To the dedicated forumers who refuse to back down...

[J1NG]

I believe I speak for everyone that we know and thank you for wanting to make a stand, but please, the issue has been raised enough in the short space of a few hours that I'm sure Turbine has taken a notice already. It will probably be discussed in the morning internally.

Please do not post any more posts that could earn yourself more infraction points or bans.

It is not productive for yourself, or the forum at large.

Allow Turbine time to make a proper response on this before making any more posts requesting answers. We've made Turbine notice, but now we need to at least allow Turbine the proper time to respond.

J1NG

PS

Tolero, please allow enough time for the persistant posters to read this before you decide to remove it, otherwise, it's one long Shroud grind for you in deleting throughout the night. :(

[camgib]

I'm sure that everyone here, especially Tolero, is irritated by this whole situation. Maybe a little time will resolve the issue.

[Thubten]

Well Turbine auto punched us in the guts. It's kinda hard not to grimace or make a loud noise.

[Ulfgaar]

Well said.
I sent my notice in about what I got in the mail...enough said. I need to give them their time to get around to that and take it from there. Screaming and putting in 300 different threads isn't going to solve anything and is actually only going to slow down any investigations or the response to what people are asking.

[Fourfingers]

Maybe a little time will resolve the issue.

You aren't implying waiting 3 days are you? :eek::eek::eek:

[Bloodcraven]

I hope it does not take more than the time it takes for the down time to end.

[kitsune_ko]

As it is around midnight now, I suspect there is little investigating or work going on at Turbine at the moment to disturb.

Hopefully at the start of their workday tomorrow there will be some sort of official comment, but I personally doubt it, there never has been one before from Turbine after all.


Kit

[J1NG]

Well Turbine auto punched us in the guts. It's kinda hard not to grimace or make a loud noise.

I understand your frustration, we were basically hit first, and then blamed for us making them hit us.

Fine.

Just or not, let Turbine make a response in good working time. You can scream and shout at Turbine then.

Turbine is a company, so there will undoubtedly be parts of it working and making decisions others won't even know about till the morning.

Let's give Turbine the time to make whatever resonse they want. If it's unsatisfactory, you can continue then. It's fruitless now to continue.

The key thing we wanted is Turbine to take notice. They clearly have in having to ask Tolero to stay up and watch over us.

Wait for the response guys.

J1NG

[Khimberlhyte]

The standard party line is all we've been given so far.

Remember the Offer Wall (SuperRewards) and the privacy issue? That made Slashdot, and a bunch of gaming sites. With the responses Tolero has been giving, I'm betting that this incident will blow up on them the same way unless serious damage control happens very soon. I'd like to see an explanation, a rollback of bans, and an apology.

It would probably be a good thing for Turbine to provide a list of which heads rolled over this debacle, and how far.

There are some seriously slow learners over there at Turbine. Delivering good customer service isn't all that difficult. It starts with respecting your customers. Heavy-handed discipline doesn't even work well on animals, so I don't see it working on gamers.

[Ulfgaar]

I hope it does not take more than the time it takes for the down time to end.

I would expect something will be said by the end of downtime. They will have all had a chance to talk and if it is something in game that needed to be fixed it could be with this downtime. I can't think of any issue I have had that wasn't addressed in a fast period.

Life goes on :)

[CaptainCameo]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to back down because I have not yet had my turn. It's not that we're upset about not getting a response yet, it's that we're upset because it seems like we're trying to be silenced.
In my personal opinion, banning people on a large scale such as this for some unknown reason is something that should be talked about. If people can't do it on the forums, then they can only do it in game.
Oh wait! They can't! BECAUSE THEY'RE BANNED!

If the mods want to avoid having to delete massive numbers of posts, then they should just make a thread for people to discuss this and delete it after this whole thing blows over. Nobody would notice the thread disappearing after a week. Everybody will notice their posts being deleted now.

[TechNoFear]

They clearly have in having to ask Tolero to stay up and watch over us.

If Turbine asked Tolero to stay up and watch the forums, doesn't that mean Turbine anticipated the commotion the emails would cause?

[Xaearth]

If Turbine asked Tolero to stay up and watch the forums, doesn't that mean Turbine anticipated the commotion the emails would cause?

I believe it's more likely Eladrin was checking the forums for whatever reason (see his posts on DoS changes), noticed **** was starting to hit the fan, and then contacted Tolero.

[sigtrent]

Seconded.

Its good to speak up a bit and send the message. Now that that is pretty much there, time to let the pot simmer a bit and see what comes out of it.

I hope we get some official word that a mistake was made or at least a solid investigation into what happened is being done. It is a game after all, important to all of us of course but no need to make life miserable over it for us or for the folks that work the game.

A measured approach to complaint is good, enough to be heard, but once heard, best to wait for the response before committing yourself in opposition.

[harold2560]

Dont give up!!!

Its not like they can ban all of us......


Oh wait....nvm

[J1NG]

If Turbine asked Tolero to stay up and watch the forums, doesn't that mean Turbine anticipated the commotion the emails would cause?

Not necessarily. That's one possible answer.

Another answer, which I feel may be the more likely scenario, is that there are "watchdogs" on the forum, and they probably noticed a massive influx of posts with the word "ban" in them. And they alerted someone, who in turn grabbed Tolero. Or maybe that someone was Tolero, who knows?

But in any event, for now, we can't say it's a conspiracy. Not enough evidence to the contrary.

J1NG

[Timber]

I believe I speak for everyone that we know and thank you for wanting to make a stand, but please, the issue has been raised enough in the short space of a few hours that I'm sure Turbine has taken a notice already. It will probably be discussed in the morning internally.

Please do not post any more posts that could earn yourself more infraction points or bans.

It is not productive for yourself, or the forum at large.

Allow Turbine time to make a proper response on this before making any more posts requesting answers. We've made Turbine notice, but now we need to at least allow Turbine the proper time to respond.

J1NG

PS

Tolero, please allow enough time for the persistant posters to read this before you decide to remove it, otherwise, it's one long Shroud grind for you in deleting throughout the night. :(

+1 Well said.

