UMD-Spell failure-divine spells

[Bacab]

Lets say a paladin is wearing full plate and they have UMD.

Do they have to pass an "Arcane Spell Failure Check" on a UMD check even if the scroll is a Divine Scroll (Heal)?

[Matuse]

Scrolls don't have armor check penalties.

[Bacab]

Scrolls don't have armor check penalties.

Are you sure?

I have failed to get off a Fire Shield on my WF FVS due to Arcane Check Penalty (the 5% from composite plate)

I know a FVS or CLR can UMD heal scrolls NP.

I am curious if a PLD in FP can do the same...

[blitzschlag]

Are you sure?

I have failed to get off a Fire Shield on my WF FVS due to Arcane Check Penalty (the 5% from composite plate)

I know a FVS or CLR can UMD heal scrolls NP.

I am curious if a PLD in FP can do the same...

you don't have to umd scrolls you can cast the spell of. if underlevel its a chance thats not influenced by umd...

you do need to make a asf-check for arcane scrolls though. exception is the bard and the arcane spells he can cast

[MajinSensei]

Are you sure?

I have failed to get off a Fire Shield on my WF FVS due to Arcane Check Penalty (the 5% from composite plate)

I know a FVS or CLR can UMD heal scrolls NP.

I am curious if a PLD in FP can do the same...

I have subscribed to this thread for this exact question.

My intim tank has 150% chance to use a Fire shield scroll and I also got the arcane failure message most of the time

[maha0201]

Scrolls don't have armor check penalties.

Acrane scrolls do XD manage to fail fire shield scroll ( my UMD is high enough for no fail lvl IV spells ) on my caped rog in BP of destruction :S

[Bacab]

Yeah...the other reason is this...

Paladins can cast divine spells...but not Heal.

Can a Paladin in full plate UMD a *heal* scroll?

Part of me says "yes" because Heal is a divine spell (generally no arcane spell failure on divine spells).

Part of me says "no" because Heal is not native to Paladin and UMD is a ROG/BRD skill (seems kinda arcaney to me).

I may just need to pester my guildies and have one give it a shot or ask em.

So maybe a ROG in FP can try to UMD a *heal* scroll? That may give us our answer...but then again...ROG lacks Native Divine spells

[voodoogroves]

So, on Macksheen I've discovered that if I use a scroll that may be a bard spell but also a cleric spell, there is no ASF check. Mack can carry an adamantine tower shield and use CMW-Mass scrolls with no check for UMD (since it is on his list) and no ASF.

Same if he UMDs a heal scroll. If he UMDs a Fire Shield scroll though, there is a check.

I can verify here in just a few...

[Kriogen]

...
Can a Paladin in full plate UMD a *heal* scroll?

Yes. Heal is divine so no ASF.

Arcane scrolls do have ASF. Atleast the last time I checked. The one scrolls that have "somatic" part. So not all arcane spells/scrolls have ASF check.

The last time I checked (ranger/rogue in armor with max UMD), no ASF for Heal/Raise, but I did got ASF check for Greater Teleport/Heroim scroll.

[voodoogroves]

Macksheen - Ftr2/Bard18 ... with tower shield


Heal Scroll - no ASF check, UMD check only
Cure Moderate, Mass - no ASF check, no UMD check (on bard list)
Stoneskin - UMD check AND ASF check (wiz/sorc spell only)
Mass Bulls Strength - UMD check, no ASF check (cleric, fvs and wiz/sorc spell ... not on bard list)
Invisibility - No UMD check, ASF check (wiz/sorc and bard list)


The point about components is partially valid; scrolls are spell completion items. That said, a spell that was "divine" would not have ASF even if it did require somatic components. I think that's the tricky, unsure bit. I know I can cast blur and displacement w/o ASF because they are verbal only (and can confirm this).

[k1ngp1n]

Yes. Heal is divine so no ASF.

Arcane scrolls do have ASF. Atleast the last time I checked. The one scrolls that have "somatic" part. So not all arcane spells/scrolls have ASF check.

The last time I checked (ranger/rogue in armor with max UMD), no ASF for Heal/Raise, but I did got ASF check for Greater Teleport/Heroim scroll.

This. If its a divine scroll, it won't have ASF. If its an arcane scroll, it will.

[voodoogroves]

This. If its a divine scroll, it won't have ASF. If its an arcane scroll, it will.

The trick is how DDO implements spells which are both.

[Junts]

Only arcane spells with a somatic component have arcane failure. You cannot get arcane failure on a scroll of heal.


In general, DDO seems to default to the clerical versions of scrolls for spells like true seeing; however, there are only very few crossover spells with somatic components.

[voodoogroves]

Only arcane spells with a somatic component have arcane failure. You cannot get arcane failure on a scroll of heal.


In general, DDO seems to default to the clerical versions of scrolls for spells like true seeing; however, there are only very few crossover spells with somatic components.

Yeah and I don't have the patience to check them all.

Somewhere I do have a list of the non-somatic SRD spells. Somewhere.

[Bacab]

Man, this has been helpful...

So you can say really a Fleshy PLD has another Advantage over WF (heal vs reconstruct with a shield being used)

[blitzschlag]

Man, this has been helpful...

So you can say really a Fleshy PLD has another Advantage over WF (heal vs reconstruct with a shield being used)

its not that huuge, really.

you most likely have not enough concentration to use scrolls in combat anyway. when outside of combat you can sheathe your shield and put on a arcane sigil docent to use reconstruct more reliably. lots of clicking around for sure. but you usually have to at least put on an umd item to better your chances anyway...

[Bacab]

its not that huuge, really.

you most likely have not enough concentration to use scrolls in combat anyway. when outside of combat you can sheathe your shield and put on a arcane sigil docent to use reconstruct more reliably. lots of clicking around for sure. but you usually have to at least put on an umd item to better your chances anyway...

good point