Stormreach has been overrun by the half orc horde.

[FlyingTurtle]

What a weekend. Every single lowbie PUG is stuffed to the gills with Horc melees.

For some reason, they're all also either all played by skilled players, or Horc really is that overpowered.

If you see one of these beasts beating on a mob, and you're level 6 or under, don't worry about helping. It'll be dead before you even start to get there.

It really feels like post U7 = Pikefest 2010 on my favor runner rogue.

I was going to roll up a melee, but seeing how utterly outclassed I'd be, I'm thinking, the hell with that, I'm sticking with casters. I'll make a healbot build, and put in my LFM: "Horcs only gimps need not apply"

[unbongwah]

Gee, the race with +2 STR base +2 STR enhs +2 Power Rage enhs +3 PA enhs +4 dmg w/2H weapons and up to +8 STR when at low HPs has become the new DPS race of choice?

How shocking.

Clearly the only way to counter-balance this is to create a guild filled solely w/HO wizards & sorcs and HE barbarians. "The League of Self-Gimpage" we'll call ourselves!

[nibel]

Probly most are good players.

Horc is free for VIPs. Most VIPs are old subscribbers. Ergo, most horcs are on hands of old players.

Out of that, a simple +2 str dont give much difference into the low levels.

[Twerpp]

Simple max str 2 handed builds have always been that way at that level range, has nothing to do with the race.

[FlyingTurtle]

Party leader: "I think we need a healer"
Me: "We don't need a healer. We have a half orc."

I was right. Nothing stayed alive long enough to damage any of us.

[andbr22]

Just wait till newbs recognise the power of HOrcs and they start showing their MAD ZKILLZZ during plaing them.

[Tom318]

What a weekend. Every single lowbie PUG is stuffed to the gills with Horc melees.

For some reason, they're all also either all played by skilled players, or Horc really is that overpowered.

If you see one of these beasts beating on a mob, and you're level 6 or under, don't worry about helping. It'll be dead before you even start to get there.

It really feels like post U7 = Pikefest 2010 on my favor runner rogue.

I was going to roll up a melee, but seeing how utterly outclassed I'd be, I'm thinking, the hell with that, I'm sticking with casters. I'll make a healbot build, and put in my LFM: "Horcs only gimps need not apply"

Horc isn't that overpowered, only the ones that are well-played. Because of the new classes, you get to see people from the really good guilds doing what they haven't done for ages (came across AoK and CK in one day in WW !) and I didn't even have to give anyone 20 healing pots :)

Anyway, the game as it is is really skewed towards melee.

[ddobard1]

Yeah, but let's wait to see how they endure end game content with Racial Toughnesss II and Orc Fury!

[stille_nacht]

Mostly skilled players? i beg to differ... the Horc Ranger 2/Monk2 was ripping through irestone inlet on hard, he could have soloed it, i never once saw a mob survive more than one hit... now i am not sure how OP they are at higher end content, but low level? certainly

[Thriand]

Yeah, but let's wait to see how they endure end game content with Racial Toughnesss II and Orc Fury!

What does Orc Fury have to do with enduring end game content?

and your crazy if you think the racial toughness is really going to be the death of all half-orcs, sure humans/half-elves can have 20-40 more hp than half orcs, and dwarves/warforged can have 60 more than half-orcs, but thats hardly a huge loss for the amount of DPS gained, and seeing as almost no one actually takes the toughness 4 enhancement and many barbarians are actually dropping toughness altogehter its really not even that much of a difference in most cases.

[Jakarr]

Mostly skilled players? i beg to differ... the Horc Ranger 2/Monk2 was ripping through irestone inlet on hard, he could have soloed it, i never once saw a mob survive more than one hit... now i am not sure how OP they are at higher end content, but low level? certainly

Yup I can do that on my WF Arcanes with a Carniflex and Buffs....

Again HO may seem OP but its because you are actually playing with the real Vets now and not just a bunch of newbies.

[Jiipster]

Yeah, but let's wait to see how they endure end game content with Racial Toughnesss II and Orc Fury!

What melee has the AP to spend on Racial/Class Toughness 3-4? My WF Fighter only has Racial2/Fighter2, and he sits unbuffed at 646 HP. 746 with Rage and Double Madstone.

[Draccus]

Half Orcs!

Brought to you by the same development team who brought you the Epic Sword of Shadows.

Let other games worry about balance, we've got eSoS wielding HO barbarians!

