A Public Service Announcement

[CaptainCameo]

For EVERY new player making a character, I post this for you.

CONSTITUTION, also know as Con, is THE MOST IMPORTANT STAT IN THE GAME.

Why is that you ask?
Because Con increase the amount of hit points or "HP" that you have. With it, you can take a few hits and not be either dead or on the verge of death.

If you think that you just won't get hit, I have one thing to say to you. Naive! You won't ever not be hit. Every day, thousands of characters get hit and die from it.

There is someone out there that thinks that it's funny to convince people that Con is useless. We must find this person and put a stop to their activities.

I am offering a 20 Million Plat reward for the person who catches this person and brings them to justice.

Thank You.

This has been a public service announcement from Captain Cameo.

[mediocresurgeon]

I am offering a 20 Million Plat reward for the person who catches this person and brings them to justice.

I'll just go ahead and turn myself in.

You can mail the plat to Hydrolics (Sarlona).

[t0r012]

For EVERY new player making a character, I post this for you.

CONSTITUTION, also know as Con, is THE MOST IMPORTANT STAT IN THE GAME.

Why is that you ask?
Because Con increase the amount of hit points or "HP" that you have. With it, you can take a few hits and not be either dead or on the verge of death.

If you think that you just won't get hit, I have one thing to say to you. Naive! You won't ever not be hit. Every day, thousands of characters get hit and die from it.

There is someone out there that thinks that it's funny to convince people that Con is useless. We must find this person and put a stop to their activities.

I am offering a 20 Million Plat reward for the person who catches this person and brings them to justice.

Thank You.

This has been a public service announcement from Captain Cameo.

diff between 12 con and 14 con at level 1 is 1 hp
same starting 12 and 14 con at level 20 is 20 hp

no matter what class or race , its still only 20 hp.

yes Con is important but "is THE MOST IMPORTANT STAT IN THE GAME" is very much opinion an very much incorrect.

I'm not saying 6 or 8 Con is a good idea, but heres a quarter pal , go buy some perspective.
Are all your toons dwarves or WF with 20 starting con?

[FlyingTurtle]

Every day, thousands of characters get hit and die from it.


Omigod, say it aint so.

Please, think of the characters.

[ZeroTakenaka]

Start with 12 or 14 CON at least. THank you.

[CaptainCameo]

I'm not saying 6 or 8 Con is a good idea, but heres a quarter pal , go buy some perspective.


Perspective bought. Thank you. Con is still the most important stat.

EVERY BUILD NEEDS CON

mediocresurgeon, you have not brought yourself to justice so you do not get the reward yet. Put yourself in the oven and broil on mother ****ing hot, then we'll talk. Thanks :P

[t0r012]

Perspective bought. Thank you. Con is still the most important stat.

EVERY BUILD NEEDS CON

mediocresurgeon, you have not brought yourself to justice so you do not get the reward yet. Put yourself in the oven and broil on mother ****ing hot, then we'll talk. Thanks :P

20Hp at end game is nothing.
If con were the "most important stat" everyone would have 20 Con Dwarves and WF but very, very few do.

thus Con is not the most important stat.

important , yes i'll agree with that. Most important , no.
If someone is getting one shotted it isn't just low Con thats the issue a contributer sure but only a part.

[Musouka]

Whatever happened to the sense of challenge while playing a game?

Seriously, do we all have to make the perfect builds for level 20 raiding and epics?

I enjoy this game, because I have to adjust how I play to ensure survival. Not adjust my stats or feats.

[arjiwan]

Whatever happened to the sense of challenge while playing a game?

Seriously, do we all have to make the perfect builds for level 20 raiding and epics?

I enjoy this game, because I have to adjust how I play to ensure survival. Not adjust my stats or feats.

+1 and I agree.

I was with a party running Normal Irestone Inlet at level. I was on my cleric. I didn't even needed to use a shrine, no wands usage. No deaths, did not even took long. Everybody was self-sufficient. But what did the warforged leader said? "We can't do it in hard, this won't work. We need a bigger group or more DPS"

[Aranticus]

diff between 12 con and 14 con at level 1 is 1 hp
same starting 12 and 14 con at level 20 is 20 hp

no matter what class or race , its still only 20 hp.

yes Con is important but "is THE MOST IMPORTANT STAT IN THE GAME" is very much opinion an very much incorrect.

