archmage- the prestige design for wf?

[windchant]

been reading about archmage...and this is what i thought after reading about it.. please tell me that am wrong...(need help with none wf archmage build)

it seem that turbine just love WF.. they have already taken dominate over the arcane caster class, now they want them to be even stronger with this new WF prestige- the Archmage..

first both prestige ability Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast are force damage.. and we all know that force damage enhancement are together with repair...

plus all evocation damage spell are force damage spell..
Evocation I - Magic Missile
Evocation III - Chain Missiles

p.s. the other two are gust of wind and fire shield.. which doesn't seem to be damage spell... in another word..

[flynnjsw]

been reading about archmage...and this is what i thought after reading about it.. please tell me that am wrong...(need help with none wf archmage build)

it seem that turbine just love WF.. they have already taken dominate over the arcane caster class, now they want them to be even stronger with this new WF prestige- the Archmage..

first both prestige ability Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast are force damage.. and we all know that force damage enhancement are together with repair...

plus all evocation damage spell are force damage spell..
Evocation I - Magic Missile
Evocation III - Chain Missiles

p.s. the other two are gust of wind and fire shield.. which doesn't seem to be damage spell... in another word..


Exactly what do the Force line and the Repair line have to do with one another? As far as Warforged go, I don't see why they wouldn't get love, considering it is currently the only Ebberon only race.

[windchant]

Exactly what do the Force line and the Repair line have to do with one another? As far as Warforged go, I don't see why they wouldn't get love, considering it is currently the only Ebberon only race.

hmm you ever play wiz or sorc?? the enhancement for repair and force spell are bundle together. so a none wf sorc/wiz will benifit from half of the ability grant by these enhancement..(unless they build their character to heal other wf.. which is like never gonna happen)

enhancement:
Wizard Force Manipulation I
Usage: Passive
Cost: 1 action point
Available to Wizard class level 1
Grants a 10% increase to the damage or effectiveness of your force and repair spells.

Wizard Lineage of Force I
Usage: Passive
Cost: 1 action point
Spent: 7 action points
Available to Wizard class level 3
Grants a 3% chance for force and repair spells to generate a critical result for 1.5 times the normal damage or repair amount. (Base spell critical chance is 0% and base critical damage multiplier is 1.5.)

Wizard Lineage of Deadly Force I
Usage: Passive
Cost: 1 action point
Spent: 15 action points
Requires All of: Wizard Lineage of Force I
Available to Wizard class level 5
Your force and repair spell critical multipliers are increased by an additional 0.25, bringing your base critical multiplier for these spells to 1.75.

[Otherworld]

Exactly what do the Force line and the Repair line have to do with one another? As far as Warforged go, I don't see why they wouldn't get love, considering it is currently the only Ebberon only race.

Force and repair are linked in the enchancements.
A lot of non-wf casters only take the fire/ice line and don't bother with force, thus the new spells aren't that good to them as to wf.

Actually, I'm glad to see some love towards other types of spells.

EDIT: d'oh beaten to it.

[flynnjsw]

hmm you ever play wiz or sorc?? the enhancement for repair and force spell are bundle together. so a none wf sorc/wiz will benifit from half of the ability grant by these enhancement..(unless they build their character to heal other wf.. which is like never gonna happen)

enhancement:
Wizard Force Manipulation I
Usage: Passive
Cost: 1 action point
Available to Wizard class level 1
Grants a 10% increase to the damage or effectiveness of your force and repair spells.

Wizard Lineage of Force I
Usage: Passive
Cost: 1 action point
Spent: 7 action points
Available to Wizard class level 3
Grants a 3% chance for force and repair spells to generate a critical result for 1.5 times the normal damage or repair amount. (Base spell critical chance is 0% and base critical damage multiplier is 1.5.)

Wizard Lineage of Deadly Force I
Usage: Passive
Cost: 1 action point
Spent: 15 action points
Requires All of: Wizard Lineage of Force I
Available to Wizard class level 5
Your force and repair spell critical multipliers are increased by an additional 0.25, bringing your base critical multiplier for these spells to 1.75.

And? So if you don't go WF, then maybe you don't want to go the Force/Repair route. Or, you can go that route and maybe help heal the WF, since that is what the reapir line is for. I think you are way off when you say that any non WF that take the line only benefit from 1/2 of it.


Edit...and yes, I did forget that the Force and Repair lines were paired. I have played Arcane casters, but not nearly as much as Divine.

[windchant]

Force and repair are linked in the enchancements.
A lot of non-wf casters only take the fire/ice line and don't bother with force, thus the new spells aren't that good to them as to wf.

Actually, I'm glad to see some love towards other types of spells.

yea but like 90% of the archmage damage spell like ability are force base... and the prerequirement of these are focous in evocation(which give a total of +4 dc to evocation)... in another word a none wf wiz who went for evocation focous will either have no spell like ability that is any useful.. or been force to take the repair line along with force line.

p.s. the other line are ice and fire, acid and lightning.. which are way better choice.. but no spell like ability nor archmage ability to choose from...


================================================== =========================
Evocation I - Magic Missile
Prereqs: Level 6 Wizard, Wizard Archmage I, Spell Focus: Evocation
Benefit: You have committed the spell Magic Missile permanently to memory as a spell-like ability. Using this ability costs you 1 spell point. Purchasing this enhancement will reduce your maximum spell point total by 25.

for archmage to take spell like ability you need spell focous feat in the same spell school. so an evocation wiz can only choose force base damage spell..

there are two spell like ability which are not linked with spell school nor feat. they are Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast, they too are force base damage. so for WF either they go evocation or not they always get force base damage spell like ability to choose from. and there are non for other element!
================================================== ==========================
there are many spell school..but most of them are ******** in ddo.. since most of the spell have not been implement.. who the hell want dc for Abjuration,Illusion, Conjuration and Transmutation?? i really wanna know...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

hmm you ever play wiz or sorc?? the enhancement for repair and force spell are bundle together. so a none wf sorc/wiz will benifit from half of the ability grant by these enhancement..(unless they build their character to heal other wf.. which is like never gonna happen).

