Minotaurs die and tempers flare

[Jacket]

Okay, so I don't normally do this but I have to vent some. SO:

Playing on my Dwarf 10/4 Ranger/Fighter, doing "Frame Work" on hard, a fun quest.

I join up and it is taking a while to fill so it is decided that we will start with one short. We begin by clearing around the outside, not really my favorite strategy, and someone joins. There is some complaining about being late and taking an XP penalty but he is assured that this is a long quest and it will go away. Some grumbling ensues. We all get together and buff then a short time later the party splits up. Now, I'm not really sure what happened, but soon enough there are cries for help and a whole heaping pile of dire wolves. A big fight and I am the only one left alive. I gather up all the stones and head off to the cleared outside shrine. While I am running it is hot and heavy with the accusations and snide comments.

At this point, several things become clear. One; the healer isn't very good. I think he was new or something. Two; the monk has a very elitist attitude and has found a kindred spirit in the rogue. Finally, I thought I had at least one more cure wand but I don't; I am totally out of consumables and we haven't even got inside yet.

The whining simmers down. It is decided that the rogue, the monk and the TR'ed bard (who wasn't really saying much and just doing his thing) will use a ballista to sneak inside and the rest of us will wait. Almost immediately there is a warning bell so killing time is upon us. Since heals won't really be forthcoming, I make the most of trip and stunning blow as well as charming or freezing wargs when I can. If the melee is getting too heavy I jump on top of something and many shot until it is on cool down. Casters first, etc. you know the drill.

Things are going fairly well, the inside shrine has been cleared and we head across the bridge to where the boss and the seers are. Suddenly, everyone decides it is now time to split up. Quite shortly there are three warning bells worth of minotaurs and all three seers. Everyone dies but me and I am down to maybe forty HPs. Party chat is now full of how to play ones character correctly and how much a dumb noob everyone is. I manage to retrieve three stones from the minotaur pile and get them back to the shrine but on my second trip I am killed by an eighty point lighting bolt at the foot of the long bridge with two stones, the third being the rogue who died off somewhere I couldn't get to. A rescue attempt is mounted and eventually everyone is at least back at full health if super low on spell points.

Back into the mess we go, duck, dodge, dive and dodge. Minotaurs are killed and several die (the haughty rogue to the trap, to my amusement) but now we are at the final boss. We rush in, I kill the orc healer and the most of the mino healers, the monk dies and rage quits then I drag the remaining two bosses back to the shrine. I die twice trying to kite them there and then hit upon a new plan. I run to the other shrine and then kite them along the ridge which gives me enough time to type out what I am doing. The bard comes out to help and since I'm doing all the kiting he can ask for help. The rogue states that he isn't coming because when he ranges he gets agro. I am too busy to tell him what I think about that. The rest are too busy looting the now minotaur-less city. The chieftain is slain and we start in on the troll caster but then come to the decision that its just not worth it with just the two of us and lose him in the woods. Now we just have to kill something that isn't a minotaur but of course everything outside is already dead. I point out that the troll might count but no one listens and the quest is completed by the rogue who had been standing next to doris waiting for us to kill the chieftain.

I pop open the XP window to check the kill count.

Of the 184 monsters killed, I had killed 102 of them. The next highest was Miss Adventure with 25 (which you can really add to sorcs score giving him about 40-50) and then everyone else with less than 20.

Now, I don't have green steel anything and only 28 points to work with so it's not like I am uber geared or anything. It just strikes me that if you're going to go off on other people about how to play their respective characters at least try to back it up with SOMETHING. I am really talking about the rogue and the monk since everyone else was quietly competent or (in the case of the cleric) obviously new. Sure, it would have been nice if people had taken some time out from looting to help down the end boss but that, by itself, isn't much to complain about. To top it all off, while I was running back to get that the final chest the rogue went out of his way to circumvent the profanity filter (not that I have that on) and call everyone a dirty word. Then I got jumped by those panthers that spawn when the quest is completed and killed so I didn't even get to check for my armor (the whole reason I was doing it in the first place).

Honestly, despite the *****ing, I really had a good time in there but I just wish people would stop and think for a minute about what they say and how they look. Is feeling elitist and putting down others that much fun? Maybe I'm missing out...

EDIT: *I spell TEH BAD*

[k1ngp1n]

Is feeling elitist and putting down others that much fun?

Yes?

I kid, I kid!

The really good players (this is independent of gear/experience/hp counts or max-dps - I'm talking players, not characters - they're different) don't rage.

[rest]

Back into the mess we go, duck, dodge, dive and dodge.