I'm not saying 6 or 8 Con is a good idea, but heres a quarter pal , go buy some perspective.
Are all your toons dwarves or WF with 20 starting con?

20 hp can be a matter of life or death, success or wipe

a 240 hp character is very likely to die from a dbfb from arraetrikos in part 4. a 260 hp character could survive 1 hit. losing enough people in part 4 to death can mean all your efforts from part 1-3 is wasted

a 540 hp tank in tod can die from a failed disintegrate. a 560 tank will survive it. dying causes horoth to gain 25% hp. that could mean anything from 2-5 pots to recover from that death. for many of the less experienced groups, recovery is very difficult

i agree its not the most important stat but its probably the most critical

[Aranticus]

Whatever happened to the sense of challenge while playing a game?

Seriously, do we all have to make the perfect builds for level 20 raiding and epics?

I enjoy this game, because I have to adjust how I play to ensure survival. Not adjust my stats or feats.

sure, which server are you on? i'd roll up a 6 con elf monk in windstance to give you a challenge ;)

[Aranticus]

+1 and I agree.

I was with a party running Normal Irestone Inlet at level. I was on my cleric. I didn't even needed to use a shrine, no wands usage. No deaths, did not even took long. Everybody was self-sufficient. But what did the warforged leader said? "We can't do it in hard, this won't work. We need a bigger group or more DPS"

:)

[arjiwan]

Sorry, I didn't get that red highlight thingy... :D

[AyumiAmakusa]

Sorry, I didn't get that red highlight thingy... :D

I think Aranticus means that comparisons at that low of a level is irrelevant. Do some ToD runs and then compare. :)

[arjiwan]

I think Aranticus means that comparisons at that low of a level is irrelevant. Do some ToD runs and then compare. :)

Oh I'm honestly sorry if this is a high level content thread (Not sarcastic). I was just quoting the guy about having a challenge. Is there no challenge in low level content?

And one more thing, I know this is a min/maxing game, but why do you need to min/max the cultures, like you must be "super uber" or rolling a 6-8 Con toon to give someone a challenge. I'm just saying...

[Baloran]

20 hp can be a matter of life or death, success or wipe

a 240 hp character is very likely to die from a dbfb from arraetrikos in part 4. a 260 hp character could survive 1 hit. losing enough people in part 4 to death can mean all your efforts from part 1-3 is wasted

a 540 hp tank in tod can die from a failed disintegrate. a 560 tank will survive it. dying causes horoth to gain 25% hp. that could mean anything from 2-5 pots to recover from that death. for many of the less experienced groups, recovery is very difficult

i agree its not the most important stat but its probably the most critical

Well I don't agree that Con is themost critical stat. Of course you are right - there are situations where +2 Con (=20 HP at level 20) could have saved you from death. But on the other hand +2 Str (=+1 to hit/damage) could have meant that you killed the enemy before he could hurt you. Or with a +2 Dex (=+1 reflex save) you would never have been hit for the full damage of that dbfb. A +2 to your main caster stat (= +1 DC of your spells) could have meant that your cc/nuke spells could have prevented any damage from the party.

So every stat can be critical for your survival - this is the nature of a dice rolling game, where the difference between fail and success is just +1 on a d20.

That said, I think it is reasonable to spend 6 build points into con because thats a cheap way to get 60 hp at level 20. 4 build points or even 6 build points for another 20 hp cannot be generaly recommended, that depends entirely on the build.

And of course, hitpoints are very important - you should try to have as many hitpoints as reasonable at your level. This includes False Life items, Con Items, Toughness items and so on - starting con is not the only way to get more hitpoints.

Cheers

Baloran

[Vellrad]

20 hp can be a matter of life or death, success or wipe

a 240 hp character is very likely to die from a dbfb from arraetrikos in part 4. a 260 hp character could survive 1 hit. losing enough people in part 4 to death can mean all your efforts from part 1-3 is wasted


I dont think Shroud is good example of endgame.
Plus, I don't think there is any good number of HP that always lest you avoid being one-shotted. For example, roll 1 in epiv VON1 on shaman's disintegrate save throw, and you lose ~400HP. If you're very unlucky and get shotted by 2 disintegrates, and fail both saves, nothing is going to save you.

