What happened to Playing for fun???

[Ryu_109]

Well im shocked!, today was the first time I have ever in all my time playing been declined from a shroud raid on >NORMAL< because my SoS and bloodstone "will gimp my DPS".... Now its not an Epic SoS and I can see that -10 per hit might be an issue for some... but im a maxed STR kensi fighter with full haste boots and crits on a 14... people... if that aint DPS enough for a shourd on normal then im afraid I must walk away form this game for good...

Now im working on my GS stuff, truly I am, but I have a family, job and real life friends to balance out with having a hobby in playing an awesome game, but elitists have clearly tainted the mind of the majority and if you dont treat this game as a second life then you do not belong in it, or at least that is the way things are heading...

Please, please, please prove that my thinking is wrong and there are still some sensible people that have a life and a job and occasionally have intercourse with other human beings (or "get laid" if that is your preferred wording) that still play the game :(

a shroud normal hahaha brings tears of laughter everytime I think of it...

[CaptGrim]

It may be elitist, but they are obviously not elite players. More often than not it is weak players that think they need a perfect party. Shroud normal can be completed with any 12 classes in a decent time, the 2 healers 1 caster 9 dps groups that stay up waiting for the perfect mix make me lol.

This raid should be like abbot and reaver....take the first 11 people to click the LFM and go.

5 minutes longer completion, is not worth an extra 15 waiting for the perfect mix.

[PCNONSENSE]

I would suggest not even looking twice at ANY lfm that asks to post weapons...

What those lfms mean to me is the leader is not confident enough in his abilities that he needs to make up for it somehow.

I like to put an lfm up next to those that says something like "Shroud run - masterwork weapons only" or some other sarcastic nonsense :)

[jwdaniels]

I've been asked to post DR breakers once in the shrouds that I have run on my barbarian. That run failed in part 2. I have had one group leader question my ability to be second healer in a shroud with a level 16 cleric. That group died halfway through the first round of part 4. It sounds to me like the leader of that group you describe did you a favor.

Rule of Thumb: The amount of qualifying criteria to be accepted into a shroud pug is inversely proportional to the quality of that pug.

[Bracosius]

Yeah, it is certainly not elitists you have a problem with.

The standard SOS may not be ideal damage, but elite players do not really care what you have. They will complete a shroud normal with or without you and don't mind if you grab the coat tails for a ride to large ingrediants.

Elite players leave with 8 people if thats all that hit the LFM in the 5 minutes they are willing to wait for the group to form. Your damage output is meaningless for them.

You were declined by a player that fails Shroud runs because they are not good or properly geared.

[Bolo_Grubb]

I would suggest not even looking twice at ANY lfm that asks to post weapons...

What those lfms mean to me is the leader is not confident enough in his abilities that he needs to make up for it somehow.

I like to put an lfm up next to those that says something like "Shroud run - masterwork weapons only" or some other sarcastic nonsense :)

I need to find a +1 mettaline dagger of pg or something similar to post when they ask for DR busters :-)

[TitoJ]

Playing for fun got boring a long time ago. Now we play to be better than you.

[KreepyKritter]

"Shroud run - masterwork weapons only"

When I get my TR'd toon back up in that range again... I'd totally be down for that run... and then go back at cap and run it naked.

[Srozbun]

You don't need a DR breaker to complete shroud on normal. However, you will be doing 15 less damage per swing and you will therefore be contributing less DPS than another melee with a DR breaker. Will that wipe the raid? Probably not. Probably not unless all the melees in the group were of the "I don't need a DR breaker" mentality.

A DR breaker does not mean Min II. Holy/Silver, Metalline of PG, Metalline/flametouched can all bypass Harry's DR. While these weapons may be expensive on the AH for new players, there are ways to acquire them that should be accessible to everyone.

1) If you are low on funds your DR breaker does not have to be your weapon on choice. You are a TWF khopesh user? Well don't be afraid to use another weapon that has met/PG on it.

2) Don't use the AH. Try to purchase a DR breaker on your server's trade forum or borrow/purchase one from a guildy.

Also, as you have said OP, this was the first time you've been declined. How many shrouds have you run? People are generally not selective with normal shrouds and if you get declined once in a while for not having a DR breaker, just move on and join another group. Shroud is run 24/7 and chances are another group will accept you.


I would suggest not even looking twice at ANY lfm that asks to post weapons...

What those lfms mean to me is the leader is not confident enough in his abilities that he needs to make up for it somehow.

I like to put an lfm up next to those that says something like "Shroud run - masterwork weapons only" or some other sarcastic nonsense :)

Some groups that ask for DR breakers do so because of the reason you stated. I know others who make these groups because they don't want to deal with people who are either ignorant of what breaks DR, or are new/incapabale/unwilling to acquire the necessary weapons to do so. Is that elitist? maybe. Is it fair? Probably not. But everyone plays this game for their own reasons. I would not taunt anyone with this kind of LFM up just as I would not taunt anyone with a Shroud LFM up with "reform" in it.

[Ryu_109]

Well reading all your posts your thoughts are the same as mine if on a shroud normal you need to have the best of the best join as a character yourself your severely gimped :P when I tried to tell this leader that my DPS is fine he got on his high horse about me being gimped lol so left him to it you cant argue with people like that, their over compensating for real life inadequacies and it makes them nerd rage if you noob up their raid :P

[LordPiglet]

I've been asked to post DR breakers once in the shrouds that I have run on my barbarian. That run failed in part 2. I have had one group leader question my ability to be second healer in a shroud with a level 16 cleric. That group died halfway through the first round of part 4. It sounds to me like the leader of that group you describe did you a favor.

Rule of Thumb: The amount of qualifying criteria to be accepted into a shroud pug is inversely proportional to the quality of that pug.

this

[mws2970]

I wish I had a screenie, but I saw a Sarlona Shroud LFM up for 18-20 normal that said to read the levels. Apparently the leader could only complete this with toons at/over the raid level? I just LOL'ed and went about my business.

[jwdaniels]

Well reading all your posts your thoughts are the same as mine if on a shroud normal you need to have the best of the best join as a character yourself your severely gimped :P when I tried to tell this leader that my DPS is fine he got on his high horse about me being gimped lol so left him to it you cant argue with people like that, their over compensating for real life inadequacies and it makes them nerd rage if you noob up their raid :P

If it will make you feel any better, he is almsot definitely the type of player that takes longer to open a solver online than the rest of us do solving our puzzles in part 3.