[crazedmonki]

What is most frustrating however is the number of people that have been affected by this ban not so much that we were banned. I mean seriously I never saw any posts or heard anyone in game say hey do this... or hey if you go here click this and then dance in a circle you will get this there was no such communication. Just "an investigation" into my account because mass heal and aura resulted in a lot of motes when paired with their own potions/coffee... I bet it cause we all drank the Kool-Aid

[woundweaver]

how many things have to blow up and over for people to realize turbine just doesnt care. they punish you, then silence you, all the while accepting your money for a sub quality product(talking about how things like updates and events like this can even be released past QA or testing, knowing something like this could happen). how many times has the event been live on lamma and live together now?? long enough to discover it, and shut it down to fix it, not ban half of each server with no idea of what was done wrong. sure the eula says they can. fine by me. in these hard economic times, im sure it wont be hard to find something else that could use my hard earned cash more. look at the last 3 years, and the goings on with this game. has anything really changed, except who is running what job?? the next is just as bad as the last. so, back down is your advice? i think not. if anything, im gonna report this to any mmo website, call turbine offices, warner brothers, submit tickets, bug reports and emails every chance i get during the downtime. the world around turbine will see this for what it really is.....a joke.

no matter how much i try, i just cant get the taste of this latest charade from my mouth. nah, back down i will not. tonight maybe, but tomorrow its on as soon as im awake. several of my guildies got banned tonight for doing nothing wrong knowingly. **** right im pi$$ed to the point of boiling

[Billboard]

:( sides i think tolero is letting things slide to come to a slow boil

it's no fun if they don't fight back. probably a good position from tolero. get rid of the real ***** posts and allow moderate ones so we at least have a place to vent. Lord knows i'm a power gamer i have a great arse groove goin and could probably do another couple hours but with no one to play with at turbine is not so much fun nemore :(

anger... leaving... nap time soon...

[woundweaver]

in the time "investigating", they could have fixed it while it was shut down, and laid new rules, and gave warnings.

it didnt have to come to this at all, but enough is enough. not when it affects this many people for a fault of their own

[J1NG]

no matter how much i try, i just cant get the taste of this latest charade from my mouth. nah, back down i will not. tonight maybe, but tomorrow its on as soon as im awake. several of my guildies got banned tonight for doing nothing wrong knowingly. **** right im pi$$ed to the point of boiling

I am talking about tonight. :)

You honestly think I'll tell people to back down from something if it's wrong?

I am asking for patience for now, as where Turbine is, it's in the early morning now. Still in the dark. Any response you really want will come from those who are still alseep, who don't care, or don't know this is going on, or will get informed in the morning.

Get ready to spam the boards basically if Turbine does not give a satisfactory answer regarding this issue. Anyone would.

But for now, we need to let people at Turbine to wake up and actually formulate an answer for us.

No point making posts when no one at Turbine who can make a difference even knows about this. If you really want to make a stand, wait for the morning. At least then you might catch someone's attention who can do or respond directly straight away. Right now? The posts are just dissapearing, and infractions are being thrown all over the place. In short? Your anger in the posts is wasted.

Wait for the right time to make your attack. Don't waste energy on something that produces no results.

J1NG

[Vanshilar]

I think it's not particularly productive to spam threads about it nor ask for an "official" response tonight.

My guess is that Tolero's job (during off-hours) is just to keep the forums "clean", which just means that spamming posts will just make her life difficult, but will not change much from Turbine's point of view. The most that happens is that you spam a lot of posts, Tolero deletes them and hands out infractions, maybe complain tomorrow that Turbine made her go without sleep, maybe she gets a bonus or something. Not much from a manager's standpoint because that's what the employee is paid to do. Obviously I don't know Turbine's internal policy but my guess is that Tolero is not supposed to make official announcements unless they were approved by the higher-ups, and the higher-ups are likely asleep right now (or possibly delegating responsibility i.e. who's in charge of sorting this mess out) since, you know, it's the employees that paid to keep the game running overnight and the higher-ups can deal with it in the morning.

If you're serious about it, the time to do something would be tomorrow during customer service hours when the phone lines are open. I think the managers are more willing to listen to the guys down in the account management department saying "we've got 243 guys threatening to cancel their accounts because they don't know why they were banned 15 minutes after the phone lines closed for the day yesterday" than an employee saying "I had to delete 243 threads yesterday because of guys complaining they got banned" etc.

At any rate, at some point along the line Turbine should probably move away from the current dichotomy that all players are either innocent non-exploiters or malicious exploiters, where thus a "you've been banned because you know why so we don't need to tell you" is sufficient, and figure out a way to deal with the middle "accidental exploiter" that for whatever reason did something wrong and didn't even know about it, and thus, when given a warning/ban, to say what the offense actually was (and not just pointing to some general rule) to make sure it doesn't happen again. Otherwise players just live in fear and second-guessing, and a game in which players can be banned at any time for reasons unknown is not a game that they are likely to invest a lot of time or money in. The other part of course is to make sure when Turbine does their software filtering for accounts that did exploits, that there is some way to measure whether or not innocents are being caught in the net (i.e. the amount of Type 1 errors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_1_error#Type_I_error)) although in practice, that's somewhat difficult (namely, if you had a way to measure the innocents, that would just be part of the routine to capture the exploiters in the first place). And of course, not implementing mass bans when the phone lines are closed. Given that these types of bans were not urgent (since they were for something that has already ended, not something that's still in progress), the ban could've just as easily been implemented during normal working hours.

Unfortunately companies generally won't bother to change current practices unless there is sufficient reason to do so. Hitting them in the pocketbook (or via reputation such as the BBB) is one of the few ways to actually spur change. Spamming threads on the forums does not.

[CaptainCameo]

If there is no proper answer, I am prepared with several emails and computers to create accounts just to post about it.

[WolfPack]

If you're serious about it, the time to do something would be tomorrow during customer service hours when the phone lines are open...