@ TOPIC

IMO, getting to low con is bad, but I've seen worse things (like wiz with maxed con and 8 int on lv4, saying he won't need reroll, because he'll get int at level ups). Con is not most important stat in game, its, in most of builds second most important , and third most important for all other builds.
About getting HP, equipping GFL items, wearing minos legens, getting +45HP on greensteel is better way than using a lot of attribute points on to much con.

[Martdon]

I agree that +2 STR/DEX/casting stat, can at times change things, but I doubt as many times as having that extra 20 hp. No one is saying use 16 of your starting stat points at creation in CON and neglect everything else, but by saying it is the MOST important, they are not saying it is the ONLY important one. However, which class can use CON as a dump stat? Then look at the other stats. Is there any other stat that cannot be a dump stat for any class? Other than a couple points in STR for most classes (to avoid encumbrance) probably not.

So you could have the best damage output, whether it be spell, sneak or melee, but that doesn't matter if you are dead.

[Baloran]

I agree that +2 STR/DEX/casting stat, can at times change things, but I doubt as many times as having that extra 20 hp. No one is saying use 16 of your starting stat points at creation in CON and neglect everything else, but by saying it is the MOST important, they are not saying it is the ONLY important one. However, which class can use CON as a dump stat? Then look at the other stats. Is there any other stat that cannot be a dump stat for any class? Other than a couple points in STR for most classes (to avoid encumbrance) probably not.


Sorry, CON is almost never the MOST important stat. It might be the second most important stat for some builds and the third most important for many others as Vellrad correctly stated.

I'm not saying its NOT important, just saying its not the MOST important.

Cheers

Baloran

[Jaid314]

I agree that +2 STR/DEX/casting stat, can at times change things, but I doubt as many times as having that extra 20 hp. No one is saying use 16 of your starting stat points at creation in CON and neglect everything else, but by saying it is the MOST important, they are not saying it is the ONLY important one. However, which class can use CON as a dump stat? Then look at the other stats. Is there any other stat that cannot be a dump stat for any class? Other than a couple points in STR for most classes (to avoid encumbrance) probably not.

So you could have the best damage output, whether it be spell, sneak or melee, but that doesn't matter if you are dead.

actually, you can even dump strength. you have to be choosy about what you carry, but i even have a (base) 6 strength halfling rogue who stays well under light load capacity by the simple use of +6 strength gloves, no rare gear to boost strength or anything. he hauls around usually 2-3 heavy repeaters at any given time plus ~3,000 bolts, several stacks of potions, several stacks of scrolls, and wears leather armor (not cloth, which would be lighter). i can even loot a couple of suits of full plate before i start worrying about medium load. and up until recently, a few handheld weapons for the rare situations where it was a better idea than ranged (usually involving portal beating with a holy GCB and a vicious GCB weapon). i still carry a finesse light mace of GCB for smite construct and (for the time being) wrack construct though. plus of course there's a bunch of random junk in there (collectables in bags, ingredients in bags, etc).

so really, you can definitely dump strength. oh, there'll be times when it sucks, for sure (i really hated ray of enfeeblement at low levels) but it's not impossible.

[Ganolyn]

Whatever happened to the sense of challenge while playing a game?

Seriously, do we all have to make the perfect builds for level 20 raiding and epics?



Well, they've made it so you can't design a character with any legs, but it doesn't really matter because the place is just drowning with crutches.

[Martdon]

actually, you can even dump strength. you have to be choosy about what you carry, but i even have a (base) 6 strength halfling rogue who stays well under light load capacity by the simple use of +6 strength gloves, no rare gear to boost strength or anything. he hauls around usually 2-3 heavy repeaters at any given time plus ~3,000 bolts, several stacks of potions, several stacks of scrolls, and wears leather armor (not cloth, which would be lighter). i can even loot a couple of suits of full plate before i start worrying about medium load. and up until recently, a few handheld weapons for the rare situations where it was a better idea than ranged (usually involving portal beating with a holy GCB and a vicious GCB weapon). i still carry a finesse light mace of GCB for smite construct and (for the time being) wrack construct though. plus of course there's a bunch of random junk in there (collectables in bags, ingredients in bags, etc).

so really, you can definitely dump strength. oh, there'll be times when it sucks, for sure (i really hated ray of enfeeblement at low levels) but it's not impossible.

