I remember why I dont like pugs and stay within the guild.

[Alcamez]

So I join a Shroud today. Typical group. Really do not know anyone in group.

They start up with the usual speak up if you do not know your role.

Im thinking ok Im on WF wiz and another Human Wiz in group pk, finger, banshee mobs at portals in part one.

Well like always everyone running off in five diffrent directions killing stuff.

Then I hear from group "hey man stop nuking portal and kill mobs." and "Gee I thought we said everyone should know there roles."

Im thinking in my head hmm well I am assisting in taking down portals to expidite quest. Using archmage cheap force spells meh ok ill play there game.

So I go to next portals banshee, finge, pk next portal banshee finger pk hmm no more portals up bolt, blast, mm , chain missle portal. "Quit nuking the portal how many times we got to tell ya" ,and "gee the cleric is doing all the work" and man "I know people from his guild and they are usually not bad players."

Well to that Shroud group.. I am the worst player in this game and that guild. Man I am so sorry I disrupted your perfect Shroud. I hope you can get over it. Because I sleep very well.

Luckily we finished the Shroud without exhuastion or fatigue. I mean wow I really didnt know it stopped him from casting Delayed Blast Fireball and slowed him down.

Thanks for the group Alcaforged :)

PS I love you guys too We all do not play like you and I am sorry if I made your shroud run un enjoyable.

Here is a a list of all my characters and if you see them in group please tell me I will definitely drop from your group if I join.

Alcaforged, Alcasoul, Alcamonk, Alcarang, Alcamez, Alcamiz, Alcarian, Alcamyz, Ekim, Oblong, Platnumb, Mechroids

Thank you for your time ohh and please ignore this post if you were not in that group.

[redgod]

micro managed shroud groups are usally a sign of a weak leader with little experience i feel your pain.

[stoolcannon]

I couldn't care less what's going on in shroud, especially part 1. It takes a coordinated effort to fail that raid.

If someone is killing enough stuff that there aren't 20 portal keepers spawned all over the place then it's all good.


I do get irritated at the one jackass in every quest that can't just go hit the portal everyone else is hitting.

[Alcamez]

micro managed shroud groups are usally a sign of a weak leader with little experience i feel your pain.

I think what bothers me the most is that people are so critical of other people. I wish they could really listen to themselves when they play this VIDEO GAME. I deal with about 300 whiny 18-22 year olds from 0400 to about 1600 at least there the fighting is real.

[djsonar919]

I'd welcome you in my shroud runs. Feel free to blast the portals with whatever you want. The crew that I roll with, their glancing blows pretty much destory portal trogs. It's your sp do whatever you want. I mean you get a shrine after it anyway.

[ninjaeli]

i see nothing wrong with you nuking the portals they were just mad you were doing more Dps on them :P:D

[pSINNa]

i see nothing wrong with you nuking the portals they were just mad you were doing more Dps on them :P:D

^^ i'd say the nail has been hit on the head xD

[Bronko]

You are always welcome in my groups Al. You put up with my noobiness many times and your patience will always be remembered.

Forget that bad group and move along. If all the PUGs were that bad you and I would never have met. ;)

[Sirea]

I am the worst player in this game

Truer words have never been spoken :D :p

[sweez]

The crew that I roll with, their glancing blows pretty much destory portal trogs.

Noobs - real men twitch at portals and thus produce no glancing blows.

[krud]

I like pugs for all those reasons you just mentioned. They can be so interesting and entertaining (in a jerry springer kind of way). You'll remember that run way more than all your other 100x flawless completions. Good shroud runs? meh, wake me up when it's over. Bad pug shroud run? Now, that gets the blood flowing!

[Polarkin]

For casters I really don't care what you do as long as:

in part 1 we aren't getting orthons/devils/portal keepers

in part 2 if you are on the crystal you break it when the mobs are all dead

and I would prefer if you would carry waves of exhaustion.. even after they *fix* it, it will still result in less dps which saves my healers sp so I can melee more.

I also like it when casters put down an extended grease on the gold circles in part 3 so the stupid people that run thru them can get knocked down and hopefully die from the damage they do !

And the really good casters will cast grease and globe of invulnerability on Harry in part 4 right as the blades come in !

