poor play

[aggravated]

to the raid leader of the compleated shroud run.

not giving clrs time to fill there sp bars after pt 2 and pt 5. then hitting the alter immediately after harry dies saying "you were suppose to /death out before he died". welcome to the black list buddy. i'll be contacting ur guild leader to make ur greifing known. should that not get the job done, ur entire guild will make the list.

* 1:forcing clr to drink sp pots to keep up when there is plenty of time to fill up with pools is unacceptable
2:who would have been healing u at 10% if we'd /death out? hitting the alter without giving time to d door out is
greifing imo.

[twigzz]

Plz PM name.

[Healsavant]

I saw that LFM, it said ZERG, /death to get out at end, why did ya join an lfm that said that anyway? I see an LFM like that I figure itll be that kinda run. Sorry you had to learn the hard way but an LFM can tell you a LOT about,...... whats about to happen....

[Tholar]

I heal a lot of shrouds. I don't drink pots in the shroud.

One exception, if the reason for my low mana is my stupidity.

[elricken]

If the lfm said zerg...

PM please out of sheer curiosity.

[k1ngp1n]

Would this be in reference to the just completed Supremacy run? Because that would be super.

[Qzipoun]

Sounds like you had a good shroud run :confused:

[Stormanne]

While I would like to agree with you OP, but we need a few more details.

If the LFM clearly stated it was a zerg run with the conditions for exit in part 5, then the fault would be your own for failing to read more than the quest name in the LFM box...

[DelScorcho]

First I thought :eek:

then I thought :confused:

Now that the whole story came out, I'm thinking :D:D:D

Reading failure by the OP. If you are confused by an LFM, better ask next time ...

[aggravated]

While I would like to agree with you OP, but we need a few more details.

If the LFM clearly stated it was a zerg run with the conditions for exit in part 5, then the fault would be your own for failing to read more than the quest name in the LFM box...

details: yes the lfm did say zerg and i think i said something about /death out at the end. i had assumed the /death was inrefferance to maybe the caster not carrying ddoor or not planning on having a caster. either way im not so ticked about the alter click although it takes 10 sec to let people out but what ever. no im more bothered by that fact that we couldnt slow down long enough to let the clrs use the pools in pt 2 or 5. it inconsiderate to make them buff and heal then drink sp pots just to get a compleation. as i said before. its just my opinion.

ps. not a Supremacy run.

[Qzipoun]

im more bothered by that fact that we couldnt slow down long enough to let the clrs use the pools in pt 2 or 5

Why would 11 other people waste their time for YOU to fill up in pools? It doesn't even have to be a zerg group for people to not wait for that... That's like saying "boo, they're not waiting for me to craft in part 1" ... no one will ...

[Quikster]

Our shroud runs are always zerg, and always byobuffs, we never use mana pots. Any yes we pug.

[rodallec]

not a supremacy run.. now im confused..
have nothing to say except hope you learnt a lesson? :D

[Quikster]

A zerg run didnt wait for someone to top off their mana???? OMG what is this game coming too?

[Zombiekenny]

I don't generally make anyone wait for me to get SP, and I never drink pots in shroud when I heal. If you learn SP conservation then you won't need to use pots either, or just don't join runs labeled zerg if you can't handle it.

[aggravated]

have nothing to say except hope you learnt a lesson? :D

most defiantly.

[Stormanne]

details: yes the lfm did say zerg and i think i said something about /death out at the end. i had assumed the /death was inrefferance to maybe the caster not carrying ddoor or not planning on having a caster. either way im not so ticked about the alter click although it takes 10 sec to let people out but what ever. no im more bothered by that fact that we couldnt slow down long enough to let the clrs use the pools in pt 2 or 5. it inconsiderate to make them buff and heal then drink sp pots just to get a compleation. as i said before. its just my opinion.

ps. not a Supremacy run.


From my admittedly limited experience on zerg runs, buffing is kept at an absolute minimum. A few bard songs, maybe the elemental resists and protections and then bolt. If you continue to throw things at them, they're going to take them, just don't expect them to have sympathy for you when you are out of spell points from throwing buffs they neither needed nor asked for.

I don't go on these runs for a reason. I know my limitations and I know that I have far too many distractions IRL that take me away from game mid quest. My guild knows and accepts this, which is a big reason I quest and raid with guildies only.

[Pape_27]

I can understand wanting to finish in a hurry

I can understand not wanting to wait til everyone is buffed - its byob

I can understand not waiting on taking down the last boss and getting to harry asap

what i cant understand is this - would it really kill anyone to wait 15 seconds for a person to recall out at the end of the quest before hitting the altar?

_

[Healsavant]

Back in the day when max lvl was 16 and no epic weapons were out and few had the Greensteel made, or didnt have GCB weapons it was necessary, but nowadays most people have the great weapons the shroud offers upgraded and can do nice dps throuout. If i put up a shroud and say zerg... and I look over and the cleric is empty, ill gladly wait for him/her to get mana......I like my clerics to have mana....just sayin...

[k1ngp1n]

would it really kill anyone to wait 15 seconds for a person to recall out at the end of the quest before hitting the altar?

Would it really kill anyone to just /death {hahaha} out at 5 or 10% and be done with it so everyone can get going on with what they want to do? The street goes both ways.

[Pape_27]

Would it really kill anyone to just /death {hahaha} out at 5 or 10% and be done with it so everyone can get going on with what they want to do? The street goes both ways.

seems silly and petty to me, being so hepped up that you cant wait ten to fifteen seconds for someone to recall/ddoor out, but to each their own i suppose.

Things like this are the reason i dont/wont do run speed runs/zergs in raids. that way no one is disappointed in me, and me with them. Keeps the drama down

_

[Quikster]

seems silly and petty to me, being so hepped up that you cant wait ten to fifteen seconds for someone to recall/ddoor out, but to each their own i suppose.

Things like this are the reason i dont/wont do run speed runs/zergs in raids. that way no one is disappointed in me, and me with them. Keeps the drama down

_

Meh if you have a good leader, they will let you know when to get out so everyone is happy.

[Filipinomaids]

FYI,as a cleric,if I was in a zerg run of shroud,it is unnesscery to use shrine after pt 2 cause pt 3 is a healless part.

if they type zerg run and got enough power of DPS,if u got a right heal way.there r no reason to fill mana back in pt 5 fight(I just mean fill mana back from pool,not shrine in pt 4,cause a good heal style always keep ur mana at 70%-80% in frist fight of pt 5),either.

I don't think type /death in last moment of pt 5 fight is a silly thing,it is more faster than recall or take DD,and it will made less mistake of someone click altar before others out of dungeon.

Anyway it is a soloable heal raid,just find something u should improve urself,then,complain on forums.

[toughguyjoe]

I can't wait to get myself up to shroud level.

I hear Supremacy runs my kind of shroud! :cool:

[PopeJual]

Would it really kill anyone to just /death {hahaha} out at 5 or 10% and be done with it so everyone can get going on with what they want to do? The street goes both ways.

As long as the people KNOW this going in, that's fine.

It's not standard practice, though, so anyone who plans on clicking the altar (even if it's the star) NEEDS to make sure that everyone understands what will happen as soon as Harry dies.

Killing the last Leiutenant before the healers get their spell points back is just obnoxious as well. Sure, lots of groups can finish without needing to do that. It's really crappy to expect a cleric or FvS to use pots to make sure that happens, though.

[Zombiekenny]

As long as the people KNOW this going in, that's fine.

It's not standard practice, though, so anyone who plans on clicking the altar (even if it's the star) NEEDS to make sure that everyone understands what will happen as soon as Harry dies.

Killing the last Leiutenant before the healers get their spell points back is just obnoxious as well. Sure, lots of groups can finish without needing to do that. It's really crappy to expect a cleric or FvS to use pots to make sure that happens, though.

All standard practice if the LFM says "Fast" or "Zerg", and not obnoxious at all if that's the case. Expecting people to wait goes against standard practice and is obnoxious if you joined a fast run.

[karnokvolrath]

This is awsome, someone was complaining about slow shrouds the other day.....


The general answer was....put the lfm up as ZERG /Death...if people cant bother reading the lfm then there an idiot and deserve it.

And then....it worked.

Ahh yes, here it is....


Post an LFM like 'Speedrun. No wasting time buffing or D-Dooring. Strictly completion only'. You'll get 6-8 likeminded people, and you'll finish fast. Make sure to hit the altar immediately in part 5, so people that don't read the LFM learn a lesson (if you want to be really mean about it, give them just enough time to step through a D-Door).

Courtisy of this little gem...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=283262&highlight=shroud

[bendover]

This goes back to reading comprehension. If the LFM states in it that this is going to be a fast run, a zerg run, a bring your own buffs run, a /death or recall at 5% run if someone can't handle those stipulations don't join. This usually has been a method by most Vets to try and weed out more of the "weaker" players so they can complete as fast as possible with less griefing to move onto the next quest/raid or whatever.

[bendover]

I can't wait to get myself up to shroud level.

I hear Supremacy runs my kind of shroud! :cool:

We'll help you get what ya need for your AA :)

[FengXian]

Nah, not waiting on recall/dd is still stupid, even if you advertised /death.

First of you should expect people not to know what it means, since you're in a PUG.

Secondly it takes 10 seconds to recall, there's no reason not to, really...zerging or not...

And what if 10 people /death out leaving you with harry at 10%? Are you absolutely sure you won't fail?

Again no logical reason not to wait...you can count down 15-20 seconds after harry's dead and make sure everyone's out.

[bendover]

Nah, not waiting on recall/dd is still stupid, even if you advertised /death.

First of you should expect people not to know what it means, since you're in a PUG.

Secondly it takes 10 seconds to recall, there's no reason not to, really...zerging or not...

And what if 10 people /death out leaving you with harry at 10%? Are you absolutely sure you won't fail?

Again no logical reason not to wait...you can count down 15-20 seconds after harry's dead and make sure everyone's out.

Yes, I'll kill Harry solo at 10% everytime. I think any well built toon can.

[FengXian]

Yes, I'll kill Harry solo at 10% everytime. I think any well built toon can.

Are you saying that any toon who can't kill harry at 10% is not well built/jimped? I'm pretty sure that many well built (yet not maxed) melee's with little to no self healing would fail there...

But that aside the point is that it's ok to zerg, not wait on sp refill, keep buffs to min etc, but the point of not waiting for people to get out? Saving 30 seconds? Still sounds stupid :)

[bendover]

Are you saying that any toon who can't kill harry at 10% is not well built/jimped? I'm pretty sure that many well built (yet not maxed) melee's with little to no self healing would fail there...

But that aside the point is that it's ok to zerg, not wait on sp refill, keep buffs to min etc, but the point of not waiting for people to get out? Saving 30 seconds? Still sounds stupid :)

I consider any toon that is well built to have self sufficiency. Whether that's high AC, healing capabilities or UMD or whatever they do to stay alive and deal damage.

[FengXian]

I consider any toon that is well built to have self sufficiency. Whether that's high AC, healing capabilities or UMD or whatever they do to stay alive and deal damage.

Some consider "well built" toons that cover their role in the party, and some DPS builds give up self sufficiency (for example knowing they'll have a healer helping out most times) in order to deal more damage...I never capped a pure barb but I'm not sure it would be able to kill a 10%hp harry before harry kills him...

But again if someone sets a lfm with /death at 10%, they are prolly pretty confident about being able to take care about that last 10% by themselves :D

[k1ngp1n]

I'm pretty sure that many well built (yet not maxed) melee's with little to no self healing would fail there...

The kind of toons and the kind of guilds that post these runs can indeed drop him very shorthanded.

[FengXian]

The kind of toons and the kind of guilds that post these runs can indeed drop him very shorthanded.

Yeah sry that was just a digression about the meaning of "well built", as I said in my previous post I agree that people who set up lfm's like that are prolly able to handle harry after many party members left :)

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Why would you need to fill up your sp bar after pt2? You could pretty much go in empty and be fine.

Or you could shrine, they can't force you in to pt3.