I agree with you, I more meant to point out that the only other stat you may want on every class, is STR. Mostly for enfeeblement. (DEX monks, low level, Hobogoblin Cleric. Ugh)

[Aranticus]

I dont think Shroud is good example of endgame.
Plus, I don't think there is any good number of HP that always lest you avoid being one-shotted. For example, roll 1 in epiv VON1 on shaman's disintegrate save throw, and you lose ~400HP. If you're very unlucky and get shotted by 2 disintegrates, and fail both saves, nothing is going to save you.

no its not endgame but thats where a base number of hp becomes really important. its also funny you skipped over my tod example

there are a lot of other examples, evon6 djinni chain lightning, edq spinning blades, etc


@ TOPIC

IMO, getting to low con is bad, but I've seen worse things (like wiz with maxed con and 8 int on lv4, saying he won't need reroll, because he'll get int at level ups). Con is not most important stat in game, its, in most of builds second most important , and third most important for all other builds.
About getting HP, equipping GFL items, wearing minos legens, getting +45HP on greensteel is better way than using a lot of attribute points on to much con.

but at the very least, you still want your con to start at 12 or 14 depending on race

[CaptainCameo]

Start with 12 or 14 CON at least. THank you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



This is what I meant. You absolutely need at least 10 to 14 CON to survive. People don't want to pick your sorry ass off the ground after you get hit by a kobold. If you have 8 Con, you're actually LOSING hp. Because having an 8 mean you get -1 to your hp every time you level up. You might think "Oh 1 hp doesn't make that much of a difference."

Well guess what? It's going to. If you don't have a CON item, and you don't have any natural CON at all, you might as well /death yourself now.

Let's do the calculations now to show you the difference.


First a fighter with 14 CON and a +6 CON item at level 20

at lvl 1 roll 1d10 for hp

let's for argument's sake say every roll is an 10. A statistical anomaly.

That would be 10+2 =12 hp to start off. That's without the heroic durability feat that adds 20 or so hp at lvl 1

10+2=12
12x20= 240 hp

Now to add the +6 CON item which will give an extra +3 to CON

3x20=60
60+240= 300hp

300 Hp without any feats or buffs. just the +6 Con item and 14 base.



Now let's roll the no CON dude. Same level and class with 10 each time.

10-1=9 hp.

Ok, not much difference at the first level. Let's skip ahead to level 20

10-1=9
9x20= 180

Oh wow. Isn't that horrible? I guess one point does make a difference huh?

Even with the +6 Con item, low CON buddy would still only get about as much as the other one without his CON item.

On DDO, the enemies can do over 30 damage a hit and even more on epic. 300 hp is too low for an epic quest in the first place. In order to get enough hp to survive in an epic quest, you need to get hp items, feats and enhancements. Having 8 CON means that you probably won't even be able to get 350 hp without difficulty.

This is why people must stop making characters with only 8 CON. Even at lower levels, you can feel the difference. And your party members can also feel it, right in the inventory slot your soulstone takes up.

[Musouka]

sure, which server are you on? i'd roll up a 6 con elf monk in windstance to give you a challenge ;)

+1 I'll agree with that, but I'd probably get annoyed with a 6 con toon before getting 8 levels into the game. However, I'm sure with a lot of adjustment, and dependency on a 24-hour 7 day a week cleric or hireling, it may be done. Though it probably will ensure you lots of blacklisting. A 6 con would probably not be allowed the opportunity to farm for gear that would boost up CON toward endgame, like GS HP, or even TOD sets.

I guess the best advice, don't leave your con low without reason.

[Battlehawke]

I've been trying to reverse the reputation of rogues the last year and building 500+ Hp Rogues with lots of DPS, and low and behold I'm in a shroud run the other day with a rogue that dies in part ONE....and then very often throughout the other parts.... Finally someone said "dude.. how many HP do you have" He said around 180ish!!!! He was level 20!!! OMG!!! How do you not get frustrated with that? HP are very important ladies and gents...

Battlehawke