[DrenglisEU]

Honestly, all the shrouds I runned... never ever failed / wiped before part 4. That requires uber extra monterious skills to wipe in part 1. Even when we where running shroud train back in time on elite with loonies lvl14-16. I must be a really NooB player when I havent been able to fail/wipe in part 1

[Steen]

Man Alc I hope you let them have it! Funny thing is you might have more completions then all the others combined in the raid. I love booting pugs that tell me what I need when I'm building my raids. Like its the first time I'm building one LOL. Build your own raid if your going to tell me what I need.

[ELITE-Kaos]

So I join a Shroud today. Typical group. Really do not know anyone in group.

They start up with the usual speak up if you do not know your role.

Im thinking ok Im on WF wiz and another Human Wiz in group pk, finger, banshee mobs at portals in part one.

Well like always everyone running off in five diffrent directions killing stuff.

Then I hear from group "hey man stop nuking portal and kill mobs." and "Gee I thought we said everyone should know there roles."

Im thinking in my head hmm well I am assisting in taking down portals to expidite quest. Using archmage cheap force spells meh ok ill play there game.

So I go to next portals banshee, finge, pk next portal banshee finger pk hmm no more portals up bolt, blast, mm , chain missle portal. "Quit nuking the portal how many times we got to tell ya" ,and "gee the cleric is doing all the work" and man "I know people from his guild and they are usually not bad players."

Well to that Shroud group.. I am the worst player in this game and that guild. Man I am so sorry I disrupted your perfect Shroud. I hope you can get over it. Because I sleep very well.

Luckily we finished the Shroud without exhuastion or fatigue. I mean wow I really didnt know it stopped him from casting Delayed Blast Fireball and slowed him down.

Thanks for the group Alcaforged.



I think what bothers me the most is that people are so critical of other people. I wish they could really listen to themselves when they play this VIDEO GAME. I deal with about 300 whiny 18-22 year olds from 0400 to about 1600 at least there the fighting is real.

I do so love ironic posts

[Alcamez]

I do so love ironic posts

I found it quite funny but inspired to tell people. I just think of your forum name and it already gives me a percepion of your personality now that is Irony

[ToKu]

Devils Advocate here.. as a person who leads my pugs... I have seen some HORRIBLE pugs who have to be handheld. Now if I were the raid leader I wouldnt mind you nuking the portal so long as you were on top of keeping portals cleared AND were showing responsible SP managment.

I have sadly had mages who have unloaded thier entire pool before portal #4 and have had to as a cleric take over portal clearing because of it. If the arcanes SP pool is draining too fast too early or we have mobs up at portals I start to get on them.

[Chai]

It takes more work to fail part one than it does to complete it.

/trips and falls, accidentally completing part 1 of the Shroud in the process.

[Alcamez]

Devils Advocate here.. as a person who leads my pugs... I have seen some HORRIBLE pugs who have to be handheld. Now if I were the raid leader I wouldnt mind you nuking the portal so long as you were on top of keeping portals cleared AND were showing responsible SP managment.

I have sadly had mages who have unloaded thier entire pool before portal #4 and have had to as a cleric take over portal clearing because of it. If the arcanes SP pool is draining too fast too early or we have mobs up at portals I start to get on them.

Agree and I am sure they dont know me from **** or JANE but the party was in no jeopardy in Part 1 they even made the comment man we have alot of dps in this group due to the fact of the portals dropping fast. I think some people have not made a evo/ench specd AM to understand the spells they have for adding to dps for only 1,3,6,1,1 spell cost that does damage to portals. Granted during part 4 and 5 the true dps of the party showed against Harry. I heard one even make the comment gee Alc you might want to save your mana while in Part 4. They dont realize that I might have sp clickies and pots. Ohh due to taking two tiers of AM I only have 1750sp total.

I believe what made me actually post this was due to the fact that they said there are usually good people in my guild.

In my mind that statement read" Gee your guild is a bunch of lackies who will do what I say becuase me and my buddies are ubertastic.

Usually I would have gotten on Mic called them everything under the sun and probably made them rage quit.

Due to Turbines EULA and a couple of them being of the opposite sex I refrained finished quest and continued to level a TR.

[PCNONSENSE]

As someone who pugs 99% of my raids on Ghallanda, and that is a LOT. I am sorry you found one of the few ***hats!

