High level melee must haves PT2

[MaximusParthas]

edited

[ReaperAlexEU]

personally i take the power of 5 with a pinch of salt.

as my characters level up i get a paralyser as soon as i can afford (which will be 12-14 for newbie players). i find that of far more use than the other power weapons at that level range.

on a TWF char the other power weapons are great (try a curse in the off hand for a power that works on hit). on a slow but heavy hitting THF a lot of them are largely a waste.

for example a banishing weapon on a slash THF barbarian is generally worse than a DPS, paralyser or even a vorp. you cant get slashing 2-handed banishers, so you have to leave your imp crit feat behind and either get a 1-handed pierce or a 2-handed blunt. either way your effectiveness drops way below what it would be with a DPS, para or vorp. also if your on a blunt thats generally a 20 crit range, which makes it worse than a vorp as its saving throw based and a vorp isnt. or if your trying to banish ele's then you could paralyse them instead, that neutralises the target a lot faster than insta kill as it wont be hitting you back while you kill it.

vorps i pick up later on, i wont do a hound without them and they are worth getting before you do inspired or amrath.

disruptors are nice, but you will still need a good skelly basher as those giant skellies are fond of death ward in TOR and beyond.

smiting is only worth it on a good crit threat range. take an adamantium (or metaline) maul over a smiting greataxe. a smiting greatsword or even better falcion will work wonders. for the TWF types any non-axe will be good, but because you get twice as many attacks even the axes can be OK.

[MaximusParthas]

personally i take the power of 5 with a pinch of salt.

as my characters level up i get a paralyser as soon as i can afford (which will be 12-14 for newbie players). i find that of far more use than the other power weapons at that level range.

on a TWF char the other power weapons are great (try a curse in the off hand for a power that works on hit). on a slow but heavy hitting THF a lot of them are largely a waste.

for example a banishing weapon on a slash THF barbarian is generally worse than a DPS, paralyser or even a vorp. you cant get slashing 2-handed banishers, so you have to leave your imp crit feat behind and either get a 1-handed pierce or a 2-handed blunt. either way your effectiveness drops way below what it would be with a DPS, para or vorp. also if your on a blunt thats generally a 20 crit range, which makes it worse than a vorp as its saving throw based and a vorp isnt. or if your trying to banish ele's then you could paralyse them instead, that neutralises the target a lot faster than insta kill as it wont be hitting you back while you kill it.

vorps i pick up later on, i wont do a hound without them and they are worth getting before you do inspired or amrath.

disruptors are nice, but you will still need a good skelly basher as those giant skellies are fond of death ward in TOR and beyond.

smiting is only worth it on a good crit threat range. take an adamantium (or metaline) maul over a smiting greataxe. a smiting greatsword or even better falcion will work wonders. for the TWF types any non-axe will be good, but because you get twice as many attacks even the axes can be OK.


I've been lucky to find the right combo of powered weapons.
A maul with improved curse & disruption
A metaline greatax of smiting
dual +5 vorpal LS's with force crit and maiming
a silver maul of banishing

I rarely use para and don't even have stunning blow. At 20th level I don't want it stopped I want it dead. Quickly. Let the non melee use paras to save they're skin and I'll mop up the mess. All the above work very well for me when needed. When not needed I'm usually using whatever tool fits the circumstances best. My favorites tend to shift. Outside of GS/epics and named weapons, Today I like burst/pure good for damage. tendon slice has shown to be useful but only at 8%+. I definitely love my dual bodyfeeder kamas w lesser vampirism and the greater banes are extremely beneficial in epic runs.

[MrkGrismer]

a silver maul of banishing.

I'm surprised that works for you considering the horrid crit range on the maul (only on a 20).

I'm trying to find banishing scimitars (or kukris or hand axes) but they appear to be very rare :(

[Dandonk]

I'm trying to find banishing scimitars (or kukris or hand axes) but they appear to be very rare :(

That would be because banishing only exists on blunt or piercing weapons, not on slashing.

[Merlocke]

dont forget the restore pots.

[Gremmlynn]

So, how much of that stuff is actually needed to get completions and how much just makes it easier?

