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PestWulf
11-24-2010, 01:38 PM
Hey guys and guru's.

First off, I'm playing around and experimenting, I fully expect things to fail at some point and i'll start over, but it's fun finding things out.

To that ends, I wanted to ask how important the THF line is for damage and agro generation. For a brief bit of what i'm trying to accomplish:

I'm duoing with a friend, we will pretty much exclusively duo things. My friend wanted to play with some high damaging scimitar build and I'm trying to think outside the box and come up with some things that would keep things interesting.

For my friend, I put together a TWF Barbarian focusing on STR and CON mainly and using several toughness feats, improved critical and the like and focusing on the crit factor of scimitars. Now that TWF does nothing for speed and instead increases the chance of offhand attacks on mainhand attacks, I'm leaving it with a 20% base, plus the first TWF and the oversized TWF (which will probably drop later if it turns out the tohit isn't needed). This gives him a 40% chance to proc. I realize there are mobs that will negate crits, but with rages he'll still put out significant damage even if his crits are somehow blunted. So I'm letting him be a berserking ball of fury, loading him up with double bodyfeeder scimitars and likely a lifesteal type of docent (we are both warforged) to give additional chances to proc the 15hp buffer. I plan on letting the 15hp buffer procs fuel his Frenzy and Death Frenzy to help take the edge off as well as take out some incoming damage. I'm loading him with massive CON to extend the rage durations as best i can and with multiple toughness feats to give him a nice reserve to pull from and grant me more time to heal him.

For myself, I'm going favored soul. And what I *WANT* to do, is limit myself to as few feats as needed, but still be able to pull of the Tank/Healer role while dishing out mediocre damage with my greatsword. To help with this, I wanted to keep my spell selection to a more buff and heal oriented role and cut out a lot of the spellcasting requirements like Empower, etc. Though I may or may not get Extend, still debating that one.

So with the feat reduction, I'm trying to determine how much not having the THF line is going to hurt me. From what I understand by not having the THF line I will be missing out on increasing the base amount of splash damage and the chance to proc effects increases. My goal is to hold agro, survive handily and let my friend shred them from relatively safety. I've been experimenting with the Brute Fighting that the warforged gets and even at lvl 4 (veteran start), I'm pulling mobs off of him and keeping their attention just by swinging my sword around and getting a few glancing blows. I plan to get the Sight agro and the first damage agro if I can to combine it with the ongoing damage agro of my swings and brute fighting. My not work as well as I hope, but with us in control of our agro and in tune, I have high hopes for it.

I plan on dumping my stat points into STR mainly. I won't be an AC tank (though I should still have a mediocre AC), I plan to try and tank through DR and leverage the Favored Soul elemental DR feats combined with the warforged adamantine DR and lvl 20 ability.

I do have a question as to how often we'll be hitting mobs that will hit adamantine DR, not sure what it's like in the high levels for that, but i'm hoping it's not a complete Screw You in terms of mobs beating it.

But my real question is how much am I going to miss the THF line considering my primary goal is to tank efficiently with a DR/AC combination and my secondary goal is to be a better than average healer for the both of us. (we'll get two of the healer friend enhancements and pick up some amp gear to even out a bit eventually). I just don't know how to judge the agro and damage upgrade the THF line will give me. My friend is already averaging hits of 17+ non-crit with those scimitars and I'm still taking and holding agro with only the 10% brute fighting turned on at the moment. So it's doing great so far, Just wondering what folks thought might happen to that equation in the future.

keep in mind, this is not some optimal cherry picked build. Im sure a lot of pro's will find this ugly. But it's fun and I'm committed to finding out how it works out, so while I won't do something silly and ask you not to jeer at it, I will ask that you keep the jeering to a minimum please :)

Thanks, your insight about why my plan will or will not work would be appreciated.

Darkrok
11-24-2010, 01:44 PM
It all depends on how you spend your enhancements but Warforged get the option to add quite a bump to the THF line. Something to consider there. In addition, you'll probably be staying still a lot of the time so that he can remain flanking - a situation that favors THF.

I've got a bard that until recently was melee/heal focused (now is heal/cc focused instead). I didn't take the THF feats at all on him but my approach was different as I stayed in constant motion 'twitching' for extra attack speed.

