Arcane Archer: the anti-wipe

[tjaysteno]

I just finished an elite run on a quest in gianthold (forget the quest name, it's in the Aurum camp though) with a group with...poor cohesion we'll say. We struggled through the relatively short quest quest and by the time we got to the boss fight our healer had no sp, no shrine, and the party had a few hurting pretty badly for hp. So naturally while the healer and I tried to get them to regroup, they each trickled into the room one at a time. Frustrated, but determined to finish the dumb quest I charged in guns blazing. I chipped away at the bosses health from a safe distance while the rest of my party just got worked; by the end of my multi shot everyone else was dead. I grabbed the few stones not in the pit with the boss and ran them back to the shrine. When I got back multi shot was charged up again so I let loose and took him out nearly single-handedly.

So why should you all care? I think this illustrates the biggest strength of the arcane archer; the ability to help groups avoid getting wiped. Barbarians do massive damage, but they have to close with the target. Sorcerers can also do crazy damage, but once they run out of sp and shrines, they're dead weight more or less. Arcane archer DPS is unique in that it's respectable, ranged, and infinite.

Add to this the AA's spell list, jump, resist energy, and FoM in particular. Few other classes can run through sleet storms/grease/etc with ease, jump like a frog onto a broken pillar, unload massive DPS from range on a single target (and anything in between), retreat (if the party's in trouble) and repeat for as long as it takes. If the party is completely wiped it's a simple matter to pull back into the last room, buff yourself with resist energy and sprint through the room grabbing stones.

So all that to say the correctly-played AA is an incredible asset for those especially long, tough quests where wipes are likely.

EDIT: Unless there are many beholders or casters who use dispell. Quite the drain on sp.

EDIT2: Or fricking golems... DR and immunity to acid, fire, and force? Come on!

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Actually, I think you proved the power of Evasion... :D




But, yeah, I agree with you.
Just not so much about that quest.

[AltheaSteelrain]

I low to pew pew while the big boys make us lose the 10% bonus :P

[tjaysteno]

Actually, I think you proved the power of Evasion... :D

Ha! Yeah I suppose in that case you're right. Though I was the only one able to take out the enemy rangers. There have been other times too, I just can't remember them.

[NaturalHazard]

What about tempests?

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Ha! Yeah I suppose in that case you're right. Though I was the only one able to take out the enemy rangers. There have been other times too, I just can't remember them.

The ability to damage something at a distance, is very powerful....and often overlooked, and underestimated.

And Manyshot does do some great DPS.

Add all the other great thngs about Rangers and you have a powerful class.




But most people see that just about any quest in the game can be solved with enough DPS, HP, and healing.

I find though that most groups lack enough of those to power through every quest...and I find the Ranger's strengths to really shine when more traditional methods fail.

[Gladiator_206]

Yes, tactics wise a AA can be very fun and rewarding to play.
Might not be "top deeps" in some peoples minds,
but id be hard pressed to trade my AA away.

Good post.


Lots of AA players can do what others can't... play smart :)
As stated above, AA's shine were others fail.

[sephiroth1084]

Well, while this proves that Evasion + Manyshot is a powerful combo, it does nothing to prove that you should have been an AA over a Tempest ranger.

[phalaeo]

Might not be "top deeps" in some peoples minds

I'm glad that someone else calls DPS "Deeps". :p

[smithtj3]

Well, while this proves that Evasion + Manyshot is a powerful combo, it does nothing to prove that you should have been an AA over a Tempest ranger.

I think the OP is trying to say that using ranged combat (i.e. the AA attributes) is what won the battle. It would be misleading to say you defeated the end boss solo and all you are is just a silly Tempest Ranger neglecting to mention any use of a bow, when in actuality you blasted him with a bow the entire time using AA enhancements. Plus you would have to be Elven Tempest Ranger for that to work while an AA of any race could have done what the OP accomplished.

[Hadrian]

I think the OP is trying to say that using ranged combat (i.e. the AA attributes) is what won the battle. It would be misleading to say you defeated the end boss solo and all you are is just a silly Tempest Ranger neglecting to mention any use of a bow, when in actuality you blasted him with a bow the entire time using AA enhancements. Plus you would have to be Elven Tempest Ranger for that to work while an AA of any race could have done what the OP accomplished.

All rangers get manyshot, tempest, AA or otherwise.

[smithtj3]

All rangers get manyshot, tempest, AA or otherwise.

You are right. I didn't say that manyshot was only an AA feat. . . considering it's an enhancement line that wouldn't even make sense. What I DID say was that the OP's use of ranged combat is what got the dungeon done, not TWF it into submission.