[Lord-Vega]

Finally, I get to roll up a proper Battle-Rouge! HOrc Rouge with no /ftr FTW! :cool:

Cheers,
bt

[stille_nacht]

Yup I can do that on my WF Arcanes with a Carniflex and Buffs....

Again HO may seem OP but its because you are actually playing with the real Vets now and not just a bunch of newbies.

he wasnt critting, unless he critted on every single mob he swung at...

[FlyingTurtle]

Finally, I get to roll up a proper Battle-Rouge! HOrc Rouge with no /ftr FTW! :cool:

Cheers,
bt

Wrong thread BT! The Half-Orc beauty contest is here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=280768), where you can discuss all your Half-Ord Cosmetics needs!

[Boromirs]

Horcs get less and less powerful toward endgame from what I'm seeing. It's because they are effectively mana sponges and I'm considering changing my gear to healing amp only toward this effect. They suck at survivability...although they still hit hard. I just hope they don't nerf this race or any of the races because A.) That would just totally suck the life out of any chance I'll buy another new race B.) I really don't think it's too overpowered (from a DPS standpoint yes) but from a generalists standpoint no.

[AyumiAmakusa]

Pikers around DDO will love this.

[Tom318]

Mostly skilled players? i beg to differ... the Horc Ranger 2/Monk2 was ripping through irestone inlet on hard, he could have soloed it, i never once saw a mob survive more than one hit... now i am not sure how OP they are at higher end content, but low level? certainly

Meh.. saw one die in WW. It depends I guess.

[grodon9999]

Half Orcs!

Brought to you by the same development team who brought you the Epic Sword of Shadows.

Let other games worry about balance, we've got eSoS wielding HO barbarians!

Thanks for the sig!

THF rules until at least level 6 or maybe even higher. My TRd Elf ranger used a Carnefax until she got Tempest.

[grodon9999]

What melee has the AP to spend on Racial/Class Toughness 3-4? My WF Fighter only has Racial2/Fighter2, and he sits unbuffed at 646 HP. 746 with Rage and Double Madstone.

How many Toughness feats you take?

[patang01]

Horcs are not terribly overpowered. They trade survivability for up front DPS and while they hit hard they're squishier than some other classes. My horc spent most of his time 'held' in the early quests until I got infested armor (but that won't help barbs). It's a trade off. Personally I think the more succesful across the board balanced horcs are going to be rangers and monks. I used a character planner to see what I could do with TRing my current human ranger to a Horc ranger and the difference was the 2 additional points I get for TRing. It boiled down to a trickle more in Strength and SP with the only big difference being the orc rage that kicks in when hurt.

In other words - nothing earth shattering. On the other hand I lost a feat and the con line to beef up my survivability with.

In fact I find the half elf a lot more interesting for a well balanced rogue/bard with a dilettant in one of the wand classes. It would be a perfect candidate for UMD scrolls.

[FlyingTurtle]

Is there a page of Half Orc racial feats somewhere? Wiki only has enhancements.

[TPICKRELL]

At level 4, the HORC has a large advantage because they can keep power attack on more often than others.

I'm betting at high levels they will have more problems because HORCs look to be designed to steal aggro, but not necessarily to handle it. At least a rogue's sneak attacks go down, so they will lose aggro after taking it. A HORC's fury kicks in, so he can suck mana even faster...

That being said, I've started my HORC monk to have a play with the real Touch of Death (one punch kills of red names at level 4).

[hermespan]

What a weekend. Every single lowbie PUG is stuffed to the gills with Horc melees.

For some reason, they're all also either all played by skilled players, or Horc really is that overpowered.

If you see one of these beasts beating on a mob, and you're level 6 or under, don't worry about helping. It'll be dead before you even start to get there.

It really feels like post U7 = Pikefest 2010 on my favor runner rogue.

I was going to roll up a melee, but seeing how utterly outclassed I'd be, I'm thinking, the hell with that, I'm sticking with casters. I'll make a healbot build, and put in my LFM: "Horcs only gimps need not apply"

New race = new content

Most people will immediately roll something with the new race to try it out especially when you consider the increased XP after the update.

There are a lot of builds horc is badly suited for.

All that being said, I can roll a new character using any race that will likely be 2-3 shotting everything. With a bunch of inexperienced people around they'd feel like my character was overpowered, when in reality he is just built well and has the best gear available for his level, so in an average PuG of inexperienced players he'll lead kill count.

It's not the race ;)

As far as being mana sponges, if you beef up healing amp, this won't be the case.

Without fail the big mana sponges are people with lots of HP, bad saves, and no healing amp. The need for heavy fort goes without saying...