Unfortunately, they chose to do the mass ban at around the time the customer service lines closed. They also chose to do it without warning of any kind with the result that any unfairly banned Australian players will be unable to play for a considerable period of time (morning in US is well after midnight here).

It seems to me that they should be waking people up to sort this out sooner since by and large it seems to be a series of very bad judgement calls on Turbine's behalf.

[Natashaelle]

I do not have the **slightest** idea what this is supposed to be about :( :( :(

Is simply *playing* DDO an exploit of some kind ? <confused> :rolleyes:

[AyumiAmakusa]

I do not have the **slightest** idea what this is supposed to be about :( :( :(

Is simply *playing* DDO an exploit of some kind ? <confused> :rolleyes:

You have better luck asking the alternate forums.

[WolfPack]

I do not have the **slightest** idea what this is supposed to be about :( :( :(

Is simply *playing* DDO an exploit of some kind ? <confused> :rolleyes:

Neither does anyone else. There are 2 theories:

1. Playing DDO is an exploit.

2. Not playing DDO (piking) is an exploit.

[Natashaelle]

You have better luck asking the alternate forums.

Participating in the alternate forums is like self-inflicted torture, so no thanx... :)

[wingmaker]

I'm sad, and confused.

[Bloodcraven]

If turbine does not provide a place to vent then we will go elsewhere to vent.

This happened last night and this morning. Punishing people for showing their frustration and or anger in the only way they know how will push these people to spread their message across the internet instead of keeping the discussion here within the realm of turbine.

[Flavilandile]

If turbine does not provide a place to vent then we will go elsewhere to vent.

Such a place already exists.

PM Strakeln.

[Kirlian]

If you are not happy/satisfied use that link



as few people already did, so when they come to work they have something to make them spill their coffee

[Vistram]

I feel left out. I received no email :(

[Aerendil]

You know, every time I think of logging back into DDO, I come to the forums and see something such as this that completely turns me off.

In a game where dc'ing, or using cheezy tactics, or simply being forced to farm content over, and over, and over again is what a gamer is expected to do.... is it any surprise if people found a loophole? I mean, seriously? And what constitutes exploiting, after all - because I can name a good dozen "exploits" that gamers have used since the dawn of time and which Turbine is aware of, then never resulted in bans and took a long time to get fixed.
(i.e. VoN2 - fall off the bridge? no worries, just d/c! That only took what.... 2 years to fix?)

/rolls eyes

[woundweaver]

my suggestion, now that i slept on it, is this. call them. fill the phone lines. cancel accounts. take your grievances outside of turbine to the media public. google is full atm about this buzz on the game boards. word is getting out fast. here they just silence you and ban you. you, the player, ultimately have the power. make them realize it

im out

[Eladiun]

Agreed this is a poor poor example of customer service. I would suggest making your feelings know to people that matter....

http://www.bbb.org/boston/business-r...wood-ma-81889/ (http://www.bbb.org/boston/business-reviews/video-games-wholesale-and-manufacturers/turbine-inc-in-westwood-ma-81889/)
turbinesupportexperience@turbine.com - Customer Service (turbinesupportexperience@turbine.com)


...I did.

[Aeolwind]

You know, every time I think of logging back into DDO, I come to the forums and see something such as this that completely turns me off.

In a game where dc'ing, or using cheezy tactics, or simply being forced to farm content over, and over, and over again is what a gamer is expected to do.... is it any surprise if people found a loophole? I mean, seriously? And what constitutes exploiting, after all - because I can name a good dozen "exploits" that gamers have used since the dawn of time and which Turbine is aware of, then never resulted in bans and took a long time to get fixed.
(i.e. VoN2 - fall off the bridge? no worries, just d/c! That only took what.... 2 years to fix?)

/rolls eyes

That is the funniest part, most of us have no idea why lol.

[Tolero]

This is still being reviewed this morning. In the interest of staying in the guidelines, make sure that if you have questions please submit them via the in-game support contact form which can be found at the following link. Also make sure your email address is correct in the event that we need to make contact with you:
http://www.ddo.com/ddosupport/in-game-support

[Angamarth]

Thank you Tolero

[RichardWood]

At last, thank you for stating that this is actually being reviewed.

[Agarwaen]

This is still being reviewed this morning...

Thank the DDO gods!

[woundweaver]

oddly, im now afraid to ddoor in pt 4 of shroud now. even though thats been around forever :)

[Sohryu]

This is still being reviewed this morning. In the interest of staying in the guidelines, make sure that if you have questions please submit them via the in-game support contact form which can be found at the following link. Also make sure your email address is correct in the event that we need to make contact with you:
http://www.ddo.com/ddosupport/in-game-support

OMG an official response.

[Burtle]

OMG an official response.

LOLZ...u cracks me up:D

[sirgog]

A serious forum ****storm was the start to the DDO malware service (Offer Wall) being removed.



I think it's not particularly productive to spam threads about it nor ask for an "official" response tonight.

My guess is that Tolero's job (during off-hours) is just to keep the forums "clean", which just means that spamming posts will just make her life difficult, but will not change much from Turbine's point of view. The most that happens is that you spam a lot of posts, Tolero deletes them and hands out infractions, maybe complain tomorrow that Turbine made her go without sleep, maybe she gets a bonus or something. Not much from a manager's standpoint because that's what the employee is paid to do. Obviously I don't know Turbine's internal policy but my guess is that Tolero is not supposed to make official announcements unless they were approved by the higher-ups, and the higher-ups are likely asleep right now (or possibly delegating responsibility i.e. who's in charge of sorting this mess out) since, you know, it's the employees that paid to keep the game running overnight and the higher-ups can deal with it in the morning.

If you're serious about it, the time to do something would be tomorrow during customer service hours when the phone lines are open. I think the managers are more willing to listen to the guys down in the account management department saying "we've got 243 guys threatening to cancel their accounts because they don't know why they were banned 15 minutes after the phone lines closed for the day yesterday" than an employee saying "I had to delete 243 threads yesterday because of guys complaining they got banned" etc.

