Avoiding damage .

[unbalanc3]

Hey people whats up ! :)

I have a rogue player ,so avoiding damage is my primary goal in combat . I have a question about avoiding damage :

Its obvious that the more DEX you character has the more damage it can avoid naturally , but , is it the only way to avoid it ? . I've been trying a move tactic on all battles , that consists in moving my character around the enemy ( or so ) while trying to hit him . Some times i get damage , sometimes i dont , but , is this really effective ? Or is it only the DEX working to avoid damage ?

Summary : Does , moving around constantly while fighting , avoid damage ? ( by avoiding getting hit ) Or this is only a DEX matter , and its the same as fighting still ?

[CaptainCameo]

Yes, moving behind enemies works. It's the tactic I use when I play on my ranger and rogue. It's surprising how effective and simple it is, yet most players seem to not to do it.

The average pug group will consist of 4 people who just run up to the enemies and try to bash them in the face, one cleric or fvs frantically trying to heal them, and one person that knows enough not to stand in the way of the blades. That person is usually me.

[katana_one]

Not being there when the attack comes is a great way to avoid damage if your twitch skills are up to par. Watch the animations, and when they wind up for a swing, tumble out of range. Personally, I don't have the reflexes any more to make that work reliably.

A high Dexterity will figure into your Armor Class, which will also make you harder to hit.

Also, it can make a big difference if you're in a group or if you're solo. In a group, you can use your Diplomacy skill to shed aggro, and the monsters will go and bother someone else.

At higher levels, AC becomes less and less relevant (unless you build specifically for AC) and Fortification becomes more important for preventing critical hits.

Hope that helps.

[Samadhi]

Moving works great to avoid damage. Specific monsters have specific attack patterns that will help with learning differing ways to move and avoid as well.

[Alternative]

Crowd Control is the way to avoid damage, typically casters' job but melees with paralyzers and stuns/trips work as well.

[katana_one]

I've been trying a move tactic on all battles , that consists in moving my character around the enemy ( or so ) while trying to hit him . Some times i get damage , sometimes i dont , but , is this really effective ?

By the way, this is how I play all of my melee characters. Everyone can benefit from thinking tactically to avoid damage.

When dealing with a bunch of melee threats, for instance, I will try to maneuver so that only one can reach me at a time and I avoid letting them swarm me and get flanking bonuses (when solo anyways, team play sometimes requires that I hold still and play meat shield).

This goes for rogues, rangers, fighters, anyone really.

[Calebro]

Your #1 plan of attack is to buddy up with a big burly meat shield. Stay right behind him at all times, so the first thing the mobs see is him.
Wait until he chooses his target before attacking, then get behind whatever he's hitting and kill it.
He'll hate you for stealing all of "his" kills, but the healers will absolutely LOVE the squishy little rogue that dominates the kill count while hardly ever needing any healing.

Let the fighters, barbs and paladins charge into the rooms. That's what they're there for.
You take advantage of that and do what you do best.

[unbalanc3]

yeah thats what i though , because moving really seems to avoid A LOT of damage , and gives some bonus attack damage once in a while ( now i understand its because of the back hit or flank hit , while they stand still and try to attack ) .

Tried to make a hard quest using this moving tactic , and the same quest but not moving . The results are unbelievably different .
-With the moving thing , i could do the hole quest and still have half my hp up ! ( not using the shrine )
-Without the moving , in the same quest , i never even pasted half the quest xD died way before , from shielding a lot of hits.

Still you are right , many players dont seem to get this tactic ... only interested in getting some heavy armor so it hurts less when hit . ( at least in the first two inicial towns ... maybe after that players are more skilled and do that all the time lol , only been playing with "noobs" yet )

And yes , studying the attack patterns of some monsters is really helpfull , especially for those that have a slow attack ... as it gives plenty of time to flank and back hit them , making them an easy target . Maybe with the twitch it becomes more effective , but i personally dont use it much , simples flank moves and , in/out moves , do the work for me , making a Z moving pattern .

Thanks guys , most helpful :)

[Calebro]

Well, moving can certainly avoid a bunch of damage, but it also lowers your damage output. While moving, you attack slower and you have a -4 to hit.
This is why I suggest waiting. Don't just charge into battle. Let someone else do that, and then follow them, and then maneuver behind whatever they're trying to kill.
This will give them initial aggro from being the first in there, and it will give them a swing or two to establish aggro completely.
Once this happens, but the time that you do enough sneak attack damage to draw aggro from them, the mob is dead.
ie: You should never have aggro at all, and when you do it's usually due to a mistake you made. If you never have aggro, you rarely take damage.
Patience is a rogue's best friend.


only interested in getting some heavy armor so it hurts less when hit . ( at least in the first two inicial towns ... maybe after that players are more skilled and do that all the time lol , only been playing with "noobs" yet )

Heavier armor doesn't reduce damage in DDO like in many other MMOs. Armor only determines how easy or hard it is for a mob to hit you. Once that hit is scored, armor doesn't help at all (with the exception of some special armor qualities such as Invulnerability).