[Aranticus]

Huh? My tempest could solo the whole quest but it still doesn't prove anything. The only thing u proved is you're a better player than the rest of your party

[Merlocke]

It's also possible that since there was less DPS on the boss, the end fight dragged on longer than needed to, causing the wipe. (due to one guy standing in the back plinking)

But I dont know as I wasn't there.

[SiliconShadow]

How about a hard shroud, one healer lags out as the blades hit, the call was made to stay in but not enough healing happens and everyone except one healer and the AA is left, the healer then gets nailed by the adds after harry flies the coupe, 25% of the raid leave while the rest sit and watch for 15 minutes as a single AA stays alive shouting 5%, 2% back up a little almost got it, then suddenly harry dies.

This is because with precise shot and carefully planned many shot strafing round he took out all the gnolls and did so much damage to harry after 2 further rounds he died. Taking the adds out inbetween, self healing self buffing.

Rare? No I know several AA who have done this.

Wipe saves are an AA's top strength with evasion, self buffs, self heals and unforgiving attacks, when everything else runs out they go like the energizer bunny.

Personal wipe saves:
Big top epic - Soloed the end boss and 5 adds
Harry on both parts
...

However it is wise to note a BAD AA can cause wipes by pully aoe mobs through the party ie in VOD, so knowing when and where to nuke is a AAs real asset, you can take your buffs, your evasion and your many shot, if you don't know when you should be attacking and how fast, then learn or go mellee.

[Loftus]

I love my Arcane Archer she has outkilled and outlived fighters from our guild for a long time. The only thing I would like to see is either take away the cool down period for manyshot altogether or shorten it up a lot. It is an ability and you should be able to use it as wanted it's not like it's a spell effect that you need spell points for. Also a side note I will not reincarnate my AA because she is way to good to do that to and I will just hold on to her until the day they stop the madness and allow past level 20. You see it any most if not all other games out there and look at LOTRO another game by the same company and it doesn't cap you at level 20. Also the monsters certainly don't cap out at 20 for dc, so what gives?

[NaturalHazard]

[QUOTE=SiliconShadow;3329442]How about a hard shroud, one healer lags out as the blades hit, the call was made to stay in but not enough healing happens and everyone except one healer and the AA is left, the healer then gets nailed by the adds after harry flies the coupe, 25% of the raid leave while the rest sit and watch for 15 minutes as a single AA stays alive shouting 5%, 2% back up a little almost got it, then suddenly harry dies.

This is because with precise shot and carefully planned many shot strafing round he took out all the gnolls and did so much damage to harry after 2 further rounds he died. Taking the adds out inbetween, self healing self buffing.

Rare? No I know several AA who have done this.

Wipe saves are an AA's top strength with evasion, self buffs, self heals and unforgiving attacks, when everything else runs out they go like the energizer bunny.

"Ive done this on my gimpy tempest on shroud elite and ive seen other tempests save wipes like this, in fact ive seen rogues and monks also save wipes. I never knew that wipe saves where the provision of AA's only I will remember that next time im last guy left standing on anything but an AA and dc straight away cause im not an AA".

I know they can be good in this role unfortunately i have never seen an AA as the last guy standing often they are the first guy to go down. "often cause of the poor quality of the player not the AA enhancement line.

[Aashrym]

I think the OP is trying to say that using ranged combat (i.e. the AA attributes) is what won the battle. It would be misleading to say you defeated the end boss solo and all you are is just a silly Tempest Ranger neglecting to mention any use of a bow, when in actuality you blasted him with a bow the entire time using AA enhancements. Plus you would have to be Elven Tempest Ranger for that to work while an AA of any race could have done what the OP accomplished.

Okay, I'll bite... why would the tempest ranger need to be an Elf or use an arcane archer of any race?

[tjaysteno]

I'm loving the discussion! Give the AA some love!


It's also possible that since there was less DPS on the boss, the end fight dragged on longer than needed to, causing the wipe. (due to one guy standing in the back plinking)

But I dont know as I wasn't there.

That's definitely the case, though not because of me. I was second in kills. The problem was sucky builds in the party. We had a rogue that called himself an assassin that couldn't do traps OR get kills. The healer did what he could, but I think he was a battle cleric not a focused healer. Personally though, even in these awkward levels while I build up towards Slaying Arrows I find myself leading or in a close second for kills in quests when I make that my focus. For an idea, multi shot gives me 72 arrows in 20 seconds, each doing roughly 1d10+19+1d6 [acid]+2d4 [acid]+2d6 [holy]+6 [on FE]. 17-20/x3 crits. Add to that Imp. Precise Shot and properly positioned AA can take out most mobs before the DPS can get to them. Well, except when multi shot is recharging.

