Palemaster is a necromancer wannabe?

[pjohnakos1]

Want the devs to change our playstyle depending on the path we choose?
Do they want arcanes just to oto,hold and fw?
Well i made a palemaster in ddo... and im a necromancer wannabe seems the developers dont want to make us necromancers though....
the spells are same to all paths... the new spells they gave are big fail that no1 will ever use in endgame since they dont scale well....
i really hope we will soon see new spells . Spells that we will choose even if we will loose spots for other spells that today are must... just because these spells will give us new cc , new dps for endgame situations.
Give us the oportunity to play as necromancers .....
Give us something to buff raid and other players with our necromancy....

necromancer isnt a regular wizard....
we dont want to be a sorc... we dont want to be another wf wiz .....
Let us make our own playstyle.... give us spells of necromancy we can use....

use d&d to guide u http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Necromancer_%283.5e_Class%29

[pjohnakos1]

i will agree but IN DDO
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since pale master requires greater necromancy feat and gives a stackable +2 to necromancy spells
its only implamentation is multiple undead summons and the only negative energy spells are necromancy (that exist in DDO)

i will call pale master.... a necromancer ....

and because of Pale master i wouldn't expect True Necromancer anytime soon (or at all)

like it or not pale master is the necromancer prestige.

[gurgar78]

Palemaster is Palemaster.

It's a prestige class from the published 3.5e rules. The necromancer you linked is from a "Homebrew" source, meaning it's not an official D&D class, but one that was made up by a player.

[AZgreentea]

The way I see it, "necromancer" is a general term for a type of spellcaster or priest. There are many types of necromancers in DDO and D&D. Palemaster is the version players get to play.

You could say the Kobold Shamans are necromancers, since they can be seen raising zombies in DDO. A Lych is a necromancer, and many spellcasting undeads (like vampires) also act like necromancers.

[pjohnakos1]

so u tell me in ddo we will see true necromancer?
seems u didnt get my point.....
im trying to give some ideas if devs ever will read or planing to give necromancer in this game...
and since the only class and path in ddo leading to necromancer is palemaster
lets just try to make him be a necromancer and not a wiz that will just hold , dance and fw.....

i would love to see a true necromancer in this game but seems that wiz palemaster is the path for it in ddo
(and i already answered in the second post for it)

anyway let me be a dreamer and ask for changes.... maybe some1 will hear for them.....

[gurgar78]

so u tell me in ddo we will see true necromancer?

"Necromancer" is a class that doesn't exist as far as the actual published D&D 3.5e rules are concerned.

[gurgar78]

so u tell me in ddo we will see true necromancer?
seems u didnt get my point.....
im trying to give some ideas if devs ever will read or planing to give necromancer in this game...
and since the only class and path in ddo leading to necromancer is palemaster
lets just try to make him be a necromancer and not a wiz that will just hold , dance and fw.....

i would love to see a true necromancer in this game but seems that wiz palemaster is the path for it in ddo
(and i already answered in the second post for it)

anyway let me be a dreamer and ask for changes.... maybe some1 will hear for them.....

I don't understand. You tell them to let D&D be their guide and then ask for changes which are completely unfounded in the D&D ruleset.

Palemaster is the D&D arcane prestige class that focuses on the Necromancy spell school. They did as close a translation as possible from the core material to the DDO universe.

Edit: Apologies.. after doing some research on the interwebs, there is indeed a "True Necromancer" prestige class that requires both Arcane and Divine spellcasting and a "Dread Necromancer" prestige class.

[pjohnakos1]

ok seems u are wright ......
i will stick to the fw , hold , dance maybe some waves and symbol....
something all the wiz in this game can do....
same spells for all
same playstyle for all
this game has wizards and sorcerers and druids will come soon .... we can w8 for a necromancer some day to come.... and we can stay playing our arcanes(wiz/sorc) same way we play them now .... doing all same spells ....
or
we can ask for debuffs new curses ... buffs for raid and grps.... summons ... dps spells ....
but
palemaster is another wizard we will stay all same wizards
and better one go all wf wizards easy way.... lets all do what the croud do ... lets all be same.....

[Chaosprism]

A necromancer, is simply a wizard that prefers necromancy spells.



in update 7 you can make a prestige archmage -> necromancy. Which would be the closest thing to your idea of one.


Palemasters, become partly undead and approach necromancy from the "inside".

