New player, new rogue.

[DarktideIII]

Hello,
I just started playing a couple weeks ago, I have a 6 Monk, 4 Sorc and a 5 Rogue. I wanted to rebuild my Rogue and use a custom template, instead of the default paths available that I chosen before now. I downloaded a character editor and worked on a Warforged Rogue that I like and now I'm asking if you(s) could comment and critique my template. Please, I am new to D&D rules, and I probably messed up and missed something, but don't go easy on me & thank you for reading.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
(20 Rogue)
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 19
Will: 4

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 14 14 14
Dexterity 16 22 25
Constitution 16 16 18
Intelligence 14 14 14
Wisdom 6 6 6
Charisma 6 6 6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 7 30 30
Bluff -2 -2 0
Concentration 3 4 4
Diplomacy -2 -2 -2
Disable Device 6 25 25
Haggle 0 3 3
Heal -2 -2 -2
Hide 7 30 34
Intimidate -2 -2 -2
Jump 4 24 24
Listen -2 -2 -2
Move Silently 7 30 34
Open Lock 7 30 30
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 6 18 18
Search 6 25 25
Spot 2 21 21
Swim 2 2 2
Tumble 4 10 10
Use Magic Device 1 21 21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX




I'm just looking for a regular Rogue, with enough trap skills to do 1-20 on Elite. I think I really messed up though, as a Warforged - is it okey that I didn't take the Level 1 only Feats for WF Armor? If I should take it, what should I replace?

Also I contemplated going two-handed weapons and a more strength based build which would compliment my original RP background of my character Zensun, ... but I'm unsure if it's worth giving up those off-hand sneak attacks, if I did go Two-Hand, how would my feats look? 3 2H Feats, Improved Crit: Slashing, Power Attack?, Toughness?, Exotic: Greatsword ( or anything preferred besides Great Axes, Axes), and WF Heavy Armor?

[PresentTense]

Pretty good overall. Yay for constitution! Still, there are a couple things you can do to improve this.

In your skills, you want to have max ranks in use magic device, disable device, search, and, as a newer player, spot. Pull the points out of repair to allow for this, as it makes very little difference and you have better places to spend them. I also noticed you have no ranks in diplomacy. This is a bread and butter skill for a rogue, as it allows you to shift aggro away from yourself. You'll want max ranks here as well. Open lock does not need to be maxed, as none of the locks in the game are particularly hard to open and you can try as many times as you want. You could also pull out of tumble. If you're coming up short on points, consider dropping hide and move silently. They may fit the flavor of the class, but they are only situationally useful and the rest of the party will generally end up running ahead of you anyway when you turn sneak mode on.

For your stats, I would recommend being a strength rogue, as it will greatly increase your dps. If you decide to drop hide and move silently, you can drop your intelligence to 10 - you'll still have enough skill points to cover the basics - and raise your strength to 16. Put your levels into strength as well. Yes, you will take a hit on your reflex save, but it will be ridiculous anyway. This will also give you a feat back - no need for weapon finesse - which you could use for khopesh proficiency. As a newer player, those might be a little expensive, but they're not too much worse than rapiers. Another option would be to drop your dex to 15 and go with a intel of 12 and a strength of 16. You would need a +2 dex tome to qualify for the whole two-weapon fighting line, but they're not as rare or expensive as they may seem right now.

Speaking of feats, defensive roll is pretty useless. With the new update, you'll have the ability to take the new class feat opportunist, which gives you a 3 percent chance to doublestrike. Much better. Also, move toughness much earlier, either at level 1 or 3. Don't worry about the lack of a body feat, as your AC won't matter anyway. Oh, and for your last feat, instead of weapon focus, consider taking skill focus: UMD at level 18. You'll be able to throw your own reconstruct scrolls at that point. Power attack would also be a good option. But I would stick with two weapon fighting, even if you go with a strength build. The base stats are a little tighter, but it works.

[DarktideIII]

Thanks PresentTense,
I didn't know about the resurrection scrolls ( about how much UMD does one need to cast it? ). I changed up my enchantments so that I think I can get around 28 with just base UMD and Rogue: Skill Boost. Plus is there items I could toggle?

