Melee PvP -large scale buy in

[bendover]

Before I even start yes PvP is lame and yes it's dead. But let's take a minute from our every day raid and epic grinding to having a little different fun. I'd like to get about 12 melees together for next Saturday evening for a little tournament. Ways I've been considering to make this as even as possible as well as stipulations.

You're character MUST fight in melee combat. There is to be no ranged damage whether that's with a bow, thrower or spells. Any class is welcome. There is however to be no offensive spells, no debuffs of any kind. As far as buffing only self buffs are allowed. If your character can cast it either through spells, UMD, wand, pots (excluding DDO store pots, we aren't spending our own money here) it can be used to buff.

While you're in your fight healing is accepted. You, however, cannot use tavern food and you cannot sit around bunny hopping UMD heal scrolls constantly. A back away from melee + heal scroll pop and back into melee is acceptable. No running away so someone has to chase you to try to hit you will not be accepted. You are allowed to use all other healing at your builds exposal. Lay on hands, halfling dragonmarks, SP are allowed but only to as many as your build has. You cannot use a tavern regen to continue the healing.

As far as the actual fights are dictated everyone in the group will roll 1d100. The highest roll and the lowest roll will be paired. The second highest roll and the second lowest roll will be paid, so on and so forth. To attempt to try to remove as much "luck" as possible from deaths fights will be on a "Best of 5". This is to try prevent a lucky lightning strike or disintegrate from those silly greensteels.

This is a one large devil scale buy in. And rewards will be as followed based on entries:
12: 1st- 8 2nd- 4
10: 1st- 7 2nd- 3
8: 1st- 6 2nd- 2
6: 1st- 5 2nd- 1
Tournament will not proceed with less then 6 entries.

Weapons, tactics that are off limits:
There is to be no shield blocking. You will not be able to just shield block to allow guards to kill an opponent. You can however, block temporarily (with your weapons) to prevent a special attack (I.E. touch of death, trip, stun) but only stay blocking for a couple of seconds.

Tactics that are allowed:
Any feat, ability, skill your character possesses. Examples would be stunning, tripping, touch of death are acceptable, and based on a census of the participants we can limit these to a certain number. For example, you'd be allowed to trip once per fight. But that wouldn't limit you from stunning once or using a touch of death once. This can be agreed or disagreed upon by the group.

Weapons not allowed:
Vorpals, Limbchoppers, Vacuum II's, Dust II's, Triple Negative

-Vorpals and Limbchoppers are lame

-Vacuum II's have about a 2-3% proc rate to instantly kill on a DC 30 Will save. It can be a bit tough for melees to get even around a 20 will save self buffed so the insta kill effect here is too powerful. Triple negative isn't quite as bad as it's bypassed by deathward/deathblock.

Dust II's because they seem to be around a 3.15% proc rate to do approximately 450 points of untyped damage. The proc rate vs damage amount is too overpowered. Now before I get the whole well what about lightning II's. This isn't a comparsion thread. Their proc rate is a good 1% lower and lightning damage can be migrated to hit for mid 400's.

So here is to anyone interested in signing up.
1. Intervention
2. Spyder
3. Bruttus
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.

If I've failed to address anything that might be of important please feel free.

P.S. Yes PvP is lame and dead. :)

[Phidius]

You gotta Fraps it for both entertainment and instant replay for judgement calls.

Wife is coming back in about 36 hours (roughly), so if by "next Saturday evening" you mean the next Saturday evening that we'll encounter (tonight), I'll sign up with Stryde.

If you meant "next week's Saturday evening" I have to bow out.


Let's not take too much time from our raiding and epic-ing :D

[bendover]

You gotta Fraps it for both entertainment and instant replay for judgement calls.

Wife is coming back in about 36 hours (roughly), so if by "next Saturday evening" you mean the next Saturday evening that we'll encounter (tonight), I'll sign up with Stryde.

If you meant "next week's Saturday evening" I have to bow out.