[khaldan]

Why would you need to fill up your sp bar after pt2? You could pretty much go in empty and be fine.

Or you could shrine, they can't force you in to pt3.

Stop bringing your crazy 'logic' into my drama. :D

[PopeJual]

As long as the people KNOW this going in, that's fine.

It's not standard practice, though, so anyone who plans on clicking the altar (even if it's the star) NEEDS to make sure that everyone understands what will happen as soon as Harry dies.

Killing the last Leiutenant before the healers get their spell points back is just obnoxious as well. Sure, lots of groups can finish without needing to do that. It's really crappy to expect a cleric or FvS to use pots to make sure that happens, though.



This is awsome, someone was complaining about slow shrouds the other day.....


The general answer was....put the lfm up as ZERG /Death...if people cant bother reading the lfm then there an idiot and deserve it.

And then....it worked.

Ahh yes, here it is....

[sirgog's quote]
Post an LFM like 'Speedrun. No wasting time buffing or D-Dooring. Strictly completion only'. You'll get 6-8 likeminded people, and you'll finish fast. Make sure to hit the altar immediately in part 5, so people that don't read the LFM learn a lesson (if you want to be really mean about it, give them just enough time to step through a D-Door).
[endquote]


Courtisy of this little gem...

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=283262&highlight=shroud


I'm cool with that. If it said so in the LFM, then everyone who needed to know that the altar would get clicked immediately knew about it.

When someone posts "fast Shroud" and grabs people for a generic PUG and doesn't get any more specific, then clicking the altar at the end of part five without at least mentioning it in party chat is just lame.

[Dulcimerist]

English isn't the OP's native language, so perhaps he misread the LFM notice. :(

[moops]

Whew. . .
And this is why I prefer to solo heal shroud, I'd slash my wrists if on one of my runs the other healers asked me to wait while they jumped in trees or pools.

Read the LFM OP--if you don't know what it means, ask first.

And yes, any of my gimps could take down Harry at 10%--after all, once he is debuffed is a pretty tame fellow:)

Jeez didnt you read any of the past 500 Sarlona shroud threads?


English isn't the OP's native language, so perhaps he misread the LFM notice. :(

Hmmm. . fail, he came here and posted in plain English, better than mine. Every Foreign player I know who does not know hardly any English knows what basic game lingo is.

[Tat2Freak]

...I'm just wondering when a lot of the good players i see posting here became such complete ****** bags...

p.s. maybe all you jaded OGs need to try something...like a new game...

[Gunga]

Rif

[moops]

...I'm just wondering when a lot of the good players i see posting here became such complete ****** bags...

p.s. maybe all you jaded OGs need to try something...like a new game...

I dont think that it is jaded to expect someone to read the LFM that I put up, and to follow the way I want to lead a Raid. I bring new people to raids all the time, and when I have new people I explain everything as well as I can while still keeping the pace that I want to run.

The simple solution is that if someone doe not want to run a quest/raid the way the LFM is stated, is for for them to start THEIR OWN LFM.

[Tat2Freak]

...all I'm gonna say is I been here for 4 years...and I don't like the direction, I see the vast majority of the leaders going...do you know how The Masque of the Red Death ends?

[Gunga]

do you know how The Masque of the Red Death ends?

I'm thinking red deathy?

[thisgamesull]

...I'm just wondering when a lot of the good players i see posting here became such complete ****** bags...

p.s. maybe all you jaded OGs need to try something...like a new game...

I have to agree with this guy you vets need to stop acting like ur **** don't stink

Im getting real tired of the attitude that "good players" seem to have all the time
Im leet so ill do as I wish ******** is getting real old

This is not common practice to expect people to /death at 10% or 5%
Does it hurt to explain b4 hand that you are going to click on the shrine b4 hand?

Regardless of what the lfm says people should be forewarned

[Quikster]

...I'm just wondering when a lot of the good players i see posting here became such complete ****** bags...

p.s. maybe all you jaded OGs need to try something...like a new game...

huh?

[Gunga]

I have to agree with this guy you vets need to stop acting like ur **** don't stink

Im getting real tired of the attitude that "good players" seem to have all the time
Im leet so ill do as I wish ******** is getting real old

This is not common practice to expect people to /death at 10% or 5%
Does it hurt to explain b4 hand that you are going to click on the shrine b4 hand?

Regardless of what the lfm says people should be forewarned

So vets shouldn't expect you to have the right gear, to stay alive, to have pots or to be able to read?!

I think your selling your education a little short.

[Tat2Freak]

So vets shouldn't expect you to have the right gear, to stay alive, to have pots or to be able to read?!

I think your selling your education a little short.

I think you should go back to your server or change to my avatar already...

[moops]

...all I'm gonna say is I been here for 4 years...and I don't like the direction, I see the vast majority of the leaders going...do you know how The Masque of the Red Death ends?

And I have played since beta when we are all new to the game, since Day 1 LFMS have said ZERG--or Dungeon Crawl or Roleplay no OOC. Almost every other game I play uses the same lingo.

I dont see why we should be expected to changed now.

[Tat2Freak]

...I call it like it is, you all know that...I'm done here.

[Gunga]

I think you should go back to your server or change to my avatar already...

My avatar is as fitting for me as yours is for you.

I think your thread contains subject matter that is not unique to your server. Reading is something that everyone over 13 should be able to do. Asking a question should be part of the skill set that anyone who possesses a computer should have. Newb or N00b, this incident was easily avoidable if someone either read the lfm or asked for more info if they were uncertain.

I hate the fact that you call vets out when the leader of the party was so clearly in the right.

[thisgamesull]

So vets shouldn't expect you to have the right gear, to stay alive, to have pots or to be able to read?!

I think your selling your education a little short.

Not all players on sarlona can understand English fluently but that is not cause they are dumb,It is mostly because English is not their first language

As for them not having the right gear or being able to stay alive I fail to realize what this has to do with this topic

[Quikster]

Not all players on sarlona can understand English fluently but that is not cause they are dumb,It is mostly because English is not their first language

As for them not having the right gear or being able to stay alive I fail to realize what this has to do with this topic

If I put something in party chat, and say it in voice, thats good enough for me. If they dont understand either, I dont lose any sleep over it, even if that means they get locked out of the end chests and go on timer.

[Rhev]

The thing is though that as oppose to helping the guy learn the lingo and such. Most just flame him, and move on. I've played since beta as well (although have taken breaks), and the attitude has changed a lot. It reminds me of WoW more and more each day.

[thisgamesull]

If I put something in party chat, and say it in voice, thats good enough for me. If they dont understand either, I dont lose any sleep over it, even if that means they get locked out of the end chests and go on timer.


I agree,And this is fair but Exactly how much can you put in a comment in an LFM?
You cant put much I have no idea exactly what the LFM said So there is not much to go on about, but If you say in party chat that you are going to do this then you gave warning which is completely fair to do as you have said

[Gunga]

The thing is though that as oppose to helping the guy learn the lingo and such. Most just flame him, and move on. I've played since beta as well (although have taken breaks), and the attitude has changed a lot. It reminds me of WoW more and more each day.

Rhev.

Listen carefully.

The guy said ZERG. /DEATH AT END. He gave implicit instructions...he wasn't holding shroud class today. He had to get his **** done so he cold move on.

Please don't be deliberately obtuse...this is not about attitude. It's about a leader of a raid being allowed to run it his way without being judged by you.

[Samadhi]

I dont think that it is jaded to expect someone to read the LFM that I put up, and to follow the way I want to lead a Raid. I bring new people to raids all the time, and when I have new people I explain everything as well as I can while still keeping the pace that I want to run.

The simple solution is that if someone doe not want to run a quest/raid the way the LFM is stated, is for for them to start THEIR OWN LFM.


If I put something in party chat, and say it in voice, thats good enough for me. If they dont understand either, I dont lose any sleep over it, even if that means they get locked out of the end chests and go on timer.

I think these two quotes pretty much cover it.

What is sadder?

A) The player wanting to tear out his hair, because on 78%** of the LFM's with explicitly stated "who/what/wheres" some random (english-speaking) person joins and completely disregards what is posted?

- or -

B) The player so arrogant that he thinks he doesn't need to read how the party leader wants to run things, and that he can join and do w/e the **** he wants?



**This was the actual statistic I figured out for the runs I did today while leveling my TR. The best of which was a Chain of Flames run (LFM Comments: "Self-Sufficient Zergers Only, In Progress, Know Way to Quest"). 5 people had hit the LFM before I made it to the quest entrance. Before I hit the first shrine, the other players were talking amongst themselves, and it was apparent that NONE of them were positive on how to get to the quest (although two had "an idea"). PUG4 was actively trying to convince other members of the party to go loot bloodstone/greaves chests instead of going to the quest (and was already in encounter area so I couldn't boot him). PUG3 called me a ****y jerk and DC'd when I suggested that PUG4 come to the quest that was advertised instead of doing his own thing. PUG's 2, 5, and 6 made it to the quest around the time I finished using the second shrine (I'm on a bard too, not a caster/cleric that can AOE spam through it). PUG4 made it to the greaves chest about the time that the quest was completed. Throw up an LFM yourself. Just do it. The inability of people to read pretty simple and obvious things, even though they are clearly and fluently speaking English as their native tongue, is far more of a detriment to the game than the attitudes that result from this idiocy.

[Rhev]

Rhev.

Listen carefully.

The guy said ZERG. /DEATH AT END. He gave implicit instructions...he wasn't holding shroud class today. He had to get his **** done so he cold move on.

Please don't be deliberately obtuse...this is not about attitude. It's about a leader of a raid being allowed to run it his way without being judged by you.

Hope I quoted right. I don't come on forums too often. I wasn't arguing the "read the lfm." I agree enough that ppl should read them. We've all had trouble with this at some point. I was just pointing out that many of the older players have developed an attitude. If that wasn't clear I apologize. The thing is many folks forget this a game we all enjoy. No need to be at each others throats over it. I'm friends with most of you from this whole post. Though I don't always agree with ya'll I try to keep civil. This is kinda what I was trying to point out. So, I meant no offense, and hope I clarified a bit for ya'll. Thank you much. Also, adding that yea I wasn't talking about the OP, but at this point this thread is very much derailed anyhow.

[Healsavant]

...I'm just wondering when a lot of the good players i see posting here became such complete ****** bags...

p.s. maybe all you jaded OGs need to try something...like a new game...



I hear the pot calling the kettle black......OP clearly stated "ZERG /death to get out at end" his run his rules, dont like em form your own shroud, would I have joined that run most likely no. But I can read.

[andbr22]

Few things:
- If you have to use SP potions in shroud -> DON'T DO IT. It is better to make run fail (epsecially If you are not completing).
Keep in mind that there cannot be more than 50% of you fault.
If DPS suck (hapenns even in "zerg runs") then it is totally not your fault if they don't gives you time to chagre up in last part - Usually it is easy to check a DPS -> part 4 -> one round = great DPS, begining of second round = typical PUG DPS (not bad), end of second round = poor DPS, more rounds = very poor DPS...
If you are bad in conserving SP -> leader always could look and give a bit time to charge up (it is 50% of your fault).

- Well not waiting this 30 seconds after completion not gona save a world, or break your plans for rest of evening.
If you want to break achivments records then: what the H377 you do in PUGS, and it is a bit too late -> exchauistion and tendon slice don't slow Harry, and dark moonks loosed about 50% of their overpowered, multistrike ToD.

- If it is Zerg shroud, completion only etc. then don't expect to people to wait for people to leave after completion. I also meet LFM with "LOOT after completion".

- Only not "common", not selfbuffed, single targeted buff that is needed for Shroud is FoM for squieshies. Rest buffs can be avoided (GH, fire resist, DW if you have DB item), self buffed (Neutralise Poison, fire/acid/sonic resist 20 potion from twelve), or in handy mass form (DW, Songs, Rage, Prot Elements, hastle).