[gurgar78]

ok seems u are wright ......
i will stick to the fw , hold , dance maybe some waves and symbol....
something all the wiz in this game can do....
same spells for all
same playstyle for all
this game has wizards and sorcerers and druids will come soon .... we can w8 for a necromancer some day to come.... and we can stay playing our arcanes(wiz/sorc) same way we play them now .... doing all same spells ....
or
we can ask for debuffs new curses ... buffs for raid and grps.... summons ... dps spells ....
but
palemaster is another wizard we will stay all same wizards
and better one go all wf wizards easy way.... lets all do what the croud do ... lets all be same.....

Debuffs, I can understand, but I don't think you really understand the focus of the Necromancy school if you're asking for party/raid buffs.

[pjohnakos1]

im not planing to argue with u m8.....
at least u agree with the debuffs thats something... and not with the negative damge spells but thats ok....
when i said buff was thinking of something that will benefit the raid/grp not the way a cleric or bard gives buffs
but as a raid/grp boost ..... either on the dps or on something else....
u can boost some1ns dps by debuffing anyway...

[pjohnakos1]

A necromancer, is simply a wizard that prefers necromancy spells.



in update 7 you can make a prestige archmage -> necromancy. Which would be the closest thing to your idea of one.

".



archamge isnt my idea of a necromancer at all....
just having a spell focus on necromancy or 2 will never make him necromancer....
at least palemaster can summon undead(big fail minions) ..... not the way he should but he does a part of things necromancers should do.....

[Entelech]

"Necromancer" is a class that doesn't exist as far as the actual published D&D 3.5e rules are concerned.


Welll...there is a True Necromancer PrC in 3.5. It's a weird sort of Mystic Theurge-y thing requiring Cleric levels as well as Wiz / Sorc levels to enter. And it isn't all that good.

It wouldn't translate well into DDO. PrE's that require multiclassing are not gonna happen in the forseeable future.

[Entelech]

By the way...if you look at the PnP version of Pale Master, it's NOT a caster build, it's a battlemage build. Same with Acolyte of the Skin, which is on the list for Sorcerer PrE's that Eladrin posted, back in the mists of time.

If you look at DDO's Pale Master, it also offers some significant benefits in a battlemage scenario.

[pjohnakos1]

By the way...if you look at the PnP version of Pale Master, it's NOT a caster build, it's a battlemage build. Same with Acolyte of the Skin, which is on the list for Sorcerer PrE's that Eladrin posted, back in the mists of time.

If you look at DDO's Pale Master, it also offers some significant benefits in a battlemage scenario.

============================

There are two approaches to the necromancer as far as I am concerned. They are:

I: Wizard who specializes in necromancy. He casts some level-draining and ability-draining spells, but is mostly like any other wizard.
- Penalties: Must (should!)ban two schools. Cannot casts spells of these schools. Higher DC spellcraft vs them, so on. Schools banned cannot be Divination or Universal.


II: Cleric who's evil and shows it. He can actually animate the dead at level 5 (the spell's description is good here). Later, he gains the ability to summon some nastier undead. When stumbling upon undead, he can rebuke or dominate them - gain control of them. He can heal his undead creatures with the Inflict spell, and power them with "Bolster undead" - expends turn attempt - and Desecrate.
- Note: as mentioned in the Animate Dead descriptor, a Cleric can only have control of Undead with total HD = his cleric levels * 4.

The Wizard is most likely a more viable choice for a Lich. Also, there's a True Necromancer PrC or something around, which turns him into something a bit more...necromancish.
============================
True Necromancer is a pretty good prestige class, but it takes some work to get up to, and causes you to be a little on the weak side spell-wise for your first 8 levels or so, being that you have to split your levels equally between Cleric and Wizard. So if you are playing a very combat-oriented or dungeon crawly campaign, that might be something to take note.

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[gurgar78]

True Necromancer is a pretty good prestige class, but it takes some work to get up to, and causes you to be a little on the weak side spell-wise for your first 8 levels or so, being that you have to split your levels equally between Cleric and Wizard. So if you are playing a very combat-oriented or dungeon crawly campaign, that might be something to take note.

Everything I read about it during my brief search into necromancers suggested that it was one of the worst classes you could possibly take, as far as character power is concerned. The general concensus was that it does make a good bad guy for your campaign because even if he's 10 levels above your PCs, he doesn't present an insurmountable threat.

[hermespan]

archamge isnt my idea of a necromancer at all....
just having a spell focus on necromancy or 2 will never make him necromancer....
at least palemaster can summon undead(big fail minions) ..... not the way he should but he does a part of things necromancers should do.....

A necromancer is a wizard that specializes in spells from the necromancy school. He boosts dc for necro spells by wearing items that boost necro dc and takes enhancements that boost necro spells and give abilities to manipulate and raise undead, as well as taking necro specialization feats.