[Chai]

Oops, I tripped and fell, landing on the completion button for Shroud on normal. /sigh...See you in three days.


I wish I had a screenie, but I saw a Sarlona Shroud LFM up for 18-20 normal that said to read the levels. Apparently the leader could only complete this with toons at/over the raid level? I just LOL'ed and went about my business.

12 level 20s should be able to complete with +1 metalline flame touched iron light hammers as DPS weapons on normal at this point. I saw that same LFM. I tossed mine up after theirs and we were in part 3 while their LFM was still up.

[Dandonk]

The Playing For Fun feat got removed with the launch of Eberron Unlimited. A few oldtimers have it grandfathered, but as they have begun TRing it is slowly fading out of the game. Sorry.

[jmonty]

I need to find a +1 mettaline dagger of pg or something similar to post when they ask for DR busters :-)

or a great xbow :p

with the changes to the AH stuff like that is easy to find :D

[Ryu_109]

You don't need a DR breaker to complete shroud on normal. However, you will be doing 15 less damage per swing and you will therefore be contributing less DPS than another melee with a DR breaker. Will that wipe the raid? Probably not. Probably not unless all the melees in the group were of the "I don't need a DR breaker" mentality.

A DR breaker does not mean Min II. Holy/Silver, Metalline of PG, Metalline/flametouched can all bypass Harry's DR. While these weapons may be expensive on the AH for new players, there are ways to acquire them that should be accessible to everyone.

1) If you are low on funds your DR breaker does not have to be your weapon on choice. You are a TWF khopesh user? Well don't be afraid to use another weapon that has met/PG on it.

2) Don't use the AH. Try to purchase a DR breaker on your server's trade forum or borrow/purchase one from a guildy.

Also, as you have said OP, this was the first time you've been declined. How many shrouds have you run? People are generally not selective with normal shrouds and if you get declined once in a while for not having a DR breaker, just move on and join another group. Shroud is run 24/7 and chances are another group will accept you.



Some groups that ask for DR breakers do so because of the reason you stated. I know others who make these groups because they don't want to deal with people who are either ignorant of what breaks DR, or are new/incapabale/unwilling to acquire the necessary weapons to do so. Is that elitist? maybe. Is it fair? Probably not. But everyone plays this game for their own reasons. I would not taunt anyone with this kind of LFM up just as I would not taunt anyone with a Shroud LFM up with "reform" in it.

I kind of understand what your saying but will a +5 holy greataxe of Pure good that crits 19 - 20 do better then a 14 - 20 sos if the fighter is kensi for greatsword... thats is a serious question by the way not trying to be condescending

[k1ngp1n]

I wish I had a screenie, but I saw a Sarlona Shroud LFM up for 18-20 normal that said to read the levels. Apparently the leader could only complete this with toons at/over the raid level? I just LOL'ed and went about my business.

I remember that LFM. We were raving over it in guild vent. I was getting ready to break into a William Shatneresque 'Read! the levels.....' monologue but was never given the opportunity.

I'm saving that little monologue now for another day. Beware, Supremacy. Beware.

[mws2970]

12 level 20s should be able to complete with the Club of the Holy Flame as DPS weapons on normal at this point. I saw that same LFM. I tossed mine up after theirs and we were in part 3 while their LFM was still up.

Fixed that for ya! :P

[der_kluge]

As a healer, I never join a Shroud run that says "link beaters, plz".

I don't want to encourage that kind of garbage.

[Ryu_109]

The Playing For Fun feat got removed with the launch of Eberron Unlimited. A few oldtimers have it grandfathered, but as they have begun TRing it is slowly fading out of the game. Sorry.

Well I refuse to play for anything but fun, I have been playing since release and that's how I have always played this GAME, I like to think that when I hit the power button on my PC I dont die along with it but hey ho that's just me :P

[Srozbun]

I kind of understand what your saying but will a +5 holy greataxe of Pure good that crits 19 - 20 do better then a 14 - 20 sos if the fighter is kensi for greatsword... thats is a serious question by the way not trying to be condescending

The Holy PG greataxe will not break DR either. However, it will have 3d6 extra damage (from holy and PG) over the SoS. Harry has (25%?) some fort as well so keep that in mind. It will probably outdamage your plain SoS. IMO the greataxe is a perfectly acceptable weapon (will work better on portals too) and if you get declined linking it, well just move on. I've had great groups and terrible groups with people who required DR breakers. Some want it because they themselves don't have it and want to be carried. Others do it because they actually are elitist and this allows them to screen for "noobs." Either way, you wouldn't have enjoyed either types, so consider yourself fortunate.

[Ryu_109]

I've had great groups and terrible groups with people who required DR breakers. Some want it because they themselves don't have it and want to be carried. Others do it because they actually are elitist and this allows them to screen for "noobs." Either way, you wouldn't have enjoyed either types, so consider yourself fortunate.

But the thing is like people have said at lvls 18 - 20 you could hit the shroud with your best masterwork weapons, naked and still get it done... maybe just add a couple of minutes to the completion time for the sake of adding a bit of fun to the game, i remember on the EU servers people used to do things like that all the time because it was fun! naked dragon runs were a regular Friday night lol

I would much rather play this game LMAO all the way through a quest then to sit there feeling the need to prove my worth as this weeks super nerd lol

[DethTrip]

I drew up a build one time without power attack (although I do believe pretty much all melee should have it) and I was told that if I didn't have power attack then I would cause a shroud run to fail. I've accidentally left it off because of the bug where it doesn't reactivate when logging in and it didn't make any noticeable difference. This thread pretty much says what I said. Horsepucky.

[Srozbun]

But the thing is like people have said at lvls 18 - 20 you could hit the shroud with your best masterwork weapons, naked and still get it done... maybe just add a couple of minutes to the completion time for the sake of adding a bit of fun to the game, i remember on the EU servers people used to do things like that all the time because it was fun! naked dragon runs were a regular Friday night lol

I would much rather play this game LMAO all the way through a quest then to sit there feeling the need to prove my worth as this weeks super nerd lol

Some people are of that mentality and some are not. Some people will see this as a way to spruce up a boring and easy raid and to have a good time with guildies/friends. Others will see this as a collosal waste of time in a raid they already run far too often. To each their own.