[rodallec]

i guess if i am not the leader i wont zerg and wait for ddoors etc

but if its my run or a guildies and people join us i will zerg as hard as i can
if people are told to leave if theyre leaving. they should leave. not wait.
we will hit the altar as fast as we can to check completion time

people shouldnt get upset when they have been told. or not leading.
it works both ways.

still... faster shrouds plz! :P

[Beethoven]

Bleh. I think blame here goes both ways. You are supposed to read an lfm and respect the party leaders wishes; on a zerg run you shouldn't later complain about the group moving fast.

On the other hand, I wouldn't have interpreted "zerg" and "/death at the end" as clerics are required to carry and use pots either, especially not in a Shroud. To me, zerg does not necessarily exempt a party leader from, y'know, actually lead.

You can zerg and give basic instructions. "Harry is down to 10%. You want to leave, recall /now/." - does not add any time to completion and is but minimum effort.

[hermespan]

... but an LFM can tell you a LOT about,...... whats about to happen....

Like when lfm says ZERG, and to /death out at the end, that's probably what you should do if you don't want the completion.

As far as not letting clerics fill up, meh. I'd just heal til I'm out of mana, then go recharge at the pool. If everyone dies, it's not really your problem because you weren't given the chance to charge up. I wouldn't be chugging pots over it. If people complain, point the finger where it belongs. He'll be the one getting DNG'd, not you.

Since you didn't want to complete anyway, a wipe isn't that big a deal to you. _let_ the guy wipe his group at the end fight if he's being a tool.

[Maxwell1380]

Like when lfm says ZERG, and to /death out at the end, that's probably what you should do if you don't want the completion.

As far as not letting clerics fill up, meh. I'd just heal til I'm out of mana, then go recharge at the pool. If everyone dies, it's not really your problem because you weren't given the chance to charge up. I wouldn't be chugging pots over it. If people complain, point the finger where it belongs. He'll be the one getting DNG'd, not you.

Since you didn't want to complete anyway, a wipe isn't that big a deal to you. _let_ the guy wipe his group at the end fight if he's being a tool.

Agreed. Also OP, stop whining if the LFM clearly stated /death at end, as bad as I hate the fact that people can be so fast to hit an altar, that one is on you my friend. Accept it and move on.

[TitoJ]

Clerics are just needy...and need to feel needed. Zerging never makes them feel that needed. It's like when I tell my wife lets just "zerg" it...she's never satisfied.

[Cyr]

I know I get mad whenever I join an LFM specifying something and then the run is ran in exactly that manner. Heck, the other day I joined an LFM for epic von 6. I was astounded and upset when the party ended up running epic von 6 instead of farming rings of feathers from stk with me.

[DelScorcho]

I know I get mad whenever I join an LFM specifying something and then the run is ran in exactly that manner. Heck, the other day I joined an LFM for epic von 6. I was astounded and upset when the party ended up running epic von 6 instead of farming rings of feathers from stk with me.

That is unfortunate that you just happened to run one of those groups where the lfm was accurate. What are the odds, really? Its much better when twelve people in the raid group all run whatever they want however they want. Don't tell me how to run my toon!

[Hendrik]

That is unfortunate that you just happened to run one of those groups where the lfm was accurate. What are the odds, really? Its much better when twelve people in the raid group all run whatever they want however they want. Don't tell me how to run my toon!


Raid run as advertised, who woulda thunk it?

:D

[rest]

I'm a little concerned that Khegeld is advocating being nice to people. Everything I know is wrong! :eek:

[Thorboar]

I'm a little concerned that Khegeld is advocating being nice to people. Everything I know is wrong! :eek:


I was thinking the same thing....but then realized...he tends to be unpredicable...so everything is normal....:D

[Tat2Freak]

nm, not worth it.

[Gunga]

Looks like you're still holding a grudge Kehg, even though you say he is.

[Tat2Freak]

not really man, im not the one leaving groups, trying to steal ppl from raids, etc, just generally pulling x girlfriend moves...I'd run with him...we dont have to like each other to get the job done.

[nanobot1994]

English isn't the OP's native language, so perhaps he misread the LFM notice. :(

Ahem. It would still be the OPs fault. English isn't my native language either, doesn't stop me from reading/writing quite bit better than a lot of native speakers. Its just laziness, what you dont know, you google :P

[Quikster]

Honestly I dont understand what the huge issue is. Ive been running fast shrouds for over a year and a half (so have my guildies) and we dont get a bunch of people ****ed when we do. Its not hard to give several warnings in the auto attack portion of part 4 or 5.

Its not hard to tell healers to shrine up and meet the group in part 2, and tell people to wait to go into part 2 if they cant stay alive.

Sure we tell people to leave at 10%, and we have for a long time now (yes even at the lvl 16 cap) if no ddoor /death or recall.

At the same time ive asked people to recall in part 3 for not running water, and not raised people in part 5 for crafting at the previous altars on my zerg byobuff runs. Ive had melee recall and drop group when I repeatedly asked them to stay off trash mobs and stay on portals. But all in all I think we've done successful jobs of running fast shroud pugs (18-26 min usually depending on group, since usually we take the first to hit the lfm regardless of class, and yeah sometimes we end up with 5 sorcs and 2 bards :eek:).

[Gunga]

Honestly I dont understand what the huge issue is. Ive been running fast shrouds for over a year and a half (so have my guildies) and we dont get a bunch of people ****ed when we do. Its not hard to give several warnings in the auto attack portion of part 4 or 5.

Its not hard to tell healers to shrine up and meet the group in part 2, and tell people to wait to go into part 2 if they cant stay alive.

Sure we tell people to leave at 10%, and we have for a long time now (yes even at the lvl 16 cap) if no ddoor /death or recall.

At the same time ive asked people to recall in part 3 for not running water, and not raised people in part 5 for crafting at the previous altars on my zerg byobuff runs. Ive had melee recall and drop group when I repeatedly asked them to stay off trash mobs and stay on portals. But all in all I think we've done successful jobs of running fast shroud pugs (18-26 min usually depending on group, since usually we take the first to hit the lfm regardless of class, and yeah sometimes we end up with 5 sorcs and 2 bards :eek:).

Yeah, but, see, that's YOUR shroud.

This guy is allowed to do a shroud HIS way, too.

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Although I admit I can see Kehg's point on this issue, I'm more inclined to follow with Quik on this.

Just remember, not everyone has the same "zerg" in their collective brains. I have seen zerg runs take 45 minutes and people were excited about finishing "that quickly".

On the rare occasions I'm on and see a QE Pug up, I'll jump on it like a fat kid on a moped. Why you ask?

Cause I like me some 15-20 min shrouds with no thought or complications. Fight/heal/whatever-it-is-you do and then finish.

No *****ing, griping, complaining. If your zerg is not this zerg, make sure people know so they can know what to expect.

[Quikster]

Yeah, but, see, that's YOUR shroud.

This guy is allowed to do a shroud HIS way, too.

The point was this aint anything new.

[DelScorcho]

I'm a little concerned that Khegeld is advocating being nice to people. Everything I know is wrong! :eek:

I don't think everyone else is advocating being mean to people (well maybe I am, but thats just how I roll). Most vets in the thread are saying read the lfm and don't join if you can't run that way. These threads always end the same way, with 90 per cent against the OP. This is a classic thread backfire, kind of like me complaining to my boss about my secretary interupting me while I'm trolling the DDO forums.

I don't think this is unneccesarily cruel. The OP is on timer; this is a teachable moment for him. Hopefully he will learn that if he wants to avoid the timer, don't join zerg and /death groups, or join them and actually /death. If he doesn't learn and doesn't follow the LFM, he will be that guy who no one wants in their groups.

[LordPiglet]

Bleh. I think blame here goes both ways. You are supposed to read an lfm and respect the party leaders wishes; on a zerg run you shouldn't later complain about the group moving fast.

On the other hand, I wouldn't have interpreted "zerg" and "/death at the end" as clerics are required to carry and use pots either, especially not in a Shroud. To me, zerg does not necessarily exempt a party leader from, y'know, actually lead.

You can zerg and give basic instructions. "Harry is down to 10%. You want to leave, recall /now/." - does not add any time to completion and is but minimum effort.

Honestly, the times I've been on these runs, the clerics didn't run out of mana.

They didn't waste it throwing out stuff that wasn't needed
Harry was down in the first round in pt 1
Harry down before madstone wears off in pt 5

The last time I was in a Zerg /death at the end grouping, the clerics had 1/2 bar of mana at the end.

Oh, and as a side benefit, these runs are actually more fun at least for me.

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

Ahem. It would still be the OPs fault. English isn't my native language either, doesn't stop me from reading/writing quite bit better than a lot of native speakers. Its just laziness, what you dont know, you google :P

Exactly, I have a few cheat sheets with Chinese on them and also have bookmarked portugese and italian online dictionaries to be able to do some basic communication as needed as we do have so many players from other parts of the world on Sarlona. If something is in the lfm, I look it up and decide to join or not join based on that. I prefer LFM's that have something typed in it, as it indicates to me the person is trying to communicate their wants/desires.

I join pugs often, and I read the lfm's and ask questions as needed, even if that means going to my online dictionary and figuring out what I need to ask and translating the reply.

In Roving Guns, if we are running the Shroud Raid, it will 90% of the time state /slash death at such and such %, and we verbally repeat this at the beginning of the raid, and again at the beginning of part 5. If we are the puggers in another's raid, we follow the raid leader's rules, even if it is not run how we want to run it.

If people don't read LFM's, I don't feel sorry for them, period. And yes way too many people do not read LFM's. Hopefully a lesson to read LFM's gets learned, or to ask if you don't understand something. Unfortunately, most of those that this occurs to, are like the OP and will seek to blame it on others rather than any shortcoming of, and therefore responsibility on their part.

Now this does not condone griefing, I remember a pug shroud I joined last month, was run by some Brazilian players. The raid leader said repeatedly and in English mind you, that do not hit the lfm as he and several others would be d door'ing out at the end. Well some turd hit the altar before 5 secs had past and right after the leader again reminded everyone while Harry was being killed not to touch it. Not cool in my book, and I wish I had seen who had done it so they could make the short list.

[Healsavant]

Nope, I hold no grudge, I was booted from an edq by kheg when uncle mah bowed out because there was someone he didn't want to run with, I was flagged and ready to roll. Now kheg is no doubt one of the most knowledge and capable people on sarlona, and has done a LOT for me over the years and I have learned a lot from him, and has always had my respect. That being said I'm still not gonna let him %#&$ on me. I feel I'm owed a simple yet sincere apology. And I have never quit a group on kheg, nor stolen anyone from his runs. But like anyone if I feel wronged I have the choice not to party with people until I'm satisfied the issue is resolved. Kheg miss ya bro, wish you were running with me, always an easier run to complete when your in the group.

[dior10276]

I understand zerg, but would you really want all of your healing to leave with 10% left? Would be quite funny if the group wiped with just a sliver left because all healers deathed/out of quest as to not finish. If I were party leader, I probably would ask healers about their plans, if the sorc or bard leaves or a tank, no worries, but the healer?

My 2 cents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vVAnjilaVv]

I don't know, this seems more like the typical lack of a cleric knowing how to push there weight around scenario.

Someone rushes my cleric....guess what...unless the other cleric(s) can fill my spot....they are wiping.....because I am no longer healing.

If I am the group healer....you will move at my pace.....END OF DISCUSSION!

If it comes between me drinking a mnemonic because people did not give me time to properly rest and me just saying to heck with it, they can die.......I'll still have all my potions as I recall out of the quest. And no I don't care about the rest of the party who had no call in the decision, because they are very capable of standing up to the leader and saying chill out while the cleric regens.

A speed zerg run doesn't mean a stupid, mindless run. Some things you still have to allow if you expect to be a competent leader people will listen to.

[iraiqat316]

To The LFM says it all, they take the risk of clerics not topping off they get what they get. Not a huge problem for me. Read the LFM if you don't like it don't join. Simple as a pimple.

I truly enjoy playing with everyone. I have besmirched a few players, (DMGPERSEC, Kehgeld, Intervention, and a few others) and have made apologies to them.