I have a fleshy sorc and a wf wiz, and that makes no sense. Both have reconstruct because of course both should be able to heal wf. Your wiz/sorc is gimp if they can't heal wf.

Archmage is no more powerful in the hands of a WF and a fleshie.

[windchant]

I have a fleshy sorc and a wf wiz, and that makes no sense. Both have reconstruct because of course both should be able to heal wf. Your wiz/sorc is gimp if they can't heal wf.

Archmage is no more powerful in the hands of a WF and a fleshie.

so every fleshie wiz should be able to repair wf and taken enhancement for it?? lol very funny...so your fleshie always take force/repair line and always act as healer to wf?? only wf wiz can repair themself...

[Lorien_the_First_One]

so every fleshie wiz should be able to repair wf and taken enhancement for it?? lol very funny...so your fleshie always take force/repair line and always act as healer to wf?? only wf wiz can repair themself...

Yes, only a wf wiz can repair themselves. So?

Yes, both fleshie and wf should carry reconstruct and be able to repair WF. Both should also take the first enhancement as its good value for money on both force and repair spells when they are needed.

If your fleshy can't heal wf I'm guessing you don't get into raids much.

[windchant]

Yes, only a wf wiz can repair themselves. So?

Yes, both fleshie and wf should carry reconstruct and be able to repair WF. Both should also take the first enhancement as its good value for money on both force and repair spells when they are needed.

If your fleshy can't heal wf I'm guessing you don't get into raids much.

but do you taken enhancement line? without it it means way less damage...

wf already benifit from repair skill, now they benifit even more... at the same time they repair more damage and be able to deal more damage with their spell like ability. it wasn't fair from the begining, and this just make it more unfair to fleshie..

[FlyingTurtle]

Guys, FYI, this guy is the same guy who started that multi-page flamebait thread about how FvS are superior to Clerics in every way possible.

[PopeJual]

Yes, only a wf wiz can repair themselves. So?

Yes, both fleshie and wf should carry reconstruct and be able to repair WF. Both should also take the first enhancement as its good value for money on both force and repair spells when they are needed.

If your fleshy can't heal wf I'm guessing you don't get into raids much.

...well, there is almost always a piker slot that can be taken in a raid. I just hope that the raid's leader knows that he's taking the piker slot in Hound or VoD and isn't surprised at the raid entrance.

[windchant]

Guys, FYI, this guy is the same guy who started that multi-page flamebait thread about how FvS are superior to Clerics in every way possible.

flamebait? isn't that just the truth??? or was it too hard for you to admit the truth? cleric are just inferior in any offenisve build, at least without their domain they are!...the conclusion of that thread is that cleric are born to be heal bot...or perhaps you have new argument?

also are you suggesting that WF do not get more benefit from this archmage prestige?? all damage ability of archmage are force base, and force enhancement are linked with repair spell. and only WF benifit from repair spell..

there are many spell school, but in DDO onl enchantment and evocation seem to matter... most of the other school have very few number of spell, or having most of the spell unaffected by dc. to take archmage ability you need spell focous in spell school! and for most of the other school dc is totally useless!

[Krag]

Reconstruct is extremely useful in ToD and VoD but once you pulled your rings, the need for reconstruct is drastically reduced.

[Crystalizer]

i agree this is not really a boost for wf wizards to a simple reason : construct is 150hp, plus sup pot 6 ->225hp, and since you generally cast this spell before being almost dead you don't really need the force/repair enhancement line

[Lorien_the_First_One]

but do you taken enhancement line? without it it means way less damage...

wf already benifit from repair skill, now they benifit even more... at the same time they repair more damage and be able to deal more damage with their spell like ability. it wasn't fair from the begining, and this just make it more unfair to fleshie..

repair skill is useless, no one takes it.

And I have already answered your question on the enhancement line. For the purposes of self healing though (which seems to be your focus), why would you need more than the 1st enhancement line for reconstruct? That's already about 250hp, more than enough for self healing. The only reason to go more is to repair others or to use force attacks, both of which are equally valid on a fleshie build.

[MateCarefor]

With all the SF and GSF required, I would say ArcMage is designed for Humans due to their extra available feat and the extra racial Intelligence option.

Not that it matters, since you are hung up on what will be the least useful school focus at endgame, and the least exploited/spammed damage type.
So, huzzah for the force-spec WF ArcMagi; I'll take the Enchantment focussed, fire/icers for Epics, thanks just the same.

[windchant]

repair skill is useless, no one takes it.

And I have already answered your question on the enhancement line. For the purposes of self healing though (which seems to be your focus), why would you need more than the 1st enhancement line for reconstruct? That's already about 250hp, more than enough for self healing. The only reason to go more is to repair others or to use force attacks, both of which are equally valid on a fleshie build.

this post is all about archmage!! it is not about reconstruct!!!

archmage evocation focous spell like ability are all force base damage, archmage none spell school ability are also all force damage base!!

btw.. are you telling me that none of the WF take force enhancement line??? so they do not benifit from this free 40% extra healing from all repair type spell?? it cost no sp to use empower? this is like empower with no sp cost, and stack with everything...

[voodoogroves]

wf already benifit from repair skill

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In all seriousness, I always take Skill Focus (repair) on my WF; anyone who doesn't must be totally GIMPed. Anyone playing a Pale Master warforged is clearly a moron, as is any WF who has more enhancement points into any line that isn't force/repair. Fire/cold? No thank you, my WF is not a toaster or a freezer or any other kitchen appliance. He's a self-repairing jedi knight who uses the power of the force (though not the dark side, I'm not down with all the cloaks and hoods that requires).

[windchant]

With all the SF and GSF required, I would say ArcMage is designed for Humans due to their extra available feat and the extra racial Intelligence option.

