minimum Attack bonus for EPIC stuff

[Maxou69]

Hi, I just wonder whats the magic number to hit epic bosses. At 40 buffed no bard in the party I wasnt able to hit Malecia in big top. (no problem with trash mob tho) So I had to shut down my WF power attack.

tx

[Srozbun]

I strive for high forties. 46+ on my monk.

[Maxou69]

I guess it's somewhere between 41 and 47 cause with power attack off I was at 47 and hitting her every swing. Or maybe I should simply use a destruction -8 weapon.

[Nyvn]

Keep in mind destruction and improved destruction stack.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

The only mob I've paid much attention to is the big red named mud elemental in one of Red Fens quests and he has an AC of 58.

[gott_ist_tot]

Keep in mind destruction and improved destruction stack.

Yeah, in epic fights mobs actually have so many HP that abilities like improved destruction or stun are very valuable. Even if you have to switch weapons every once in a while, -8 AC is really something, and upping it to -12 is overkill. 1 minute, no saving throw... tasty.

Don't even get me started on stun, it's beyond awesome (in spite of not applying to bosses).

[Sweyn]

60+

[sirgog]

The important epic ACs:

Malicia, Exhausted: 68
Lailat, Exhausted: 61 (64 without)
Gnoll Packmaster (Wiz-King): High 60s

They sound nasty? Prior to the first wave of epic nerfs that happened (think it was in Update 3), Raiyum had an AC of 73 or 74.


As for what to shoot for - 50 selfbuffed with Power Attack on is a good figure for non-flanking attacks.

[krud]

The important epic ACs:

Malicia, Exhausted: 68
Lailat, Exhausted: 61 (64 without)
Gnoll Packmaster (Wiz-King): High 60s

They sound nasty? Prior to the first wave of epic nerfs that happened (think it was in Update 3), Raiyum had an AC of 73 or 74.


As for what to shoot for - 50 selfbuffed with Power Attack on is a good figure for non-flanking attacks.
That's what I expected. I tried soling the first room of wizking with my ftr-rog mutt. I was easily in the low to mid 40s self buffed, and I had a real hard time with those packmasters. They must have had ~70 AC. Of course that was a while ago, so i'm not sure if they were nerfed since then. The first named minotaur in von1 was also right up there too. Most other mobs were no trouble, especially when destructed/imp destructed. I also had radiance to ensure sneak attack bonus to-hit. If a mob was particularly tough i'd first bluff and then hit smite for the sneak and cha bonus to land both destruction (on my dt armor) and improved destruction, but even then that didn't seem to be enough on the packmasters and that minotaur. I'd shoot for at least +50 self-buffed

[Natashaelle]

The important epic ACs:

Malicia, Exhausted: 68
Lailat, Exhausted: 61 (64 without)
Gnoll Packmaster (Wiz-King): High 60s

They sound nasty? Prior to the first wave of epic nerfs that happened (think it was in Update 3), Raiyum had an AC of 73 or 74.

OMG -- hadn't you heard ?

AC is useless in the end game !!! ;) :D

[Maxou69]

some peoples doesnt read well before answering

this post is not about AC, it's about atack bonus and if you can sustain 60 I want to see the numbers

[Sweyn]

Take my Exploiter for example

20 BaB
17 STR (44 STR)
5 Weapons
7 Bard
4 Epic Spectrals
2 Airship
3 ToD set bonus
1 Litany
1 Haste
2 Favored Enemy
5 Sneak
---------------------
67
-5 PA
---------------------
62 Standing tohit in perfect situations
1 Double madstone
3 Titans grip
5 Action boost
4 Halflings Companion
------------------------
71 Tohit on first swing in Extreme perfect conditions
76 Tohit with Powerattack off

[khaldan]

some peoples doesnt read well before answering

this post is not about AC, it's about atack bonus and if you can sustain 60 I want to see the numbers

13/6/1 halfling tempest rogue
20 BaB(Madstone)
13 Str(16 base+5 levels+6 item+2 tome+2 rage+2 madstone+1 guild+2 ram's might)
1 Halfling racial
4 Halfling Guile
3 SA accuracy
2 FE
5 SA item
2 Flanking
5 weapon
2 Spectrals/tumbleweed
2 ToD shintao set
2 Airship Dummy
4 GH
1 haste
=
66, and all of that is self buffs. Add in another 3 bard and -5 for PA, and we get to a 64.

That goes up another 7 with light monk buffs, and higher with double madstone and other fun things.

[Hokonoso]

try for 55, that's a solid number, if much under get destruction/imp destruction.

[Maxou69]

tx for putting the numbers

44 str for an exploiter? I thought they were AC builds.

You include a lot of stuff that I didnt look at like epic spectral, dummy and stackable ring sets. tx guys +1 for you all

edit: I'm a gimp lol

[Junts]

Hi, I just wonder whats the magic number to hit epic bosses. At 40 buffed no bard in the party I wasnt able to hit Malecia in big top. (no problem with trash mob tho) So I had to shut down my WF power attack.

tx

The to-hit requirements vary. Malicia has very, very high ac - over 65. Very few people can hit her every time without turning off PA, even with full bard buffs. Even the very best melees don't get past around +60 on their first swing.