My advice is to play the game and enjoy it for what it is, a game.

Uncle Mahmood

[Zombiekenny]

I don't know, this seems more like the typical lack of a cleric knowing how to push there weight around scenario.

Someone rushes my cleric....guess what...unless the other cleric(s) can fill my spot....they are wiping.....because I am no longer healing.

If I am the group healer....you will move at my pace.....END OF DISCUSSION!

If it comes between me drinking a mnemonic because people did not give me time to properly rest and me just saying to heck with it, they can die.......I'll still have all my potions as I recall out of the quest.

You shouldn't have to drink pots if you are someone that should have clicked the clearly marked LFM.

[vVAnjilaVv]

You shouldn't have to drink pots if you are someone that should have clicked the clearly marked LFM.

From what I got out of it it said zerg run in the LFM...what does that have to do with not letting a cleric get their SP back.


My issue isn't with them not getting to recall out at the end. I personally always felt like being able to do that was kind of like cheating anyways LOL.

[Paleus]

Isn't the problem already fixed by the 'blacklist' method in any of a variety of possible scenarios?

The OP didn't want to join a shroud that zerged through and that may or may not have been in the LFM text. Now, after blacklisting the group he won't have to be part of those types of runs.

On the flip-side, the zerg group doesn't have to put up with someone who doesn't read LFM texts (if that is the case here) and isn't up to the challenge of healing a zerg group. Him not grouping with them is the same as them not grouping with him.

If, on the other hand, zerg /death wasn't clearly stated in the LFM and the raid leader did screw things up, then the OP doesn't have to group with people who don't spell out atypical expectations.

The only other scenario where I can see a problem is if the zerg group wasn't sufficient to the task of actually zerging and expected the healer to mana pot chug to carry them through it. In that case, as a healer, don't sp pot chug to carry a group through a quest they can't handle on their own unless you actually want to do that. Again, blacklist and problem solved.

So, in the end, blacklisting people or groups you don't like running with solves the problem of you telling them how to play and them telling you how to play. Each of you will eventually only be able to group with people who match your playstyle.

[TitoJ]

I don't know, this seems more like the typical lack of a cleric knowing how to push there weight around scenario.

Someone rushes my cleric....guess what...unless the other cleric(s) can fill my spot....they are wiping.....because I am no longer healing.

If I am the group healer....you will move at my pace.....END OF DISCUSSION!



Exactly why I made my own cleric lol...because the age old if you can't find someone who can...do it yourself is so true, especially with demanding, whiny, pouty clerics lol....wait...that's all in my bio isn't it?

[vVAnjilaVv]

Isn't the problem already fixed by the 'blacklist' method in any of a variety of possible scenarios?

The OP didn't want to join a shroud that zerged through and that may or may not have been in the LFM text. Now, after blacklisting the group he won't have to be part of those types of runs.

On the flip-side, the zerg group doesn't have to put up with someone who doesn't read LFM texts (if that is the case here) and isn't up to the challenge of healing a zerg group. Him not grouping with them is the same as them not grouping with him.

If, on the other hand, zerg /death wasn't clearly stated in the LFM and the raid leader did screw things up, then the OP doesn't have to group with people who don't spell out atypical expectations.

The only other scenario where I can see a problem is if the zerg group wasn't sufficient to the task of actually zerging and expected the healer to mana pot chug to carry them through it. In that case, as a healer, don't sp pot chug to carry a group through a quest they can't handle on their own unless you actually want to do that. Again, blacklist and problem solved.

So, in the end, blacklisting people or groups you don't like running with solves the problem of you telling them how to play and them telling you how to play. Each of you will eventually only be able to group with people who match your playstyle.

That's what I am saying.....the games social circles filter things out eventually. I try not to be overly sensitive to things neither, unless somebody does something really heinous I just let it roll of my shoulders......I also love squelching people....that really annoys the he** out of them when they are barking orders at you and you don't respond.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Exactly why I made my own cleric lol...because the age old if you can't find someone who can...do it yourself is so true, especially with demanding, whiny, pouty clerics lol....wait...that's all in my bio isn't it?

I think so.....I haven't read it in a while tho :D thanks for the refresh :p

[Chai]

Trying to get someone kicked from their guild is a beach move. The mentality is akin to calling the cops for someone winning a fight you started. "I dont like how you play so I am going to try to cause you as much suffering as possible." /barf

Put them on your noob list and move on.

Why farm everything but part 5 anyhow? Are you collecting tier 1 holy greensteel weapons, but only want to make one of them tier 3?

[vVAnjilaVv]

Trying to get someone kicked from their guild is a beach move. The mentality is akin to calling the cops for someone winning a fight you started. "I dont like how you play so I am going to try to cause you as much suffering as possible." /barf

Put them on your noob list and move on.

Why farm everything but part 5 anyhow? Are you collecting tier 1 holy greensteel weapons, but only want to make one of them tier 3?

There is nothing wrong with bringing something up to a guild leader if it's an actual important issue......sensitivities vary upon player tho soooo......personally I would rather do half the work....squelch and add them to my list and be done with it rather than having a pow wow with the guild as well.

I can think of one guild in particular that I absolutely hate and detest who happen to have one of my favorite players in it.

I have a question tho for the OP...were you one of the clerics or are you just speaking on their behalf, and if so did you know for a fact they were upset about the issue...sorry I haven't scanned the whole thread yet.

One thing I know for sure....it's never worth speaking on someone else's behalf because YOU think it's the right thing to do.

[mws2970]

Why farm everything but part 5 anyhow? Are you collecting tier 1 holy greensteel weapons, but only want to make one of them tier 3?

I see lots of LFM's up farming part 1 for the shard.

[TitoJ]

My final opinion would be that, given I haven't played them all to 20, I've played every class in the game to at least 14, aside from fvs and monk, and I've heard all the classic crying over every class. Throughout all that I have come across an immense amount more of clerics who demand you go slow, than zergers who demand you speed up.

If the lfm says Zerg, just do it man....we listen to you cry all the time, I listen to myself cry when I play my cleric, and I take the brunt of it when my healing does lousy in zergs too.

I think the least you can do is try to go as fast as you can blaze through, and try your doggone hardest to do everything you can to keep everyone healed, no matter what...if the lfm says Zerg. If you feel like you gotta drink an sp pot...just do it and shut up! I mean what else were you gonna do with that pot? Save it for later? Did you waste a lot of plat buying those things? I'm sorry, *** else were you gonna do with that plat? Pay your mortgage?

I mean I've stood back and watched noobs hack through mobs, when I could have been light years ahead of them, just because that's what the group wanted to stay together... give them zergers a break on their own lfm's yo!

[Gunga]

If I am the group healer....you will move at my pace.....END OF DISCUSSION!

Please understand that healers are not at such a premium that you can supercede the group leader and run the raid as you see fit.

It would be helpful for you to take notice that really good healers are difficult to keep up with. If you are lagging behind, deliberately taking your time to impose your will on the group, you might not be in the "really good healer" category. That would make your coup of the raid less dramatic and certainly earn you a place on DNG lists.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Once again, since when has the word zerg translated to Mnemonic pot usage required....I think this is a poor expectation......how long does it take to let a cleric top off their mana.....seriously...what were you gonna do with that extra 60 seconds of your life...save it for later?

[vVAnjilaVv]

Please understand that healers are not at such a premium that you can supercede the group leader and run the raid as you see fit.

It would be helpful for you to take notice that really good healers are difficult to keep up with. If you are lagging behind, deliberately taking your time to impose your will on the group, you might not be in the "really good healer" category. That would make your coup of the raid less dramatic and certainly earn you a place on DNG lists.

I by no means was talking about deliberately lagging behind and holding up the group...that's extremely lame for anyone to do.....I mean someone rushing me out of my normal playstyle to the point where I become spastik. If they push that hard then I WILL deliberatly start lagging behind just to annoy them. And yes...good clerics are at a such a premium that they can control the flow of things quite a bit....GOOD ones mind you...not clerics in general.

I think this is totally bordering on the it's all the clerics fault mentality if a group wipes.......a cleric does not have to be super speedy zerger to be good, and a lot of those so called "good fast clerics" are probably that way because they are forced to be to keep up with people who think they are all that and just wade into all their battles carelessly. I have stopped caring about such players a long time ago........you want success.....this is how it works...you follow the flow....not the leader.

[Cashiry]

2: hitting the alter without giving time to d door out is
greifing imo.


Its not griefing.... you entered a quest that players were completing(which is how the devs wanted the dungeon to be played)... if you didnt want to complete dont do the quest at all or figure out how to do it by yourself.....


that is all... have a good day

[TitoJ]

I by no means was talking about deliberately lagging behind and holding up the group...that's extremely lame for anyone to do.....I mean someone rushing me out of my normal playstyle to the point where I become spastik. If they push that hard then I WILL deliberatly start lagging behind just to annoy them. And yes...good clerics are at a such a premium that they can control the flow of things quite a bit....GOOD ones mind you...not clerics in general.

Zerging can rush people out of their normal play style...if they push too hard and you can't handle it then don't join up lol. I mean like I said...you whiners complain so much in your own fancy pansy lfm's, the most you can do is keep up at all costs like everyone else does, during a zerg. If it's outside your normal playstyle, don't zerg. This is making me wanna zerg some fancy pansy group now...lol.

Cleric's are not hard to play...their just not the most popular choice.

[Gunga]

And yes...good clerics are at a such a premium that they can control the flow of things quite a bit....GOOD ones mind you...not clerics in general.

This is contrary to my experience on the servers where I play...if a cleric is even needed/wanted at all.


I have stopped caring about such players a long time ago........you want success.....this is how it works...you follow the flow....not the leader.

Actually, dictating that there is one way that something works could mean that the dictator hasn't found a better way yet. In my experience, success can take form in any number of ways, including trying to keep up with the zerg flow, which the OP clearly could not.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Zerging can rush people out of their normal play style...if they push too hard and you can't handle it then don't join up lol. I mean like I said...you whiners complain so much in your own fancy pansy lfm's, the most you can do is keep up at all costs like everyone else does, during a zerg. If it's outside your normal playstyle, don't zerg. This is making me wanna zerg some fancy pansy group now...lol.

Cleric's are not hard to play...their just not the most popular choice.

Like I said a bazillion times...since when does zerg mean you are not allowed to get your mana back........geez...read much?


And a lot of times a good leader will slow down a little to at least allow someone who is otherwise a good contributing player to get into a good rhythm with the group.

Seriously, if you only plan on playing at your own speed no exceptions...don't put the LFM up.


A leader who listens to noone but themselves is no longer a leader...they are a dictator.....and dictators as well as the people who blindly follow them are a waste of life.

[Gunga]

Seriously, if you only plan on playing at your own speed no exceptions...don't put the LFM up.

Seriously, though, you could also put an LFM implicitly stating what you plan to do and then do it.

[TitoJ]

My favorite thing about playing a cleric, is booting clerics from parties on other char's, and saying "if we don't find a good one who isn't a whiner, then I'll log mine on".

[Quikster]

I by no means was talking about deliberately lagging behind and holding up the group...that's extremely lame for anyone to do.....I mean someone rushing me out of my normal playstyle to the point where I become spastik. If they push that hard then I WILL deliberatly start lagging behind just to annoy them. And yes...good clerics are at a such a premium that they can control the flow of things quite a bit....GOOD ones mind you...not clerics in general.

I think this is totally bordering on the it's all the clerics fault mentality if a group wipes.......a cleric does not have to be super speedy zerger to be good, and a lot of those so called "good fast clerics" are probably that way because they are forced to be to keep up with people who think they are all that and just wade into all their battles carelessly. I have stopped caring about such players a long time ago........you want success.....this is how it works...you follow the flow....not the leader.

In our runs the cleric is often times the first one in the next part. If you cant keep up, dont join.

[vVAnjilaVv]

[/COLOR]

This is contrary to my experience on the servers where I play...if a cleric is even needed/wanted at all.