Pale master is not just a spell focus on necromancy or 2. It's a state of mind, playstyle and utter specialization in necromancy. Due to epic ward, it's just not all that useful for end game. Ditto for PvP. Necro spells are effectively neutered by deathblock, unless the pvper is seriously undergeared and without deathblock.

Rather than saying necro is weak, just be correct and say casters are weak, at least come end game and pvp. As a caster all you can really do is give party buffs, crowd control and the occasional firewall (like in epic red fens killing ice statues) in epic content. In the end game/pvp nerf race, casters got the short end of the stick. At least it's easy to get to level 20 as an arcane caster and they are definitely important in epics so the class isn't a complete loss.

Ironically in PnP they are _supposed_ to be overpowered. Casters are the most powerful characters in PnP end game. This works in PnP because people who are friends get together and cooperatively do quests together. No one cares about kill counts, they don't fight each other, and everyone in PnP is a role player. People want to be like someone in their favorite stories or books, so they build a D&D character as close to that spec as possible. No one really cares who is more powerful. The pick feats based on what they think is cool, instead of avoiding "gimp" feats. Build science, at least back when I played, didn't exist. No one cared what their DPS was. DPS wasn't even an acronym.

If Turbine did this, there'd be 4 classes non-role players played, casters (divine and arcane).

They'd own everything.

If they weren't nerfed by bosses and epic you could solo epics and waltz through any content with no risk. You pretty much can with a lot of content from level 7 to level 17ish anyway as a caster, outside of raids and quests that require more than 2 people for doing things like standing on buttons or hitting a bunch of switches at the same time.

I mean you have all these great spells to kill stuff. By end game everything is either immune to them or the saves are so high that even maxed out DC is still ineffective. Wizard/Sorc is effectively gutted.

I'm not complaining, because it's nice to have challenging content in a video game and character diversity, but if you are looking for the kind of caster power you have in PnP D&D, you won't find it here, necro or otherwise. If you did, ddo would end up like SWG version 1 with the jedis: 95% of everyone playing some flavor of caster.

It has to be this way for the game to be fun for other classes and give non-rpers a reason to play something other than caster. Unfortunately you have to have some semblance of balance among the classes or people complain endlessly on the forums about it. Right now balance is tipped slightly in favor of melee in end game. IMHO The other unfortunate thing is that in a video game/mmo true balance is basically unachievable so there's always a group of people that are unhappy.

I play a capped wizard, have 2 melee(19 and capped), and a ranged character I play regularly. I wish casters were more powerful but it'd be a double edged sword for Turbine to up the ante on them. There'd be an all out forum explosion, people quitting etc. and eventually melee would be back on top. I've seen it in every mmo I've played, the dreaded nerf cycle. It never ends. Like I said, true balance that everyone perceives as "truly balanced" is impossible. I've been playing mmos (7 of them) since 2003, and I've never seen it.

The minute everyone thinks classes are balanced, some player figures out some combination of skills and abilities that works really well and the nerf bat comes out.

[Yaga_Nub]

...
Palemasters, become partly undead and approach necromancy from the "inside".

So they are necrophiliacs?

[Zachski]

Ironically in PnP they are _supposed_ to be overpowered. Casters are the most powerful characters in PnP end game. This works in PnP because people who are friends get together and cooperatively do quests together. No one cares about kill counts, they don't fight each other, and everyone in PnP is a role player. People want to be like someone in their favorite stories or books, so they build a D&D character as close to that spec as possible. No one really cares who is more powerful. The pick feats based on what they think is cool, instead of avoiding "gimp" feats. Build science, at least back when I played, didn't exist. No one cared what their DPS was. DPS wasn't even an acronym.


The exception would be the munchkins, of course.

Ironic that DDO is populated mostly by munchkins. Unfortunately, it's rubbed off on me, too.

[Strype.McClaine]

So they are necrophiliacs?

Only if they necrotic touch themselves at night.

[Holymosher]

Hey anyone explain this necromancer and palemaster stuff I don't get it ??!

[frznvimes]

Hey anyone explain this necromancer and palemaster stuff I don't get it ??!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancer
http://ddowiki.com/page/Pale_Master_enhancements
debate: is the pale master a kind of necromancer, or something different that shares certain similarities? (also relevant: necromancy spell line, pen-and-paper classes, preservation of precious bodily fluids)

[Shanadeus]

I'd love it if Palemasters got permanent physical changes when taking their third and final tier of the PrE. Maybe a skeleton arm like they had in NWN.