It is tough when you are new and undergeared. I remember when I used to farm shrouds (recalling out before final altar) because large ingredients (and hell mediums and smalls) were worth more to me than a cleansing stone. I also remember part 4s where people would die all the time, part 4s and 5s where people would wipe, etc. Older players tend to take Shroud completions for granted, but yes, newer players still wipe at that raid. I understand why some people might want to screen for DR breakers in their LFMs. If you are an established player on the server in an established guild and with friends who will hit your LFM when they see it, its very easy to get a good core of 4 people together who you know could 4 man the raid if everything goes south. If you're new and try to start a shroud, it's easy to see why someone may try to screen.

[Sarisa]

I wish I had a screenie, but I saw a Sarlona Shroud LFM up for 18-20 normal that said to read the levels. Apparently the leader could only complete this with toons at/over the raid level? I just LOL'ed and went about my business.

Sounds like the same one from last night on Sarlona who:
1. Had 'No WF' in the LFM.
2. Had no bard in the group.
3. Rejected my Warchanter wielding an Epic Antique Greataxe (with a Heaven's Light crystal) because "That's a DPS weapon but bards are not DPS".
4. Had 18-20 as the level range.

[jwdaniels]

I wish I had a screenie, but I saw a Sarlona Shroud LFM up for 18-20 normal that said to read the levels. Apparently the leader could only complete this with toons at/over the raid level? I just LOL'ed and went about my business.

That comment was added after I tried to join with my level 16 cleric. Funny enough, they were still waiting for a healer when the other shroud group I had joined (that started afterwards) was entering the quest.

EDIT: Assuming of course this was on Sarlona.

[Ryu_109]

Rejected my Warchanter wielding an Epic Antique Greataxe (with a Heaven's Light crystal) because "That's a DPS weapon but bards are not DPS".


"A warchanter in a shroud good god man have you got every item on the game?"
"O.o no?"
"We iz all gonna die!!!" *rage quit*
"?...."

[Vellrad]

The funniest thing I saw at Shroud was guy demanding DR breakers from me, when I was on my wizard. He didn't understood that I'm not hitting anything with a weapon, that my spells are doing about 800 damage in 6 seconds, he just wanted to see DR breaking weapon :)

[phalaeo]

Seriously, next time any of you get declined for a normal Shroud- please link the leader to this thread:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=286254

And then laugh in their faces. :p

[Talon_Moonshadow]

It's hard for me to understand people's fear of failing a quest. Epecially the Shroud.


if you complete prt one, you get a nice chest. Some tier one ingrediants a and a chance at a shard.

If you then fail prt 2, your repair bill is already paid for, and you get to hit the next LFM an try again....

What's the problem?


Now, I guess if you are the healer....and just chuged a bunch of pots it's a problem.

Or maybe all you need is that last large scale and access to an alter.......maybe then....maybe.
Especially if you just failed the last three attempts.


And I understand that failing is usually not fun. Epsecially cause of the bad feelings from other players.

But if people just relaxed and didn't rage quit calling each other bad names...etc. And just laughed about it, and tried again. It would be a lot more fun IMO.





I play to have fun.
I know that some quests are a lot easier, when you stack the deck in some way.
With the right party and gear....etc.

But I'll try anything with any group. Twice if I like it!



I don't want to go broke on failures of course.
I don't want to do anything with a bunch of complainers.
And failing isn't much fun.

But stressing over it isn't fun either.



In general, I go with whoever wants to join.

Lets just jump in and try it. A lot better than standing around screening for some perfect group.

[pumagirl418]

what is this 'fun' you speak of?

[crazy7381]

Leader: Link BB's please
Me: (searching inventory)
Leader: Do you have any?
Me: *posts Muckdooms* Ego beaters for your Jelly like brain and soon to be failing shroud run!
Leader: Newbs *kicks from group*
Me: *Laughing hysterically* (mastercard commercial voice) Priceless.

+1 for the good visual =-)

[Glenalth]

I need to find a +1 mettaline dagger of pg or something similar to post when they ask for DR busters :-)

Just buy one of the DDO store items for giggles.



I will say that I have never seen a Shroud LFM or been in Shroud where I was asked to link my weapons or even asked if I had any.

[Twerpp]

Maybe their idea of fun is screaming at you for sucking and dropping you from group, then bursting into a 10 minute fit of uncontrollable laughter while their read your forum post about it?

Sounds fun to me. :p

[Uska]

I only play for fun thats why I dont have mabar gear I didnt find it even mildly fun for me.

[Ryu_109]

Maybe their idea of fun is screaming at you for sucking and dropping you from group, then bursting into a 10 minute fit of uncontrollable laughter while their read your forum post about it?

Sounds fun to me. :p

Lol yes, its entirely possible and if so i will laugh along with them but some people really are just that stupid :P


Edit: well got in a shroud run in the end so not feeling to bad about it just made me laugh is all.... Please let me know guys if any of you decide to do a "funky" shroud run :D

[MeliCat]

I've been in too many failed shrouds because of completely awful dps and no other reason. I make no apologies for lfms of 16-20 with 'plz link Harry beaters'.

And the other reason is speed and resource usage. I just want to get it done in 25mins not 1 hour. And there are *plenty* of other people who think exactly like I do. Compacted fun rather than drawn out fun. And speedy shrouds with minimum buffing and shrining are lots of fun.

If you explained to me that you were trying to get a GS upgraded you would be very welcome in spots 11-12 and everyone encouraged to assist you with shards.

[MorningStarSE]

I will say that I have never seen a Shroud LFM or been in Shroud where I was asked to link my weapons or even asked if I had any.

This. And, the only reasons why I've been rejected was

-Needed arcane (and i grind shroud on my fighter cause i'm too lazy to flag the wizzie).
-Needed 40+ Intimidate (come on I'm sitting at 35 :'()
-No need for melee dps ( :-(, oh well i'll wait for the next train ).