Which is where the paralyzing bow comes in. And of course there's little the tanks like more than an archer with a paralyzing bow! All that to say, I'm confident I was pulling my weight. ;)


How about a hard shroud, one healer lags out as the blades hit, the call was made to stay in but not enough healing happens and everyone except one healer and the AA is left, the healer then gets nailed by the adds after harry flies the coupe, 25% of the raid leave while the rest sit and watch for 15 minutes as a single AA stays alive shouting 5%, 2% back up a little almost got it, then suddenly harry dies.

This is because with precise shot and carefully planned many shot strafing round he took out all the gnolls and did so much damage to harry after 2 further rounds he died. Taking the adds out inbetween, self healing self buffing.

Rare? No I know several AA who have done this.

Wipe saves are an AA's top strength with evasion, self buffs, self heals and unforgiving attacks, when everything else runs out they go like the energizer bunny.

Well said. :) I understand why so many people don't trust AA builds; it's an easy PrE to get wrong. And even if you build it right you can still play it wrong. That having been said you've illustrated perfectly how vital an asset they can be in the right hands.


Okay, I'll bite... why would the tempest ranger need to be an Elf or use an arcane archer of any race?

What I'm talking about isn't as much about abilities (feats, imbue arrow, spells, etc) as it is about a style of play. Tempests have a tendency to close to melee before expending multi shot. In this instance that would've likely proved fatal since Tempests are not noted for their AC or HP. The reason I survived was because I kept my distance. So to answer your question you wouldn't need to be an Elf or have AA enhancements. Investment in AA implies a different style of gameplay from the dual axe-wielding dwarf, but that doesn't preclude the dwarf from using similar tactics.

[Antheal]

Add to this the AA's spell list, jump, resist energy, and FoM in particular.

No.

That's the Ranger spell list. Not all Arcane Archers are Rangers.

[Hadrian]

You are right. I didn't say that manyshot was only an AA feat. . . considering it's an enhancement line that wouldn't even make sense. What I DID say was that the OP's use of ranged combat is what got the dungeon done, not TWF it into submission.

The point is, you don't have to be an AA to kill things with a bow. Anyone call pull out a bow and shoot things, although it will take longer. Since all rangers get manyshot, it wouldn't really take a tempest that much longer to do the same thing.

[Aranticus]

How about a hard shroud, one healer lags out as the blades hit, the call was made to stay in but not enough healing happens and everyone except one healer and the AA is left, the healer then gets nailed by the adds after harry flies the coupe, 25% of the raid leave while the rest sit and watch for 15 minutes as a single AA stays alive shouting 5%, 2% back up a little almost got it, then suddenly harry dies.

This is because with precise shot and carefully planned many shot strafing round he took out all the gnolls and did so much damage to harry after 2 further rounds he died. Taking the adds out inbetween, self healing self buffing.

Rare? No I know several AA who have done this.

Wipe saves are an AA's top strength with evasion, self buffs, self heals and unforgiving attacks, when everything else runs out they go like the energizer bunny.

Personal wipe saves:
Big top epic - Soloed the end boss and 5 adds
Harry on both parts
...

However it is wise to note a BAD AA can cause wipes by pully aoe mobs through the party ie in VOD, so knowing when and where to nuke is a AAs real asset, you can take your buffs, your evasion and your many shot, if you don't know when you should be attacking and how fast, then learn or go mellee.

AAs are good at saving wipes if it doesnt involve a mob that can get into melee distance with you at an instant (or the amount of time that it takes for you to kill it)

in case anyone says i'm a AA hater, i play an AA too and i know the limits of ranging. i have also soloed exclusively from L1-12 with a bow ranger

[SiliconShadow]

Ive done this on my gimpy tempest on shroud elite and ive seen other tempests save wipes like this, in fact ive seen rogues and monks also save wipes. I never knew that wipe saves where the provision of AA's only I will remember that next time im last guy left standing on anything but an AA and dc straight away cause im not an AA".

I know they can be good in this role unfortunately i have never seen an AA as the last guy standing often they are the first guy to go down. "often cause of the poor quality of the player not the AA enhancement line.

Taken the last 5% off harry on your without a healer? Or more even, some AA have taken him solo completely? Taken an epic boss down solo?

Vids please.

[smithtj3]

Okay, I'll bite... why would the tempest ranger need to be an Elf or use an arcane archer of any race?

Yeah, I was drunk when I wrote that. What I THINK I was shooting for was that any ranger can do it BUT you have to be an elf to get the AA line if you aren't a ranger. I keep shooting for those stars. . . and yet I fall so far.

[smithtj3]

The point is, you don't have to be an AA to kill things with a bow. Anyone call pull out a bow and shoot things, although it will take longer. Since all rangers get manyshot, it wouldn't really take a tempest that much longer to do the same thing.