I can vouch for our server that this truly is rare. I am surprised to read about all the jerks on other servers doing rediculous things and wonder if I am just lucky to avoid that type of stuff...

I am sure you have the name of this person/guild in memory and will avoid them in the future, and I definately dont blame you. I bet I can even guess the name of the guild...But, please dont think ALL pugs on this server are as noobish, because that is not the case.

I have absolutly no doubt that this server has the best pugs in the game, only due to the rediculous posts I read from the rest of the servers.

[ZzpxpzZ]

As far as The Shroud goes, I agree that it is too simple to require hand holding, particularly part 1. On the flip side however, regarding the statement about why people are so serious when it is just a game - the reason WHY people are strict on others is BECAUSE it is a game.

The only reason people are in a game is to have fun, and having idiots screwing up over and over on the most simple tasks is frustrating, not fun. Conversely, in real life, say, at work, I am much more tolerant of ignorance, since work is just work. You do what you need to and other than a steady paycheck, dont necessarily have specific expectations out of it. Sure, having a fun job is nice, and a goal to work towards, but its not reasonable to expect every day to be without frustrations at work, that is why you are being paid for it.

Because the sense of fun is different from person to person, not everyone is as harsh against ineptitude as others ma be, however, if that does not bother you, that is entirely your own preference, and you should not expect others to share them. I assure you, if other players failing bothered you (when it impacts you, of course) more than it does, you would take stricter steps towards minimizing others' fails or your exposure to them.

[grodon9999]

As someone who pugs 99% of my raids on Ghallanda, and that is a LOT. I am sorry you found one of the few ***hats!

I can vouch for our server that this truly is rare. I am surprised to read about all the jerks on other servers doing rediculous things and wonder if I am just lucky to avoid that type of stuff...

I am sure you have the name of this person/guild in memory and will avoid them in the future, and I definately dont blame you. I bet I can even guess the name of the guild...But, please dont think ALL pugs on this server are as noobish, because that is not the case.

I have absolutly no doubt that this server has the best pugs in the game, only due to the rediculous posts I read from the rest of the servers.

Agreed. I pug 99% of my shrouds, take the first 11 who hit the LFM, and haven't had a fail since U5.

[voodoogroves]

Same. PUG constantly. Some are annoying, only one fail (and that was the first one I did on my cleric, go figure).

[ToKu]

Agree and I am sure they dont know me from **** or JANE but the party was in no jeopardy in Part 1 they even made the comment man we have alot of dps in this group due to the fact of the portals dropping fast. I think some people have not made a evo/ench specd AM to understand the spells they have for adding to dps for only 1,3,6,1,1 spell cost that does damage to portals. Granted during part 4 and 5 the true dps of the party showed against Harry. I heard one even make the comment gee Alc you might want to save your mana while in Part 4. They dont realize that I might have sp clickies and pots. Ohh due to taking two tiers of AM I only have 1750sp total.

I believe what made me actually post this was due to the fact that they said there are usually good people in my guild.

In my mind that statement read" Gee your guild is a bunch of lackies who will do what I say becuase me and my buddies are ubertastic.

Usually I would have gotten on Mic called them everything under the sun and probably made them rage quit.

Due to Turbines EULA and a couple of them being of the opposite sex I refrained finished quest and continued to level a TR.

Yeah the raid leader in question overreacted, I see that quite a bit too. Especially from people who try and backseat raidlead.

The problem with DDO more then just about any other MMO out there is that with such freedom to build, you find that alot of pug leaders have no clear understanding of what each person is or at least should be capable of. They start pigeonholing people because its easier to catagorize people as "DPS / Heals / CC."

I am guilty of this myself and am usually open to letting a person prove thier build to me before rejecting them. Sometimes its paid off (the WF sorc evasion tank I met was pure awesome!) and sometimes not (6clr/6brd/8wiz anyone?).

I had a point and lost it...

[Ranmaru2]

Run I just got out of is a good reminder of thread title....53 min epic von 1...

Good idea: if using up top method, let the caster get up there first

Bad idea: go in arena before he's up top
--------------------------------------------
*caster now up top*

Good idea: Let firewall build aggro

Bad idea: Barbarian starts swinging right away and paladin goes smite happy right away

[painindaguild]

I think what bothers me the most is that people are so critical of other people.

nah its more that most people rely on 1 way to solve a quest and then get scared when they see some1 falling out of the pattern.

funny thing is that ur doin the exact same thing as them.

adaption is truly a great gift.