My rogues don't wear armor.
Ever.
There's no need. If you don't have aggro, you don't need armor.
A big bonus to this is that swapping from one set of robes (or an outfit) is instantaneous, while changing armor takes time. So I can change which effects my "armor" has in a moment, while armored toons cannot.
Beholder just showed up? Deathblock is on.
Need to sneak around? Improved Silence is on.
Enemy casters start tossing scorching rays? Fire resistance is on.
Fire elementals spawn? Ice guard is on.

You get the idea.

[Aranticus]

Yes, moving behind enemies works. It's the tactic I use when I play on my ranger and rogue. It's surprising how effective and simple it is, yet most players seem to not to do it.

The average pug group will consist of 4 people who just run up to the enemies and try to bash them in the face, one cleric or fvs frantically trying to heal them, and one person that knows enough not to stand in the way of the blades. That person is usually me.

you do not even need to be behind the mob to avoid damage. if you are well positioned enough, standing right behind the tank while still within melee reach will help avoiding damage too, this works until u meet mobs with a cleave attack

[Aranticus]

Your #1 plan of attack is to buddy up with a big burly meat shield. Stay right behind him at all times, so the first thing the mobs see is him.
Wait until he chooses his target before attacking, then get behind whatever he's hitting and kill it.
He'll hate you for stealing all of "his" kills, but the healers will absolutely LOVE the squishy little rogue that dominates the kill count while hardly ever needing any healing.

Let the fighters, barbs and paladins charge into the rooms. That's what they're there for.
You take advantage of that and do what you do best.

i have to add on to this. besides not being the first to be "seen", you also do not want to be the first to hit. way too often, ranger/rogue deaths are due to ranging mobs. when you hit a mob with a range weapon, it doesnt come alone. if it has friends, the whole group will home in on you, even if that meat shield is in front of you, they will ignore them for 1-2 seconds even if they are hit by someone else

for this reason, when i play AOE casters, i zerg up ahead to grab all agro than let the pew pew pew steal them

[unbalanc3]

This is why I suggest waiting. Don't just charge into battle. Let someone else do that, and then follow them, and then maneuver behind whatever they're trying to kill.


Im talking, mostly , about solo play . With a team , tactics are quite obvious for a rogue player : let the rest take the damage ! and sneak to give the death blow, or flank damage.

My inicial question was for solo play only . But got the idea :)

Even so , my primary question was : for solo play , is it better to make moving battle or still battle ? ( after using all those sneak skills ) . And the way i see it , even if we loose accuracy and damage points while moving , its better than to stand still .

You can still inflict some serious damage , while saving HP , moving . While standing still , youll inflict much more damage in total , but waste a LOT of HP . The relation between damage/hp , in the moving tactic is superior than the stand still tactic i think . So for solo play it ends up being better to move .

[Aranticus]

Im talking, mostly , about solo play . With a team , tactics are quite obvious for a rogue player : let the rest take the damage ! and sneak to give the death blow, or flank damage.

My inicial question was for solo play only . But got the idea :)

Even so , my primary question was : for solo play , is it better to make moving battle or still battle ? ( after using all those sneak skills ) . And the way i see it , even if we loose accuracy and damage points while moving , its better than to stand still .

You can still inflict some serious damage , while saving HP , moving . While standing still , youll inflict much more damage in total , but waste a LOT of HP . The relation between damage/hp , in the moving tactic is superior than the stand still tactic i think . So for solo play it ends up being better to move .

solo play depends on the quest. the most important thing about solo play, unless you have a high ac is the number of mobs you are fighting. it is possible to pull mobs off 1 or 2 at a time off a group by moving just within its visual range (but not for the rest). it will come for you alone if you are good enough. when its nearer, but far enough from the rest of its friends, open up with a volley of ranged attacks. at it gets nearer, hit it once, move back, wait for its attack sequence to end, move back up and attack. repeat until its dead. you can try this with elementals first since they are slower and hence easier for you to practice on. the flip side is the -4 attack penalty which is HUGE at the lower levels

now for most of the quests, i recommend equipping MS and hide gear and sneaking past as much of the fights as possible. you can also drag mobs back into traps for them to die inside. one of the best example of this is gwylans

[unbalanc3]

yeah thats about it for a rogue , mobs are a bad idea . thanks for the help :)

[JollySwagMan]

Aggro management/situational awareness can go a long way in avoiding damage. DDO is an action game :)

In addition to out-maneuvering monsters/attacks, tactics like 'body pulling' and using chokepoints are available to any player. Also, Trip! Even if you have a shoddy DC for your Trip, it's a free Feat and is worth spamming on a majority of content.

In addition to the sight-pulling method Aranticus mentioned, you can also throw something near an enemy to trigger their interest without them actually spotting you - I suggest turning off 'Auto-Target' in the Options menu to make full use of this. There's also Bluff, which can be used to draw a specific monster - however failing a bluff check makes all subsequent bluffs against that enemy more difficult.

When solo-ing or grouping with tactically minded players, the Sap feat can be used very effectively in combination with pulling methods, as well as to keep an orange-named critter out of action while you dispatch their minions. Sap has no save - however any damage to the Sapped enemy will wake them up, so it's usually unviable with PUGs.