Not that it matters, since you are hung up on what will be the least useful school focus at endgame, and the least exploited/spammed damage type.
So, huzzah for the force-spec WF ArcMagi; I'll take the Enchantment focussed, fire/icers for Epics, thanks just the same.

hmm, first those spell like ability are low level.. so without enhancement they will be close to worthless at end game.. especailly the cri and multi line.. their adventage is you can use all meta at no cost.. that means maximize, quicken, enlarge.. with no additional cost. but without the enhancement line it will not do any significan damage! therefor useless..

human do get enhancement for int.. but drow can start with 20 int.... plus 1 dc aren't that big of deal. heighten already give you enough dc raised. oh.. and human get 1 additional feat..there are way better place to spend that feat then taking an spell focous that you don't need and will not effect anything..

plus with extend most of the buff already last long enough.. even for short duration one like haste..

p.s. true human get one bonus feat, butit is not that big of deal, since wizzard get 4 bonus feat..11 vs 12 not much of different..

[windchant]

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In all seriousness, I always take Skill Focus (repair) on my WF; anyone who doesn't must be totally GIMPed. Anyone playing a Pale Master warforged is clearly a moron, as is any WF who has more enhancement points into any line that isn't force/repair. Fire/cold? No thank you, my WF is not a toaster or a freezer or any other kitchen appliance. He's a self-repairing jedi knight who uses the power of the force (though not the dark side, I'm not down with all the cloaks and hoods that requires).

***???

1st this is about archmage
2nd repair was refering to repair spell not repair skill!! please read before you reply. thanks

[voodoogroves]

For a more serious reply....

Force/repair, while useful to a WF is not as useful as the other elemental enhancement lines. In general, the ability to do 100 force damage to a monster is nice ... but since it is a mummy that spell that does 100 fire to everyone else now does 150 to the mummy. You can hit the fire dudes with ice lance or polar ray. A wizard matches the most appropriate tool from their arsenal to the foe at hand - not just spamming the least bad one (force). So yeah ... even for a WF, that line needs only minimal boosting. I can't easily boost my reconstruct to fill my HP bar completely and to come close it means those tasty things that take the monsters down faster I'm going to be worse at. I guess that means I can last longer before I die ...

Evocation DCs are also the least useful to boost. Honestly, Necromancy, Enchantment and Conjuration are much better choices to DC-boost. This is one reason why Pale Master is actually useful despite some on-paper conjecture ... Finger of Death and Wail of the Banshee are very very very handy to have at the end game, so any Necro-spec'd wizard is going to be beneficial. So will the Mass Hold spec'd ones and the ones that can guarantee the Web holds whatever they toss at it. I can even see a serious case for Transmutation.

Focusing on Evocation DCs means you want to do direct damage ... that puts you in the DPS role with the barbarian swinging his axe only his blue bar doesn't go down when he does. Now you're another cog in the group trying to do DPS. Wail of the Banshee and Finger of Death are going to let you simply eliminate mobs from the equation and allow you to direct the DPS of the other people in the group on the key targets ... and not the trash. Mass Hold is a DPS multiplier allowing the trash to get cleared much much quicker.



Archmage is great for those kinds of casters. Choose the right tool for the job.

[PopeJual]

this post is all about archmage!! it is not about reconstruct!!!

archmage evocation focous spell like ability are all force base damage, archmage none spell school ability are also all force damage base!!

btw.. are you telling me that none of the WF take force enhancement line??? so they do not benifit from this free 40% extra healing from all repair type spell?? it cost no sp to use empower? this is like empower with no sp cost, and stack with everything...

No, they really don't. No matter how many HP a WF Wizard has, 2 Reconstructs will completely fill their red bar. The 40% extra healing is kind of irrelevant when a Quickened Reconstruct take care of so many HP without anything more than the first point of the Enhancement. Also, that 40% extra repair power only works on Repair/Reconstruct spells cast from the Wizard's own spell point pool (i.e. NOT all repair spells because it doesn't hit scrolls and it doesn't hit spells cast on you by other Arcanes) is not free. It comes at a high AP cost. AP are horribly tight for Wizards in general and for Archmages in particular.

And honestly, the only thing that could make me take the Evocation line of Archmage SLAs would be if Turbine somehow put Blade Barrier as the final tier.



...hey, Memnir, is there a picture I can use to show that I know I've bitten on this Troll's hook?

[voodoogroves]

repair was refering to repair spell not repair skill!! please read before you reply. thanks

QFT. Only not actually quoted, as you edited the post both Lorien and I quoted. I think we did read it and responded to what you said, quoting it in fact.

I understand sometimes people can type the wrong things, especially if they are in a hurry and passionate about a subject.

[FlyingTurtle]

Evocation DCs are also the least useful to boost. Honestly, Necromancy, Enchantment and Conjuration are much better choices to DC-boost.

Given that Enchantment is the clear winner of the three, what are people's opinions on the other two. It seems conjuration is a one-hit wonder with just Web, whereas Necro gives you Wail, FoD, debuffs, symbols.

[Daliyn]

especially if they are in a hurry and passionate about a subject.

One should never be in a hurry and passionate about a subject at the same time.

[windchant]

For a more serious reply....

Force/repair, while useful to a WF is not as useful as the other elemental enhancement lines. In general, the ability to do 100 force damage to a monster is nice ... but since it is a mummy that spell that does 100 fire to everyone else now does 150 to the mummy. You can hit the fire dudes with ice lance or polar ray. A wizard matches the most appropriate tool from their arsenal to the foe at hand - not just spamming the least bad one (force). So yeah ... even for a WF, that line needs only minimal boosting. I can't easily boost my reconstruct to fill my HP bar completely and to come close it means those tasty things that take the monsters down faster I'm going to be worse at. I guess that means I can last longer before I die ...

Evocation DCs are also the least useful to boost. Honestly, Necromancy, Enchantment and Conjuration are much better choices to DC-boost. This is one reason why Pale Master is actually useful despite some on-paper conjecture ... Finger of Death and Wail of the Banshee are very very very handy to have at the end game, so any Necro-spec'd wizard is going to be beneficial. So will the Mass Hold spec'd ones and the ones that can guarantee the Web holds whatever they toss at it. I can even see a serious case for Transmutation.