[lifestaker]

Shut up Alc. Next time you want to make a rank or a cry fest make a TL;DR/DILLIGAF version for me. I will not listen to you crying over spilled noobs. Not to mention the fact that I have to tell you how to play your game, or else you look like a complete fool all the time. You know what Alca, go to your room.


Thanks for your time and if you are not Alca please ignore this post. (http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:d-4zqCJPbh0JFM:http://www.jackhole.com/logo2-2.gif&t=1)

[Alcamez]

Shut up Alc. Next time you want to make a rank or a cry fest make a TL;DR/DILLIGAF version for me. I will not listen to you crying over spilled noobs. Not to mention the fact that I have to tell you how to play your game, or else you look like a complete fool all the time. You know what Alca, go to your room.


Thanks for your time and if you are not Alca please ignore this post. (http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:d-4zqCJPbh0JFM:http://www.jackhole.com/logo2-2.gif&t=1)

I know man I am constantly on these boards telling you and momma my problems. Ok I am over it. Everyone in this game is sweet and I am just an evil, underminding, inept, belly aching, overbearing, back seat pug player.

Ohh look Shroud up wooo hoo and my favorite people running it tell you guys about it later.


nah its more that most people rely on 1 way to solve a quest and then get scared when they see some1 falling out of the pattern.

funny thing is that ur doin the exact same thing as them.

adaption is truly a great gift.

Yeah I know I am also double stander geez. Can you all lay off me now :)

[Xaxx]

Agree and I am sure they dont know me from **** or JANE but the party was in no jeopardy in Part 1 they even made the comment man we have alot of dps in this group due to the fact of the portals dropping fast. I think some people have not made a evo/ench specd AM to understand the spells they have for adding to dps for only 1,3,6,1,1 spell cost that does damage to portals. Granted during part 4 and 5 the true dps of the party showed against Harry. I heard one even make the comment gee Alc you might want to save your mana while in Part 4. They dont realize that I might have sp clickies and pots. Ohh due to taking two tiers of AM I only have 1750sp total.

I believe what made me actually post this was due to the fact that they said there are usually good people in my guild.

In my mind that statement read" Gee your guild is a bunch of lackies who will do what I say becuase me and my buddies are ubertastic.

Usually I would have gotten on Mic called them everything under the sun and probably made them rage quit.

Due to Turbines EULA and a couple of them being of the opposite sex I refrained finished quest and continued to level a TR.


Holy flaming blue donkey **** on a stick alc, I'm gone for a week and your already buckling under the pressure from dealing with the noobs.....

Hmm your guildies are usually nice guys it seems........ guess he never ran with me huh?

Just remember alc, whenever the noobs tick you off, just calm down, and recite your mantra..... What would zad do?... What would zad do?.... What would zad do?.... Then tell them exactly what you think zad would say... as creativly as you think i might say it.

I aint gonna be around for a few months, your gonna have to keep up the standards of the guild.

Oh well, it'll be one less noob horor story for you to tell me whenever I stick my head back in. Of course considering how many we've had dealing with shroud pugs, I expect there to be plenty more.

Just remember, channel your inner zad at the noobs, you have it, I've seen it before, unleash the beast and you will feal much better... give into the dark side, my young padawan... lol


Yeah i know im probably not making to much sense right now... sleep, work, cata, sleep, work, cat, sleep, work, check the boards, make fun of alc, now back to cata... heh

[Lorz]

Now Alca...is this any way to be? I mean really, after those puggers worked so hard to save your life. You could have been killed in part 1 had you not been saved by their sage words of wisdom. I mean it was NORMAL....it was part 1....i just couldnt stand the thought of another needless death in part 1.

Lucky for you the leader was both strong and brave. He did not let you fail. He stood strong. He told you how to play your toon, you should be grateful. You should be on your knees begging for forgiveness for nearly failing part 1 of his shroud. You have no idea how hard it can be. You are just a worthless pile on who will never be able to carry his own weight or even the shadow of a great hero like the party leader.

Really.