Excellent reference! +1

[rocky0]

As I was reading your post, I could remember going through so many of the same things. It seems anymore that people would rather throw insults and nasty comments around than just play the game. I have been playing since early May and at first, I really enjoyed playing. Sadly, those feelings didn't last long.

Basically now with the exception of guildmates and one or two other people, I do not run in groups anymore. My main character is at level 18 and I do not think I will be able to get him higher because I can't bring myself to want to endure groups anymore. I have seen a big increase in game and also on the forums of an elitist mentality.

Basically, to me, it feels that the game has lost the fun it had. I only want to play the game and have fun and learn all there is, because I know there is so much I have not seen yet. So many people do nothing but say "Im better than you" and "my charatcer is uber great" etc etc. If you doubt this, watch general chat when the pvp'ers get going, (just one example.)

I understand that some people have some high end chartatcers but instead of using their knowledge to help those newer to the game or those, LIKE ME, who have no clue as to what they are doing, they choose to instead to have an attitude and insult rather than help.

I hope things do improve because the game can be so much fun but the main thing about the game is that it is designed for group play and ,again to me, that is exactly what is making the game no fun to play.

[TheDearLeader]

ZOMG You died what a N00B Reroll or better yet uninstall DDO!

lul, kidding aside...

Being a TR doesn't mean you're a good player. Actually, a big problem with people who have been around a while is overconfidence: I admit that I've had it happen to me a couple of times.

Also, that's not the easiest quest if people keep bumping up the dungeon alert. If that much was spawning at once, I'm sure you saw some fancy colors.

Don't dwell on it too much. Make sure you always have the best gear you can afford, have your own consumables, and don't pull too many mobs at once. You'll be fine.

btw, I've got a Bard around that level range, if you want to try knocking out some XP. He's a TR, though, so you may have already passed him >.>

[stoopid_cowboy]

Don't dwell on it too much.

To the OP this is the best advice I have seen yet.
I had a run real close to this last week. Unfortunately I rolled a 1 on a command save trying to gather stones and was pwned.
After my "/disgust quit" the party leader /tell'd me how I was "The worst player on Sarlona".
Do as I did, laugh it off! I then made my own group and ran it on elite without a single death. :D
Sometimes the challenges of joining random group and trying to work well together with random people is what makes this game great.

yuda :D

[stoolcannon]

Anyone that acts like that doesn't run with me again.

Another poster on these forums I run with called someone out for that behavior in party last week. The dude was going off on a caster who was struggling in a pug epic chrono (a very poorly constructed group I might add but hey it was 2am and optimal parties weren't an option). The caster had said he was new, had told us what his DC's were and been very up front. When the healer started in on him making negative comments she jumped all over him and he apologized. It was quite refreshing.

[Ilindith]

Being a TR doesn't mean you're a good player

I still suck after 3, true story.

[TheDearLeader]

I still suck after 3, true story.

Don't worry. You'll get there someday :D

[Jacket]

Hey thanks for all the post loves!

To the people that encouraged me: hooray! Honestly I wasn't making this post as a "OMFG F THIS IMMA GONNA QUIT" thing more as a "wow can you believe that $#1t" sorta thing. So yeah, I'm not quitting or even that annoyed, just one of those make you think moments. The toon that I was playing was an alt of an alt of an alt. I've been playing this game for a bit over a year and I still don't have a level 20 since I have horrible alt-itis. I've certainly been in worse pugs and even some more vocal pugs, but what struck me at the time was the huge difference between the vocal and the generally silent.

As far as the TR don't mean a thing posters: while you are certainly correct (and personal experience bears that out) in this particular instance the TR was the only other person that was completely on the same page as I was. I hardly even mention the sorc (who wasn't the TR, that was the bard) but he was really great, even going so far as thanking the group for sticking with it for the whole run just before arrogant rogue-jerk wrote some obscene garbage in the chat. Guys like that are the meat and cheese of a good pug. Not so amazing that I remember you but just awesome enough to do your job thoroughly.

A moment of silence for competent puggers.

In any case, I just thought I would share that little experience with yall and if anyone want to run "Frame Work" again on any difficulty, I'm still looking for the armor and my dwarf's name is "Lagerhead" and yes that mean I drink heavily when given the chance.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

LOL, what a classic pug story, I enjoyed every minute of the tale! I hardly ever have stories like these anymore, hubby and I always duo quests with personal clerics and avoid the drama. :D

[Rhev]

Ced group with me once I can reenact a good one for ya. ;)

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

Ced group with me once I can reenact a good one for ya. ;)

We had some good one didn't we??? Not naming any names, lol.

