Turn undeads

[Timmeke123456]

Hi all!

Im playing a L11 pure healbot atm & was wondering how many uses of turn nudead/radiant bursts a decent cleric should have.

I started with 10Char, wearing a +5Char ring & I'm at 12 Bursts after rest.

Cheers!

[RandomKeypress]

Maxing out your turns usually costs you elsewhere. I'd say a better question is how often do you run out of turns? As a radiant servant, you'll be using them to heal (even more so at level 12), so if you're running low on mana and turns then you might benefit from more. Or you could benefit from more mana.
Get as many as you need and can afford. 12 turns strikes me as pretty reasonable, but it would depend on your playstyle.

[Arkadios]

Sometimes depends on race also, i know my level 15clr/1ftr Dwarf only has 10 turns at level 16 and using aura and occaisonal burts he has more than enough, he could have 5 and it would be more than i'd use because it regenerates.

Of course my dwarf started with 8 cha(added two points to it) and is sitting at 14 cha atm (+4item,+2enchance) and i've got a few enhancements for extra turns, i don't see the need for anything higher. :)

[Flavilandile]

Both my LVL 16 Elven Cleric and my LVL 20 Elven Cleric have 18 Turns. ( yes of the hjeelbot kind... on a proactive way, they love to command and destruct things )
They are not built exactly the same. ( more charisma on the 16 one )

I find that any value between 10 and 20 is more than decent for endgame ( even epic, even if it's more draining ),
as if you go Radiant they regenerate over time, so unless you dump them on a wizard for mana,
you always have some around. ( and at worst you just need to wait a bit to get one back )

[PNellesen]

My 17/1 cleric/fighter has anywhere between 9 and 14 (depending on CHA items/buffs) and as others have said I find anything over 10 is usually enough for most aura/burst and DV needs. I'll normally try to max out at the start of a quest, then as I use them up I'll swap out my CHA item(s) for some other gear until I hit a shrine.

[Steveohio]

I disagree with the posters here.
I find that you can never have enough turn undeads.

I'm currently lvl 13 (9cleric,3monk,1fighter) and have 20 turns. Empowered, Emp Healed, and Maximized.

In any quest I run with undead, they get used up.
In any quest I run that is above my level, they get used up.
In any quest I run with a few squishy melees, they get used up.
Any quest or raid I run as the main healer, they get used up.

I very rarely run out of sp, and almost never use it for healing.

After extensive playtime, I feel that Charisma, not wisdom makes a cleric more powerful. When spell DC doesnt matter(IE healing) Extra wisdom only adds a few points of sp. Whereas, a fully feated, heal burst is worth, what 90sp?

An extra chr bonus, in effect adds more healing potential than the SP gained from an extra wis bonus. 90~ vs 28. http://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_point

Extra Turning is a very underrated feat. The potential DPS contribution against undead can exceed 10-20k. In a raid setting, the healing contributed to 12 people is roughly, 3000+ HP per burst.

Thats just heal bursts there.
Shall we look at divine might 3, for +6 additional damage for a minute, or healing aura now?

Its very easy to see why a Charisma based cleric actually has better healing AND dps potential.
Its also easy to see why you want as many of them as you can, Especially if you are a battlecleric.

[Sarisa]

As an offensive caster, 10 is usually enough for me. In raids, I generally only run out toward the end of VoD, where I use scrolls, burst, and the aura to conserve SP before the second round of Orthons and bats. In normal questing, I generally would only run out in extreme undead areas, like solo'ing down in the Subterrane, or maybe some wings of Litany.

On a battle cleric with minimal wisdom and using Divine Might, I would say more is better.

[phalaeo]

My capped Clonk has 11
My level 19 Cleric (Clr 18/Pal 1) has 13

I rarely run out.
Hope that helps!

[phalaeo]

I disagree with the posters here.
I find that you can never have enough turn undeads.

I'm currently lvl 13 (9cleric,3monk,1fighter) and have 20 turns. Empowered, Emp Healed, and Maximized.

In any quest I run with undead, they get used up.
In any quest I run that is above my level, they get used up.
In any quest I run with a few squishy melees, they get used up.
Any quest or raid I run as the main healer, they get used up.

I very rarely run out of sp, and almost never use it for healing.

After extensive playtime, I feel that Charisma, not wisdom makes a cleric more powerful. When spell DC doesnt matter(IE healing) Extra wisdom only adds a few points of sp. Whereas, a fully feated, heal burst is worth, what 90sp?

An extra chr bonus, in effect adds more healing potential than the SP gained from an extra wis bonus. 90~ vs 28. http://ddowiki.com/page/Spell_point

Extra Turning is a very underrated feat. The potential DPS contribution against undead can exceed 10-20k. In a raid setting, the healing contributed to 12 people is roughly, 3000+ HP per burst.

Thats just heal bursts there.
Shall we look at divine might 3, for +6 additional damage for a minute, or healing aura now?

Its very easy to see why a Charisma based cleric actually has better healing AND dps potential.
Its also easy to see why you want as many of them as you can, Especially if you are a battlecleric.

That's great if you want a purely Healbot at mid/end game. The problem is that a Cleric that just heals and does neither casting nor melee is basically a hireling and is piking in my book.

You bring up using bursts in raid situations.

For most Clerics, getting close enough to the melees on a raid boss is not an option. Getting up and personal with Harry is not going to work for about 90% of the Clerics I've seen in pugs- sure, it can work with Evasion Clerics and better geared/played toons, but that's 10% in my book.

I think recommending higher base CHA clerics to newer players for their first Cleric builds is a giant mistake. Go with the Base 10 or lower for your first Cleric, learn how to cast and learn the spells available to you first. Relying on bursts is a one-trick pony.

[Timmeke123456]

That's great if you want a purely Healbot at mid/end game. The problem is that a Cleric that just heals and does neither casting nor melee is basically a hireling and is piking in my book.



I do try to use greater command a lot but it never works :( not even when holding a Spel Pen 5 scepter :(

[Culver.Civello]

My Level 15 cleric has about 10 turns (12 with cha shrine ship buff)... and that is more than enough.

[RandomKeypress]

I do try to use greater command a lot but it never works :( not even when holding a Spel Pen 5 scepter :(

Are they resisting or is their spell resistance kicking in? If it's resisting, you want Wis and the heighten feat. Spell penetration is for spell resistance only.

[Sarisa]

I do try to use greater command a lot but it never works :( not even when holding a Spel Pen 5 scepter :(

If it's not hitting due to spell resistance, you'll see a blue "shield" show up around the mob. If it's hitting but they are saving, you'd see a light blue hexagon over the mobs head.

Greater Command has a will save, so it works best on big dumb brutes like you find in most Gianthold quests. It works well on earth elementals too. Using it on casters really won't work that well.

Post Gianthold, unless you're trying to hit earth elementals and trolls, you tend to need the Heighten metamagic like Random said in order to get it to stick.

Don't really bother with command in Amrath, both the spell resistance (what you need your Spell Pen scepter for) and their saves (due to EVERYTHING in Amrath having permanent GH) will be too high, even with Heighten, to warrant spending the SP on. Use a summoned Air elemental and Holy Aura (no-save AoE blindness) for crowd control there.

[Karlak]

WIS+heighten that should be, for a cleric improving his DCs.