You can (and should) fix the mana sponge situation with build choices and gear.

If group heals don't keep you up, and someone needs to constantly spot heal you (in other words, you consistently need a babysitter) all the time, you are doing something wrong with your build, this has been true since day one. Half orc doesn't change this and isn't a passable excuse to need a babysitter. You can't blame the player's racial choice for this deficiency.

People used to say the same thing about warforged. It's simply not true.

[Llewndyn]

My Horc bard does as much if not more damage than any toon did at the same level (currently 8) but I thought it was because of all the experience I had making crappy builds...of which I have a LOT of experience...

I dunno why but when I saw how the Horcs looked I INSTANTLY thought "Bard." I could see no better class for one of those beasts, and I am proud to say he doth kick the anus verily.That being said I notice a lot when in a group with 2 Horcs, even when the other one is a bard too (like in that chronosphere run) it DOES seem a little unfair, but it is the very nature of such a beast. If the Horc were to be trying puzzles or doing much of anything other than prancing merrily about plucking the sweet ambrosial tunes on the 13 course lute, and in between songs bashing people in the face before even the sorc's fireballs could get to them, then that person failed in said endeavor.

*disclaimer - I am not insulting anyone or anyone's builds or anyones anything, please do not be offended. You are uber, you smell nice, you are attractive and I am not. Thank you - /disclaimer*

[Cr0wsbane]

This invasion is no different than the drow invasion way back in the day. Everyone was so hyped up about the drow... then came 32pt build hahah. But, in all, the Horc will eventually die down as well. They all come out about even with all the other races at high end im sure

[k1ngp1n]

They all come out about even with all the other races at high end im sure

This is assuming the other races are even in the first place....

[emttrant]

pots and ho . . .. i need no healer, you can meet me at the treasure chest, enjoy the early leveling piking . . . ..

[Stitch78]

Newb player on Horc in WW: leads in kill count; died 4 times.

Experienced player on Horc in WW: leads in kill count; drank 67 CLW pots.

Vet player on Horc in WW: leads in kill count; by a lot.

Horcs are, in my very limited experience on them, complete beasts. And complete mana sponges. The faster you can figure out aggro management, the happier everyone in your party will be. (But ain't that always the case?)

[Consumer]

Experienced player on Horc in WW: leads in kill count; drank 67 CLW pots.

Vet player on Horc in WW: leads in kill count; by a lot.

Went through hard and it only cost me 2 haste pots and 5 CSW on my TR Fighter.



HO use less sp to keep up than WF as they have higher healing amp and do more damage. They are not mana sponges.

At low levels all it takes is an invulnerability item and you can stand in the middle of a room full of mobs and never be hit by more than 10 damage.

[ReaperAlexEU]

i'm gonna vote on the horc barbs just being well played and built.

a lot of them will be vets with some of the best low level items in game. but even that isnt needed to get a barbarian to kill the mobs in low lvl content before he's even hurt.

when i moved to the US servers i started a 28 pt dorf barbarian. no gear, no twinkage, just a solid build and good gaming knowledge. my barb steam rollered through the low level content in just the same way. most mobs would die before i even got hit. at lvl6 i was taking more damage from frenzy than i was from mobs hitting me. and i hadnt bothered with AC like some players do.

thats not changed much at later levels. sure the game is a lot more challenging now but a good barbarian can still kill a significant monster before he's killed. case in point, the named orthon in rainbow. i was in a bad pug, the door opened and the 2 casters died. the rest ran about like headless chickens and i was left with the named orthon. he got me down to 1/3 HP before i killed him, then i got some healing.

horc barbarians are going to play just the same as barbarians do now, only a little better.

what you're experiencing now is a party with complete overkill DPS

[stille_nacht]

just thought id share that Horc Rogues are either bad, or the person i ran with made a bad horc rogue. We tried to run gwylan's stand, and were severely hampered by the fact that the rogue could not find a single one of the traps...

[Consumer]

just thought id share that Horc Rogues are either bad, or the person i ran with made a bad horc rogue. We tried to run gwylan's stand, and were severely hampered by the fact that the rogue could not find a single one of the traps...

Rogues are DPS first and traps second, if he was leading the kill count like a good Rogue and you hadn't said before entering that he would be doing the traps it's not his problem. If he somehow managed to suck at DPS as well as traps then he was an awful player.

However unless you are running elite you can run through the majority of the traps with no problem.