[ToKu]

I have never understood the point and blame response I see so often in online games, the BEST you can hope for is that they do not respond at all, but quite often you get the knee jerk retaliation which makes things worse.

When I am running groups or raids and something goes wrong, and fingers start being pointed I tell everyone to calm down, using my grown up voice if I have to... I then determine what the exact problem was and the best way to solve it that does not involve berating someone. Its quicker and less prone to future similar mistakes.

[Zenako]

More often than not, those players who protray themselves as "elites" and comment down to everyone else, are in fact trying to preemptively shift the blame for failure even before it occurs. You know the type. "Every bleeping PUG i get in has some bleep bleep noobs who end up making us fail the quest..."....mmm what/who I wonder was the common denominator in all those failed pugs...:D

A real elite player more often than not, lets their character do the talking. Kill the mobs, owning the quest, doing all the right things and more. They will be effective and efficient with all they do.

What many players still fail to realize is how much the challenge bumps between Casual, then Normal, then Hard and ultimately Elite. If you are getting carried along the way, you might never notice, it is only when you are having to bear some of the load that those with shortcomings go boom...or do the soulstone dance.

Due to DA, Framework would be a very challenging quest if the group splits up and is mostly melee. Ouch!. and frankly DA is PERFECTLY resonable for this quest more than almost any other in the game!

[TigrisMorte]

Okay, so I don't normally do this but I have to vent some. SO:...
sorry to criticize but when venting your supposed to tell us how 'cpert uber l33ts you are, explain in detail what N00BZ all others are, especially lay into any one new (particularly a healer that may have been slow with the HEELZ!), shout that you needed none of them any way, and name them so you get banned.
At least that how I have seen the rants go. Your tale almost comes off as a plea for teamwork and consideration of others. I think there is a vent101 run by some 12 year old on one of the chat channels if it would help.:rolleyes:

(great PUG attitude, BTW. Nice to see someone who can be mature about it.)

[Mighty_Bozo]

Another reason why I don't pug so much anymore... I hate voice shouting, it ruins the music I'm listening while playing =P

Seriously, I don't get it, there's been too much more raging ppl nowadays or is it just a bad impression I've been having?

[issiana]

+1 for awesome story telling :)


As for puging, i do it because of those stories. sure i can solo the game no issues, but the fun is in those misadventures just as much as it is in the super quick wins.

besides, someone has to take the time toteach the new folks, or else we are all doomed in the raids to come.

[NinjaCereal]

Seriously, I don't get it, there's been too much more raging ppl nowadays or is it just a bad impression I've been having?

I've noticed it too.
Either things have steadily declined over the past several months, or it just gets worse the higher your character gets in the game. (I'm thinking it's the first one)

Some of my worst experiences with this sort of thing have been in the Subterrane raids. The leader of the party for one of the HoX runs I was in stuck the new guy on tank healing duty twice, then cussed him out and rage quit when the party wiped.

What happened to the times when pugs were fun?

[MorningStarSE]

Okay, so I don't normally do this but I have to vent some. SO:

Playing on my Dwarf 10/4 Ranger/Fighter, doing "Frame Work" on hard, a fun quest.

I join up and it is taking a while to fill so it is decided that we will start with one short. We begin by clearing around the outside, not really my favorite strategy, and someone joins. There is some complaining about being late and taking an XP penalty but he is assured that this is a long quest and it will go away. Some grumbling ensues. We all get together and buff then a short time later the party splits up. Now, I'm not really sure what happened, but soon enough there are cries for help and a whole heaping pile of dire wolves. A big fight and I am the only one left alive. I gather up all the stones and head off to the cleared outside shrine. While I am running it is hot and heavy with the accusations and snide comments.

At this point, several things become clear. One; the healer isn't very good. I think he was new or something. Two; the monk has a very elitist attitude and has found a kindred spirit in the rogue. Finally, I thought I had at least one more cure wand but I don't; I am totally out of consumables and we haven't even got inside yet.

The whining simmers down. It is decided that the rogue, the monk and the TR'ed bard (who wasn't really saying much and just doing his thing) will use a ballista to sneak inside and the rest of us will wait. Almost immediately there is a warning bell so killing time is upon us. Since heals won't really be forthcoming, I make the most of trip and stunning blow as well as charming or freezing wargs when I can. If the melee is getting too heavy I jump on top of something and many shot until it is on cool down. Casters first, etc. you know the drill.