Heavy fort and deathward, sure. But it just shows poor game design when there are effects so unbalanced that gear that makes one immune to them is pretty much a necessity to play at a certain point IMO.

As for the rest, yes for some things like blindness and cursed wounds a counter is rather necessary. Though for normal curses it just seems better to live with it at least until all the curse spammers are down.

For others like featherfall and underwater action it more a matter of needing them, in some form, in some of the content.

The feats/enhancements part I agree with. It would be nice if the game had more of them and if some worked a bit smoother IMO.

Though for most of the list I'd have to say, they are things that would be nice to have, but I don't see how they are absolutely necessary to play.

[Rusty_Can]

I'm trying to find banishing scimitars (or kukris or hand axes) but they appear to be very rare :(


That would be because banishing only exists on blunt or piercing weapons, not on slashing.

Well.... technically, there is a slashing banishing weapon: Enduring Conviction (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Weapons/EnduringConviction.jpg).

[Strakeln]

Power 5? It depends on the melee. Both my barb and my 13/6/1 rogue kill things faster without power 5 weapons.

100 stack of haste potions? Sure, maybe... to get to the quest.

Disease immunity is a waste on a well-built barbarian. You'll save most of the time, and when you don't, there's a heal coming your way shortly (there always is if you're an FB barb).

Greensteel goggles are not a great idea for a melee. That's where Tharnes goggles go.

I stopped carrying UWA on my barb long ago. He can hold his breath for a really long time, and for the VERY rare cases that he runs out, no one can even see the difference on his HP bar.

I don't bother with a runspeed item, that's what all the haste pots are for. Same speed nowadays.

Weapons are all about greensteel now (we're talking high level, remember?). So don't bother trying to find specific weapon effects, build what you need.

Special effects like slowburst or crippling? Maybe for a low DPS toon. Messing around with effects like this on a high DPS toon just makes it take longer to drop the mob.

Elemental resistances often fit nicely on greensteel or DT items. Don't waste a cloak slot for a GFR cloak, have it as an additional effect on your GS or DT gear if you insist on having it on an item (there's a debate on that, for sure. I find that resist fire is always good to have, so I have that on an item - but other resists, I drink a pot or ask for a buff).

Level drain protection on an item... meh. Once you learn the game well enough, this is rarely an issue. I have both optic nerve and top tier SF necklace on my barb, but almost never use either. Beholders? Once you learn how to fight them, even getting your buffs dispelled is rare. For any other mobs, it's just too costly of a slot - I'm not going to take off my shintao set so I can wear the SF necklace. I'd say your best bet for this is to pick up two sets of Flesh Render Visors (~8 min DW clickie from TR). This will cover level drain 95% of the time, with the other 5% being when you're facing something like a beholder that can dispel it (again, learn to properly fight beholders).

OP, I think your advice is best suited for someone's first level 16-20 melee. When folks have been around a bit longer and have been able to acquire the right equipment, much of what you have posted changes.

[CR-Shadowborn]

I find for my Rogue that a TWF combo of a paralizer and a banisher works well for elementals but then i have weapon finess (piercing) and improved crit (piercing) and since my Rogue is a Drow using shortsword's and rapier's add's more bonuses to the damage and ability to hit.
Any Drow chrarcter should be a TWF focusing on shortsword and rapier's IMO the racial bonuses are just to good to ignore.
But i have not been playing online long so i could be totally wrong ;)

[Dandonk]

Well.... technically, there is a slashing banishing weapon: Enduring Conviction (http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Weapons/EnduringConviction.jpg).

True enough, although that one is not your common, every day drop.

[MaximusParthas]

Power 5? It depends on the melee. Both my barb and my 13/6/1 rogue kill things faster without power 5 weapons.

100 stack of haste potions? Sure, maybe... to get to the quest.

Disease immunity is a waste on a well-built barbarian. You'll save most of the time, and when you don't, there's a heal coming your way shortly (there always is if you're an FB barb).

Greensteel goggles are not a great idea for a melee. That's where Tharnes goggles go.

I stopped carrying UWA on my barb long ago. He can hold his breath for a really long time, and for the VERY rare cases that he runs out, no one can even see the difference on his HP bar.