I took repair down, and the few points I point into haggle, raised up my Diplomacy. I like your idea of a Strength based Rogue a lot. I'm highly depending on getting a +2 Tome, but if it comes down to it I'll just buy it from DDO store, but I bet I will have enough money by the time I need it, level 11 by latest... I got a thing about Khopesh's.. and I can't use them so I replaced with Bastard Sword, even though I realize it is 2x, not 3x. I'm undecided about weather to take Critical Slashing or PA.

Thanks again, here's the current rebuild.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Warforged Male
(20 Rogue)
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 16
Will: 4

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 6 6
Charisma 6 6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 29
Bluff -2 6
Concentration 3 6
Diplomacy 1 10
Disable Device 5 25
Haggle -2 0
Heal -2 0
Hide 6 37
Intimidate -2 0
Jump 3 18
Listen -2 0
Move Silently 6 37
Open Lock 6 26
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 5
Search 5 26
Spot 2 23
Swim 3 7
Tumble 3 9
Use Magic Device 2 24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 8 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Repair (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 12 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III


Level 20 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost IV
Enhancement: Rogue Cheat Death
Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I

[PresentTense]

Even on a strength rogue, rapiers are a better choice than bastard swords, which are terrible. I know how you feel about khopeshes - I actually don't have any characters that use them either. I have two two-weapon fighters, one who uses warhammers and one who uses rapiers. This would also save you the feat, allowing you to take both skill focus: UMD and power attack.

The UMD check on a reconstruct scroll is 40, the same as a heal scroll. With a starting cha of 6, a +6 cha item and 23 ranks, you're at 24, which is a good base and will let you use race-required items. To max it, you'd need some gear - with a +6 cha skills shroud item, Seven Fingered Gloves (+5 UMD, highest available UMD bonus) and some extra cha (+2 tome, +2 exceptional) you'd be at 37, and that's without a skill boost if you have the enhancement line. That 37 is a 85 percent chance of success - with skill focus: UMD you'd be at 40. UMD will also give you access to a large number of other scrolls and wands as you progress through the game.

I would still recommend maxing diplomacy at the expense of jump, tumble and swim. The jump spell (+30 jump) should be offered any time it is necessary, and the game caps at +40. There's no difference in height between a character with a +40 jump and a character with a +70. Other than just wanting to swim faster, a high swim is useful in exactly one quest in the game, so it's not worth even the few ranks you're putting into it.

Oh, and I saw you did your enhancements that time around. Looks good. Remember that the alternative rogue capstone is much better - +4d6 sneak attack - but I know only the newest version of the character planner allows you to select it. Also, try to get haste boost IV and subtle backstabbing IV, maybe at the expense of a level or two of skill boost or faster sneaking. But enhancements matter less, as you can reset them any time. Looks like you're on the right path!

[Tsuarok]

Don't worry about the tome. They go for about 200-250 k (on Orion) which is very easy to obtain by the time you need it. I'd like to 2nd that you shouldn't go for Bastard Swords. They're just not very good. Rapiers are free for rouges, use them if you don't want to use a khopesh. Exchange it for Power Attack. Most of the time you will hit with PA on, and when you are using it, it is like adding +10 Str. I can't really imagine meleeing without it.

[Arkadios]

Something i noticed in the second one, it doesn't look like you've maxed search or disable device, looks like a good strong build though.

On the weapons note i prefer rapiers over everything except kopesh's if i can get them. With a IC peircing and a seeker item these are a nice choice

[destiny4405]

you could also take IC:Piercing than make MinII weapons and than switch IC with power attack.

[Meretrix]

Are you certain that tomes count towards qualifying for feats? I could of sworn they don't...

[PresentTense]

Tomes and level-up increases are the only things other than your base stats that count toward feats because they are the only things that are permanent.

Oh, and IC:P is generally important to keep on a rogue because at least one of your weapons will be a radiance rapier - it blinds enemies on critical hits, making them vulnerable to sneak attacks - which will not have keen on it.

[Meretrix]

Tomes and level-up increases are the only things other than your base stats that count toward feats because they are the only things that are permanent.

Ahh yes, I was thinking of stats from enhancements. thanks for clearing that up.

[DarktideIII]

Reworked it, made him and level 3 so far. Going well.

Edit: Ah, well I forgot to save it haha, build was here... Have more diplo now, and PA.