Focusing on Evocation DCs means you want to do direct damage ... that puts you in the DPS role with the barbarian swinging his axe only his blue bar doesn't go down when he does. Now you're another cog in the group trying to do DPS. Wail of the Banshee and Finger of Death are going to let you simply eliminate mobs from the equation and allow you to direct the DPS of the other people in the group on the key targets ... and not the trash. Mass Hold is a DPS multiplier allowing the trash to get cleared much much quicker.



Archmage is great for those kinds of casters. Choose the right tool for the job.


Evocation dc not useful??? you don't use firewall?? do you have any idea that all those damage spell will do only half damage if target roll pass your dc?? do you have any clue if target have evasion you will done no damage at all when target roll higher then your spell dc??? what are you thinking?


necromancer dc been useful?? how?? you mean slay living??? hmm it doesn't work on most of the monster.. and this is not cleric!! this is arcane spell, not divine spell!! you don't get that much of necromancer spell as a wizzard! (their debuff are powerful.. but 99% of them won't work on any of the boss)

Conjuration are mostly summon spell.. which need no dc.. the only ones that need dc are web and Melf's Acid Arrow... there are no more then five conjuration spell that need any dc.. and you consider it to be much more important???



yea, everyone know that force enhancement line will not be as useful as other line. but hey only wf benifit from the repair part of the enhancement. other class only benifit half of what WF will get~~~

p.s. as i said evocation and enchantment are the only two spell school that dc taking big effect~~~ one is damage, other one is control~~~ the rest are poor implemented, lacking of spell~~~

from what i have seen, CC and enchantment is basically a bard's job.. their capestone give 2dc toward enchantment spell. and their song capable of CC almost everything in game.

[FlyingTurtle]

Evocation dc not useful??? you don't use firewall?? do you have any idea that all those damage spell will do only half damage if target roll pass your dc??

OMGZ!! (Furiously stabs Heighten to improve the DCs of his firewall)

[voodoogroves]

Probably a better topic for another thread.

[windchant]

OMGZ!! (Furiously stabs Heighten to improve the DCs of his firewall)

and your Heighten give enough dc for epic?? please tell me yes

p.s. if your Heighten give enough dc for evocation, then it will give enough dc for all other spell school. therefor spell focous(school) feat are totally useless by your theory. good job!!

[AltheaSteelrain]

The force is strong on this one!!!

Anyways, I havea gimp fleshie that is a force spec'd necro that will self heal itself come U7, the extra repair enhancements from the force line will be useful in making me less gimp.

so no, Archmage is not built for WF, only if you already set your mind into it that it should be that way.

Wizards ain't your cookie cutter build yah know :D

[Teharahma]

Evocation dc not useful??? you don't use firewall?? do you have any idea that all those damage spell will do only half damage if target roll pass your dc?? do you have any clue if target have evasion you will done no damage at all when target roll higher then your spell dc??? what are you thinking?


necromancer dc been useful?? how?? you mean slay living??? hmm it doesn't work on most of the monster.. and this is not cleric!! this is arcane spell, not divine spell!! you don't get that much of necromancer spell as a wizzard! (their debuff are powerful.. but 99% of them won't work on any of the boss)

Conjuration are mostly summon spell.. which need no dc.. the only ones that need dc are web and Melf's Acid Arrow... there are no more then five conjuration spell that need any dc.. and you consider it to be much more important???



yea, everyone know that force enhancement line will not be as useful as other line. but hey only wf benifit from the repair part of the enhancement. other class only benifit half of what WF will get~~~

p.s. as i said evocation and enchantment are the only two spell school that dc taking big effect~~~ one is damage, other one is control~~~ the rest are poor implemented, lacking of spell~~~

from what i have seen, CC and enchantment is basically a bard's job.. their capestone give 2dc toward enchantment spell. and their song capable of CC almost everything in game.

Do you even play ?

Wall of Fire has no save, so Evocation DC isn't affected.


Also, Acid Blast is a Conjuration spell, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, necro DC not useful, do you even have a capped caster, which uses Wail of the Banshee or Finger of Death ?

[FlyingTurtle]

and your Heighten give enough dc for epic?? please tell me yes

No.... It.... it seems to have.... NO EFFECT!!!!! Waaaaaaaah

[windchant]

The force is strong on this one!!!

Anyways, I havea gimp fleshie that is a force spec'd necro that will self heal itself come U7, the extra repair enhancements from the force line will be useful in making me less gimp.

so no, Archmage is not built for WF, only if you already set your mind into it that it should be that way.

Wizards ain't your cookie cutter build yah know :D

fleshie wiz self heal??? are you day dreaming???? lol are you telling me that force spell will heal fleshie wiz in u7??

if not why are you taking force line?? out of your mind???

[windchant]

No.... It.... it seems to have.... NO EFFECT!!!!! Waaaaaaaah

yea thats why you need dc....with enough dc they will have effect.. feat, stats, equipment.. they sum up.. but if you play a jack of all trade then none of them will have effect... that was my point from very begining....

[MateCarefor]

been reading about archmage...and this is what i thought after reading about it.. please tell me that am wrong...(need help with none wf archmage build)

it seem that turbine just love WF.. they have already taken dominate over the arcane caster class, now they want them to be even stronger with this new WF prestige- the Archmage..

first both prestige ability Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast are force damage.. and we all know that force damage enhancement are together with repair...

plus all evocation damage spell are force damage spell..
Evocation I - Magic Missile
Evocation III - Chain Missiles

p.s. the other two are gust of wind and fire shield.. which doesn't seem to be damage spell... in another word..

Dunno why, but I am going to post again to the OP. Besides reading about it, have you played with it on Lam?
I put my human, 28pt, lvl20, wizard over there, and spec'd and respec'd to mess around.

My 2cp: Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast are a total absolute waste.
Cute to have to get attention to bring something to a WoF or for favor farming, but I regretted putting them on my bar after one loop through the Vale wilderness.
Magic Missile is likely more useful as a past life than an SLA, and the sp lost to add multiple SLAs seemed totally not worth it, while the sp added through the ArcMage PrE was very nice (potentially).