Let's not take too much time from our raiding and epic-ing :D


I apologize it will be the evening of the 13th. Time and location will be given privately to avoid certain trolls.

[mediocresurgeon]

I thought Vacuum weapons didn't allow a save?

[bendover]

I thought Vacuum weapons didn't allow a save?


They are a DC 30 will save. I dual wield them on my rogue and also have the guard on my fvs. I've tested both of them. Unfortunately, they are too overpowered even with the will save applied to be considered "fair".

[Lifespawn]

good intentions but guard builds will just let people kill themselves no skill involved just luck

[bendover]

good intentions but guard builds will just let people kill themselves no skill involved just luck


Killing faster is always a good remedy to beat a guard build. I understand guard builds are lame and quite frankly there are only three guards I can think of that CAN one shot people. And I'm hoping that a best out of 5 between fights will limit the amount of "luck" people get from those. You are correct in the fact guards are kinda lame, but a quick trip + a couple hits from a THF barb and a guard build is done.

[spyderwolf]

i dont normally like pvp , but what the hell. ill do it on also. ill get ya the scale later today.

[platonicx]

I wonder what you gonna do with assasin III pll :)

[bendover]

I wonder what you gonna do with assasin III pll :)


What about Assassin III?

[LazyTigerLily]

What about Assassin III?

Vorpal ;)

[Quikster]

Vorpal ;)

Not sure if it will work against heavy fort, but it has to be a sneak attack, blindness immunity should balance that out easily.

[bendover]

Vorpal ;)


With assassin III you have to be behind the enemy and your attack must qualify as a sneak attack. And with the current state of opportunist being bugged rogues are unable to receive sneak attacks even though they render an enemy -10% fortification.

So unless someone is going to take off their fort item for you and let you get behind them I see it high unlikely a rogue will be assassinated anyone :).

[rodallec]

not from behind just not selected or aggroed by mob i think.

[bendover]

not from behind just not selected or aggroed by mob i think.


Could be, but it's PvP so who cares. Regardless rogues won't be getting a sneak attack in to be able to assassinate in the first place.

[Dexxaan]

Even though Guards and Glancing Blows destroyed PVP....I'm in.

Gotta Crunch some #'s, and determine if I'm going AC/Patience killing or Brutal 62 STR annihilation.

* Bruttus or Gearofwar.

I'll keep ya posted.


.

[LazyTigerLily]

With assassin III you have to be behind the enemy and your attack must qualify as a sneak attack. And with the current state of opportunist being bugged rogues are unable to receive sneak attacks even though they render an enemy -10% fortification.

So unless someone is going to take off their fort item for you and let you get behind them I see it high unlikely a rogue will be assassinated anyone :).

You don't have to be standing behind things for the vorpal strike to occur, but I digress. It was more that you said no vorpal weapons and with Assassin III a rogue is essentially a vorpal weapon :p

Since that wouldn't disqualify me I think I might bring mah little halfling, this sounds like it could be fun :)

[bendover]

You don't have to be standing behind things for the vorpal strike to occur, but I digress. It was more that you said no vorpal weapons and with Assassin III a rogue is essentially a vorpal weapon :p

Since that wouldn't disqualify me I think I might bring mah little halfling, this sounds like it could be fun :)

Regardless everyone wears 100% fort so if you roll a 20 on your rogue get through 90% of their fort (opportunist) you'll score a critical hit but won't vorpal them since the person you'll be fighting is going to have you targeted :).

[spyderwolf]

remind me tonight to get that scale to ya. forgot last ngiht .

[bendover]

remind me tonight to get that scale to ya. forgot last ngiht .


I'm not worried bro, we all have plenty of time and if you want to wait til Saturday I'm not worried.

[Boromirs]

Too bad Turbine doesn't want/can't fix PvP, it is a LARGE part of most other MMOs (namely WoW).