At any rate, at some point along the line Turbine should probably move away from the current dichotomy that all players are either innocent non-exploiters or malicious exploiters, where thus a "you've been banned because you know why so we don't need to tell you" is sufficient, and figure out a way to deal with the middle "accidental exploiter" that for whatever reason did something wrong and didn't even know about it, and thus, when given a warning/ban, to say what the offense actually was (and not just pointing to some general rule) to make sure it doesn't happen again. Otherwise players just live in fear and second-guessing, and a game in which players can be banned at any time for reasons unknown is not a game that they are likely to invest a lot of time or money in. The other part of course is to make sure when Turbine does their software filtering for accounts that did exploits, that there is some way to measure whether or not innocents are being caught in the net (i.e. the amount of Type 1 errors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_1_error#Type_I_error)) although in practice, that's somewhat difficult (namely, if you had a way to measure the innocents, that would just be part of the routine to capture the exploiters in the first place). And of course, not implementing mass bans when the phone lines are closed. Given that these types of bans were not urgent (since they were for something that has already ended, not something that's still in progress), the ban could've just as easily been implemented during normal working hours.

Unfortunately companies generally won't bother to change current practices unless there is sufficient reason to do so. Hitting them in the pocketbook (or via reputation such as the BBB) is one of the few ways to actually spur change. Spamming threads on the forums does not.

[Eladiun]

A serious forum ****storm was the start to the DDO malware service (Offer Wall) being removed.

/nods

[pharky]

At first I assumed that I was unaffected because I could still log in. Then I found a warning mail and I have this feeling that almost everyone is affected. I recall dcing once because of the lag. That's it. I believe that a lot of people are wronged and should not have been NABED. someone must have been drunk from monday night partying.

[k1ngp1n]

/nods

/nods as well.

[ridicOne]

the sad part of this whole situation is that it seems to affect mostly the vet players of the game. players that probably never have had any infractions with turbine before and have been around for multiple years. if you owned a company would you want your main customers to be given discounts so they keep coming back? or just the new ones that come into your store?

[Raiderone000]

This is still being reviewed this morning. In the interest of staying in the guidelines, make sure that if you have questions please submit them via the in-game support contact form which can be found at the following link. Also make sure your email address is correct in the event that we need to make contact with you:
http://www.ddo.com/ddosupport/in-game-support

Thank you for the response.

But that doesn't sooth my anger, frustration and utter disappointment in Turbine.

If i wasn't on the 33% off Sub, I'd quit right now!

P.S. I don't shoot the messanger!

[Lundivar]

Agreed this is a poor poor example of customer service. I would suggest making your feelings know to people that matter....

http://www.bbb.org/boston/business-r...wood-ma-81889/ (http://www.bbb.org/boston/business-reviews/video-games-wholesale-and-manufacturers/turbine-inc-in-westwood-ma-81889/)
turbinesupportexperience@turbine.com - Customer Service (turbinesupportexperience@turbine.com)


...I did.

Yes, this seems like the best 1st step. People should take the same 5 mins it take to write a complaining post here & send one there instead. (Yes I already wrote one before anyone remakrs :p )

Y.

[Raiderone000]

At first I assumed that I was unaffected because I could still log in. Then I found a warning mail and I have this feeling that almost everyone is affected. I recall dcing once because of the lag. That's it. I believe that a lot of people are wronged and should not have been NABED. someone must have been drunk from monday night partying.

Nope. I believe it's a very upset Patriot fan. Some Patriot fans are fanatic's!

Patriots got punished by the Browns this weekend.

[Cam_Neely]

Nope. I believe it's a very upset Patriot fan. Some Patriot fans are fanatic's!

Patriots got punished by the Browns this weekend.

I hate Mangini. I hate the Browns. And I hate the Pats when they decide not to play a decent game

[TheBearNZ]

For those who aren't in the US or can't be bothered to wait in a phone queue, I suspect Tolero was pointing us in a direction to vent our frustrations in an official manner. Be nice in your venting, no point having your message filtered because of language.

Simple enough - if you have been affected by this, make a complaint via the channels Tolero posted (took me 60 secs to do so) http://www.ddo.com/ddosupport/in-game-support

4 years and I finnally got my first warning - to be honest, there have been a number of previous occasions where I was expecting one (although I suspect far to many people were having the same fun :P) - but for Halloween event ????

Hell being an offpeak player it was taking me 4-5hrs before the chamber would open, can you imagine the grinding hell that was :D (did not even get enough scales to make an epic)

[Raiderone000]

I hate Mangini. I hate the Browns. And I hate the Pats when they decide not to play a decent game

Don't like him either. But when he beats the Patriots, I like him.

J E T S......

[Delt]

Filthy, filthy exploiters!

Though, I will agree that Turbine's customer service is the worst in the industry (that I've experienced). Get any sort of disciplinary action and you receive a vague canned email -- if you want more details, be prepared for hours of work and likely weeks before a resolution/answer.

They set these hoops up, I guess, because they figure you will give up. After all, when you are dealing with a 1-3 day ban, what's the point?

Sound logic, albeit incredibly pathetic.

[Shenpet]

This is still being reviewed this morning. In the interest of staying in the guidelines, make sure that if you have questions please submit them via the in-game support contact form which can be found at the following link. Also make sure your email address is correct in the event that we need to make contact with you:
http://www.ddo.com/ddosupport/in-game-support

This is all well and good but it will take them 3 days to look at my email by that time my ban will be lifted. So nothing gets done and yes iv sent an email.