What I did find? Two things:
1. ArcMage Enchantment focus with SLA hypno landed 100% in Devil's Battlefield for me.
Otto's (second SLA) landed about 90%, and had to enervate the tiefling casters to get it to land on them.
Overall, hypno and the DC bonuses made a cc ArcMage pretty awesome, and only taking 1 SLA boosted me up another 150 or so sp over where I was on live.
I would use this build (with a G Reinc or as a TR, since as I said, I am only a 28 pointer on him)

2. Pale Master. Very surprised. The live event armor makes Necrotic Ray awesome, the Death Aura healing was clicking for 50 a pulse on me,
the fortification and bonuses to hp in lich form are great (as well as the UMD bonus),
(insert more praise here) - was amazed and how versitile it seems to be on Lam at the moment.
Even got my first solo epic completion testing on Lam as a PM !!
The summons are **** and a waste of AP (to me), but I may actually respec to Fail Master after U7 lands. (nver thought I would say that)

tl;dr - Try things on Lam. WF are good at being arcanes, so are other races. Good stuff in U7. Go Play. :D

[voodoogroves]

Evocation dc not useful??? you don't use firewall?? do you have any idea that all those damage spell will do only half damage if target roll pass your dc?? do you have any clue if target have evasion you will done no damage at all when target roll higher then your spell dc??? what are you thinking?
I have not cast an evasion-reducing damage spell on my wizard for a very, very long time.

Maybe you don't realize this but the rays are not affected by evasion, nor is Wall of Fire.



necromancer dc been useful?? how?? you mean slay living??? hmm it doesn't work on most of the monster.. and this is not cleric!! this is arcane spell, not divine spell!! you don't get that much of necromancer spell as a wizzard! (their debuff are powerful.. but 99% of them won't work on any of the boss)
Necromancy isn't for taking out the boss. It is for taking out the trash. I'm assuming you're honestly confused here, so I'm going to respond with that frame of mind.

Finger of Death (a wiz/sorc spell) has a fort save ... enemy casters tend to have lower fort saves and it is EXCELLENT for taking out enemy casters, beholders, etc. Wail of the Banshee is an area that, if you jump into a bunch of trash, has a good chance of taking out all or most of them INSTANTLY. I use this in the IQ, Vale, etc. frequently. Way more than I use delayed blast fireball.



Conjuration are mostly summon spell.. which need no dc.. the only ones that need dc are web and Melf's Acid Arrow... there are no more then five conjuration spell that need any dc.. and you consider it to be much more important???
I can't think of a situation where I must must must really really want someone to fail a DC for an evocation spell. I can think of many places where I really want web to land. So, yes.



yea, everyone know that force enhancement line will not be as useful as other line. but hey only wf benifit from the repair part of the enhancement. other class only benifit half of what WF will get~~~
Oh there will be WF force-spec'd archmages out there. I would actually consider it if I knew I was going to TR and not spend a lot of time hanging out at 20 in epics or late-game raids. It would be fun. I'd also maybe consider it on an arcane psychoe. Then again, I might also decide I'd rather run a Tukaw build instead or any other sorc.



p.s. as i said evocation and enchantment are the only two spell school that dc taking big effect~~~ one is damage, other one is control~~~ the rest are poor implemented, lacking of spell~~~
The others are less attractive, yes. You'd only consider them for a combination of their SLAs and the DC effect. You probably wouldn't consider them for long-term epic play.



from what i have seen, CC and enchantment is basically a bard's job.. their capestone give 2dc toward enchantment spell. and their song capable of CC almost everything in game.
They can fascinate very well. Their charm DCs are going to lag behind a wizard because they can't heighten beyond level 6 (that's 3 right there), and they can't Hold Monster at all, so no auto-crit mode for bards. An archmage enchanter will have a stronger dancing ball than a spellsinger by 3.

Bards and Wizards CC differently. Bards fascinate, suggest, charm, dance ... and buff the party with their songs. Wizards can charm, hold, dance ... throw down area damage spells, webs, even more party buffs.

[windchant]

Dunno why, but I am going to post again to the OP. Besides reading about it, have you played with it on Lam?
I put my human, 28pt, lvl20, wizard over there, and spec'd and respec'd to mess around.

My 2cp: Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast are a total absolute waste.
Cute to have to get attention to bring something to a WoF or for favor farming, but I regretted putting them on my bar after one loop through the Vale wilderness.
Magic Missile is likely more useful as a past life than an SLA, and the sp lost to add multiple SLAs seemed totally not worth it, while the sp added through the ArcMage PrE was very nice (potentially).

What I did find? Two things:
1. ArcMage Enchantment focus with SLA hypno landed 100% in Devil's Battlefield for me.
Otto's (second SLA) landed about 90%, and had to enervate the tiefling casters to get it to land on them.
Overall, hypno and the DC bonuses made a cc ArcMage pretty awesome, and only taking 1 SLA boosted me up another 150 or so sp over where I was on live.
I would use this build (with a G Reinc or as a TR, since as I said, I am only a 28 pointer on him)

2. Pale Master. Very surprised. The live event armor makes Necrotic Ray awesome, the Death Aura healing was clicking for 50 a pulse on me,
the fortification and bonuses to hp in lich form are great (as well as the UMD bonus),
(insert more praise here) - was amazed and how versitile it seems to be on Lam at the moment.
Even got my first solo epic completion testing on Lam as a PM !!
The summons are **** and a waste of AP (to me), but I may actually respec to Fail Master after U7 lands. (nver thought I would say that)

tl;dr - Try things on Lam. WF are good at being arcanes, so are other races. Good stuff in U7. Go Play. :D


i have not try it on lam server... **** i wish i could, but i have bandwidth limit...unable to down any major stuff until next month T_T

have you taken the enhancement line for force?? have you turn on(have) all the meta that could enhance the damage?? did you equip stuff that increase force damage,cri,multi?

also arcane blot/blast seem to be design for people who are not evocation.. since you do not need a spell school to taken these two, i don't doubt they been inferior.. but again they were cheap dps, and meta are free..

[ToKu]

No.... It.... it seems to have.... NO EFFECT!!!!! Waaaaaaaah

HAHAHAHA +1! Im not sure if the OP is a troll or just so uninformed and unable to accept that he is wrong and learn.... but you have done a fabulous job so far!