[bendover]

Too bad Turbine doesn't want/can't fix PvP, it is a LARGE part of most other MMOs (namely WoW).

I don't think it's Turbine that doesn't want/can't fix PvP. I think it's more of the community telling Turbine that we don't want them to spend focus on something most players in this game don't care about.

[GregorianPL]

I'm not sure yet but maybe i will try if you can send tell to kithrag

[twizznach]

all ur scales belong to me and u know it! sign me up!

[bendover]

For a bump and:

1. Intervention
2. Spyder
3. Bruttus
4. Pannzy

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I'd take part if you disallowed guards completely, but allowing guards... so basically you have a percentage chance of being disintegrated or lightning struck makes it more luck than anything else.

Garth

[bendover]

I'd take part if you disallowed guards completely, but allowing guards... so basically you have a percentage chance of being disintegrated or lightning struck makes it more luck than anything else.

Garth


That's why I offered best of 5 for the matches. That really limits you from being beaten 3 times because of a lightning strike guard or disintegrate guard. I considered 7 but that just might take too long unless everyone that has signed up would agree to that.

[maestro973]

Post here if/when you guys set a time. Don't want to commit my saturday night just yet, but depending on the time frame I could be down for this. May or may not be capped on this life by then but I shouldn't have a problem wiping the floor with the current list of participants at level 18 or so :D (Gotta stir the pot right?)

-Velletri

[rodallec]

i might bring someone.
k cool

[bendover]

i might bring someone.
k cool


Cool story !

[Gumbolo]

Fairly nice idea, but fairly guessable winner. AC tank with absurdly high ac, which will allow other players to hit only on 20's while they're hitting commonly (tho, pure ac tank vs pure ac tank can be uhm... fairly long fight :D).

[mediocresurgeon]

Fairly nice idea, but fairly guessable winner. AC tank with absurdly high ac, which will allow other players to hit only on 20's while they're hitting commonly (tho, pure ac tank vs pure ac tank can be uhm... fairly long fight :D).

An AC tank with absurd AC can be beaten by a DPS with absurdly high to-hit. I'm betting that it's going to be a WF FvS with a couple guards and DQ bracers that's going to win. Or maybe a half-orc barb.

[bendover]

An AC tank with absurd AC can be beaten by a DPS with absurdly high to-hit. I'm betting that it's going to be a WF FvS with a couple guards and DQ bracers that's going to win. Or maybe a half-orc barb.


So we'd think :). You were right about the FvS part though :)

[Bloodcraven]

sounds interesting

[twizznach]

An AC tank with absurd AC can be beaten by a DPS with absurdly high to-hit. I'm betting that it's going to be a WF FvS with a couple guards and DQ bracers that's going to win. Or maybe a half-orc barb.

lol wf fvs? who are u hinting at?

[spyderwolf]

jsut foudn out i may be working sat night. will know for sure before then.

[twizznach]

jsut foudn out i may be working sat night. will know for sure before then.

no takesy backsies!!!!!!!! lol i crafted another gs just to do this lol! Be there or be square!

[Healsavant]

I'm not going to enter because of the guards, the will rule the day. However what about having both parties fighting limbchopped, would add a little fun to the event.

[Bobthesponge]

As far as the actual fights are dictated everyone in the group will roll 1d100. The highest roll and the lowest roll will be paired. The second highest roll and the second lowest roll will be paid, so on and so forth.


so you're saying that the second highest and second lowest rolls will get the scales?

[bendover]

Id like to hold this at approx. 8 pm Est time Saturday evening in the Hammersmith Inn in House D.

[bendover]

so you're saying that the second highest and second lowest rolls will get the scales?

Im sorry I meant to mean they will be matched up, Apologies for my poor grammar.

[Bobthesponge]

Im sorry I meant to mean they will be matched up, Apologies for my poor grammar.

i know. i just thought it was funny. :-)

[bendover]

Bump and it's Thursday with 4 or 5 participants. Would like about 6 more let's go guys!!