[COLOR=cyan]

Actually, dictating that there is one way that something works could mean that the dictator hasn't found a better way yet. In my experience, success can take form in any number of ways, including trying to keep up with the zerg flow, which the OP clearly could not.

Well we all decipher thinng differently I guess....in my experience...zerging has never meant I was not going to be allowed time to get my mana back....if I had been a cleric in this group I would have been quite put off too.

[vVAnjilaVv]

In our runs the cleric is often times the first one in the next part. If you cant keep up, dont join.

I guess........and people call this a group game....makes me laugh....this kind of mentality hardly promotes group play. BTW, this is coming from a 4 year VET who can zerg just fine....but you know....."stuff" happens.

PS.....if your with more than just yourself........this is also a ridiculous attitude to have.

[Gunga]

I guess........and people call this a group game....makes me laugh....this kind of mentality hardly promotes group play. BTW, this is coming from a 4 year VET who can zerg just fine....but you know....."stuff" happens.

I don't agree.

It promotes like-minded group play. A person who wants to zerg but can't doesn't come here to complain...they try again in 3 days. A person who didn't know what zerg meant and now hates it comes here to find friends whom they can sniff flowers with.

Every winds up happier, really.

[Quikster]

I guess........and people call this a group game....makes me laugh....this kind of mentality hardly promotes group play. BTW, this is coming from a 4 year VET who can zerg just fine....but you know....."stuff" happens.

PS.....if your with more than just yourself........this is also a ridiculous attitude to have.

Funny that my mentality doesnt promote group play, yet many players are practically begging to get into my lfms. Guess it promotes enough of group play for me to advance in this game, and has for several years now.

[Quikster]

Well we all decipher thinng differently I guess....in my experience...zerging has never meant I was not going to be allowed time to get my mana back....if I had been a cleric in this group I would have been quite put off too.

What zerging means in the shroud, is get your mana back at the shrine, and move on to the next part.

[vVAnjilaVv]

I don't agree.

It promotes like-minded group play. A person who wants to zerg but can't doesn't come here to complain...they try again in 3 days. A person who didn't know what zerg meant and now hates it comes here to find friends whom they can sniff flowers with.

Every winds up happier, really.

See this is another COMPLETELY erroneous life style I hate.....the dog that sees in black and white instead of the cat that sees in color.

If you're not a zerger you're a flower sniffer.........seriously.....even the dog that sees in black and white is aware of the many shades of gray that go with it.

Totally absurd mentality...also very limiting to true progress.

[TitoJ]

Someone rushes my cleric....guess what...unless the other cleric(s) can fill my spot....they are wiping.....because I am no longer healing.

If I am the group healer....you will move at my pace.....END OF DISCUSSION!


I mean someone rushing me out of my normal playstyle to the point where I become spastik. If they push that hard then I WILL deliberatly start lagging behind just to annoy them. And yes...good clerics are at a such a premium that they can control the flow of things quite a bit....GOOD ones mind you...not clerics in general.


It's not really what I had in mind as a zerger? I don't know. It's nothing my zerging cleric would say that's for sure. First part of my bio is "The cleric is NOT a god, so quit thanking me for my heals. I don't thank you for your killing, because it's just expected. Don't try to make me more than what I am."

It's really something that brings you to reality. You don't kill..you don't get quest completion. You don't heal, you CAN still get quest completion...lol.

[Pape_27]

]In Roving Guns, if we are running the Shroud Raid, it will 90% of the time state /slash death at such and such %, and we verbally repeat this at the beginning of the raid, and again at the beginning of part 5.



Question for you Dozen (or anyone else who makes these types of runs). When you run a raid like this, in Part 5, when harry hits what ever % you indicated in the run, do you let the people in the group know its time to bail?

I know when i run my healer in the shroud, I target one person for the heals. If i am swinging away, I target myself and just swing away. When i drop to 50%, i press the hot key for mass heal/mass cure mod. If Im not in the melee group, I target the person who seems to take the most damage and when they drop to a certain level, I cast.

I rarely if ever target harry to see what his status is. (Too afraid to botch a heal i guess to see where Harry stands in terms of hp). I am wondering if someone lets the people who want to leave know its now time to go.

[TitoJ]

Tip #433234

Don't ever join an lfm posted by a cleric. It's bad enough when they try to take over your lfm...can you imagine?

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Tip #433234

Don't ever join an lfm posted by a cleric. It's bad enough when they try to take over your lfm...can you imagine?

LOL, +1 for this ;)

[Quikster]

Question for you Dozen. When you run a raid like this, in Part 5, when harry hits what ever % you indicated in the run, do you let the people in the group know its time to bail?

I know when i run my healer in the shroud, I target one person for the heals. If i am swinging away, I target myself and just swing away. When i drop to 50%, i press the hot key for mass heal/mass cure mod. If Im not in the melee group, I target the person who seems to take the most damage and when they drop to a certain level, I cast.

I rarely if ever target harry to see what his status is. (Too afraid to botch a heal i guess to see where Harry stands in terms of hp). I am wondering if someone lets the people who want to leave know its now time to go.

Yes they usually do, as do we. If i forget to say something i give people time to get out as its my bad.

[Gunga]

See this is another COMPLETELY erroneous life style I hate.....the dog that sees in black and white instead of the cat that sees in color.

If you're not a zerger you're a flower sniffer.........seriously.....even the dog that sees in black and white is aware of the many shades of gray that go with it.

Totally absurd mentality...also very limiting to true progress.

Maybe you're right, this might be an issue of dog person vs cat person.

I am a proud dog lover, I've shared my home with dogs all of my life.

I, however, am, unlike my dog or your cat, fully capable of seeing the world in your shades of rose, but for the sake of this thread, I choose not to get in to the nuances of the OPs zerging behavior. He's obviously not a zerger and needs time to look through the chest, adjust his inventory, hand out buffs, get a drink, and then shrine (flower sniff for short).

As to your concern of limiting true progress, I'd like to offer you the insight that perhaps the zerg gets to the next evolution before the lollygag.

[Gunga]

Godwin's Law FTW!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

+1. ****, that's funny.

[mws2970]

Godwin's Law FTW!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

LMAFO! Touche! +1

edit: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DelScorcho again.

[Quikster]

LMAFO! Touche! +1

edit: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DelScorcho again.

I hit him for ya.

A guildie said the same thing when I linked him to that post lol.

[LordPiglet]

Question for you Dozen (or anyone else who makes these types of runs). When you run a raid like this, in Part 5, when harry hits what ever % you indicated in the run, do you let the people in the group know its time to bail?

I know when i run my healer in the shroud, I target one person for the heals. If i am swinging away, I target myself and just swing away. When i drop to 50%, i press the hot key for mass heal/mass cure mod. If Im not in the melee group, I target the person who seems to take the most damage and when they drop to a certain level, I cast.

I rarely if ever target harry to see what his status is. (Too afraid to botch a heal i guess to see where Harry stands in terms of hp). I am wondering if someone lets the people who want to leave know its now time to go.

Yes, they usually call out, and type out to bail if you're going to bail.

[bendover]

To the cleric who wants to attempt to dictate how a raid is going to go please avoid any LFM under the toon name: Intervention, or Interfering. I lead alot of raids very frequently and have alot of LFMs up with pretty good success rate and I don't need anyone who isn't going to listen or follow my instructions.

[elricken]

So now your comparing a video game playstyle preference to genocide. Go troll somewhere else, take your whiny cleric attitude with you.

+1 for quik lmao.

Best post in this thread.


If I am on one of my healers in the shroud I am the first into the next part clearing trash (melee on my cleric, BB on my fvs). If you want me to heal you, don't annoy me and keep up.

I just don't get spending forever in shroud or waiting for an "ideal" group, if it can be soloed and duoed it can be done successfully with just about any party makeup in a time efficient manner.

EDIT: Can't yet :(

[vVAnjilaVv]

Godwin's Law FTW!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

I want something new...I cited David Koresh too :p

[Thorboar]

I want something new...I cited David Koresh too :p


I haven't heard about anyone drinking the kool-aid....I guess I just did...

[DelScorcho]

I want something new...I cited David Koresh too :p

Doesn't matter ... You already lost the thread ...

[vVAnjilaVv]

So now your comparing a video game playstyle preference to genocide. Go troll somewhere else, take your whiny cleric attitude with you.

Aww.....did I make it sound like ur popularity wasn't legitimate.....lack of options doesn't mean the only ones that lie before you are good ones.

I wasn't bashing zergers or calling the OP a flower sniffer....the only person with an attitude here is you because I didn't come to the rescue of the ZERGERS UNTITED ELITE, INC. and jump on their bandwagon.

By the way, I don't have a cat or a dog.....why would I want something living with me that can't take showers, clean up after itself or knows how to use a bathroom properly.

Funny how the only people giving me an attitude are all the people who are defending the zerg playstyle......I think that speaks very loudly about who has the attitude problem.

[MeToo]

not giving clrs time to fill there sp bars after pt 2 and pt 5. then hitting the alter immediately after harry dies saying "you were suppose to /death out before he died". welcome to the black list buddy. i'll be contacting ur guild leader to make ur greifing known. should that not get the job done, ur entire guild will make the list.

* 1:forcing clr to drink sp pots to keep up when there is plenty of time to fill up with pools is unacceptable
2:who would have been healing u at 10% if we'd /death out? hitting the alter without giving time to d door out is
greifing imo.

Formula for success in Shroud:
DPS * experience * healer ability * healer pot drinking > quest difficulty

If a group has high DPS and knows what they're doing, you can be a decent healer and not drink any pots. If the product of their skill and your healing and the groups experience isn't enough without drinking pots, then you always have the option of leaving. Either you'll get better, they'll get better, or the two of you will know not to group together any more.

How long does it take to shrine? As cleric, you can get in 10 seconds after the rest and everything will still be fine. I don't understand why you'd need to shrine after part 5. The raid's over, right?

I don't think they were intentionally "griefing" you based on the fact that this is an efficient and accepted way to get shrouds done.

I wait for players to recall if they don't want to finish but it gets tedious waiting for people who don't respond or let you know if they're out or not yet. Ddoor is a bad idea since it's as slow as recalling and you can get trapped and miss chests. /death is the fastest way to get out and safely make sure you don't go on timer unintentionally.

Groups that run zerg /death Shrouds will have plenty of DPS and self sufficiency to take down Harry from a sliver without you in part 5.

I'd give it another chance. Better luck next time.

Happy Adventuring!

[PopeJual]

By the way, I don't have a cat or a dog.....why would I want something living with me that can't take showers, clean up after itself or knows how to use a bathroom properly.

DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY!!!1!!1!one!


By the way, I don't have a cat or a dog.....why would I want something living with me that can't take showers, clean up after itself or knows how to use a bathroom properly.

I'm sorry. :(

[k1ngp1n]

*sniff* *sniff* Do I smell troll? *sniff* Yep. That's troll alright.

Hold on hunny, I'm gonna go get some lighter fluid....

[stoopid_cowboy]

Go troll somewhere else, take your whiny cleric attitude with you.


Hahahahaha
Quik has a way with words I can never hope to have.

I don't inderstand the whiney attitude. Just complete and move on.
I am not a shroud zerger, but I dont see much point in throwing every buff in the book for part1, every buff including fire resist AND FoM before part 2, everyone shrining before part 3, and EVERY buff in the book before part 4 (includung poison resist on everyone including monks and WF), then waiting in part 5 for everybody to have full blue bars before beating on the ele.
It's just the shroud people! I was in a successful 10 man group last night with one healer!

yuda

[TheDearLeader]

Too long, didn't read past page 2.

It still amazes me how people want to hurry up and complete Shroud to go ... sit in another LFM. The extra 10 seconds of recalling, or DDooring, have never made me miss another quest or raid. Switch to decaf.

To OP: If you're having to drink a pot in Part 5, and that's abnormal to you (it should be).. then let them die. If they want you to /death out at 10%? Do it... and let them die.