[hermespan]

Exactly what do the Force line and the Repair line have to do with one another? As far as Warforged go, I don't see why they wouldn't get love, considering it is currently the only Ebberon only race.

Repair is affected by the same enhancements as force not that it matters...

I use reconstruct and fill my health bar in one shot on my WF wizard and didn't take that enhancement line.

[windchant]

I have not cast an evasion-reducing damage spell on my wizard for a very, very long time.

Maybe you don't realize this but the rays are not affected by evasion, nor is Wall of Fire.

lol sorry, mess up with BB, was doing my cleric XD


Necromancy isn't for taking out the boss. It is for taking out the trash. I'm assuming you're honestly confused here, so I'm going to respond with that frame of mind.

never expect finger of death work on boss, but even trash are mostly immune to it's effect. plus trash get taken down rather fast, kinda wasting sp to debuff them. i would rather CC then debuff.


I can't think of a situation where I must must must really really want someone to fail a DC for an evocation spell. I can think of many places where I really want web to land. So, yes.

i would rather use enchantment spell.. web is just reflex save, which don't work on dex base enemy. while enchantment have spells that target both fort and will.. you don't see much stuff with both high will and fort. and for those non dex base stuff, usually your dc is enough with a simple heighten. therefor kinda useless



They can fascinate very well. Their charm DCs are going to lag behind a wizard because they can't heighten beyond level 6 (that's 3 right there), and they can't Hold Monster at all, so no auto-crit mode for bards. An archmage enchanter will have a stronger dancing ball than a spellsinger by 3.

Bards and Wizards CC differently. Bards fascinate, suggest, charm, dance ... and buff the party with their songs. Wizards can charm, hold, dance ... throw down area damage spells, webs, even more party buffs.

true but their past life feat kinda make it up. plus fascinate DC = Perform skill + 1d20 against will, so bard could cc stuff that no other class could..

[windchant]

HAHAHAHA +1! Im not sure if the OP is a troll or just so uninformed and unable to accept that he is wrong and learn.... but you have done a fabulous job so far!

so you are saying none of the arcane spell work on epic... lol very funny... am wrong? so wf don't take more adventage over archmage prestige??

[voodoogroves]

Repair is affected by the same enhancements as force not that it matters...

I use reconstruct and fill my health bar in one shot on my WF wizard and didn't take that enhancement line.

Then you need more hit points ;-)

[windchant]

Repair is affected by the same enhancements as force not that it matters...

I use reconstruct and fill my health bar in one shot on my WF wizard and didn't take that enhancement line.

so if a lvl 1 repair spell can heal you to full with enhancement, you will still use reconstruct? infinite sp?

[voodoogroves]

never expect finger of death work on boss, but even trash are mostly immune to it's effect. plus trash get taken down rather fast, kinda wasting sp to debuff them. i would rather CC then debuff.
Finger of death isn't for the boss. It is for the Bralani Sorcerer in the back behind all the melee mobs that your barbarian can't get to until the trash in front is gone but keeps spamming spells at your party. You one shot HIM.

Using Wail on a group of 10 in Mindsunder or Ritual Sacrfice is much easier on party resources than sitting in the back and watching the melees kill them and take damage at the same time. It saves time and saves party resources.


i would rather use enchantment spell.. web is just reflex save, which don't work on dex base enemy. while enchantment have spells that target both fort and will.. you don't see much stuff with both high will and fort. and for those non dex base stuff, usually your dc is enough with a simple heighten. therefor kinda useless
No, but you see plenty of things you can't charm or are highly immune to enchantment. Nearly all of Amrath ... golems, undead, etc.

Being a wizard isn't about doing one thing and one thing only - it's about being able to attack the weakness of the specific enemy with the best option to cripple or defeat them so they are easier to bypass for your party and use less party resources.




true but their past life feat kinda make it up. plus fascinate DC = Perform skill + 1d20 against will, so bard could cc stuff that no other class could..
Only if CC means "make them stand in one place until I attack them" or "make them charmed". Wizards add "make them auto-critable" and "make that thing that the bard can't fascinate also stand still" and "make it so no one can get through that door".

[ToKu]

so you are saying none of the arcane spell work on epic... lol very funny... am wrong? so wf don't take more adventage over archmage prestige??

Im saying that your claim in the OP is baseless. As it currently stands very few will pick up Arcane Bolt or Blast, they are not worth it. As for the PRE's, I have not run every epic quest yet, but the ones I have run I have not seen our arcane spamming force missles at targets.

Its mostly CC and AE.

So no, I do not think the archmage PRE gives any significant advantage to WF's over fleshies, nor do I think it was designed for them in particular.

Your comments about spell focuses and DC's have been way off as well, so you are either trolling or terribly missinformed and seem to be unable to accept that you are wrong.

[voodoogroves]

And I have to retract one of my earlier statements. I do use Cone of Cold in DQ, and it does have a save.

[windchant]

Im saying that your claim in the OP is baseless. As it currently stands very few will pick up Arcane Bolt or Blast, they are not worth it. As for the PRE's, I have not run every epic quest yet, but the ones I have run I have not seen our arcane spamming force missles at targets.

Its mostly CC and AE.

So no, I do not think the archmage PRE gives any significant advantage to WF's over fleshies, nor do I think it was designed for them in particular.

Your comments about spell focuses and DC's have been way off as well, so you are either trolling or terribly missinformed and seem to be unable to accept that you are wrong.

arcane blast and blot are only good for people who have force enhancement line and not focous on evocation. it is cheap and feat free, so can't expect too much from them.

yea i mess up fire wall and BB~~that i admit

[MateCarefor]

...have you taken the enhancement line for force?? have you turn on(have) all the meta that could enhance the damage?? did you equip stuff that increase force damage,cri,multi?

yep. on live my arcane runs full F/R (I heal WFs and use 'Missiles a good bit) and F/I (duh - don't we all?) lines, and on my first ArcMage respec I took the same again to see if I could get them all in.
And as with any lvl20, all my metas are on full-time 'cept Enlarge (yeah, yeah, I use enlarge. Go ahead and laugh till epic VoN1 queues up :P )
In addition, I use sup potency/sup pen passive handhelds, but did not run a 3 min clickie or eardweller cause, well, why the deuce would I waste a clickie to enhance force instead of using Inferno/Spark/Freeze? :)

All said, the damage was marginal (in my opinion), but I can concede it decent given its cost; it's just nothing to sell the farm for.