It depends on the level of the ranger but assuming the AA hasn't gotten some of the more powerful imbue abilities, I agree with you.

[Dylvish]

The point is, you don't have to be an AA to kill things with a bow. Anyone call pull out a bow and shoot things, although it will take longer. Since all rangers get manyshot, it wouldn't really take a tempest that much longer to do the same thing.

Kind of a catch 22, no? By the same argument, you dont have to be Tempest to kill things with melee. Anyone can pull out a wepon and start swinging at things, although it will take longer. SInce all rangers get full TWF feats, it really wouldnt take AA that much longer to do the same thing.

Tempest gets bonuses with twf, and AA gets bonuses with bow and more damaging arrows (slayer in particular), so the time involved in 'will take longer' can be noticeable however.

-Im not picking a particular side, I'm just pointing out that comment is a rather circular argument.

[Hadrian]

Kind of a catch 22, no? By the same argument, you dont have to be Tempest to kill things with melee. Anyone can pull out a wepon and start swinging at things, although it will take longer. SInce all rangers get full TWF feats, it really wouldnt take AA that much longer to do the same thing.

Tempest gets bonuses with twf, and AA gets bonuses with bow and more damaging arrows (slayer in particular), so the time involved in 'will take longer' can be noticeable however.

-Im not picking a particular side, I'm just pointing out that comment is a rather circular argument.

It is a circular argumet, and it makes little sense to read that into what I wrote. To say that any ranger can be effective with a bow is not implying that only tempest rangers can melee in all of ddo.

Of course others can and do melee. The same holds for archery.

I am trying to point out that you shouldn't attribute tactical choices that anyone can apply as a class/PrE exclusive ability simply because the build is optimized for it. In essence, it's just as ridiculous as your intentionally absurd example above. So it looks like we agree that such a thing is ridiculous, but I am not sure why you chose to say that to me instead of the people commiting the error.

Edit: finishing my thought now that I have a keyboard instead of a virtual phone touch pad.

[kernal42]

Rare? No I know several AA who have done this.


I've done this on my Tempest Ranger too. You really don't need to be AA to save a group from a wipe by using ranged tactics.

-Kernal

[Tom318]

But most people see that just about any quest in the game can be solved with enough DPS, HP, and healing.

That's what I've been saying for a while... for the most part every class other than Barb is obsolete. Six Barbs with enough healing can do most of the quests.

[NaturalHazard]

Taken the last 5% off harry on your without a healer? Or more even, some AA have taken him solo completely? Taken an epic boss down solo?

Vids please.

ive taken the last 3% off elite harry on my own, and i was healing myself with my tempest ranger, and yes i first hit manyshot then meleed him, no i dont have screen shots or videos,

Im sure other people have used tempest rangers to all the things you mentioned above, since your so interested go and waste your time to search them all up.

[sirdanile]

Rangers in general have high survivability in situations that would kill many other party members... the only difference is that an Arcane Archer has the ability to deal some damage as well as surviving, now a tempest can pull out a bow yes... but they may run out of arrows. Even if they have a lot of arrows they still deal less damage overall making them need to survive longer.

In fact the only class with survivability on par with a well played Ranger would have to be a well played monk or possibly even an ac tank.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

That's what I've been saying for a while... for the most part every class other than Barb is obsolete. Six Barbs with enough healing can do most of the quests.

Yes, sorta....but it's not that simple.


And for the sake of argument, what quest do you think that six Rangers cannot complete with little healing required?

[Dylvish]

I am trying to point out that you shouldn't attribute tactical choices that anyone can apply as a class/PrE exclusive ability simply because the build is optimized for it.

Now that, is clear and concise. And I do agree with you 100%



In essence, it's just as ridiculous as your intentionally absurd example above. So it looks like we agree that such a thing is ridiculous, but I am not sure why you chose to say that to me instead of the people commiting the error.

Simply because it came across as just that, instead of putting in the first comment, which would have been much more constructive (although if you did indeed post similar to the opening line in a previous post, and I missed it, you have my appologies).


Edit: finishing my thought now that I have a keyboard instead of a virtual phone touch pad.

Ugh, I gave up on those. I just wait till I get home usually, then post a big batch of collected replies. :)

[Hadrian]

Simply because it came across as just that, instead of putting in the first comment, which would have been much more constructive.

To point out that anyone is capable of using a bow, and that such a thing isn't only for the AA, wouldn't lead most people where you went with the discussion. I don't see how that could be considered what you seem to be accusing.

If a post seems ridiculous to you, read it a second time before you try to jump on someone about it. Maybe you've just missed the point.