[Xeraphim]

/silly

Guys, I will be MyDDOing your character for Korthos Casual runs! Too many gimps run around thinking that a CON under 20 is good enough! You need to have +10 Keen Vorpal Ultra Monstrous Humanoid Bane Dwarven Axes for max DPS!! Yes, I expect them at level 1. You can farm em easy in any quest and they will drop in every chest because they just do.

Oh, and your mother wears Madstone Boots. :p

/silly off

[Ryu_109]

I've been in too many failed shrouds because of completely awful dps and no other reason. I make no apologies for lfms of 16-20 with 'plz link Harry beaters'.
.

Its things like that is what scare people away from actually taking risks and making it fun im not sure if you were playing "way back when" but there wasnt always GS weapons in the game... shock horror i know.... and lvl 16 was cap... again shock horror lvl 14 - 16 shrouds all day and yes majority were successful :D i for one have only ever failed 1 shroud that was one of the first runs on keeper :)

[Xeraphim]

I once tried to join a Shroud as a Halfling Khopesh Rogue with 30 STR. I was declined.

I linked my flametouched metalline greater evil outsider bane and mineral II and they let me in.

That shroud failed.

I joined another and they were all joking around and having a good time, nevermind what I was wielding or what my build was.

That shroud was a 1-rounder. I enjoyed it.

[MeliCat]

Its things like that is what scare people away from actually taking risks and making it fun im not sure if you were playing "way back when" but there wasnt always GS weapons in the game... shock horror i know.... and lvl 16 was cap... again shock horror lvl 14 - 16 shrouds all day and yes majority were successful :D i for one have only ever failed 1 shroud that was one of the first runs on keeper :)

Good for you.

But if at the end of part 3 people are chatting about greater dragon banes and then it's a truly awful part 4, you get scared off from Shrouds that are going to take a long time and be resource intensive.

Yup. 14-16 when cap was 16 yup. But they had also run Shroud to death and, here's the key point, were correctly equipped.

If I jump in a random pug shroud I might be lucky and it might be an uber 1 rounder, or it might be a complete leaderless train wreck. I do that sometimes just for the entertainment value when I know I have extra time available. Other times I want guaranteed fast: so you either go with those who are leading it who you know have a clue or you run your own.

[jwdaniels]

Is the extra time it takes to fill up a shroud lfm with the perfect mix of properly equipped characters really significantly less than the extra time it takes to kill Harry early in round 2 instead of round 1?

[TipsyDrow]

Well im shocked!, today was the first time I have ever in all my time playing been declined from a shroud raid on >NORMAL< because my SoS and bloodstone "will gimp my DPS".... Now its not an Epic SoS and I can see that -10 per hit might be an issue for some... but im a maxed STR kensi fighter with full haste boots and crits on a 14... people... if that aint DPS enough for a shourd on normal then im afraid I must walk away form this game for good...

Now im working on my GS stuff, truly I am, but I have a family, job and real life friends to balance out with having a hobby in playing an awesome game, but elitists have clearly tainted the mind of the majority and if you dont treat this game as a second life then you do not belong in it, or at least that is the way things are heading...

Please, please, please prove that my thinking is wrong and there are still some sensible people that have a life and a job and occasionally have intercourse with other human beings (or "get laid" if that is your preferred wording) that still play the game :(

a shroud normal hahaha brings tears of laughter everytime I think of it...

Mhmmm see those all the time on Cannith 18-20 link DR beaters for a norm shroud run.
You will typically see mine then right above that one 16-20 Beat yer linkers!! uhm err nvm that, link DOB, astrological sign and bring me a ham sammich. I get the oddest players in my groups....we typically fill fast and complete without incident, but ...the chat...just odd...*grins*

[Bracosius]

Good for you.

But if at the end of part 3 people are chatting about greater dragon banes and then it's a truly awful part 4, you get scared off from Shrouds that are going to take a long time and be resource intensive.

Yup. 14-16 when cap was 16 yup. But they had also run Shroud to death and, here's the key point, were correctly equipped.

If I jump in a random pug shroud I might be lucky and it might be an uber 1 rounder, or it might be a complete leaderless train wreck. I do that sometimes just for the entertainment value when I know I have extra time available. Other times I want guaranteed fast: so you either go with those who are leading it who you know have a clue or you run your own.

Seems your mentality and support of stupid LFM's is exactly what the OP was talking about. If it turns out you joined an amazingly bad pug group, like you said, sit back and watch the wreck. When the group wipes if they blame every other player, remind them that only lag causes wipes in the shroud. Ask any seasoned pugger. :)

[MeliCat]

Is the extra time it takes to fill up a shroud lfm with the perfect mix of properly equipped characters really significantly less than the extra time it takes to kill Harry early in round 2 instead of round 1?

In my experience I usually fill pretty quickly with lfms 16-20 link Harry beaters. It could also be because of my timezone or guild or friends who know me though as well. And channels. And not 'perfect party', healer, caster, 3 dps who you know are very solid and then the rest of whoever (Bards very welcome just for IC and I don't care if they don't do anything else. Love my piker bards :P )

Prime playing times though you have 5 shrouds to choose from. So yeah, you pick and play and see what you get :)

[Kominalito]

playing for fun is for suckers. i play for peen points.

[MeliCat]

Seems your mentality and support of stupid LFM's is exactly what the OP was talking about. If it turns out you joined an amazingly bad pug group, like you said, sit back and watch the wreck. When the group wipes if they blame every other player, remind them that only lag causes wipes in the shroud. Ask any seasoned pugger. :)

*multiple* trainwrecks and multiple bad pug groups. And I'm fed up with them.

And frankly the chats I have with people who hit my lfms and I send them tells and ask are friendly and kind and help them for the next time.

Elitest? Ignorant noob? Yeah whatever. Speedy shrouds are a lot of fun and that's the fun I and others aim for.

[phalaeo]

Just buy one of the DDO store items for giggles.



I will say that I have never seen a Shroud LFM or been in Shroud where I was asked to link my weapons or even asked if I had any.

Yeah, I don't understand this other server mentality. Never been asked to link, never asked anyone else to link. I'm more concerned with their HP and fort than anything.

[Bracosius]

*multiple* trainwrecks and multiple bad pug groups. And I'm fed up with them.

And frankly the chats I have with people who hit my lfms and I send them tells and ask are friendly and kind and help them for the next time.