I don't bother with a runspeed item, that's what all the haste pots are for. Same speed nowadays.

Weapons are all about greensteel now (we're talking high level, remember?). So don't bother trying to find specific weapon effects, build what you need.

Special effects like slowburst or crippling? Maybe for a low DPS toon. Messing around with effects like this on a high DPS toon just makes it take longer to drop the mob.

Elemental resistances often fit nicely on greensteel or DT items. Don't waste a cloak slot for a GFR cloak, have it as an additional effect on your GS or DT gear if you insist on having it on an item (there's a debate on that, for sure. I find that resist fire is always good to have, so I have that on an item - but other resists, I drink a pot or ask for a buff).

Level drain protection on an item... meh. Once you learn the game well enough, this is rarely an issue. I have both optic nerve and top tier SF necklace on my barb, but almost never use either. Beholders? Once you learn how to fight them, even getting your buffs dispelled is rare. For any other mobs, it's just too costly of a slot - I'm not going to take off my shintao set so I can wear the SF necklace. I'd say your best bet for this is to pick up two sets of Flesh Render Visors (~8 min DW clickie from TR). This will cover level drain 95% of the time, with the other 5% being when you're facing something like a beholder that can dispel it (again, learn to properly fight beholders).

OP, I think your advice is best suited for someone's first level 16-20 melee. When folks have been around a bit longer and have been able to acquire the right equipment, much of what you have posted changes.

sounds like your bragging about your collection and suggesting item collections or sets that some may never afford, own or find.
Your last statement was correct. This information is for new high lvl players 16-20
If your 3xTR's or have been 20 for 6-8-18 months you should already know this or have passed it for better options.
All about greensteel? maybe. Although there are always options.. I'll trade my greensteel for an esos in a heartbeat.

[MaximusParthas]

I'm surprised that works for you considering the horrid crit range on the maul (only on a 20).

I'm trying to find banishing scimitars (or kukris or hand axes) but they appear to be very rare :(

another weapon i rarely use. any ele other than shroud or epic goes down quick with the right choice of weapons. waiting for a failed save with a weak weapon is too slow for me. Demons and devils die quicker from vorpals than banishers.

[MrkGrismer]

That would be because banishing only exists on blunt or piercing weapons, not on slashing.

Ugh, I guess I should have looked into it first. Only as Abbott raid loot eh? And only a longsword :(

I guess I will stick with the rapier and shortsword for now, and maybe look for another rapier. Annoying tho since I have imp crit slash. :(

[Strakeln]

sounds like your bragging about your collection and suggesting item collections or sets that some may never afford, own or find.
It does? I re-read my post and counted a total of three items that I said I had (all necklaces, all easily obtained doing non-raid quests... hell, one can be obtained solely through piking). Oh, wait, I mentioned some goggles that can be obtained from TR. You know... Tangleroot, that quest we do at level 3?


I'll trade my greensteel for an esos in a heartbeat.
Now who is talking about items that some may never afford, own, or find?


This information is for new high lvl players 16-20
This information needs to be refined by experience. Come on, dude... you recommend that melees burn their hard-earned ingredients on GS goggles? You think people should wear deathblock and silver flame necklaces when instead you could say "pick up the visor of the flesh render guards every time you complete Tangleroot and they're offered as an end reward". That last bit is a HUGE piece of advice that I wish someone had given me when I started, and using it will save two item slots from your recommendations...

[Stitch78]

sounds like your bragging about your collection and suggesting item collections or sets that some may never afford, own or find.
Your last statement was correct. This information is for new high lvl players 16-20
If your 3xTR's or have been 20 for 6-8-18 months you should already know this or have passed it for better options.
All about greensteel? maybe. Although there are always options.. I'll trade my greensteel for an esos in a heartbeat.

Didn't sound like bragging so much as trying to supplement your post - and he did it in a fairly nice way, whereas others might have just completely ripped it apart. (Honestly, do you really need a stack of cure disease? Do you even need one?)

Also, there are TONS of useful things you can tote around, but with only 5 backpacks, you really can't carry everything you want. And some newbs might not have lucked into a portable hole and so only have 4...