...also arcane blot/blast seem to be design for people who are not evocation.. since you do not need a spell school to taken these two, i don't doubt they been inferior.. but again they were cheap dps, and meta are free..

I would posit that them being 'cheap' justifies the addage 'you get what you pay for' ....
(the AP are better served going to anything else in my opinion, like Toughness .... or Basketweaving)

[windchant]

Finger of death isn't for the boss. It is for the Bralani Sorcerer in the back behind all the melee mobs that your barbarian can't get to until the trash in front is gone but keeps spamming spells at your party. You one shot HIM.

Using Wail on a group of 10 in Mindsunder or Ritual Sacrfice is much easier on party resources than sitting in the back and watching the melees kill them and take damage at the same time. It saves time and saves party resources.


No, but you see plenty of things you can't charm or are highly immune to enchantment. Nearly all of Amrath ... golems, undead, etc.

Being a wizard isn't about doing one thing and one thing only - it's about being able to attack the weakness of the specific enemy with the best option to cripple or defeat them so they are easier to bypass for your party and use less party resources.




Only if CC means "make them stand in one place until I attack them" or "make them charmed". Wizards add "make them auto-critable" and "make that thing that the bard can't fascinate also stand still" and "make it so no one can get through that door".

yea but necromancer spell only work well in certain area.. at least i wouldn't taken the spell focous for it...(still don't like slay living/figer of death... even on low fort stuff, they usually have sr.. and they don't always work.. would rather throw some fort enchantment spell to cc them.. of just blast them to piece XD)

ture, it is good to be able to do many rather then just one area. but serious, you don't have enough feat to master every spell school.. i think it would make more sense to concentrate in one spell school.. for the rest a simple heighten should be enough...

after all Archmage enhancement cost good amount of sp and ap...don't think i would choose to master two spell school...

[FlyingTurtle]

Dunno why, but I am going to post again to the OP. Besides reading about it, have you played with it on Lam?
I put my human, 28pt, lvl20, wizard over there, and spec'd and respec'd to mess around.

My 2cp: Arcane Bolt and Arcane Blast are a total absolute waste.
Cute to have to get attention to bring something to a WoF or for favor farming, but I regretted putting them on my bar after one loop through the Vale wilderness.
Magic Missile is likely more useful as a past life than an SLA, and the sp lost to add multiple SLAs seemed totally not worth it, while the sp added through the ArcMage PrE was very nice (potentially).

What I did find? Two things:
1. ArcMage Enchantment focus with SLA hypno landed 100% in Devil's Battlefield for me.
Otto's (second SLA) landed about 90%, and had to enervate the tiefling casters to get it to land on them.
Overall, hypno and the DC bonuses made a cc ArcMage pretty awesome, and only taking 1 SLA boosted me up another 150 or so sp over where I was on live.
I would use this build (with a G Reinc or as a TR, since as I said, I am only a 28 pointer on him)

2. Pale Master. Very surprised. The live event armor makes Necrotic Ray awesome, the Death Aura healing was clicking for 50 a pulse on me,
the fortification and bonuses to hp in lich form are great (as well as the UMD bonus),
(insert more praise here) - was amazed and how versitile it seems to be on Lam at the moment.
Even got my first solo epic completion testing on Lam as a PM !!
The summons are **** and a waste of AP (to me), but I may actually respec to Fail Master after U7 lands. (nver thought I would say that)

tl;dr - Try things on Lam. WF are good at being arcanes, so are other races. Good stuff in U7. Go Play. :D

+1 for extremely informative and helpful.

[voodoogroves]

yea but necromancer spell only work well in certain area.. at least i wouldn't taken the spell focous for it...(still don't like slay living/figer of death... even on low fort stuff, they usually have sr.. and they don't always work.. would rather throw some fort enchantment spell to cc them.. of just blast them to piece XD)

ture, it is good to be able to do many rather then just one area. but serious, you don't have enough feat to master every spell school.. i think it would make more sense to concentrate in one spell school.. for the rest a simple heighten should be enough...

after all Archmage enhancement cost good amount of sp and ap...don't think i would choose to master two spell school...

We're going to have to agree to disagree. If your wizard even on a first life can't land spells because of SR, I'm not sure I can help you. If you'd rather blast them to pieces, you've already made up your mind.

[PopeJual]

One should never be in a hurry and passionate about a subject at the same time.

That's what she said.

[windchant]

We're going to have to agree to disagree. If your wizard even on a first life can't land spells because of SR, I'm not sure I can help you. If you'd rather blast them to pieces, you've already made up your mind.

XD i did a little splash..so get low spell pen..and for that reason i didn't even bother to get spell pen feat XD~~ well gonna reroll after u7 is up.. hope things do change a bit... i wish they implement practied spell caster feat.. but ****, people are so against it.. T_T

[PopeJual]

We're going to have to agree to disagree. If your wizard even on a first life can't land spells because of SR, I'm not sure I can help you. If you'd rather blast them to pieces, you've already made up your mind.