[Fomori]

I haven't heard about anyone drinking the kool-aid....I guess I just did...
Jim Jones had his congregation drink cyanide-laced grape Flavor-Aid! :)

[Diib]

I was actually in this run. There are a few things left out.

The raid leader was a dps barbarian, and he TWICE in part 4 typed in party chat reminding everyone to /death out when harry was at 10% in part 5. Just for good measure, he repeated it once more in the beginning of part 5. If you were paying attention at all you would have known about the /death.

Also, there was not a need for the "healers" to have mana. The group had two clerics, a bard and a dps fvs (I was the fvs). While we were dead in part 5 the raid leader said "no kiting, just kill", and when we started harry both the fvs and bard were at just about full mana. Yes the clerics were low on mana from buffing, and no, no one waited for them to top off, but that was the instruction that was given.

There was never a danger of there not being enough healing. There was no need to wait for mana bars. I have run raids with the leader before, and his style can be annoying if you are not used to it. Its a pretty thoughtless zerg. But its not fair to say you weren't warned. If you ever glanced at party chat the instructions were right there.

One person /deathed out, the altar was hit as soon as completion was up, and then several people got mad because they didn't have a chance to leave. The raid leader (who was not being diplomatic about it) reminded people that he had said to /death out several times. Which he had.

EVEN if you had ignored the zerg, /death lfm, there were further instructions in the raid itself. I think people throwing blist threats back and forth ("you didn't wait, you made my special list" .... "you didn't read instructions, you just made MY special list") at the end of the raid was just pointless on both sides.

[Kronik]

Not waiting for Clerics to get thier mana back is Lame.

That being said if I was told in advance that we were were in such a big hurry, I would just have saved my mana and not buffed anyone.

At the end of the day all that really matters is if you completed the quest or not in a timley matter, so if you got completion then why complain about it.

If you didn't /death after being told too, get over it you can run it again soon enough.

Did I mention that not waiting for clerics to get thier mana back is Lame. If you've never played a cleric before then you probably wouldn't know or care, so I guess its no worth wasting the time explaining. However, if your group has DPS to take Harry down fast enough so that the Cleric dosen't have to stress out while you hit the easy button then do it to it!

[Iwinbyrollup]

Quik's latest post sums it up well. I am not a big fan of zerging. So I don't join LFMs that say they're zerging! If I do join a zerg LFM and get upset about it, that's my own.dang.fault. Why the heck would I join a zerg LFM if I didn't want to zerg? It's as easy as that. This has nothing to do with whether zerging is better than not zerging; it has everything to do with reading the LFM.

[Faent]

If they want you to /death out at 10%? Do it... and let them die.

Um, they're not going to die. If you joined, then /death out and let them complete the run they started and you joined in the way they want to complete it. But if you think you can gloat about them dying, then you just don't understand that other people might really know what they're doing AND have more skills than you're capable of imagining. You joined, so you /death out. They'll finish just fine.

[Samadhi]

Quik's latest post sums it up well. I am not a big fan of zerging. So I don't join LFMs that say they're zerging! If I do join a zerg LFM and get upset about it, that's my own.dang.fault. Why the heck would I join a zerg LFM if I didn't want to zerg? It's as easy as that. This has nothing to do with whether zerging is better than not zerging; it has everything to do with reading the LFM.

Exactly dude. Couldn't say it better myself.

Just got done with a shroud. Starting in part 4, and repeated continuously between 14-16 times by the party leader, the party was instructed to /death, DD, w/e they had to do to LEAVE when Arrae was at 50%. Apparently 14-16 times giving obvious instructions wasn't enough. Tells to the party leader after we finished included:

pug1:
ty a.. hole

pug2:
thank you imbecile.... you suck

Of course, they were also told to kill the gnoll first, and only two of the melees did that - so surprise isn't really the right word. I just wish my squelch list wasn't full - because I really want to avoid such blatant egotism in the future. That said, /plug for the thread in my sig :(

[thisgamesull]

I just wish my squelch list wasn't full - because I really want to avoid such blatant egotism in the future. :(

Im guessing 70% are old platfarmers:eek:

[Knighthack]

It just seems to be the problem of the pugs not looking at the LFM:

[TitoJ]

Mmmmm...I'm feeling a zerg coming on tonight.

[sweez]

Would it really kill anyone to just /death {hahaha} out at 5 or 10% and be done with it so everyone can get going on with what they want to do? The street goes both ways.

If the people who /death-ed out at 10% happened to be the divines, it *would* probably kill all the uber-pro players who think they're the bee's knees but go down faster than a drunk girl on prom night without someone spam-healing them. Not that it would be a bad thing.

Just a thought. :)

[Pape_27]

If the people who /death-ed out at 10% happened to be the divines, it *would* probably kill all the uber-pro players who think they're the bee's knees but go down faster than a drunk girl on prom night without someone spam-healing them. Not that it would be a bad thing.

Just a thought. :)

No, with harry tendon sliced and exhausted, the upp's would have no problem bringing harry down at all. And really, there have been no caster shroud runs in the past that have suceeded. So its been proven that the raid can be run without major healage.

There is no reason to believe that the remaining party members could not take harry down from whatever point they have decided. And whos' to say that the other divine caster(s) didnt stay for a completion?

_

[Iwinbyrollup]

If the people who /death-ed out at 10% happened to be the divines, it *would* probably kill all the uber-pro players who think they're the bee's knees but go down faster than a drunk girl on prom night without someone spam-healing them. Not that it would be a bad thing.

Just a thought. :)
I think it would be a good lesson for them. I imagine you agree.

My guess is a lot of the people who do /death runs know that they're capable of finishing the quest at that point almost entirely by themselves. If they're not capable and they die because of it, then they might be more willing to not do /death runs. And people overestimate the need of a healer in the Shroud on a second-to-second basis. Useful for fighting through the blades in part 4. Useful for keeping up while fighting Harry. But when Harry is at 5% or 10%? Unless the group is almost entirely dead at that point, I can't imagine what group makeup wouldn't be able to complete if all healing stopped then.

I don't entirely understand why it matters what happens to the rest though. If I decide I don't want to complete on my cleric and am asked to /death out near the end of part 5, then I will /death out. If they die without me due to lack of healing...so what? I'll feel bad that they didn't get their completion, but it otherwise has nothing to do with me. I didn't ragequit. I didn't act like a jerk. I didn't expect the group to work around me rather than be cooperative. I didn't abandon the group to die because of spitefulness. I did absolutely nothing wrong. I did exactly what the group wanted. I wasn't going to complete anyway, so I lost nothing out of the deal aside from a death. Why should I be spiteful or upset about them not waiting until Harry's down instead of having me leave <30 seconds before that? Heck, if I'm not completing, then I've already wasted time in part 5 since I don't get anything out of it--the only reason I'm in part 5 is because I'm helping the people who want completion. Note that I think it would be reprehensible to leave after looting in part 4; I'm not suggesting leaving then, I'm just noting that there is no advantage to sticking around until Harry is dead other than assisting other people get their desired completions. If they don't want me to stick around, there is absolutely no reason to do so.

In this hypothetical case, they're the ones who lost out. If I hadn't left the group, maybe they wouldn't have wiped. But that was the group's decision to risk it. I'll feel bad that they didn't get their completion they were trying to get very quickly in the first place, but it was their decision to use a risky method to get it and it didn't work for them this time. It probably usually would work.

[vVAnjilaVv]

I hope I can say this without too much consideration of everything else I posted in here.....plain and simply all I was trying to say from the start was......

People decipher things in a different way....it is very easily possible to read something and understand it says zerg but have a different interpretation of what they mean by zerg for a particular run.

I don't think it is really as simple as reading an LFM and automatically knowing how it's going to pan out, there are too many variables in my opinion and I really do not think we are on that much of a unified thinking pattern that it is safe to assume everyone who joins a party...zerg listed or not.....knows exactly what they are in for.

The game is not DDO: Stormreach anymore where the population was small and just about every new player that came along was nursed thru and explained to what such and such meant in general......it's DDO:EU....people are coming in from all over, people from different cultures, from different games....you can't honestly expect all these new players to just bow down to what the players that where here for the sub only version of the game defined things as.

LFM's in general are like playing roulette.....you can put a 20 page text in the comments box, doesn't mean your going to get everyone on the same page as you, honestly a leader who just says keep up or to heck with you is not a leader at all, more a person that just wanted to bring along a few people to showoff too or wants someone in the instance in case they DC or have connection problems. If it is someone deliberately griefing you or causing problems I can see giving them an attitude....but this is far from always the case.

I'm not saying zerging is wrong at all, I am just saying putting a few words in the LFM box and expectating everyone to read your mind is a completely unrealistic assumption ......especially now that the game has expanded as much as it has.

[Quikster]

I hope I can say this without too much consideration of everything else I posted in here.....plain and simply all I was trying to say from the start was......

People decipher things in a different way....it is very easily possible to read something and understand it says zerg but have a different interpretation of what they mean by zerg for a particular run.

I don't think it is really as simple as reading an LFM and automatically knowing how it's going to pan out, there are too many variables in my opinion and I really do not think we are on that much of a unified thinking pattern that it is safe to assume everyone who joins a party...zerg listed or not.....knows exactly what they are in for.

The game is not DDO: Stormreach anymore where the population was small and just about every new player that came along was nursed thru and explained to what such and such meant in general......it's DDO:EU....people are coming in from all over, people from different cultures, from different games....you can't honestly expect all these new players to just bow down to what the players that where here for the sub only version of the game defined things as.

LFM's in general are like playing roulette.....you can put a 20 page text in the comments box, doesn't mean your going to get everyone on the same page as you, honestly a leader who just says keep up or to heck with you is not a leader at all, more a person that just wanted to bring along a few people to showoff too or wants someone in the instance in case they DC or have connection problems. If it is someone deliberately griefing you or causing problems I can see giving them an attitude....but this is far from always the case.

I'm not saying zerging is wrong at all, I am just saying putting a few words in the LFM box and expectating everyone to read your mind is a completely unrealistic assumption ......especially now that the game has expanded as much as it has.

I dont disagre, but we really arent talking about a new person. The OP has been playing the game for a while. He knows exactly what zerg is.

[LordPiglet]

I think it would be a good lesson for them. I imagine you agree.

My guess is a lot of the people who do /death runs know that they're capable of finishing the quest at that point almost entirely by themselves. If they're not capable and they die because of it, then they might be more willing to not do /death runs. And people overestimate the need of a healer in the Shroud on a second-to-second basis. Useful for fighting through the blades in part 4. Useful for keeping up while fighting Harry. But when Harry is at 5% or 10%? Unless the group is almost entirely dead at that point, I can't imagine what group makeup wouldn't be able to complete if all healing stopped then.

I don't entirely understand why it matters what happens to the rest though. If I decide I don't want to complete on my cleric and am asked to /death out near the end of part 5, then I will /death out. If they die without me due to lack of healing...so what? I'll feel bad that they didn't get their completion, but it otherwise has nothing to do with me. I didn't ragequit. I didn't act like a jerk. I didn't expect the group to work around me rather than be cooperative. I didn't abandon the group to die because of spitefulness. I did absolutely nothing wrong. I did exactly what the group wanted. I wasn't going to complete anyway, so I lost nothing out of the deal aside from a death. Why should I be spiteful or upset about them not waiting until Harry's down instead of having me leave <30 seconds before that? Heck, if I'm not completing, then I've already wasted time in part 5 since I don't get anything out of it--the only reason I'm in part 5 is because I'm helping the people who want completion. Note that I think it would be reprehensible to leave after looting in part 4; I'm not suggesting leaving then, I'm just noting that there is no advantage to sticking around until Harry is dead other than assisting other people get their desired completions. If they don't want me to stick around, there is absolutely no reason to do so.

In this hypothetical case, they're the ones who lost out. If I hadn't left the group, maybe they wouldn't have wiped. But that was the group's decision to risk it. I'll feel bad that they didn't get their completion they were trying to get very quickly in the first place, but it was their decision to use a risky method to get it and it didn't work for them this time. It probably usually would work.