Velah, on the other hand, is in the mid-40s and is very easy to hit.

The Demon queen is in the higher 50s range and moderately challenging.

[Sweyn]

44 str for an exploiter? I thought they were AC builds.

The exploiter, in my opinion, is a DPS build with capibilities to reach high ac, rogue skills, and UMD.

15 Base
5 Level
4 Tome
7 Item
3 Exceptional
1 Litany
1 Human Adaptability
------------
36 Unbuffed
2 Rage
2 Rams
2 Yugo
2 Madstone
-----------
44 Sustainable STR (I can keep madstone up 95% of the time)
6 Titans grip
2 Double madstone
-----------
52 STR (This is sustained for fights like shroud part 4 and 5, ToD part 2 etc)

But usually in epics and all the raids I am at a standing 44

[sirgog]

That's what I expected. I tried soling the first room of wizking with my ftr-rog mutt. I was easily in the low to mid 40s self buffed, and I had a real hard time with those packmasters. They must have had ~70 AC. Of course that was a while ago, so i'm not sure if they were nerfed since then. The first named minotaur in von1 was also right up there too. Most other mobs were no trouble, especially when destructed/imp destructed. I also had radiance to ensure sneak attack bonus to-hit. If a mob was particularly tough i'd first bluff and then hit smite for the sneak and cha bonus to land both destruction (on my dt armor) and improved destruction, but even then that didn't seem to be enough on the packmasters and that minotaur. I'd shoot for at least +50 self-buffed

IIRC Angog the Champion is 67 before exhaustion, 64 after.

Can be dropped into the high 40s with Destruction, Improved Destruction and Sundering Ooze.

[Natashaelle]

some peoples doesnt read well before answering

some peoples had their sarcasm detector in the "off" position before reading the answers ;)

[amoraenk]

The bonus from a 20lvl bard is 9 (7 from Inspire courage, 2 from inspire greatness).

[sirgog]

The bonus from a 20lvl bard is 9 (7 from Inspire courage, 2 from inspire greatness).

and +1 more for Warchanter, if appropriate.

[grodon9999]

Keep in mind destruction and improved destruction stack.


No, the effects do not stack.

[grodon9999]

Take my Exploiter for example

20 BaB
17 STR (44 STR)
5 Weapons
7 Bard
4 Epic Spectrals
2 Airship
3 ToD set bonus
1 Litany
1 Haste
2 Favored Enemy
5 Sneak
---------------------
67
-5 PA
---------------------
62 Standing tohit in perfect situations
1 Double madstone
3 Titans grip
5 Action boost
4 Halflings Companion
------------------------
71 Tohit on first swing in Extreme perfect conditions
76 Tohit with Powerattack off

Just pointing out, you don't need to be this ubber-geared to not miss. My ranger's sustainable STR in epic-mode is 42 with madstone and I have normal Spectral gloves and the Tempest set from ToD. I rarely miss in Epics with PA on, even without a bard.

We do improve-destruct and exhaust her as a matter of course, but why wouldn't you?

Certain gear is imperative to get, Tharnes for all melee. My 50 STR fighter misses a LOT more than my 40ish STR ranger because he doesn't have these yet. The ToD sets also give great bonuses, Spectral gloves or a Tumbleweed are great to have also, a Shimmering Arrowhead is nice as well though you're better off with a Bloodstone. Madstone boots get you to full BAB, Divine power-clickies are good for us non-full-BAB multi-classes. Improved Destruction and Improved Shattermantle weapons are also good to carry around.

[Dilbon]

The bonus from a 20lvl bard is 9 (7 from Inspire courage, 2 from inspire greatness).

Inspire greatness however doesn't stack with spectral gloves bonus.

[SiliconShadow]

A base of 44 is minimum for any epic boss to hit on a 5~7+ of the time and that is the low end.

From there you can destruct and use a heroism / GH clicky for the boost if need be, but when you get to the high end you will still struggle without the full buff payload and even then at wizking or dq you WILL be hitting on a 18+.

If you don't have the gear / tr's under your belt try and do the lower end epics only until you get yourself up a bit (Carnival and VON (not raid)) will be good here.

[Firepants]

Just play your character and get decent gear and you'll be fine. Unless you're totally gimped both build and gear-wise epic isn't really that difficult.

[Quikster]

The bonus from a 20lvl bard is 9 (7 from Inspire courage, 2 from inspire greatness).

Yes but the epic spectral gloves and bard songs dont fully stack. +2 from epic spectrals stack with bard songs, hence the lower amount from bard songs.

[Quikster]

No, the effects do not stack.

Pretty sure they do. They certainly used too. I can test again later today.

[grodon9999]

Pretty sure they do. They certainly used too. I can test again later today.

We testing in PvP, with both effects on me my AC was only down 8. This was a few months ago though and I don't know if this is still the case.

[Quikster]

No, the effects do not stack.

Just tested as well, only get -8 with destruction on armor and imp destruction weapon.