Putting a scroll for roll after already winning it is silly, but if you're running with people you know, being silly generous can be a good thing - when you can trust they will be silly generous to you too.

If you refuse to roll for/keep scrolls you don't need, what will you have to trade for the ones you do?

If everyone keeps scrolls, then everyone has scrolls to trade. VoilÃ*, problem solved.

[stoolcannon]

I'm happy to accept and keep any scrolls that drop for me. They are tradeable for the scrolls I DO need. Putting a scroll for roll after already winning it is silly, but if you're running with people you know, being silly generous can be a good thing - when you can trust they will be silly generous to you too.

If you refuse to roll for/keep scrolls you don't need, what will you have to trade for the ones you do?

If everyone keeps scrolls, then everyone has scrolls to trade. VoilÃ*, problem solved.

Everyone knows how greedy you are :)

I loot everything including a +4 int tome on my barb so I can use my zero haggle to sell it to the merchant in marketplace.

Or not. I'm way too generous, but hey I get treated well.

[Ilindith]

I would put the scroll up for roll if I don't need it, but if I do, with this new system, it's mine.

[Hendrik]

In a PUG - it's mine to do with as I see fit.

Guild run - Gonna share.

Already watched a melee foam at the mouth when he could not roll on my SoS Scroll that dropped for my caster.

Whats best about this new mechanic is the double standard shown by some;

What mine is mine and what's yours is mine if I want it.

[Beethoven]

The server rolling is not exactly the same as the pre-U8 standard of individual players rolling. Pre-U8 the most common standard was players only rolled on scrolls they needed/were actively looking for and passed on those they don't.

The server doesn't make that differentiation and the roll is more akin of everyone rolling for everything.

Way I see it the change fixed one thing (ninja-looting of scrolls while the rest of the party is still busy), but created a point of conflict on the other end as now there seem to be three opposing mindsets:

* scrolls ending up in my inventory are mine. End of story.
* a scroll I need ends up in my inventory, it's mine. I don't necessarily need it, it's put up for roll.
* all scrolls should be put up for roll regardless if the server already made a roll.

Personally, I see the largest problem as that there are points to be made for either solution; there is not necessarily a right or wrong way - just different opinions. So, it adds one another thing a group needs to agree on what, in case of pugs, can be challenging enough.

Myself I will stick with what I find closest to the pre-U8 change; a scroll I need ends up in my inventory I will treat it as if I won the roll (because technically I did). It's a scroll I would not normally have rolled for, I will put it up for roll.

[Solmage]

I'm just visiting, but I had the following thoughts on the matter: If you agree before the quest starts to pool all the scrolls and roll on them need before greed old school style at the end of the quest, then that's what you all should do.

Otherwise, the game already rolled for you. Put it up for roll if you have no use for it, otherwise, gratz.

[Solmage]

* all scrolls should be put up for roll regardless if the server already made a roll.

Personally, I see the largest problem as that there are points to be made for either solution; there is not necessarily a right or wrong way - just different opinions.

Respectfully, I think this is one of the very few times when there is factual right and wrong, and opinions don't mean anything. A scroll, like a large scale, has an actual value, regardless of whether you were going to craft or not.

*Demanding* all scrolls be put up for roll is akin to demanding all shroud ingredients should be put up for roll at the end of the shroud. *Asking* to do this however is perfectly ok, and if all people agree on it, you run with it.

In essence: Asking before the quest to roll on all scrolls: Ok. Demanding after the quest without prior agreement? Not ok.

[Quikster]

If it ends up in your inventory, its yours. Bottom line. At that point you do like you would anything else. If you want to give it away, thats your right.

[rest]

If it ends up in your inventory, its yours. Bottom line. At that point you do like you would anything else. If you want to give it away, thats your right.

This.



I generally run epics one of 3 ways: solo scroll farming, guild runs or runs with my really good friends.

Solo: obviously I'll get the scrolls.
Guild/friend runs: if it's a scroll I need, I'll keep it. Otherwise I'll put it up for a roll. If it's something I'll use eventually, but if someone is looking for only that to finish their item, it's all theirs.

[Kronik]

If it ends up in your inventory, its yours. Bottom line. At that point you do like you would anything else. If you want to give it away, thats your right.

Well put, I couldnt have said it better myself!

[Cianos_Fanas]

Is there an actual system roll that happens? For instance, when you attack it rolls to see if you actually hit and it shows up in your log. Does the system do a roll of the dice on a scroll and does it show up in the log? Everyone keeps saying "system roll" so I just wanted to know if that's what really happens.

[Quikster]

Is there an actual system roll that happens? For instance, when you attack it rolls to see if you actually hit and it shows up in your log. Does the system do a roll of the dice on a scroll and does it show up in the log? Everyone keeps saying "system roll" so I just wanted to know if that's what really happens.

I dont think it shows up in the log, but neither does chest loot.

[Cianos_Fanas]

So you're saying there is a hidden system roll that happens when you pop a chest to see what you are going to get? Why not just put the scrolls in a chest then and maybe people would stop the whole debate.

[Dragonhyde]

So you're saying there is a hidden system roll that happens when you pop a chest to see what you are going to get? Why not just put the scrolls in a chest then and maybe people would stop the whole debate.

That never stopped the debate over raid loot and who deserves it more :)
Personally if it is a pug I would like to be told before hand if they want to double roll on the scrolls so I can decide whether or not I want to stay /shrug
Most likely would leave because i have had a lot of pugs telling me I can't roll on scrolls because they don't see me on my nonbard toons :P

[Acehole31]

Thank you for all the responses. I wanted to get an idea of what most people thought of the whole thing, and it seems most agree with me.

[ddoer]

Anyone that tries to force you to put a scroll that dropped into your inventory up for roll is trying to cheat you. Deal with them exactly as you would if they told you in Shroud 'give me that Large Scale or I'll get my guild to blacklist you'.

i have to +1 to u

[zrandrews]

This topic is in every server, and as with every loot sharing thread boils down to a few things:

1) It is in my inventory, and you can't make me do anything with it I don't want
B. It is impolite to demand a roll for something that isn't yours, but asking is ok.
third: people don't agree about what is right.

I know when I'm going to put something up for a roll, I say it before I go into the dungeon, and ignore anyone that tells me I have to put it up to a roll if I want to come. Because, really, if someone tells me I have to put my loot to a roll or be blacklisted, then I don't care if I get to group with them again. I have a goup of people who's opinion I care about, and know I can count on them to group with me. I call them guildies :D

*various +1's spread around.