Except you're missing out some things

On the runs like this I've been on, Harry is down in under 2 minutes. I'm taking so little damage on my exploiter, I'm normally not double mad stoned. If I happen to get double madstoned, the majority of the time Harry's already under 25%. That last 5-10% is less then 15 seconds. Not the 30 seconds you see in a terribad pug.

I've been a pug member on these, 20-25 minutes to run one of these, everyone knows their puzzle, everyone runs water, everyone contributes. This isn't some 45+ minute run where I end up doing 3 puzzles, multishotting the crystals down for the fountain and running water, while people are standing around the center because they're almost dead from one blade hit.

[Tholar]

Wow totally awesome. Did you just compare a style of playing a video game to genocide? Did you just compare Quik to Hitler AND David Koresh? Can I have your autograph?

Now that Koresh and Hitler have been mentioned, can we call out the clowns?

http://www.death2ur.com/gacypogotheclown.jpg

[04pugdog04]

I was away from forums for a couple of days just read this whole thread and the one thing that sticks out to me is that know where did OP say he was on a cleric and did he no recall out in time. I actually think he was sticking up for the clerics that were there and may have been new. I am pretty sure I saw this group and he wasnt on a cleric. That is all let your regulary scheduled activities commence.

[Quikster]

I was away from forums for a couple of days just read this whole thread and the one thing that sticks out to me is that know where did OP say he was on a cleric and did he no recall out in time. I actually think he was sticking up for the clerics that were there and may have been new. I am pretty sure I saw this group and he wasnt on a cleric. That is all let your regulary scheduled activities commence.

/squelch pug off

Thats the way I read it as well

/squelch on

:)

[vVAnjilaVv]

Another thing that I think I was misquoted on was if I am in a group and I need a second to gather myself.....I mean what...you would rather have me playing at 50% of my ability because I am totally out of sync or you would rather give me a second and have 100% which will make the run end up getting done faster.

Either way, if someone in your party needs a couple seconds for something I think it should be granted....I'm not talking about an extended amount of time.

Either way, I wasn't in this particular Shroud run to begin with and honestly have to slap myself on the hand for even getting actually involved in this thread....it was silly and a complete waste of time on my part and I usually don't bother with these kind of things.

Something about seeing it pertain to clerics tho always gets me as I cannot stand the clerics who let themselves get pushed around because they have the "I'm a good obedient babysitter and I am automatically guilty if I am not a state of the art infinite IV drip" mentality. It makes playing mine all that much less enjoyable when people expect me to have that attitude on mine.

[rest]

I hope I can say this without too much consideration of everything else I posted in here.....plain and simply all I was trying to say from the start was......

People decipher things in a different way....it is very easily possible to read something and understand it says zerg but have a different interpretation of what they mean by zerg for a particular run.

I don't think it is really as simple as reading an LFM and automatically knowing how it's going to pan out, there are too many variables in my opinion and I really do not think we are on that much of a unified thinking pattern that it is safe to assume everyone who joins a party...zerg listed or not.....knows exactly what they are in for.

The game is not DDO: Stormreach anymore where the population was small and just about every new player that came along was nursed thru and explained to what such and such meant in general......it's DDO:EU....people are coming in from all over, people from different cultures, from different games....you can't honestly expect all these new players to just bow down to what the players that where here for the sub only version of the game defined things as.

LFM's in general are like playing roulette.....you can put a 20 page text in the comments box, doesn't mean your going to get everyone on the same page as you, honestly a leader who just says keep up or to heck with you is not a leader at all, more a person that just wanted to bring along a few people to showoff too or wants someone in the instance in case they DC or have connection problems. If it is someone deliberately griefing you or causing problems I can see giving them an attitude....but this is far from always the case.

I'm not saying zerging is wrong at all, I am just saying putting a few words in the LFM box and expectating everyone to read your mind is a completely unrealistic assumption ......especially now that the game has expanded as much as it has.

I'm pretty sure Mussolini gave a speech exactly like this once. Just sayin...

[vVAnjilaVv]

I'm pretty sure Mussolini gave a speech exactly like this once. Just sayin...

Proving once again I am not the only troll on the forums

[rest]

Proving once again I am not the only troll on the forums

At least I'm trolling the troll. ;) And this is my home server. Do you play here? Or you just wanted to stick your nose in?

Plus you're the one who came in here spouting off about Hitler and Koresh.

[vVAnjilaVv]

At least I'm trolling the trolls. ;)

Trolling the trolls you probably helped to create to begin with :p

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Another thing that I think I was misquoted on was if I am in a group and I need a second to gather myself.....I mean what...you would rather have me playing at 50% of my ability because I am totally out of sync or you would rather give me a second and have 100% which will make the run end up getting done faster.

Either way, if someone in your party needs a couple seconds for something I think it should be granted....I'm not talking about an extended amount of time.

Either way, I wasn't in this particular Shroud run to begin with and honestly have to slap myself on the hand for even getting actually involved in this thread....it was silly and a complete waste of time on my part and I usually don't bother with these kind of things.

Something about seeing it pertain to clerics tho always gets me as I cannot stand the clerics who let themselves get pushed around because they have the "I'm a good obedient babysitter and I am automatically guilty if I am not a state of the art infinite IV drip" mentality. It makes playing mine all that much less enjoyable when people expect me to have that attitude on mine.

I gotta say I have not seen a cleric play like the last part of your post here in a VERY long time. Clerics, by-and-large, have a thick skin about these issues.

Some people will just kill themselves no matter how much divine love you drop on them. People who know me fear running with my cleric....if you are NOT doing your job then I won't do mine. Simplicity wins here. Hit something, nuke/cc/enchant something....do whatever it is you do best....and I'll do my job.

Jerk off in the corner and you will die.(unless I know you and you are a dual-boxing piker ;)

Clerics usually don't get their panties all in a twist over a Shroud run anymore, its old news....I usually try to update my Linkedin or tweet someone while I mash mass heals or swing on a portal. Multitasking is NOT too hard in this game anymore, is it?

Wow, I'm wayyyyyy more tired than I thought...sorry for being all over the place there.

*wipes drool river from my face and gets back to "work"*

[Quikster]

Proving once again I am not the only troll on the forums

Far from it. No need to prove that. Most regular forumites have a lil troll in em. Sometimes our inner troll gets out and wreaks havoc, its what makes forums entertaining :)

[rest]

Now that Koresh and Hitler have been mentioned, can we call out the clowns?

http://www.death2ur.com/gacypogotheclown.jpg

This thread is now about serial killers being zergers.


That's right. Zergers = Dahmer. You read it here first. They murder and eat people.

[TitoJ]

I hope I can say this without too much consideration of everything else I posted in here.....plain and simply all I was trying to say from the start was......


I just gotta laugh. You got called out...deal with it...what you wrote now has nothing to do with what you actually were trying to say...


I don't know, this seems more like the typical lack of a cleric knowing how to push there weight around scenario.

Someone rushes my cleric....guess what...unless the other cleric(s) can fill my spot....they are wiping.....because I am no longer healing.

If I am the group healer....you will move at my pace.....END OF DISCUSSION!

If it comes between me drinking a mnemonic because people did not give me time to properly rest and me just saying to heck with it, they can die.......I'll still have all my potions as I recall out of the quest. And no I don't care about the rest of the party who had no call in the decision, because they are very capable of standing up to the leader and saying chill out while the cleric regens.

A speed zerg run doesn't mean a stupid, mindless run. Some things you still have to allow if you expect to be a competent leader people will listen to.

what on earth does what you say now, have anything to do with what you actually started with? Either recant...or stick to your guns. This wishy washy **** isn't helping you at all.

[Quikster]

Jerk off in the corner and you will die.(unless I know you and you are a dual-boxing piker ;)


What are you trying to say here? I dont jerk off in the corner :eek:

[Pallol_One-Eye]

What are you trying to say here? I dont jerk off in the corner :eek:

Why did you think I was referring to you? muahahahahahah

My pike fu is weak, but I am learing master. :p

[vVAnjilaVv]

I just gotta laugh. You got called out...deal with it...what you wrote now has nothing to do with what you actually were trying to say...



what on earth does what you say now, have anything to do with what you actually started with? Either recant...or stick to your guns. This wishy washy **** isn't helping you at all.

Whatever high and almighty perfection...what it proves IS THAT I AM NOT A DOG AND I DON"T SEE IN BLACK AND WHITE BUT A LARGE PORTION OF THE PIGGISH LIKE POPULATION NEEDS THIS SIMPLICITY OR THEIR BRAINS MELT.

Wishy-washy is far more realistic than rigidity...it's easy to snap a twig in half, it's much harder to kill a serpent that can bend, twist, and contort. Definition does not mean u have to be single track minded....excuse me for not being narrow......I do the best I can putting things together living in a society of ignorant.....cops and robbers, cowboy and indians mentality type morons...which is why my mood sways back and forth so much...get used to it...it's not going to change...ever!


There is a large difference between a hypocrite and someone who actually tries to put it altogther like it should be........it's really not my fault that so many people think they strive in a divided world yet suffer and have problems and scratch their heads wondering why......yeah.....whatever this is a lame thread...goodbye thread and goodbye to the ignorant posters who lack the mentality and live such a shallow way of life......because people like that are truly what bring nothing but misery to this world.

The thing is most of your would think exactly along the same lines if you were not so afraid it would mean losing everything "normal" in your life. So you have gained what you have by ra**ing and murdering everything around you...bravo...and you want sympathy when ur day of reckoning comes because you are a higher form of life......psshhhh....sorry...not going to happen.

[stoopid_cowboy]

What are you trying to say here? I dont jerk off in the corner :eek:

Are you implying that a true piker would jerk off next to Harry so he could look like he was fighting and also getting the mass heals to prolong his jerking off?
Please teach us oh wise piker. :D

yuda

[stoopid_cowboy]

...what it proves IS THAT I AM NOT A DOG.

Screenshot it or it didn't happen! :D

yuda

[PopeJual]

Trolling the trolls you probably helped to create to begin with :p

If you choose to troll, vVAnjilaVv, that's your business. Don't try to blame other people for your habits.

Someone said something in another thread that made a lot of sense. I think you should read to yourself a few times each night before you go to bed:


Yeah, it's easier to point the finger than look at yourself for the problem...and usually the latter is what will yield more satisfying results.

[Cashiry]

I just hit the alter after he dies... don't care if anyone wants out or not.. The quest is meant to be completed... It's not griefing if your following the quest objectives.....

I think Turbine should put in a xp penalty for persons leaving the dungeon... not on re-entry.

Cash out.

[PopeJual]

So you have gained what you have by ra**ing and murdering everything around you...

The double asterisk makes this quote awesome. Rapping and murdering actually does seem a lot more profitable than raping and murdering, too, so it might even make sense in context.

[Quikster]

Whatever high and almighty perfection...what it proves IS THAT I AM NOT A DOG AND I DON"T SEE IN BLACK AND WHITE BUT A LARGE PORTION OF THE PIGGISH LIKE POPULATION NEEDS THIS SIMPLICITY OR THEIR BRAINS MELT.

Wishy-washy is far more realistic than rigidity...it's easy to snap a twig in half, it's much harder to kill a serpent that can bend, twist, and contort. Definition does not mean u have to be single track minded....excuse me for not being narrow......I do the best I can putting things together living in a society of ignorant.....cops and robbers, cowboy and indians mentality type morons...which is why my mood sways back and forth so much...get used to it...it's not going to change...ever!


There is a large difference between a hypocrite and someone who actually tries to put it altogther like it should be........it's really not my fault that so many people think they strive in a divided world yet suffer and have problems and scratch their heads wondering why......yeah.....whatever this is a lame thread...goodbye thread and goodbye to the ignorant posters who lack the mentality and live such a shallow way of life......because people like that are truly what bring nothing but misery to this world.

The thing is most of your would think exactly along the same lines if you were not so afraid it would mean losing everything "normal" in your life. So you have gained what you have by ra**ing and murdering everything around you...bravo...and you want sympathy when ur day of reckoning comes because you are a higher form of life......psshhhh....sorry...not going to happen.