[elujin]

the horc bonuses to str and the favored style of combat beeing thf makes them shine early on it balances out a bit to higher levels where high str < gear . well geard horcs will still lead the dps charts but it will not be that
bad is in the low levels

you got to handed to turbine its a genious move making it look op on lower levels making al the newbies go oooh i need that :D

[EKKM]

just thought id share that Horc Rogues are either bad, or the person i ran with made a bad horc rogue. We tried to run gwylan's stand, and were severely hampered by the fact that the rogue could not find a single one of the traps...

bad player or undergeared, -2 INT only gives a -1 to traps skills.

[stille_nacht]

Rogues are DPS first and traps second, if he was leading the kill count like a good Rogue and you hadn't said before entering that he would be doing the traps it's not his problem. If he somehow managed to suck at DPS as well as traps then he was an awful player.

However unless you are running elite you can run through the majority of the traps with no problem.

Nah we asked him if he was trapmonkey (we were in on hard and specifically asking for a rogue trapmonkey), and he said yeah, he could get the traps

he was most certainly not leading in dps

Horcs get a hit in WIS and CHA right?

[MogeeMaleeg]

Party leader: "I think we need a healer"
Me: "We don't need a healer. We have a half orc."

I was right. Nothing stayed alive long enough to damage any of us.

That's exactly what me and a couple of buddies thought when we took on Elite WW. Why wait around for a healer, when we will just Blitz up the middle and patch up with an occasional pot. Carnifex in the hands of a decent Horc build is just wicked at lvl 4-6.

[Fomori]

Newb player on Horc in WW: leads in kill count; died 4 times.

Experienced player on Horc in WW: leads in kill count; drank 67 CLW pots.

Vet player on Horc in WW: leads in kill count; by a lot.
My piker toon always leads the kill count in quests that he solos.
My zerger toon always leads the kill count when no one in the quest can catch up to him.

Kill counts in DDO are not all they seem to be. Yes they can give an idea of how capable someone is in combat but since its only the killing blow, not even the majority of damage on a dead mob, its limited in scope. You could have every kill in a quest and not swing a weapon or cast a spell by having the other party members knock a mob down to a couple of hp and have some sort of guard item do that last couple hp to get the kill.

[elujin]

Rogues are DPS first and traps second, if he was leading the kill count like a good Rogue and you hadn't said before entering that he would be doing the traps it's not his problem. If he somehow managed to suck at DPS as well as traps then he was an awful player.

However unless you are running elite you can run through the majority of the traps with no problem.

lol how do you boost your dps by not having a a + item to search and dd or hero pots and fox pots
the guy was a bad player and/or undergeared .

heroisme pots will even boost your dps :D

a rog that can't get trap is a bad rog in my book unless they came prepared and did evrything they could (min of 12 int highst + search and dd items for your level fox cunning pot mebey heroisme (they get a bit expensif for new players)

[Stitch78]

Kill counts in DDO are not all they seem to be. Yes they can give an idea of how capable someone is in combat but since its only the killing blow, not even the majority of damage on a dead mob, its limited in scope. You could have every kill in a quest and not swing a weapon or cast a spell by having the other party members knock a mob down to a couple of hp and have some sort of guard item do that last couple hp to get the kill.

Never intended to say that kill count is the end-all/be-all of figuring out whose DPS is the best. I don't know of anyone who thinks that way. However, high kill count is a strong statistical indicator (positive correlation) to DPS. Your 6 STR halfling healbot with no offensive casting and who hits for 2.5 average damage with an un-plussed club might lead in kill count in VON5, but it statistically improbable.

However, my comment stands as it is a pithy, self-contained and capricious little summary of the point I was making.

[NaturalHazard]

did you look at their gear? twinked gear can make a huge difference at low levels. icyburst holy burst weapons of pure good completely mow through low level mobs.

[BlackSteel]

did you look at their gear? twinked gear can make a huge difference at low levels. icyburst holy burst weapons of pure good completely mow through low level mobs.

the icey burst kits didnt add too much to Two handed weapons, as the random loot starting at lvl 2 pale in comparison to named items. maelstorm at 2, carniflex at 4, SoS at 10, then GS at 8 or 12 if you choose.

kits were nice for weighted weapons, I cant think of much else I wouldve used one on tho (for two handed weapons that is)

[donfilibuster]

Part they are vip yeah, part any good geared melee can do the same at the low levels.

I went to the harbor with my vet status bag toon fighter with a holy weapon and was doing fine with dps.
Also did not need the occasional heal like the horcs in the pug, but on their defense they were doing good with the starting weapon.