Elitest? Ignorant noob? Yeah whatever. Speedy shrouds are a lot of fun and that's the fun I and others aim for.


I suppose I am skewed because even when I join the random pug Shroud, it's been months since one failed. If I had been in Shroud after Shroud and had continual fail, I may be driven to such lengths also.

[Ryu_109]

Seriously if you need to pick an choose in a pug shroud you may want to look into not only your character design but also your skill as a player, like I say when lvl 16 was cap and shroud was new you think for the first 3 months of that quest being opened that everyone had tier ligII+minII GS GA? :)

Nope barely any had anything but the Base GS and yet we still managed again with only 1 wipe in about 30 runs before lvl capp was increased, so if your lvl 16 - 20 fully/half geared pugs cant keep up with lvl 14 - 16 half/no geared pugs then may I recommend I re roll on your whole account? :P even a pug of gimps lvl 16 - 20 couldn't bugger up a shroud (unless healers were particularly bad) at worst you might have to kill him nearing the end of round 2

[pSINNa]

Well im shocked!, today was the first time I have ever in all my time playing been declined from a shroud raid on >NORMAL< because my SoS and bloodstone "will gimp my DPS".... Now its not an Epic SoS and I can see that -10 per hit might be an issue for some... but im a maxed STR kensi fighter with full haste boots and crits on a 14... people... if that aint DPS enough for a shourd on normal then im afraid I must walk away form this game for good...

Now im working on my GS stuff, truly I am, but I have a family, job and real life friends to balance out with having a hobby in playing an awesome game, but elitists have clearly tainted the mind of the majority and if you dont treat this game as a second life then you do not belong in it, or at least that is the way things are heading...

Please, please, please prove that my thinking is wrong and there are still some sensible people that have a life and a job and occasionally have intercourse with other human beings (or "get laid" if that is your preferred wording) that still play the game :(

a shroud normal hahaha brings tears of laughter everytime I think of it...

My lvl 18 TR ranger (tempest str build dual GS khopesh wielding with amrath tempest neck/ring set - 2 crafted rings, supa-dupa-dps-uber Coitfluff!! :P) got denied on a shroud lfm yesterday mate, they wanted lvl 19-20 only.

It was a normal run.

I had a laugh, and went and ran lead on 3 raids after that (one of which is the 'teaching puggers to hound' series i'm running on ghallanda at the moment).

You're better off just having a laugh, pointing it out in guild chat for your mates to have a laugh at, and moving on, or leading your own raid of course.

Many people are silly, don't let it spoil your fun.

Coit out~

[Ryu_109]

+10 Keen Vorpal Ultra Monstrous Humanoid Bane Dwarven Axes for max DPS!!

Gotta find me one of them bad boys! :P

[irivan]

Well im shocked!, today was the first time I have ever in all my time playing been declined from a shroud raid on >NORMAL< because my SoS and bloodstone "will gimp my DPS".... Now its not an Epic SoS and I can see that -10 per hit might be an issue for some... but im a maxed STR kensi fighter with full haste boots and crits on a 14... people... if that aint DPS enough for a shourd on normal then im afraid I must walk away form this game for good...

Now im working on my GS stuff, truly I am, but I have a family, job and real life friends to balance out with having a hobby in playing an awesome game, but elitists have clearly tainted the mind of the majority and if you dont treat this game as a second life then you do not belong in it, or at least that is the way things are heading...

Please, please, please prove that my thinking is wrong and there are still some sensible people that have a life and a job and occasionally have intercourse with other human beings (or "get laid" if that is your preferred wording) that still play the game :(

a shroud normal hahaha brings tears of laughter everytime I think of it...

You know i find **** like this fascinating.

Why do a lot of these gimpites assume that whats fun for them is fun for everyone else?

My version of fun is not the same as yours, clearly.

Fun for me involves winning, and get the best loot, i like to collect **** i dont even need to have.

Epic is fun because it is challenging some times.

Fun for me is beating the game in every manner of the word or even ruling over the content.

I do not find it fun when some gimpite jumps in a shroud, Tower, epic, Epic Raid and then proceeds to waste my time by not being up to the tasks at hand because of his gimpite build and poorly geared "i play just for fun" self.

Now with that said, you dont have to be all that well geared for shroud, but you should have a portal beater, a weapon that can bypass Harry's DR, and healers who know the meaning of mass heal.

Either way, your version of fun may not be some one else's and what ever the case, there is always the BBQ rule.

When its their BBQ they can do what ever they want, and you dont get to complain, no one ever said you had to go to their BBQ and eat their awful sauce now did they.

Quit complaining.

[MeliCat]

Seriously if you need to pick an choose in a pug shroud you may want to look into not only your character design but also your skill as a player, like I say when lvl 16 was cap and shroud was new you think for the first 3 months of that quest being opened that everyone had tier ligII+minII GS GA? :)

Nope barely any had anything but the Base GS and yet we still managed again with only 1 wipe in about 30 runs before lvl capp was increased, so if your lvl 16 - 20 fully/half geared pugs cant keep up with lvl 14 - 16 half/no geared pugs then may I recommend I re roll on your whole account? :P even a pug of gimps lvl 16 - 20 couldn't bugger up a shroud (unless healers were particularly bad) at worst you might have to kill him nearing the end of round 2

Ok so in this post you've attacked my skill as a player and you've recommended that my whole account be rerolled. You've also claimed that a pug of gimps can not fail a shroud unless the healers were really bad.

Hmmm. Very interesting there.

I would have to let my guildies and friends comment on this.

[Ryu_109]

I do not find it fun when some gimpite jumps in a shroud, Tower, epic, Epic Raid and then proceeds to waste my time by not being up to the tasks at hand because of his gimpite build and poorly geared "i play just for fun" self.



Lol this bit I find particularly amusing... tell me my good man do you actually know the meaning of fresh air and a real life? lol people that play like you have nothing better to do then to create female toons solely based on the fact that you like to watch their pixels run from behind ;)

that fact that you feel the need to be so aggressive towards me and assert your dominance in such a way only tells me that you are probably a self involved middle aged man that either works from home and rarely has contact with the real world or you are severely bullied by your work colleagues in your office that you feel the need to jump into a fantasy world where you are in charge and you can play the big man hahah you make me laugh and im glad in that case that you will ask me to list my weapons in your LFM's because that means I can avoid you and your kind to the best of my ability

will probably be asked to remove this by a dev but until then I hope you find time to read it...