So wait are we role playing now? Ill be the robber so long as Pallol isnt the cop. I prefer to be handcuffed by women.

Relax he was just trying to poke the bee hive that seemed to be winding down. Cheap entertainment and he got what he wanted.



Are you implying that a true piker would jerk off next to Harry so he could look like he was fighting and also getting the mass heals to prolong his jerking off?
Please teach us oh wise piker. :D

yuda

You can even swing without auto attack on, macro a msg in case its not a one rounder (/p lagging) and then your right there swinging when harry drops back down. You dont even have to be at the cpu for any of this. Once you get that down, you can try the same with two pc's :)

[TitoJ]

Whatever high and almighty perfection...what it proves IS THAT I AM NOT A DOG AND I DON"T SEE IN BLACK AND WHITE BUT A LARGE PORTION OF THE PIGGISH LIKE POPULATION NEEDS THIS SIMPLICITY OR THEIR BRAINS MELT.

Wishy-washy is far more realistic than rigidity...it's easy to snap a twig in half, it's much harder to kill a serpent that can bend, twist, and contort. Definition does not mean u have to be single track minded....excuse me for not being narrow......I do the best I can putting things together living in a society of ignorant.....cops and robbers, cowboy and indians mentality type morons...which is why my mood sways back and forth so much...get used to it...it's not going to change...ever!


There is a large difference between a hypocrite and someone who actually tries to put it altogther like it should be........it's really not my fault that so many people think they strive in a divided world yet suffer and have problems and scratch their heads wondering why......yeah.....whatever this is a lame thread...goodbye thread and goodbye to the ignorant posters who lack the mentality and live such a shallow way of life......because people like that are truly what bring nothing but misery to this world.

The thing is most of your would think exactly along the same lines if you were not so afraid it would mean losing everything "normal" in your life. So you have gained what you have by ra**ing and murdering everything around you...bravo...and you want sympathy when ur day of reckoning comes because you are a higher form of life......psshhhh....sorry...not going to happen.

Wall of brainless text...is this a new spell that actually DOES change things you've actually said in the past? lol

Let me surmise this, by quoting myself from earlier...


Clerics are just needy...and need to feel needed. Zerging never makes them feel that needed. It's like when I tell my wife lets just "zerg" it...she's never satisfied.

Pretty much proven lol...sorry, wasn't really meaning you at the time.

[TitoJ]

I'm just saying...maybe you could get a forum administrator to delete your first post, and insert your "this is what I was actually trying to say from the begining, even though it has nothing to do with what I actually said from the beginning" post right where the other one is....

[Pallol_One-Eye]

The best part of this entire recant is that now those of us who have NO ISSUE with what the LFM stated are now raptors and murders.....in a computer game.

Not only that, the great and all knowing God of Karma is going to give us what we deserve......in a computer game.

Its cool to come into the forums and rant and rave about a post, without actually touching on what the POSSIBLE issues are........in a computer game.

Any chance there is a recurring thought passing by here????

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Billy Madison FTW! ;)

[LordPiglet]

The best part of this entire recant is that now those of us who have NO ISSUE with what the LFM stated are now raptors and murders.....in a computer game.

Not only that, the great and all knowing God of Karma is going to give us what we deserve......in a computer game.

Its cool to come into the forums and rant and rave about a post, without actually touching on what the POSSIBLE issues are........in a computer game.

Any chance there is a recurring thought passing by here????

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Billy Madison FTW! ;)

Can I be a Velociraptor? Or do we have to be just namby pampy raptors?

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Can I be a Velociraptor? Or do we have to be just namby pampy raptors?

Settle down piglet or I'm going to get Roid-Rage Pooh over here STAT.

See what being tired and trying to get around the forum filters has made me into here?

/hangs his head in shame and walks away.........

[RoboVanguard]

I didn't read most of the pages... but has anyone mentioned there isn't a pool in part 2? (ok I guess you can count the tree trunks...) and that there are shrines at the end of every part?

[rest]

The best part of this entire recant is that now those of us who have NO ISSUE with what the LFM stated are now raptors and murders.....in a computer game.

Not only that, the great and all knowing God of Karma is going to give us what we deserve......in a computer game.

Its cool to come into the forums and rant and rave about a post, without actually touching on what the POSSIBLE issues are........in a computer game.

Any chance there is a recurring thought passing by here????

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

Billy Madison FTW! ;)


Can I be a Velociraptor? Or do we have to be just namby pampy raptors?

Can I be a rapping raptor???

[TitoJ]

Any chance there is a recurring thought passing by here????



Yes...and that is "If this tasted as good as meatloaf and potatoes...I would never, ever, even bother logging into the actual game!"

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Yes...and that is "If this tasted as good as meatloaf and potatoes...I would never, ever, even bother logging into the actual game!"

At least SOMEBODY gets it....sadly I have to wait to +rep you for it :o

[alcmaeon]

.ee

[Tholar]

Can I be a rapping raptor???

This is what you want to be?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mop1LdaZx7c&feature=related


Edit: Hey Rest. I just saw your location, we are in the same place.

[thisgamesull]

Hey Rest. I just saw your location, we are in the same place.

Carefull Rest, he might be a murdering rapper:eek:

[rest]

This is what you want to be?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mop1LdaZx7c&feature=related


Edit: Hey Rest. I just saw your location, we are in the same place.


F**K YES!!! I aspire to be that raptor some day.



Yes. We are indeed from the same place. :cool:

[rest]

Carefull Rest, he might be a murdering rapper:eek:

He's from Albuquerque. It's like the wild west out here!! :eek::eek::eek:

Well at least in the warzone.

[TipsyDrow]

Would it really kill anyone to just /death {hahaha} out at 5 or 10% and be done with it so everyone can get going on with what they want to do? The street goes both ways.

Hmmm lets see. Harry's at 10%, a few meleers are at 50% health, both healers /death out.
One meleer drops, then another and another and another......Then...WIPE. Now do you REALLY want your healers /deathing out?
Just posing a what if here....could happen.

[Diib]

Hmmm lets see. Harry's at 10%, a few meleers are at 50% health, both healers /death out.
One meleer drops, then another and another and another......Then...WIPE. Now do you REALLY want your healers /deathing out?
Just posing a what if here....could happen.

As I posted several pages back, we had plenty of backup healing.

And as has been mentioned in this thread, people giving instructions to /death out at 10% are usually people that are pretty confident they can take care of that last 10%. IF all the healers /deathed out and then there was a wipe, not like there would be any hard feelings, everyone was following instructions.


There are intangibles to this specific situation. The raid leader was not very diplomatic after the fact, which did nothing to ease bad feelings among players.

[rest]

Hmmm lets see. Harry's at 10%, a few meleers are at 50% health, both healers /death out.
One meleer drops, then another and another and another......Then...WIPE. Now do you REALLY want your healers /deathing out?
Just posing a what if here....could happen.

A few weeks ago we had some lag in pt 4 of the shroud. Both healers got taken out along with half of the other people leaving 5 people alive. One of the people who died, a rogue, released. We asked why and they replied "well both the healers are dead. This run is over." The remaining 5 people took 2 more rounds to kill harry and we went on to complete. What was really amusing is that the rogue tried to come back in, saw they couldn't get past the entrance in part 1 and recalled and dropped group without saying another word. I was on a 20, so I didn't lose xp, but I know there were several TRs hoping for XP in the shroud. Sucked for them, but we all got a good chuckle out of it.

Just because there are no "healers" doesn't mean a run is doomed. Back when the cap was 16 my WF war chanter was part of a 5 man no healer group. Our "healer" was a human bard.

[Aeolwind]

This thread is great.

Someone invoked Godwin's.... Gacy showed up, only thing that is missing is a Barney Fife joke.

Edit: Cause I can't recognize serial killers!

[Tholar]

He's from Albuquerque. It's like the wild west out here!! :eek::eek::eek:

Well at least in the warzone.

I try and avoid the warzone, but the only place I ever lived that the traffic report could include unidentified drunk people walking down the middle of the road.

[rest]

This thread is great.

Someone invoked Godwin's.... Ted Bundy showed up, only thing that is missing is a Barney Fife joke.
Actually, it was John Wayne Gacy, not Ted Bundy.

I try and avoid the warzone, but the only place I ever lived that the traffic report could include unidentified drunk people walking down the middle of the road.

I used to deliver pizza in the war zone years ago. Got WAY better tips from them than I did from all the rich neighborhoods.

Ah yeah good ol New Mexico.

[CaptainCameo]

I don't see why he couldn't just wait a minute for people to recall or something. You should never have to /death out of a quest. If you can recall and save yourself some plat instead of having to purchase consumables, why would you?

[Tholar]

Actually, it was John Wayne Gacy, not Ted Bundy.


I used to deliver pizza in the war zone years ago. Got WAY better tips from them than I did from all the rich neighborhoods.

Ah yeah good ol New Mexico.

Nice catch on the John Wayne Gacy.

I have just seen the warzone driving by, but something is wrong when residential streets are blocked off by barriers.

[Aeolwind]

Actually, it was John Wayne Gacy, not Ted Bundy.


Sweet, I add to the fail! Or would that be win cause I didn't recognize a serial killer?

He was the guy that was selling the clown pictures from prison and people were paying like thousands of dollars for, right?

[Tholar]

Sweet, I add to the fail! Or would that be win cause I didn't recognize a serial killer?

He was the guy that was selling the clown pictures from prison and people were paying like thousands of dollars for, right?

That's him.

[stoopid_cowboy]

This thread is great.

Someone invoked Godwin's.... Gacy showed up, only thing that is missing is a Barney Fife joke.


http://theexpiredmeter.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/barney-fife.jpg

Someone didn't read the LFM?

[Quikster]

I don't see why he couldn't just wait a minute for people to recall or something. You should never have to /death out of a quest. If you can recall and save yourself some plat instead of having to purchase consumables, why would you?

Or you could finish the raid.

[Sirea]

I don't see why he couldn't just wait a minute for people to recall or something. You should never have to /death out of a quest. If you can recall and save yourself some plat instead of having to purchase consumables, why would you?

Different groups have different rules. If they tell you to start recalling when he's at 50%, you should probably listen.

[stoopid_cowboy]

Or you could finish the raid.

That's why I make a point to finish.
Always, every toon. Never farm, better things to do.
Try it, next thing you know, you'll have all your larges!

Farming is for people in Iowa :D

yuda

[Hadrian]

In Soviet Russia, the group description reads you.

[rest]

I have just seen the warzone driving by, but something is wrong when residential streets are blocked off by barriers.

Trumbull neighborhood ftw! Seriously they're all really nice people, as long as they don't shoot you.

[k1ngp1n]

Farming is for people in Iowa :D


Win.

To those who keep saying 'OMG what if the healers /death at 20?' or derivatives thereof: I really don't care that much. :) Two months ago I was in a run in which only 2 people didn't /death... after a bit of laughing I hit the altar.

[Postumus]

Having never run this, can someone put this into a bit of perspective for me (link is fine)?


Why are people saying you 'need to /death out' on this?

thanks

[Quikster]

Having never run this, can someone put this into a bit of perspective for me (link is fine)?


Why are people saying you 'need to /death out' on this?

thanks

some people leave the raid before its complete in order to stay off timer and farm for various ingredients.

[Previsible]

to the raid leader of the compleated shroud run.

not giving clrs time to fill there sp bars after pt 2 and pt 5. then hitting the alter immediately after harry dies saying "you were suppose to /death out before he died". welcome to the black list buddy. i'll be contacting ur guild leader to make ur greifing known. should that not get the job done, ur entire guild will make the list.

* 1:forcing clr to drink sp pots to keep up when there is plenty of time to fill up with pools is unacceptable
2:who would have been healing u at 10% if we'd /death out? hitting the alter without giving time to d door out is
greifing imo.

Next time don't drink pots, /death out and say thanks for the run because they shouldn't expect you to front the bill because they're trying to break a time record.