/or i could be wrong...:)
//noobs Alca...you gotta love them......to death is how i prefer to love them myself :)
///come run with Thac0 we will make you wish you where still in pug with the leader telling you how to play...instead of one of us asking which you prefer for lube....blood or tears :) <====see now that pug doesnt seem so bad does it!

[Xaxx]

oh god hes right alc, it could have been thaco you were running with, i mean between just bronko and lormyr, dealing with that noobishness alone is enough to make most sane people run screaming for the hills...

[Lorz]

oh god hes right alc, it could have been thaco you were running with, i mean between just bronko and lormyr, dealing with that noobishness alone is enough to make most sane people run screaming for the hills...

Imagine 11 of us....not just 2.

/now that is scary, i agree

[Xaxx]

Imagine 11 of us....not just 2.

/now that is scary, i agree

lormyr has dragged me along on runs with 11 of you... yeah people say im screwed in the head.... see its things like that that make me screwed in the head

[Irinis]

Just got out of shroud that failed in part 2. And part 1 was an absolute horror, 3 arcanes and none of them knew the portal order. It's funny how it's easier to remember the order for running in advance of the party when I'm on my arcane NOT my bard. And when I asked the arcanes to come with me to learn the order, only one did... I asked another of the arcanes to be on crystal duty and when we killed the minibosses he was nowhere near the crystal. No idea if he actually firewalled it over the 5 next attempts to get the group to actually work TOGETHER. They needed more micromanaging than any other group I've seen on Ghallanda. It was really bad.

Leaders who have had a bunch of really, and I mean REALLY, bad pugs, are more likely to micromanage. How about you just reassure them that you already killed everything and have sp to spare instead of taking it as a personal insult that he didn't know you from Adam and didn't trust you to be doing your job? Do you have any idea how many noobs there actually are in this game now? lol.

It's like if you go into work and you take frequent ddo forum breaks, but you actually produce more work than your colleague who doesn't, but the boss keeps walking by your desk ONLY when you're actually reading the ddo forums and not working? You think the boss is gonna trust you when he sees you're not working? No, you're fired even though you did more work. Bosses, and raid leaders, have to judge quickly based on what they see happening. Even if it's wrong, it's part of the leadership role to come to a quick decision and make orders based on that.

[Alcamez]

Just got out of shroud that failed in part 2. And part 1 was an absolute horror, 3 arcanes and none of them knew the portal order. It's funny how it's easier to remember the order for running in advance of the party when I'm on my arcane NOT my bard. And when I asked the arcanes to come with me to learn the order, only one did... I asked another of the arcanes to be on crystal duty and when we killed the minibosses he was nowhere near the crystal. No idea if he actually firewalled it over the 5 next attempts to get the group to actually work TOGETHER. They needed more micromanaging than any other group I've seen on Ghallanda. It was really bad.

Leaders who have had a bunch of really, and I mean REALLY, bad pugs, are more likely to micromanage. How about you just reassure them that you already killed everything and have sp to spare instead of taking it as a personal insult that he didn't know you from Adam and didn't trust you to be doing your job? Do you have any idea how many noobs there actually are in this game now? lol.

It's like if you go into work and you take frequent ddo forum breaks, but you actually produce more work than your colleague who doesn't, but the boss keeps walking by your desk ONLY when you're actually reading the ddo forums and not working? You think the boss is gonna trust you when he sees you're not working? No, you're fired even though you did more work. Bosses, and raid leaders, have to judge quickly based on what they see happening. Even if it's wrong, it's part of the leadership role to come to a quick decision and make orders based on that.

Sorry for your bad run. I am sure you did have bad casters in the group.

Has far has your boss firing you, maybe you need a vacation.

There is many ways to play this game. Too merely put in your LFM "know your role" seems like the leader has a complex and does not know his.

To merely speculate about ones guild or critisize playing style bad form.

Me staying with guild and short manning and waisting pots seems like the best case scenerio rather than blowing up on mic and telling people where they can shove there micro managing abilities.

Making a desicion quickly is fine if your willing to lose something or accept the loss. Judging not so much if you convict the wrong person it leads to quick reaction, outcry, and people having little faith in the judge.

[Dissindra]

... Thank you for your time ohh and please ignore this post if you were not in that group.
too late :)
please, put that on top of the post, next time ^^

oh, and PUGs are the best this game has to offer :D

[Aaxeyu]

I do get irritated at the one jackass in every quest that can't just go hit the portal everyone else is hitting.