[jwdaniels]

healers who know the meaning of mass heal.

Mass Heal - n. a 9th level spell that is completely unnecessary for completing a shroud, provided your raid party is competent and moderately well equipped.

Radiant Servant Prestige + Superior Ardor + Superior Devotion + Healing Enhancements + Empowered Healing = much more efficient Healing with mass cure moderate wounds than with heal.

[Loromir]

I saw an LFM for Wiz King the other day stated "Bring Disruptors or don't come". I have solo'd that with a Holy Greatsword many times.

[Ryu_109]

Ok so in this post you've attacked my skill as a player and you've recommended that my whole account be rerolled. You've also claimed that a pug of gimps can not fail a shroud unless the healers were really bad.

Hmmm. Very interesting there.

I would have to let my guildies and friends comment on this.

Percieve it how you will i just laid out that if you are having so much difficulty then anybody else I have spoken to about shrouding and all these 1 in a million fails happen on your watch maybe its something your doing? as for your friends and guildies I do apologise and if it makes you feel better "im telling dad!" try and grow up a little and fight your own battles you attacked what I said I retaliated, then you did, then me, you again... then I said something that obviously hit home and you feel the need to invite your friends over for a trolling? mature response ;)

[MeliCat]

Lol this bit I find particularly amusing... tell me my good man do you actually know the meaning of fresh air and a real life? lol people that play like you have nothing better to do then to create female toons solely based on the fact that you like to watch their pixels run from behind ;)

that fact that you feel the need to be so aggressive towards me and assert your dominance in such a way only tells me that you are probably a self involved middle aged man that either works from home and rarely has contact with the real world or you are severely bullied by your work colleagues in your office that you feel the need to jump into a fantasy world where you are in charge and you can play the big man hahah you make me laugh and im glad in that case that you will ask me to list my weapons in your LFM's because that means I can avoid you and your kind to the best of my ability

will probably be asked to remove this by a dev but until then I hope you find time to read it...

ah huh.

Ok. Well your real agenda is coming out now.

I have a lot of time and sympathy for casual players or players who have a lot of RL commitments (and RL comes first - this is just a game).

But the good ones will still try to be as equiped as they can to do what they need to do or work towards that - and recognise that they're not quite where they need to be and mitigate that.

Anyway, it doesn't sound like you're on Khyber so I guess our paths will never cross

[grodon9999]

Radiant Servant Prestige + Superior Ardor + Superior Devotion + Healing Enhancements + Empowered Healing = much more efficient Healing with mass cure moderate wounds than with heal.

I disagree but that's off-topic :)

[MeliCat]

Percieve it how you will i just laid out that if you are having so much difficulty then anybody else I have spoken to about shrouding and all these 1 in a million fails happen on your watch maybe its something your doing? as for your friends and guildies I do apologise and if it makes you feel better "im telling dad!" try and grow up a little and fight your own battles you attacked what I said I retaliated, then you did, then me, you again... then I said something that obviously hit home and you feel the need to invite your friends over for a trolling? mature response ;)

No - my comments on my ability as a player and builder of characters sound better from someone else rather than me. I haven't actually bothered mentioning this thread to any of them. And if I did it would be more as entertainment value than anything else. It's certainly degrading to that which is a shame.

Yup, you've hit a nerve with others who seem to never have bad runs and don't understand lfms that ask for a different type of run. A number of people agree with you that Shroud lfms should just be join and go affairs. And at peak playing times you get heaps of those - lots of choice for you. Move onto the next one if you get refused.

Fabulous to hear that all these people *never* have fails and are happy to have 1 hr runs.

Some others though want speedy no-fuss completions. Hence the *slightly* (and really what is asked for is no big deal) more restrictive lfms.

Ok... your next attack will be....?

[Veileira]

So, I'm new and I wasn't around when the cap was 16. Was the quest not updated at all when the quest level was raised? Does the boss not have more hp and damage than way back then when you all ran it with 14-16 groups? Was it still a level 17 raid back then?

Maybe things have changed.

I still think it's funny to see 19-20 shroud lfms for NORMAL though, especially "link your beaters" ones! Do they realize what the quest level is? :D

[irivan]

Lol this bit I find particularly amusing... tell me my good man do you actually know the meaning of fresh air and a real life? lol people that play like you have nothing better to do then to create female toons solely based on the fact that you like to watch their pixels run from behind ;)

that fact that you feel the need to be so aggressive towards me and assert your dominance in such a way only tells me that you are probably a self involved middle aged man that either works from home and rarely has contact with the real world or you are severely bullied by your work colleagues in your office that you feel the need to jump into a fantasy world where you are in charge and you can play the big man hahah you make me laugh and im glad in that case that you will ask me to list my weapons in your LFM's because that means I can avoid you and your kind to the best of my ability

will probably be asked to remove this by a dev but until then I hope you find time to read it...

First and thank god you dont play on Khyber, your incessant tells begging to get in a group would become annoying.

Second you come to the forums crying like a small child and then accuse me of aggressive forum poaching to fill my half empty glass, the bitterness you displayed lays the no life guilt squarely at your feet.

Third since i do not own a single female character (verifiable by Myddo) shows your absolute willingness to talk out of the side of your neck and further demonstrate that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

Lastly my words must have rung home deep, because your spirited attempted to pull the spot light off of the ugly truth that "playing just for fun" is an all to tired excuse for weak players that want to ride the coat tails of the servers better players. Of which you are clearly guilty.

Oh dont worry i wont complain about your post, i have thicker skin than that, and you.

But dry your eyes on some one else's shoulders.

@ the cat who made the Mass heal rebuttal as a reference to a level 20 spell, in thinking that i think that you need to be level 17 or higher to be in shroud....

Wrong...I meant any mass healing spell, for crying out loud some one properly built using mass cure light or moderate can pull off healing shroud at level 13 or so.

[stille_nacht]

I would suggest not even looking twice at ANY lfm that asks to post weapons...