[MaximusParthas]

Didn't sound like bragging so much as trying to supplement your post - and he did it in a fairly nice way, whereas others might have just completely ripped it apart. (Honestly, do you really need a stack of cure disease? Do you even need one?)

Also, there are TONS of useful things you can tote around, but with only 5 backpacks, you really can't carry everything you want. And some newbs might not have lucked into a portable hole and so only have 4...

no cure disease was mentioned.

[Calebro]

ICome on, dude... you recommend that melees burn their hard-earned ingredients on GS goggles?

That's the part that I never understood.
At all.
I mean, people swear by the immunity item (not even going to talk about the goggle slot for a melee, just the item). Why would you waste a bunch of larges on this? Everything that it makes you immune to is either cured by a potion or redundant if you put on your SF necklace (or click your Visor) situationally.
And yet people waste larges on this junk.

I just don't get it....

[MrkGrismer]

As a follow-up to what I posted earlier, it appears on Orien sellers believe that a banishing rapier is worth just as much as a mettaline kopesh of pure good. The prices for both are 125K plat and up. :( Yet a banishing short sword can be had for under 50k. I'm not sure I would agree that one more in the crit range is worth that much.

[Mercureal]

As a follow-up to what I posted earlier, it appears on Orien sellers believe that a banishing rapier is worth just as much as a mettaline kopesh of pure good. The prices for both are 125K plat and up. :( Yet a banishing short sword can be had for under 50k. I'm not sure I would agree that one more in the crit range is worth that much.

Banishing rapiers with improved critical are very nice, but maybe not at that price differential unless you have money to burn. I'd keep looking for one at a price you can afford though, the extra range does make a difference. Three critical hits with a rapier for every two you get with a shortsword or dagger really adds up over time, particularly when you're running around in the Vale.

[MaximusParthas]

That's the part that I never understood.
At all.
I mean, people swear by the immunity item (not even going to talk about the goggle slot for a melee, just the item). Why would you waste a bunch of larges on this? Everything that it makes you immune to is either cured by a potion or redundant if you put on your SF necklace (or click your Visor) situationally.
And yet people waste larges on this junk.

I just don't get it....

ha. i have a pair with all my immunities in one item. it frees up lots of space to wear other things i want instead of being forced to wear what I need. since I take care of my own ills often, it also allows me more creative versatility.
hard earned mats? man shfh. I've got a lot of friends who have 20+ completions. they're not that hard to get.

[sweez]

As a follow-up to what I posted earlier, it appears on Orien sellers believe that a banishing rapier is worth just as much as a mettaline kopesh of pure good. The prices for both are 125K plat and up. :( Yet a banishing short sword can be had for under 50k. I'm not sure I would agree that one more in the crit range is worth that much.

It makes a pretty big difference, weapon performance in this game heavily relies on crits. Wish I could get mets of pure good and banishing rapiers for 125kpp on the Khyber AH though. :p

[MaximusParthas]

That's the part that I never understood.
At all.
I mean, people swear by the immunity item (not even going to talk about the goggle slot for a melee, just the item). Why would you waste a bunch of larges on this? Everything that it makes you immune to is either cured by a potion or redundant if you put on your SF necklace (or click your Visor) situationally.
And yet people waste larges on this junk.

I just don't get it....

probably because you prefer not to 'get it'

fear, blindness, disease, poison, neg energy pro with an added bonus of deathblock and slay living guard.
you would rather carry around and hotbar 4 axtra pot stacks. Then wear at least 3 items to compensate for not having these immunities. now that's a waste. gear slots are rarer than feats.
Or do you prefer to be one of those types screaming out "Help I'm blinded!" can someone cure it?!" or "I lost 6 str from that poison. can i get a restore plz?"
As far as mats. they really aren't that hard to get. beg, borrow, trade, buy or farm.
but hey. i'm just speaking as a 'self sufficient/reliant' toon. not as another terminator clone from the assembly line.

[Astraghal]

An immunity item is a waste of ingredients and a gear slot.