[elraido]

I MIGHT be in. Depends if I am online or not...would be with burne.

[bendover]

Event tonight at 8pm EST. So far only 4 guaranteed to come need quite abit more couple hours left!!

[Lifespawn]

would love to go but guards=death no point in me wasting a scale

[thisgamesull]

would love to go but guards=death no point in me wasting a scale

/agreed

[thisgamesull]

/agreed

Thanx for the -rep for this post shows that I bothered you.

[unscythe]

Sounds like fun, wish I played on this server. :P

I don't think guards would be all that bad, takes a few procs and dps from the other toon to take down 1k hp barb. :D

[Dexxaan]

Sounds like fun, wish I played on this server. :P

I don't think guards would be all that bad, takes a few procs and dps from the other toon to take down 1k hp barb. :D

1K HP's?

Thats 2 extra swings or .6 Crit swing.


And BTW - Guards are annoying and unfair in a Melee PvP Arena.

[Delt]

Dust II's because they seem to be around a 3.15% proc rate to do approximately 450 points of untyped damage. The proc rate vs damage amount is too overpowered. Now before I get the whole well what about lightning II's. This isn't a comparsion thread. Their proc rate is a good 1% lower and lightning damage can be migrated to hit for mid 400's.

Uhh, where are you pulling this info from exactly?

Dust seems to proc the same as anything else.

[Loromir]

So....Who Won?

[bendover]

Uhh, where are you pulling this info from exactly?

Dust seems to proc the same as anything else.


Doesn't. I have both Dust II's and Lightning II's. The Dust II's are a 1% higher. I've spent plenty of time testing these. If you don't believe me you're welcome to use your larges to see for yourself.

[Dragonhyde]

So....Who Won?

yeah?...or did you all get delayed blast fireballed at the beginning of the competition?

[Delt]

Doesn't. I have both Dust II's and Lightning II's. The Dust II's are a 1% higher. I've spent plenty of time testing these. If you don't believe me you're welcome to use your larges to see for yourself.

Wowza! You have Dust & Lit weapons!! Holy smokes!!!!

*cough*

I was just curious where your info was coming from - you know, whether it was a legit source with some documented actual numbers or just the old "it feels like it procs more to me!". You answered my question, so thanks.

For the record, I happen to also sport the "it feel like it procs more" excuse, yet every time I go to test and record proc rates, it inevitably falls in the same range as everything else.

Edit: I just remembered who you were -- the same guy that claimed Dust was a 4% proc rate (lol) after "6 months of solid 100% testing". Why'd you drop your new rate down to only 1% higher now? :)

[unscythe]

1K HP's?

Thats 2 extra swings or .6 Crit swing.

And BTW - Guards are annoying and unfair in a Melee PvP Arena.

I still don't think the guards go off that often, and with 5 rounds. Probaly would die from 1 swing after 2 procs, dead from 3, and if only 1 proc.... unless they hit for 200 a swing against heavy fort, I think my toon will last long enough to throw down a trip or stunning blow to conserve Hp. But tons of variables against surviving if any of the guards proc for their 500+ damage.

Would be fun to see what would happen. Personally I am saddened by the low proc rates. It occurs just enough to surpise me while leveling, to watch a pile of mobs attack, and for ONLY one to get struck down. .... Wish there was a chain lightening guard.....even if the proc was 0.001 percent and was a triple shard ..... the fun I would have in dragging entire wilderness instances. :D

Edit: I mostly pvp when i'm very bored, so I understand that I lack knowledge, and have only a limited base for pvp experience, considering it is casual in this game.

[bendover]

Wowza! You have Dust & Lit weapons!! Holy smokes!!!!

*cough*

I was just curious where your info was coming from - you know, whether it was a legit source with some documented actual numbers or just the old "it feels like it procs more to me!". You answered my question, so thanks.