[JOTMON]

What is most frustrating however is the number of people that have been affected by this ban not so much that we were banned. I mean seriously I never saw any posts or heard anyone in game say hey do this... or hey if you go here click this and then dance in a circle you will get this there was no such communication. Just "an investigation" into my account because mass heal and aura resulted in a lot of motes when paired with their own potions/coffee... I bet it cause we all drank the Kool-Aid

That's the real problem here no one really undestands why they got warnings or ban's, we were all playing a new instanace with non-standard combat and party methods. and hmm surprise, letters and ban's all go out just after close of office hours ...Turbines careless programming and followup with the massive banhammer enhanced with cleave, whirlwind and glancing blow has left us all reeling..

with NWN online coming out apparently to be based on an upcoming trilogy of books by R.A. Salvatore slated for some time in 2011(unfortunately its Atari so bet on late 2012). Atari/Cryptic must be having an orgasim right now (just keep peeving off the dedicated DDO base, come on Turbine come on..)

[TheBearNZ]

Delt - I would agree if only I knew what I got done for

I don't expect details but at least something that I can make sure I don't do again

e.g. You have got a warning for "Guild Favor Farming" or "Excessive Mote Farming" maybe even "Spending too much TP"..... etc.

NOT: You have got a warning for playing during the Mabar event ....

As I said above, there have been occasions when I knew I was having too much fun and expected the big stick. But Mabar was just a 2 day grind fest with not much to show (at least for me), so I seriously want to know what I did.

I have sent Turbine my official complaint ... don't expect anything back, but at least I have made my voice known.

4 years in this game and I don't show my face much around here ... but I am really ticked off about this :mad:

[JOTMON]

This is all well and good but it will take them 3 days to look at my email by that time my ban will be lifted. So nothing gets done and yes iv sent an email.

And i bet thats the part they are counting on. by the time anyone actually gets trhough to someone and is told.. oh we cant help you, you need to submit that appeal in writing and in 3 days after we receive it we will review it and... oh wait nvm the ban is over.. you can go back to playing the game. have a nice day...

[Crestfallen]

I don't play DDO and haven't in a long time, but given that I do have some confidence that Turbine does honestly want to know what outsiders might think here goes.

If the exploit really is game breaking (few are) fix the exploit. If it isn't, then reward the creative solution. Developer's need to step back and quit policing the internal stuff so much. It's a game, it exists to be enjoyed.

I understand that we as gamers should vote with our money, but for now there is not a single MMO out that isn't being tightly policed by development teams. There should be so many ways to creatively solve problems that players are struggling to figure out which one is the best/most fun... not struggling to figure out how to use their abilities in a way that wont get them a suspension.

Thing is, I'm very much against cheaters, but there's a massive difference between a player that spots a way to creatively solve a difficult encounter by taking advantage of the existing rules and one that uses an external program to modify the rules of the game. The former is called problem solving, the latter is called cheating. There's a difference and development teams need to realize that so that the industry can move forward.

It seems like we're stuck in an endless loop of restricting further and further the options available to solve encounters... instead of providing players more options for solving encounters and using their skills we keep stepping back further and further every year so players are forced to think less and less. Gaming is becoming more and more of a mindless activity every year.

If the devs messed up the encounter and QA didn't spot it, too bad. Penalizing some guy that took advantage of the QA screw up is a terrible practice. Punish the QA team, not the customer.

[TheBearNZ]

I agree Crest.

Actually the Devs need to play a bit more with the existing content - like what they did with VON 6.

I am sure it is simpler to modify the rules in an existing quest than to make hundreds of new ones.

I think I have been through 4 or 5 different ways to kill Velah as they changed the mechanics.

I think it is fun to step into an old quest and "whompf" get hit by something I was not expecting and have to figure out a new way to solve it.

Maybe not all the quests, but at least the raids and some of the key quests should get overhauled once in a while (and not just new traps and monsters)

At the end of the day it is a Players vs Devs slugging match (who can outwit the other). Now if it is within the existing mechanics / boundaries of the game FUN and SWEET. Sometimes the players screw up other times it is the Devs, but slugging below the belt becuase you got outsmarted on something is not fun :(

[Drakhfury]

I don't intent to add to the volume of unhappy posts already filling this forum but i do have some thoughts:

of those affected, how many played during the "preview" night? I did but 3 of my RL friends missed the preview and non of them have been banned despite grouping with me during the actual event almost every night.

How many here experienced server side lag that resulted in failing a dragon run, not actual disconnect but lag where you where unable to move/fight/cast spells and could only watch as the gargoyles destroyed the alter?

If the above two are true for all of us I would not really be happy with just a removal of the ban. I would expect some compensation. The idea of being banned while enjoying a preview of an event would be shocking to say the least.

I will make my complaint via direct email/in-game-support as mentioned but I will be requesting some form of compensation for this.
My reason? I actually used my limited turbine points and invested money in more points to experience the most this event had to offer, such as purchasing no fewer than 2 ethereal keys. Yet for my support all I receive is a 3 day ban! - If i was a VIP I would probably be walking away from Turbine completely.

[Angamarth]

I don't intent to add to the volume of unhappy posts already filling this forum but i do have some thoughts:

of those affected, how many played during the "preview" night? I did but 3 of my RL friends missed the preview and non of them have been banned despite grouping with me during the actual event almost every night.

How many here experienced server side lag that resulted in failing a dragon run, not actual disconnect but lag where you where unable to move/fight/cast spells and could only watch as the gargoyles destroyed the alter?

If the above two are true for all of us I would not really be happy with just a removal of the ban. I would expect some compensation. The idea of being banned while enjoying a preview of an event would be shocking to say the least.

I will make my complaint via direct email/in-game-support as mentioned but I will be requesting some form of compensation for this.
My reason? I actually used my limited turbine points and invested money in more points to experience the most this event had to offer, such as purchasing no fewer than 2 ethereal keys. Yet for my support all I receive is a 3 day ban! - If i was a VIP I would probably be walking away from Turbine completely.

I did not play during the preview.

[Natashaelle]

I don't play DDO and haven't in a long time, but given that I do have some confidence that Turbine does honestly want to know what outsiders might think here goes.

Thanx for your contribution :)

When I first opened my eyes this morning, I had no knowledge whatsoever about the nature of this exploit, nor what benefit it provided --- having received one of those e-mails and an infringement on my account, I have naturally been researching what it is that i am supposed to have done wrong. Plz don't ask me for any detailed info... although what I *personally* did wrong was NOTHING WHATSOEVER in relation to the exploit in question ...