Blindness - Potion
Disease - Potion
Fear - Planar Gird
Poison - Potion
Death - Visor of the Flesh Render Guards or Silver Flame Talisman


Use a generic disease immunity item while fighting mummies or devils if you're taking a lot of aggro.

Sooner or later, you will start making way more platinum than you will know what to do with.

Don't waste item slots, feats, skills or enhancements on what you can substitute platinum for.

Never waste a precious gear slot on something a potion or clicky can prevent or cure.

Potions are faster, easier and more efficient.


I would only consider making an immunity item purely for convenience while farming the desert, because I only carry 3 clickies of Deathward and Greater Heroism.

[Yagi]

sounds like your bragging about your collection and suggesting item collections or sets that some may never afford, own or find.
Your last statement was correct. This information is for new high lvl players 16-20
If your 3xTR's or have been 20 for 6-8-18 months you should already know this or have passed it for better options.
All about greensteel? maybe. Although there are always options.. I'll trade my greensteel for an esos in a heartbeat.

Nothing he mentioned is beyond the reach of a first character at all, he is not bragging.

Although I do disagree with him about the usefullness of a DB item, remember this is for new characters. Just because one person knows how to fight beholders doesnt mean that the rest of their group does or allows them to!

And you probably want to have a GS weapon to use while obtaining your esos, unless of course you do have a collection of rare and specific weapons.

[MrkGrismer]

Banishing rapiers with improved critical are very nice, but maybe not at that price differential unless you have money to burn. I'd keep looking for one at a price you can afford though, the extra range does make a difference. Three critical hits with a rapier for every two you get with a shortsword or dagger really adds up over time, particularly when you're running around in the Vale.

I've got a rapier AND a shortsword banisher on my Paladin (the one in my sig, who is 19th currently, not 17th). I either bought the rapier for much less then 125k or found it (can't remember which), as the only time my Paladin has had more then 125k plat is after selling a Large Devil Scale on the AH (needed the plat for a feat swap).

With imp crit would be nice, but my imp crit is in slash because that is what I use 90% of the time (kopesh).

I know everyone says that once you are 'high level' you have money coming out of your wazzoo but it hasn't happened on my Paladin yet, maybe at cap or when I do a lot more Shrouds ;)

[MrkGrismer]

It makes a pretty big difference, weapon performance in this game heavily relies on crits. Wish I could get mets of pure good and banishing rapiers for 125kpp on the Khyber AH though. :p

Plenty of room on Orien ;)

[corpman]

That would be because banishing only exists on blunt or piercing weapons, not on slashing.

run abbot and get enduring convictions :)

[ShortRanger]

As a primarily solo player that occasional plays in groups I find your list rather trivial and in some places contradictory to my play style.


I was inspired to write this from a post by Shade
"High level melee must have items checklist" (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3333970#post3333970)

the 'how the heck did you get to level 16 and not have these?!" list
featherfall
heavy fortification
deathblock
underwater action
+25-30 run item



Mostly agree with this block:
As a soloist I find the extra speed get's me killed because of lack of movement control. If there was one spell that I would like to be able to refuse from casters it is Haste followed by jump.....




The 'these guys are well equiped' list of clickies & powers.
If you can do this yourself when needed it's definitely a bonus and odds are your a real survivor/slayer.
Seeker
blur
stoneskin
raise dead
displacement
jump
ghost touch
(greater)destruction

know and use your feats/enhancements properly and quickly.
haste/skill boosts
dodge
cleave/greater cleave
(improved)
trip
sunder
stun
rage

finally know what works on who and use it appropriately.
crippling
tendon slice
slowburst
deception
vertigo
enfeebling
bonebreaking
wounding



Jump and haste pots or clickies are nice. Prefer Pots because they are short duration so don't mess with precision control for as long. The rest I could care less about. I run a holy-paralizer in one hand and an elemental damage in the other. While you are worried about slowing them I just Paralyze them and kill them. I haven't used ghost touch in several levels and am debating about putting it in the bank to clear pack space.

I tend to stealth in and drop everything then move on. Just my play style. I do not need to run from point killing things. I like a slow pace so that I can enjoy the Game and its environs.