Things are going fairly well, the inside shrine has been cleared and we head across the bridge to where the boss and the seers are. Suddenly, everyone decides it is now time to split up. Quite shortly there are three warning bells worth of minotaurs and all three seers. Everyone dies but me and I am down to maybe forty HPs. Party chat is now full of how to play ones character correctly and how much a dumb noob everyone is. I manage to retrieve three stones from the minotaur pile and get them back to the shrine but on my second trip I am killed by an eighty point lighting bolt at the foot of the long bridge with two stones, the third being the rogue who died off somewhere I couldn't get to. A rescue attempt is mounted and eventually everyone is at least back at full health if super low on spell points.

Back into the mess we go, duck, dodge, dive and dodge. Minotaurs are killed and several die (the haughty rogue to the trap, to my amusement) but now we are at the final boss. We rush in, I kill the orc healer and the most of the mino healers, the monk dies and rage quits then I drag the remaining two bosses back to the shrine. I die twice trying to kite them there and then hit upon a new plan. I run to the other shrine and then kite them along the ridge which gives me enough time to type out what I am doing. The bard comes out to help and since I'm doing all the kiting he can ask for help. The rogue states that he isn't coming because when he ranges he gets agro. I am too busy to tell him what I think about that. The rest are too busy looting the now minotaur-less city. The chieftain is slain and we start in on the troll caster but then come to the decision that its just not worth it with just the two of us and lose him in the woods. Now we just have to kill something that isn't a minotaur but of course everything outside is already dead. I point out that the troll might count but no one listens and the quest is completed by the rogue who had been standing next to doris waiting for us to kill the chieftain.

I pop open the XP window to check the kill count.

Of the 184 monsters killed, I had killed 102 of them. The next highest was Miss Adventure with 25 (which you can really add to sorcs score giving him about 40-50) and then everyone else with less than 20.

Now, I don't have green steel anything and only 28 points to work with so it's not like I am uber geared or anything. It just strikes me that if you're going to go off on other people about how to play their respective characters at least try to back it up with SOMETHING. I am really talking about the rogue and the monk since everyone else was quietly competent or (in the case of the cleric) obviously new. Sure, it would have been nice if people had taken some time out from looting to help down the end boss but that, by itself, isn't much to complain about. To top it all off, while I was running back to get that the final chest the rogue went out of his way to circumvent the profanity filter (not that I have that on) and call everyone a dirty word. Then I got jumped by those panthers that spawn when the quest is completed and killed so I didn't even get to check for my armor (the whole reason I was doing it in the first place).

Honestly, despite the *****ing, I really had a good time in there but I just wish people would stop and think for a minute about what they say and how they look. Is feeling elitist and putting down others that much fun? Maybe I'm missing out...

EDIT: *I spell TEH BAD*

Pug are random so you never know (unless you know some people in the said pug. I had no problem for months. Last elistist/bad player issue happened 1y ago.


Another reason why I don't pug so much anymore... I hate voice shouting, it ruins the music I'm listening while playing =P

I finally setted up my sound system so now my headset and winamp are not from the same output so i can enjoy the music when playing. It would be really bad to hear shouting over the music.

Seriously, I don't get it, there's been too much more raging ppl nowadays or is it just a bad impression I've been having?

I don't know, I haven't fall on raging people lately.. Though, I guess Shroud pug doesn't count.



+1 for awesome story telling :)

Once in a while, these story are entertaining. Forums aren't made for drama ?!?

As for puging, i do it because of those stories. sure i can solo the game no issues, but the fun is in those misadventures just as much as it is in the super quick wins.

I prefer to do it for the xp and the super quick wins. Though we never know when misadventure will hit.

besides, someone has to take the time toteach the new folks, or else we are all doomed in the raids to come.

Oh noes.. We're Doooommmmmeeddd !!!11!1!eleven!!1!1!oneone!!!1!11

Just kidding



I don't really care, though the "matante" part of myself wish its dose of drama.. Please OP pm the names :P

IBTL

[zrandrews]

A good example of how the player's ability matters more then the characters abilities.

TR < player skill
Twinked < player skill

Also, I suspect that the abundance of anit-social behavior in PUGs and the general hugger-mugger that goes on is because the skilled, fun to play with people get grabbed by a Guild early, and then rapidly find other people of like mind to group with, and all the undesireables* are left to drift in PUG land, sad, alone, and angry.

I love when I'm in a PUG and I hear people yelling at me for doing it wrong, then when all is said and done, I'm on top with no deaths and highest kill count. Kobold Assault comes to mind, when I'm outside killing, and the rest of the party is spamming the rez shrine because they die trying to get on top of those huts.

*not all unguilded are inteded to be labled as undesireables, nor am i saying that all people that PUG are such.