If the exploit really is game breaking (few are) fix the exploit. If it isn't, then reward the creative solution. Developer's need to step back and quit policing the internal stuff so much. It's a game, it exists to be enjoyed.

I understand that we as gamers should vote with our money, but for now there is not a single MMO out that isn't being tightly policed by development teams. There should be so many ways to creatively solve problems that players are struggling to figure out which one is the best/most fun... not struggling to figure out how to use their abilities in a way that wont get them a suspension.

Thing is, I'm very much against cheaters, but there's a massive difference between a player that spots a way to creatively solve a difficult encounter by taking advantage of the existing rules and one that uses an external program to modify the rules of the game. The former is called problem solving, the latter is called cheating.

erm, in this case, and insofar as I understand it (which is to a *limited degree* given that I did not personally engage in the behaviour in question), some players cheated by repeatedly exploiting a game bug to gain multiples of an advantage intended by design to be singular, despite the very CLEAR instructions in the ToS that this behaviour will not be tolerated.

Turbine has been shoddy and overly broad in its attempts to find people having cheated in this manner, to use a different word, "incompetent", and they have put many complete innocents into the naughty corner.

I personally **appear** to have been caught in the net because I had a game crash -- that's right, having a game crash at exactly the "wrong" time from systems stress, caused by the imperfectly well developed game software, gets you an infraction. :rolleyes: :mad:


There's a difference and development teams need to realize that so that the industry can move forward.

It seems like we're stuck in an endless loop of restricting further and further the options available to solve encounters... instead of providing players more options for solving encounters and using their skills we keep stepping back further and further every year so players are forced to think less and less. Gaming is becoming more and more of a mindless activity every year.

To be fair, those people deliberately engaging in the exploit were not just gaining undue advantages from the game, but they were also providing extra stress on the game servers, and giving a veneer of guilt to anyone associated with that behaviour, including whichever very unlucky people happened by pure chance to be in the same instance or player group as they were ... :(

Besides, this isn't **gaming** -- it's malicious game systems hacking on the part of these individuals.

Having said that ...


If the devs messed up the encounter and QA didn't spot it, too bad. Penalizing some guy that took advantage of the QA screw up is a terrible practice. Punish the QA team, not the customer.

... I couldn't agree more with your **excellent** conclusion.

While they're at it, punish the guy who handed out these infractions to all and sundry, rather than actually finding out who is guilty, and who is innocent.

[sephiroth1084]

This is still being reviewed this morning. In the interest of staying in the guidelines, make sure that if you have questions please submit them via the in-game support contact form which can be found at the following link. Also make sure your email address is correct in the event that we need to make contact with you:
http://www.ddo.com/ddosupport/in-game-support
This whole debacle would have been less ridiculous if, when getting banned, people were at least informed as to what action they took to warrant the discipline.

[blametroi]

I believe I speak for everyone that we know and thank you for wanting to make a stand, but please, the issue has been raised enough in the short space of a few hours that I'm sure Turbine has taken a notice already. It will probably be discussed in the morning internally.

Please do not post any more posts that could earn yourself more infraction points or bans.

It is not productive for yourself, or the forum at large.

Allow Turbine time to make a proper response on this before making any more posts requesting answers. We've made Turbine notice, but now we need to at least allow Turbine the proper time to respond.

J1NG

PS

Tolero, please allow enough time for the persistant posters to read this before you decide to remove it, otherwise, it's one long Shroud grind for you in deleting throughout the night. :(

I have to disagree with you.

Infraction points aside, this was no accident (the email mentioned investigation) and then it was sent to hundreds (or thousands?) of players. There was plenty of time for Turbine to review and recognize what they were about to do and this seems to be our only way to voice our displeasure with how this was handled.

I'd like to know what I allegedly did.

I'd like Turbine to know I'm offended.

I'd like them to know I'm considering dropping VIP subscription.

I'd like them to know why I'm considering.

Is there any other way to let them know?

Does anyone expect a real response to their fill in the blank web form that the email directed us to?

[Driszt]

This is still being reviewed this morning. In the interest of staying in the guidelines, make sure that if you have questions please submit them via the in-game support contact form which can be found at the following link. Also make sure your email address is correct in the event that we need to make contact with you:
http://www.ddo.com/ddosupport/in-game-support

Pls Turbine/Tolero,

with all the fuzz about the "Event-Incident"... pls don't forget that this is a thing of the past and that there are still a lot of EUbies out there waiting for their "off-shore-toons" to finaly arrive tomorrow... since this is the 7th BUISINESS-Day ;-)

Would be nice of you Turbine-Stuff to direct "some" manpower in this direction ;-))

Greetings,

Driszt

[smatt]

This is still being reviewed this morning. In the interest of staying in the guidelines, make sure that if you have questions please submit them via the in-game support contact form which can be found at the following link. Also make sure your email address is correct in the event that we need to make contact with you:
http://www.ddo.com/ddosupport/in-game-support

5 steps forward... Huge leap backwards...

[Ducaster]

I and the wife had a good Mabar experience (well lost Ethereal Keys on the early bug but apart from that..) Played for hours and hardly got enough motes for more than a L8 Cloak for each of us on a couple of Toons. SO it goes..

Still I have read enough on these forums to get the gist that T-bine has come over all heavy handed LOUD AND CLEAR. So here are a few thoughts that have occurred after reading some posts here and elsewhere from somebody who did NOT get either a ban an email (other than an apology for the lost Keys).

In the law we get "Accused" of a crime then tried for it. Its ridiculous to punish somebody and not tell them why as seems to have happened here. Presumably you've fixed the Bug now so why not mention it? Besides Mabar is over (isn't it) so its academic right?? No? I see you just released some patch notes today outlining some fixes to the Mabar event. Huh? I assume your bringing it back sometime then yes? Well after your broadside that has damned both saint and sinner alike I shall be highly interested if a comeback event is as well attended as the last... After all going into the graveyard it appears might mean your character won't come back for several days if at all. After your actions I won't do the Mabar event again I don't think; other than to trade in the odd few skulls and opals I forgot were in my bags when the last festival ended.