Also, there is another Wizard prestige class that's specially designed for blasting enemies to pieces. It's call Sorcerer. :)

[gurgar78]

What I did find? Two things:
1. ArcMage Enchantment focus with SLA hypno landed 100% in Devil's Battlefield for me.
Otto's (second SLA) landed about 90%, and had to enervate the tiefling casters to get it to land on them.
Overall, hypno and the DC bonuses made a cc ArcMage pretty awesome, and only taking 1 SLA boosted me up another 150 or so sp over where I was on live.
I would use this build (with a G Reinc or as a TR, since as I said, I am only a 28 pointer on him)

2. Pale Master. Very surprised. The live event armor makes Necrotic Ray awesome, the Death Aura healing was clicking for 50 a pulse on me,
the fortification and bonuses to hp in lich form are great (as well as the UMD bonus),
(insert more praise here) - was amazed and how versitile it seems to be on Lam at the moment.
Even got my first solo epic completion testing on Lam as a PM !!
The summons are **** and a waste of AP (to me), but I may actually respec to Fail Master after U7 lands. (nver thought I would say that)

In the interest of turning this thread into something useful, I'm going to reply to this post here. =P

Archmage I've been sorta blah about since I saw the unveiling of the costs for the enhancements and the SLAs. I'm currently a pale master and plan on remaining pale master when u7 goes live as I suspect it will be quite powerful. I'm glad to hear that, at least upon first glance, I am not wrong in that assessment.

How would you rate the comparative usefulness of Archmage vs Palemaster?

Also, why is there so much hate on PM? Even with the way it is on live now, half-broken with timed forms, it's still quite useful. I've never regretted spending the APs on it.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

this post is all about archmage!! it is not about reconstruct!!!

archmage evocation focous spell like ability are all force base damage, archmage none spell school ability are also all force damage base!!

btw.. are you telling me that none of the WF take force enhancement line??? so they do not benifit from this free 40% extra healing from all repair type spell?? it cost no sp to use empower? this is like empower with no sp cost, and stack with everything...

WF casters don't need that much of a healing boost for self healing. If they take it, its for offensive casting and healing other wf, the same reason a fleshy caster would take it. There is therefore no inherant difference for wf.

As for it being about archmage not reconstruct...you made it about reconstruct because that is the only thing different about fleshies and wf casters is using reconstruct to self heal.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

***???

1st this is about archmage
2nd repair was refering to repair spell not repair skill!! please read before you reply. thanks

You said repair skill, not the spell. Please read your own comments before you reply and insult others.


wf already benifit from repair skill, now they benifit even more....

[voodoogroves]

Also, why is there so much hate on PM? Even with the way it is on live now, half-broken with timed forms, it's still quite useful. I've never regretted spending the APs on it.

Right?

- I need to spec fire and cold. If I don't anyway, I'm a moron. Ok that pre-req is free.
- I need to take SF / GSF necro ... alright, it isn't enchantment but I have 12 feats so I can fit it in. It makes finger and wail stronger, and that's fun anyway. Besides, I'll ride Wail of the Banshee at the high-teens like I rode Wall of Fire from 7-14. Ok, that pre-req is easy.
- I *ALSO* have to take the Wiz Intelligence enhancements? Really? Man what a pain ... oh wait, I took those anyway because it generically makes me better. Ok, another free pre-req.

So spending the AP on the enhancement I get some boost to negative spells (which I guess is kinda cool, since I can't raise them like I can fire/cold, elec/acid) and I get 20 HP. Really? 20 HP? Awesome!

Oh drat ... I can only take Lich Form if I have Toughness. Yeah it horks me up, but when I turn it on I'll have 4 more con and 2 more to my necormancy DCs and 1 more to all my other DCs ... but man, I have to take Toughness? Feat requirements suck.

Wait, that was my 2nd feat I took. Forgot about that. Ok, that one is easy too.




Pale Master is very kind on the qualifications. Very.

[windchant]

WF casters don't need that much of a healing boost for self healing. If they take it, its for offensive casting and healing other wf, the same reason a fleshy caster would take it. There is therefore no inherant difference for wf.

As for it being about archmage not reconstruct...you made it about reconstruct because that is the only thing different about fleshies and wf casters is using reconstruct to self heal.

compare to other race who benifit none from repair line, it is already a huge benifit.

well either way, the topic is closed...gonna try em when u7 is up before discuss it any further~~

[windchant]

You said repair skill, not the spell. Please read your own comments before you reply and insult others.

ok i made a typo, sorry~~~ still think it is design for WF...lol well we will see when it get released...

[MateCarefor]

I'd love to redirect to something productive!


In the interest of turning this thread into something useful, I'm going to reply to this post here. =P

How would you rate the comparative usefulness of Archmage vs Palemaster?

Mate's Scale of 1-10 (1: you suck kobolds, 10: you eat doomspheres for breakfast):
ArcMage:
sp boost and high DCs at the cost of other enhancements, I would say a 5 if you try to dual focus and add more than one SLA - you end up with a lot of gimmicks, some DCs all over the place, and less sp
As an Enchantment spec, Epic cc party member, I am gonna have to go with an 8.
Bonus sp, high DCs, potential good use of an SLA; would be higher, but there can still be a pretty steep AP cost to get there, but I think it can add a heck of a lot of utility.
(Tinyelvis has some awesome posts taking the AM apart - very worth it to peruse, and has more fact to base things on than my rather biased opinons - lol - and some good point-counterpoint discussion in the threads)

Master o Paleness:
Solo or in a group of another PM, I am gonna go with a 9. The new Halloween items are easy access Abbott gear, and really add some punch.
Active aura healing with healt-cost-cast spells also gives some good sp conservation options.
Clickie control of forms is tip-top. Did not think it was going to add so much, but being in lich form all the time? Pretty schweet.
Without the new gear, it may be a bit less of a high rank, as it seems less common to snag Nullification and Void items, or maybe I have just ignored them before now.
Still some mess-ups with Neg Absorption on Silver Flame and Mantle, but, oh well. At least you do not have to save to land a harm/heal.
In a group....hrm. 4, maybe?
The pets would be annoying in a group, and most of the abilities seem more direct damage and survival as opposed to group synergy (at least to me).
I'd rather have that cc AM or a nuker-sorc, to be honest - at least at a point where Wail is not gonna clear the field.
In an epic group, I would likely be out of form to soak up mass heals and be doing the same enhancement and WoF work I would normally be doing in a group, albeit with less potential perks that an AM would have (less DC, sp's, etc).

Just my 2cp, for sure.

[ToKu]

compare to other race who benifit none from repair line, it is already a huge benifit.

well either way, the topic is closed...gonna try em when u7 is up before discuss it any further~~

Translation : LALALLAALA CANT HEAR YOU LALALLALALA!