What those lfms mean to me is the leader is not confident enough in his abilities that he needs to make up for it somehow.

I like to put an lfm up next to those that says something like "Shroud run - masterwork weapons only" or some other sarcastic nonsense :)

well for elite shroud/ ToD youll want ppl to link their dr breakers :p, but on NORM? if someone needs gs linking and whatnot for a norm shroud run, then... i dont even know

i have short manned shroud with only 8 people with guildies (sure they are better equipped than most, but not really uber or anything), normal shroud in no way requires perfect mixes at all, it is just the quest people are most paranoid about...

also, i see draaamaaaaa!!!111!!!!!11!!!
better avoid the coming flame war...

[MeliCat]

Yeah, I don't understand this other server mentality. Never been asked to link, never asked anyone else to link. I'm more concerned with their HP and fort than anything.

Often asking for a link *is* actually a subtle way of trying to weed out players without fort and low hp. But hey, I get a couple of barbs/fighters after which I am happy to take a risk on a rogue or 3 :). And gimme casters! Lots and lots of casters!

Shortman? Of course! But usually people love a speedy shroud and will jump right in filling it up.

We had 3 FvS and a cleric as well as random other stuff in a friend's Shroud last night. Bludgeon and light damaging my sp throughout Shroud on my unneeded caster based FvS was kinda fun :) And fastest 1 rounder we'd had for a while...

What amazes me is all the people in this thread who seem to have never been in failed Shrouds and are happy at the really long Shrouds all the time. But as has been said everyone's fun is going to be different and I know that on occasion I really do enjoy doing stuff slowly and exploring stuff and not rushing. I also enjoy when new players are learning stuff and getting the hang of things for the first time remembering back to when I was learning stuff. (I am still am learning stuff...) The cooperative spirit and sense of fun is what keeps me going in DDO.

[QuantumFX]

As a healer, I never join a Shroud run that says "link beaters, plz".

I don't want to encourage that kind of garbage.

IDK. When my completionist character goes through the Cleric and FvS lives I think it would be fun to link my mineral II khopeshes and say “Yep! I’m ready for part 4!”

[Doomcrew]

But the thing is like people have said at lvls 18 - 20 you could hit the shroud with your best masterwork weapons, naked and still get it done... maybe just add a couple of minutes to the completion time for the sake of adding a bit of fun to the game, i remember on the EU servers people used to do things like that all the time because it was fun! naked dragon runs were a regular Friday night lol

I would much rather play this game LMAO all the way through a quest then to sit there feeling the need to prove my worth as this weeks super nerd lol

And so, you post your own shroud lfm's looking for kindred spirits?

[ConnorMacLoad]

Well im shocked!, today was the first time I have ever in all my time playing been declined from a shroud raid on >NORMAL< because my SoS and bloodstone "will gimp my DPS".... Now its not an Epic SoS and I can see that -10 per hit might be an issue for some... but im a maxed STR kensi fighter with full haste boots and crits on a 14... people... if that aint DPS enough for a shourd on normal then im afraid I must walk away form this game for good...

Now im working on my GS stuff, truly I am, but I have a family, job and real life friends to balance out with having a hobby in playing an awesome game, but elitists have clearly tainted the mind of the majority and if you dont treat this game as a second life then you do not belong in it, or at least that is the way things are heading...

Please, please, please prove that my thinking is wrong and there are still some sensible people that have a life and a job and occasionally have intercourse with other human beings (or "get laid" if that is your preferred wording) that still play the game :(

a shroud normal hahaha brings tears of laughter everytime I think of it...

to help you see your gimpness:

+5 MoPG greatsword 50.23 average damage per swing
Sword of shadows 42.83 average damage per swing

This is assuming:
15 DR
50% fort
35 base damage modifier (this is very likely way too low, but the trend will stay close to the same.)
+6 seeker

Do with it what you wish. You can decide weither you are gimp or not, at least now you know the facts of your situation.

[asphodeli]

I see this happening on Sarlona about 25% of the time whenever I fail my Shroud Encounter Level...not sure what happens on other servers though. Sure, some people prefer faster Shroud runs for time/completion/RL issues/whatever fancies them, but some others prefer a longer one. (This might be related with the elitist versus casual mentality in DDO, even with odd builds. How does one get a negative impression of a person who makes *slightly* weird/suboptimal/odd toons and never plays with them, I can never imagine.)

In short, group with people who are like-minded, and avoid what you don't like.

[Ryu_109]

ah huh.

Ok. Well your real agenda is coming out now.

I have a lot of time and sympathy for casual players or players who have a lot of RL commitments (and RL comes first - this is just a game).

But the good ones will still try to be as equiped as they can to do what they need to do or work towards that - and recognise that they're not quite where they need to be and mitigate that.

Anyway, it doesn't sound like you're on Khyber so I guess our paths will never cross
Listen i think youve got me abit wrong, im not saying that players dont need 100% fort and at least +6 str, wis, con and dex items (melee)

im saying that not everyone in the game should have every raid item avilable to be able to run simple and easy quests... thats all im trying to get across

[Ryu_109]

Ok... your next attack will be....?


No attack :), if you wish to think that a party with people that only have a few pennies on their accounts and maybe 1 or 2 raid items on their toons is gonna take 1 hr I cant change your mind clearly i have tried...

think its best to agree to disagree

[Ryu_109]

Lastly my words must have rung home deep, because your spirited attempted to pull the spot light off of the ugly truth that "playing just for fun" is an all to tired excuse for weak players that want to ride the coat tails of the servers better players. Of which you are clearly guilty.

But dry your eyes on some one else's shoulders.





I am nicely geared considering that I only started up playing again like 4 months ago :).. no I dont have the uberist weapons on the game yeah my armour is not raid gear but does that make me gimped? I like to think not.

and as for my tired excuse for being a weak player... maybe people that have no sense of skill may call me a weak player but im yet to have anybody in party chat or tells, tell me that I me weak my toons more often then not are the last one's standing while the "Strong" players with raid loot up to their eye balls but no skill at the game cry because someone pulled 1 mob to many or something equally stupid..

to the forums to cry, I think you'll find if you bothered to read the OP properly instead of just searching the forums to try(key word for ya there ;)) and get the response you want out of people (sadly you got it out of me, but i dont appreciate being spoken to in such a manner) you would know that I was laughing at the fact he wouldn't let me join his party not crying :)

[Dendrix]

I kind of understand what your saying but will a +5 holy greataxe of Pure good that crits 19 - 20 do better then a 14 - 20 sos if the fighter is kensi for greatsword... thats is a serious question by the way not trying to be condescending

Yes.