If there is a Bug (sorry exploit!) in your software Turbine. May one ask Who put it there... They have the prime fault in such cases... Ah but then you can't ban yourselves can you? (Can you?)

If Anyone discovers and Bug/exploit and fails to report it then I can understand thats an offence and near cheating. But pray tell how can you be sure that using the said technique IS A BUG and not a legit and clever way to solve an in game problem. Some may be obvious, but it looks like this one wasn't. If this nameless exploit (that your QC team missed as did the whole of Lama not to mention the whole programming team) came up and a player spread the word of how to do it to his or her guildies/friends etc then you have a case against THEM ALONE, but I submit nobody else. In any game if I get a "Tip" I may well check it out. I think it unlikely I'd not look into it "Just in case its a Bug"

All in all I think I much more likely to just ignore any bugs I may come across from now on. Clearly if its a bad one I'll just get banned, if that happens I can be sure it IS a bug and report it next time I'm allowed on! Now thats a novel way of getting feedback from your "fans"but it is what I feel your heading towards here.

Its times like these that makes be SO GLAD I'm only premium not subscription. I can't conceive of ANY POSSIBLE Way I could be induced to getting a subscription after this PR Debacle. No Turbine not even if you gave me a year free would I subscribe to you now. It is abundantly clear you have small regard to your customers. I'll just get the odd point package now and again thanks and play the game on my terms.

My heart goes out to both the abruptly Banned and our friend Tolero who has ended up having to referee this sna-fu. I hope Turbine will explain to us what happened and what they are doing to resolve it in simple terms. This is a **** fine game, and nobody I think, wants to see it suffer because of foolishness on either side of the fence.

[Aussielegend]

Thanx for your contribution :)

When I first opened my eyes this morning, I had no knowledge whatsoever about the nature of this exploit, nor what benefit it provided --- having received one of those e-mails and an infringement on my account, I have naturally been researching what it is that i am supposed to have done wrong. Plz don't ask me for any detailed info... although what I *personally* did wrong was NOTHING WHATSOEVER in relation to the exploit in question ...



erm, in this case, and insofar as I understand it (which is to a *limited degree* given that I did not personally engage in the behaviour in question), some players cheated by repeatedly exploiting a game bug to gain multiples of an advantage intended by design to be singular, despite the very CLEAR instructions in the ToS that this behaviour will not be tolerated.

Turbine has been shoddy and overly broad in its attempts to find people having cheated in this manner, to use a different word, "incompetent", and they have put many complete innocents into the naughty corner.

I personally **appear** to have been caught in the net because I had a game crash -- that's right, having a game crash at exactly the "wrong" time from systems stress, caused by the imperfectly well developed game software, gets you an infraction. :rolleyes: :mad:



To be fair, those people deliberately engaging in the exploit were not just gaining undue advantages from the game, but they were also providing extra stress on the game servers, and giving a veneer of guilt to anyone associated with that behaviour, including whichever very unlucky people happened by pure chance to be in the same instance or player group as they were ... :(

Besides, this isn't **gaming** -- it's malicious game systems hacking on the part of these individuals.

Having said that ...



... I couldn't agree more with your **excellent** conclusion.

While they're at it, punish the guy who handed out these infractions to all and sundry, rather than actually finding out who is guilty, and who is innocent.


i reject this theory also to my memory i dont THINK i got disconnected during the event but it wasnt noteworthy so i dont know for sure and to disconnect myself on purpose? you have got to be kidding me the drivers on my computer preclude that solution as if the client crashs or i exit it once i decide to log out if i want to have any DAMNED SOUND i have to restart the entire machine becouse even windows cant use my sound hardware.

really sick and tired of the speculation and guesses i got hit with the stick and all it did was make me exceedingly angry.

[Raiderone000]

i reject this theory also to my memory i dont THINK i got disconnected during the event but it wasnt noteworthy so i dont know for sure and to disconnect myself on purpose? you have got to be kidding me the drivers on my computer preclude that solution as if the client crashs or i exit it once i decide to log out if i want to have any DAMNED SOUND i have to restart the entire machine becouse even windows cant use my sound hardware.

really sick and tired of the speculation and guesses i got hit with the stick and all it did was make me exceedingly angry.

I mean really I DC all the time if I log in and out too many toons. It's been an unresolved issue by DDO.
I usually DC's when i jump into desert or such.

[ashokia]

I am extremely upset by the fact that as a long-standing player who has invested thousands of dollars into this game I am being treated in such a manner. I have no idea what I did wrong. The email was generic in the extreme. I didn't receive a ban but I am threatened with permanent suspension of my account if in the future I break any more rules. And still I have no idea what rules I am to have broken!

I am also very frustrated by the lack of response and the careful planning that Turbine obviously took to keep us all in the dark. Not only did they wait to send the emails out until after Customer Service was closed, they had someone watching the forums all night long, deleting our posts, not answering our questions.

It is like a parent spanking their child without explaining to them what they did wrong. We cannot learn from our mistakes if we do not know what our mistakes are. I have gone through official channels in the past when I have had problems and for the most part, I have experienced the worst customer service imaginable.

I submitted my ticket as I was told to, but I have no confidence that I will receive any sort of response. I am going to the Better Business Bureau to lodge a formal complaint about this, and I hope all of you will do the same. They think that we cannot hurt them. They think they will survive losing a few VIP accounts. They need to be reminded that without us, they wouldn't have a successful game.

I think they will be very much surprised at how much revenue they lose over this. I've put up with a lot from Turbine in the past and kept playing, but this is the most immature, irresponsible decision they've made to date, and they deserve to be punished for it.