For the record, I happen to also sport the "it feel like it procs more" excuse, yet every time I go to test and record proc rates, it inevitably falls in the same range as everything else.

Edit: I just remembered who you were -- the same guy that claimed Dust was a 4% proc rate (lol) after "6 months of solid 100% testing". Why'd you drop your new rate down to only 1% higher now? :)

Came out to 3.25% :).

Edit: You're more then welcome to believe some website or two might say. Or even what someone in accordance to a website will say about it. But you'd just never know until you see for yourself. Alot of the information we've seen written out in regards to crafting procs and what not can be false and misleading.

[Delt]

Came out to 3.25% :).

Edit: You're more then welcome to believe some website or two might say. Or even what someone in accordance to a website will say about it. But you'd just never know until you see for yourself. Alot of the information we've seen written out in regards to crafting procs and what not can be false and misleading.

If only other people besides yourself actually had dust weapons too :rolleyes:

3.25% is a pretty odd number to claim. And I agree with you in regards to not believing everything you read...but website sources are still more convincing than one guy making a single (and fluxuating) claim. So where are your numbers? Did you ever followup and post the video/tests?

Even in my smallest test with 50 procs (which was in another thread you posted), I came to 2.6%. Follow ups with 100 proc tests averaged closer to 2%. So again, where are your numbers?

[unscythe]

A guildie of mines.... enjoys......*gag*....to test stuff. So he did over a thousand swings/tests ... maybe more ...... but found the lit 2 to proc under 2%.

Just here to mess with all your numbers. :P Makes me sad that its such a low proc rate. :(

I could bother him sometimes if you guys care for an exact number of tests, and the resulting percentage. Atleast it will narrow down the range.

[Delt]

A guildie of mines.... enjoys......*gag*....to test stuff. So he did over a thousand swings/tests ... maybe more ...... but found the lit 2 to proc under 2%.

Just here to mess with all your numbers. :P Makes me sad that its such a low proc rate. :(

I could bother him sometimes if you guys care for an exact number of tests, and the resulting percentage. Atleast it will narrow down the range.

Hehe, a thousand swings is nothing when dealing with a proc rate of 2%. Now if he did 1000 procs, kudos to him....not only is that a good base to extrapolate from, but I personally start falling asleep around 75 procs.

Luckily dust is easy to test, since you can just wack portals.

[Silverr]

So did this fight ever take place?

[bendover]

So did this fight ever take place?

No, we couldn't. We didn't have as many people come.

[Silverr]

Awh, that sucks. I'd have been up for taking part if I knew about it.

[Mighty_Bozo]

What about a Capture the Flag guilds tournament?
We gotta admit it has a good battleground there and the prizes would be bigger, considering a whole guild subscription.
I can't tell for sure if you're allowed to have 12 vs 12 on the CTF arena or 6 vs 6. But either way, it's more tactical than actual one on one pvp. We could have a tournament set up and have a score going on for each guild participating and could be a more extensive tournament to go on. Like, having games every week or so, and for knowing who won, both teams should post a screenshot of the endscore.

[Silverr]

Maybe less of a buy in to start with? It'd be easier to get people to take part if the buy in was something no-one would even think twice about. Maybe 10k plat or something. It seems like you could have a great PvP CTF game with just melees. No ranged or spells.

Could also hold tournaments with level ranges if you wanted to include more people.

[Mighty_Bozo]

The problem about a CTF melee only are the monks, if u start cutting off classes you make the system go all unbalanced considering that u need to get the flag on the other team and run to your own flag the monks would make it all unbalanced since noone can catch a monk toe to toe, so u definetely need ranged / spells for those. That said, if u're considering a good CTF match the only thing you should keep in mind is, set your own team and get some strategy for defeating the other team, much like good sports. Yes a wizard or sorcerer can be a real pain in the ass, but usually they won't do nothing if ganked up, and they won't be able to instakill anyone, since most people will have deathblock on and ray spells are worth nothing on a pvp match where u move a lot.