Adrian99
11-24-2010, 01:52 PM
It depends on what feats you're giving up for the THF feats. I would start with Power Attack and IC Slashing, and if you still have extra feats lying around, then start going with the THF line.

PestWulf
11-24-2010, 01:53 PM
Hmm. True, I'd have to give up one feat to at least get the first THF feat to open up the Warforged THF line....

I'll have to look at the enhancement points again, but not doing that seems like a pretty big waste of potential damage and agro. I lose 1 DR slot, so I'll be down to 4 DR feats plus 1 Adam. Body, Toughness and the first THF.

Thanks..definitely something I should have thought about.

PestWulf
11-24-2010, 01:58 PM
It depends on what feats you're giving up for the THF feats. I would start with Power Attack and IC Slashing, and if you still have extra feats lying around, then start going with the THF line.

yeah, that would be the normal progression I would think. I'm trying to shave that down to a minimum to ensure I can leverage DR tanking early and give it a bit more punch later on with the lvl 20 enahnce.

I've used invuln. robes at lvl 4 on my mages and monks and it amazes me how much 5 little points a hit makes in the long run.

So I'd like to accomplish this without power attack and the improved crit. I like the comment made about the WF THF line. For one feat I could improve my damage and thus my agro quite a bit through enhancements ( have to go back and rework them to make sure I can afford to do this properly)

Syrophir
11-26-2010, 12:09 PM
Once you get the hang of the melee soul you see you don't want to waste 3 feats for THF-line as it offers pretty few advantages.
I prefer ada body, toughness, pow attack, extend, maxi, emp heal and quicken. No Imp Crit with Min II Greatsword.
Works pretty well simply the toughest (mobs having hard time to get you killed) build I have had in this game so far.

Consumer
11-26-2010, 12:15 PM
For my friend, I put together a TWF Barbarian focusing on STR and CON mainly and using several toughness feats, improved critical and the like and focusing on the crit factor of scimitars. Now that TWF does nothing for speed and instead increases the chance of offhand attacks on mainhand attacks, I'm leaving it with a 20% base, plus the first TWF and the oversized TWF (which will probably drop later if it turns out the tohit isn't needed). This gives him a 40% chance to proc. I realize there are mobs that will negate crits, but with rages he'll still put out significant damage even if his crits are somehow blunted. So I'm letting him be a berserking ball of fury, loading him up with double bodyfeeder scimitars and likely a lifesteal type of docent (we are both warforged) to give additional chances to proc the 15hp buffer. I plan on letting the 15hp buffer procs fuel his Frenzy and Death Frenzy to help take the edge off as well as take out some incoming damage. I'm loading him with massive CON to extend the rage durations as best i can and with multiple toughness feats to give him a nice reserve to pull from and grant me more time to heal him.

OK first things first, you need to get your friend to use a Barbarian build that will not leave him completely gimped.

Have him use one of the builds in this thread - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=287077

PestWulf
11-26-2010, 05:16 PM
EDIT: misread the link. need to re-read before I post again. Thanks :)

Consumer
11-26-2010, 05:25 PM
I'm not sure I understand where the gimp is? Are you saying that not going with some spalsh levels and staying 20barb is gimping? or is it that the build is forsaking the 2h line which the barb gets additional bonuses with that is gimping it? Or is it that I'm playing with trading of a 40% bonus to proc offhand attacks on mainhand swings in favor of more hitpoints gimping?

I would say that going 2handed is optimal for the barbarian, but not building for optimal is not the same as being gimped. The build i'm going for will be excellent damage, but not the highest obtainable. It will however have excellent surivability when combined and complimented by my DR tanking FSoul.

It will have just the same survivability as a normal Barb, a Barb with one toughness will break 800 HP, a build with 3 will break 840, there is no difference between the two.

Not taking the two weapon fighting feats and using such weak weapons is pointless and your friend will regret doing it. Going TWF is far better than THF for a Barb but you must take all of the feats. Oversized two weapon fighting is a waste of a feat on a build that can reach 60+ to hit.

Atm your build using bodyfeeder weapons and taking those feats will do at max 50% of the DPS of the builds that I provided.