[Sarezar]

This is still being reviewed this morning. In the interest of staying in the guidelines, make sure that if you have questions please submit them via the in-game support contact form which can be found at the following link. Also make sure your email address is correct in the event that we need to make contact with you:
http://www.ddo.com/ddosupport/in-game-support

Tolero, if you are blind and the ATM gave you a 20 instead of 10 dollar note, should you be put to jail if you don't notice it?

If your boss suspended you from work because you didn't use the color he had in his mind in your posts but when you ask him he can't tell you the colour, would that be fair to you?

I don't expect an answer of course, and I did use the in game support form to complain, but maybe next time you will actually "investigate" who was at fault. That email hurt.

[Billboard]

This is still being reviewed this morning. In the interest of staying in the guidelines, make sure that if you have questions please submit them via the in-game support contact form which can be found at the following link. Also make sure your email address is correct in the event that we need to make contact with you:
http://www.ddo.com/ddosupport/in-game-support

really? that's it?

how bout an official post...

Dear Players,

"We realize there is something wierd going on with regards to the mabar event and it's subsequent banning of accounts. By all reports, with this happening to so many players accross so many servers this can't possibly be working correctly. We are currently looking into the situation and appreciate your patience as we find out what exactly happened."

Customer service tubine. look into it. maybe if someone over there got up before noon and posted something like this to let us know that you are at least officially aware of a problem. Having to use the dev tracker to find any sort of reply to this issue is a little rediculous. Not to mention the people not in the know experiencing this issue that will have to hunt for your oh so "official response".

God how do you people even survive as a company. it's like 3 people in a basement that have never had any sort of contact with a competant successful company before.

[ashokia]

I've cancelled my VIP subscription. I am not paying them to treat me like a child.

[rodarius]

Tbh, dropping your subscription before you left them a chance to actually investigate and respond is kind a childish.

If there is no action from Turbine during today I would understand as the sheer amount of bans seems to be not quite right, but i think you are overreacting.

From my point of view I would recommend to suspend the bans for now, and reapply once the data has been evaluated to those who deserve it, but even that will need a confirmation you probably cannot get within 3 or 4 hours, if you need to derive actions and maybe an explanation from it.

[Billboard]

Tbh, dropping your subscription before you left them a chance to actually investigate and respond is kind a childish.

If there is no action from Turbine during today I would understand as the sheer amount of bans seems to be not quite right, but i think you are overreacting.

From my point of view I would recommend to suspend the bans for now, and reapply once the data has been evaluated to those who deserve it, but even that will need a confirmation you probably cannot get within 3 or 4 hours, if you need to derive actions and maybe an explanation from it.

not trying to be arguementative here on purpose. i'm angry at turbine and don't want to argue with others on the forums.

i do believe however that this is a "tip of the iceburg" situation for many players. after years of shoddy customer service, policys and other such nonsense from turbine. i think quite a number of players have just had enough. there's only so much little things you can pile up before 1 of them pushes you over the edge.

I even had a guildy say to me that he would consider moving to WoW just so he didn't have to deal with such a mom and pop operation. Shocked the hell out of me as i know the leveling process at least for WoW is not his cup of tea. He's been a ddo supporter for years and years now.

[rodarius]

I do understand, and I have quit my european account for exactly those reasons. But I would still not judge an action before there really was time to react on both sides.

If there are issues (which I havent really had any so far with Turbine and the customer support, measured on my european standards, its always been extremly fast here for me and mostly helpful) I tend to judge them on the reaction to an error/mistake instead of the actual happening.

[ashokia]

I have been playing since Dec of 2007. I have been a VIP the entire time. I have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars on this game. In all this time I have received unsatisfying customer service whenever I had a problem of any kind. I have reported several bugs with no reply from Turbine. I have had to fight to get DDO store points back when the system has bugged out. Through all this, I remained a loyal player.

The email last night was the tip of the iceburg for me. I do not think I am being childish in the least. I am upset and angry that this happened, and happened in such a way as to deflect any response for an entire night. If they were going to respond, they should have done so when the patch update went up. Even a generic, we are looking into the situation, please be patient, might have diverted my anger for awhile, but no such message has been sent.

I am not banned. But I am threatened with my account being permanently banned if I ever break another rule and I have no idea what rule it was that I broke in the first place. I'm not paying them to treat me like this. If you are, then good luck to you. Maybe you'll be in this position a few years from now.

[gryphonxxii]

At least you get responses from wow CS.

[Pfold]

If your boss suspended you from work because you didn't use the color he had in his mind in your posts but when you ask him he can't tell you the colour, would that be fair to you?




We're using new coversheets for our TPS reports. Didn't you get the memo?

[strum4]

I have been playing since Dec of 2007. I have been a VIP the entire time. I have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars on this game. In all this time I have received unsatisfying customer service whenever I had a problem of any kind. I have reported several bugs with no reply from Turbine. I have had to fight to get DDO store points back when the system has bugged out. Through all this, I remained a loyal player.

The email last night was the tip of the iceburg for me. I do not think I am being childish in the least. I am upset and angry that this happened, and happened in such a way as to deflect any response for an entire night. If they were going to respond, they should have done so when the patch update went up. Even a generic, we are looking into the situation, please be patient, might have diverted my anger for awhile, but no such message has been sent.

I am not banned. But I am threatened with my account being permanently banned if I ever break another rule and I have no idea what rule it was that I broke in the first place. I'm not paying them to treat me like this. If you are, then good luck to you. Maybe you'll be in this position a few years from now.

I agree. This is become a joke. My account is still banned and no one has any clue what this is about. Its been over 15 hours since this started. I had to create a free account just to post.

[capluke]

This is still being reviewed this morning. In the interest of staying in the guidelines, make sure that if you have questions please submit them via the in-game support contact form which can be found at the following link. Also make sure your email address is correct in the event that we need to make contact with you:
http://www.ddo.com/ddosupport/in-game-support

Hey Tolero,

How is the review going? Any nuggets to report? Lots of inquiring minds wanna know.

[therobb]

People should definitely be told the reason for their ban.

[J1NG]

Update and official word here guys:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=285262

J1NG