Harry has 50% fortification, figure that in to the 14-20 crit range of the kensai's greatsword.

[SaneDitto]

It's thoughts like these that make my newbie little self terrified of jumping on the Shroud bandwagon.

[MrCow]

IDK. When my completionist character goes through the Cleric and FvS lives I think it would be fun to link my mineral II khopeshes and say “Yep! I’m ready for part 4!”

I've linked a +5 Metalline Flametouched Iron Greatsword when my completionist was going through her monk life to "pass" the test of having a DR breaking weapon. I was let in based on that.

If you really want to get a few eyebrows raised though, with possibly a good argument, link a Wand of Lightning Bolt or a Wand of Searing Light. Being they don't operate with physical damage and don't trigger any elemental/energy resistance they "bypass DR". It often makes for good times. :)

[lazylaz]

It's thoughts like these that make my newbie little self terrified of jumping on the Shroud bandwagon.

I'm not even a newbie (vet noob maybe) and I won't Shroud unless its a guild run. So I've only done three.

I have my metalline of pg weapons and my puzzle solver but I'm stuffed if I want to bother with potential tools when I can spend my time doing things I know well.

[Delt]

As a rule, I don't link gear (or click LFMs that ask me to), unless it is specifically needed for the raid/job assignment. It's much more fun linking random **** if asked and moving on. I'd likely make an exception for Elite runs.

That said, I was asked to link my dr breaker for a normal ToD...on my 20 pali. Not if I had boots or if I was a tank/dps or whatever. The whole thing confused me, so I mailed him Tasty Hams to confuse him back and left it at that.

[LightBear]

The real elitist will let you tag along and give you a proper rais every now and then.

As long as your not a foulmouth over chat or voice they will have no problem with you being there at all.
In fact if they'll notice that your even close to being half as "elitish" as they are they'll do a step back, let you show off your skills and then compliment you on doing a good job.

[Ryu_109]

so I mailed him Tasty Hams to confuse him back and left it at that.

LOL you legend that made me giggle hahaha

[MeliCat]

No attack :), if you wish to think that a party with people that only have a few pennies on their accounts and maybe 1 or 2 raid items on their toons is gonna take 1 hr I cant change your mind clearly i have tried...

think its best to agree to disagree

DR breakers while a little painful to ask for a melee as I've said I will take people who are working their way up. Asking for stuff like wail, web, hold, fw for a caster is no big deal. Or suitable pot items for a healer.

That's about it really besides the hp/fort/stat items. My caster I ran today has no raid gear. Doesn't have a single piece of GS on her. My pally makes use of the holy sword spell and a blank and hasn't got DT armour yet. My FvS has a potency item from a bard neck from Amrath and that's about it with some ardor clickies.

No I don't think it's necessarily going to take an hour or fail if melees don't have DR breakers. But it's a gamble though. And it's a gamble that most of the time I'm not going to bother to take when there are plenty of players that can make up say spots 1 to 8 or 1 to 10 with with basic gearing. And then fill with whoever for the rest. Very easy to do. And those other players that fill up that filtered shroud too appreciate knowing that they don't have to take that gamble either.

It's just nice to have a guaranteed fast and simple run.

[LightBear]

DR breakers while a little painful to ask for a melee as I've said I will take people who are working their way up. Asking for stuff like wail, web, hold, fw for a caster is no big deal. Or suitable pot items for a healer.

The only time I'll ask a caster for a spell is when knock is needed and there isn't a capable lock picker in the group. And even then I'll only ask it if the for named caster is a wizard.

[k1ngp1n]

I've linked a +5 Metalline Flametouched Iron Greatsword when my completionist was going through her monk life to "pass" the test of having a DR breaking weapon. I was let in based on that.

If you really want to get a few eyebrows raised though, with possibly a good argument, link a Wand of Lightning Bolt or a Wand of Searing Light. Being they don't operate with physical damage and don't trigger any elemental/energy resistance they "bypass DR". It often makes for good times. :)

And then post the resulting conversation, screenshot form, for popcorn and beer time wasting.

[jwdaniels]

@ the cat who made the Mass heal rebuttal as a reference to a level 20 spell, in thinking that i think that you need to be level 17 or higher to be in shroud....

Wrong...I meant any mass healing spell, for crying out loud some one properly built using mass cure light or moderate can pull off healing shroud at level 13 or so.

I'm sorry - I just assumed that when you said mass heal you meant mass heal... You'd be amazed how many people actually do think that the only way to heal a shroud is with two clerics alternatively spamming mass heal repeatedly without taking what is happening with Harry and the melees into consideration.


I have my metalline of pg weapons and my puzzle solver but I'm stuffed if I want to bother with potential tools when I can spend my time doing things I know well.

If you learn how to do the puzzles, you can solve them faster than you can enter them into the solver.



No I don't think it's necessarily going to take an hour or fail if melees don't have DR breakers. But it's a gamble though. And it's a gamble that most of the time I'm not going to bother to take when there are plenty of players that can make up say spots 1 to 8 or 1 to 10 with with basic gearing. And then fill with whoever for the rest. Very easy to do. And those other players that fill up that filtered shroud too appreciate knowing that they don't have to take that gamble either.

It's comments like this that make me really appreciate running on Sarlona. Unless you're playing with idiots, the only gamble is whether or not Part 4 will go halfway through round 2, only a third of the way into round 2 or finish in one round. Either way you're maybe talking 5 minutes. I still contend that it takes longer waiting for someone who meets unnecessary criteria than it takes to spend time in the quest compensating for taking slightly less than optimal people without waiting.

[lazylaz]

If you learn how to do the puzzles, you can solve them faster than you can enter them into the solver.





Yeah, I've been trying to do that. There's nice instructions on the forums. I've been lucky that the puzzles I've had to do were small easy ones.

[Glenalth]

Most of the puzzle solver applications for Shroud will let you just play random puzzles.