It's not easy with Ghallandas messed up paths in part 1 :p

[hityawithastick]

It's not a good group if you don't carry at least 4 soul stones for a minimum of 2 minutes.

[Samadhi]

I do get irritated at the one jackass in every quest that can't just go hit the portal everyone else is hitting.

If you have decent portal DPS, it is more efficient to split up when smashing portals than to move as a single group.

[bobbryan2]

I couldn't care less what's going on in shroud, especially part 1. It takes a coordinated effort to fail that raid.

If someone is killing enough stuff that there aren't 20 portal keepers spawned all over the place then it's all good.


I do get irritated at the one jackass in every quest that can't just go hit the portal everyone else is hitting.

You technically get more DPS the more portals you're beating on simultaneously. Less running time.

You normally get annoyed at jackasses that are cutting down the time in part I?

[THAC0]

I had a comment but.... since I wasn't in this PUG... I'll retract it.

But will say this... What you did sounded ok with me. :)

[MalikiGoddess]

I couldn't care less what's going on in shroud, especially part 1. It takes a coordinated effort to fail that raid.

If someone is killing enough stuff that there aren't 20 portal keepers spawned all over the place then it's all good.


I do get irritated at the one jackass in every quest that can't just go hit the portal everyone else is hitting.

Not an effort on the players parts, but a coordinated effort on the game servers to lag us out completely in part 4/5. :D

[Miacorva]

Have to agree with an earlier post, what with the inordinate number of build options and the influx of relatively inexperienced players a lot of leaders simply do not know what to expect any longer.

Once upon a time folk ran Shroud at level. Reavers lfm was 11-14 and the list goes on. The unpredictable nature of pugs means that most folk who want to run these at level will try coordinate it in guild and/or allied guilds.

Simply put an air of nervous tension seems to hang over DDO raids and their associated leaders. Is it always right, of course not, most folk can handle themselves very well. Sadly it only takes one caster running at a portal on his own with a pure good GA whilst portal keepers spam elsewhere to put the fear of god into a leader.

That said, were it not for these pugs I would likely die of boredom from the relentless grind and go play X-Box ;p

[Draccus]

Agreed. I pug 99% of my shrouds, take the first 11 who hit the LFM, and haven't had a fail since U5.

Interesting. I've pugged exactly one Shroud since DDO:EU launched. It failed because 5 people died in the first blast in Part 4 and 4 of the survivors immediately recalled out after the deaths.

I haven't pugged since and won't pug again.

Additionally, in groups where we open the last 2-3 spots to puggers, I see them do something intentionally stupid (like crafting in P3, standing in a puzzle without trying to solve it or asking for help, blowing all arcane spell points on the lieutenants in P5, not beating on a single portal in P1, etc.) about 1/4 of the time.

[grodon9999]

Interesting. I've pugged exactly one Shroud since DDO:EU launched. It failed because 5 people died in the first blast in Part 4 and 4 of the survivors immediately recalled out after the deaths.

I haven't pugged since and won't pug again.

Additionally, in groups where we open the last 2-3 spots to puggers, I see them do something intentionally stupid (like crafting in P3, standing in a puzzle without trying to solve it or asking for help, blowing all arcane spell points on the lieutenants in P5, not beating on a single portal in P1, etc.) about 1/4 of the time.

Try it sometime, the average player has gotten a lot better then we were a year ago. After doing shroud with 6 rangers and no healers I have trouble taking it that seriously anymore. Even if half the group doesn't break DR it's still done in two rounds.

I'm also a complete jerk so the bad players avoid me after a few outbreaks of nerd-rage.

There are some caveats, don't shroud after midnight, puggers are like gremlins.

[Ethiel]

Try it sometime, the average player has gotten a lot better then we were a year ago. After doing shroud with 6 rangers and no healers I have trouble taking it that seriously anymore. Even if half the group doesn't break DR it's still done in two rounds.

I'm also a complete jerk so the bad players avoid me after a few outbreaks of nerd-rage.

There are some caveats, don't shroud after midnight, puggers are like gremlins.

Junk, I have to agree with you, pugs ain't so bad. And you can be a bit of a jerk at times, but normally the person earned it :)