Ran 1st hireling: wasn't to bad-there is a learning curve

[Darconeious]

First time hireling user, checked some posts in this section , was almost discouraged from using a hireling, but knew I need to learn to play with one to get the full experience of the game.
Few things-
1- how do you get them to pull a lever?
2- I have 1 hot bar, where are the rest of there abilities? Surely at lv 9 they have more options than the 6/7 commands and 3 abilities.
3- is there access to there stats ?
4- question # 2- if so how do you shuffle there hot bar?
I ran with a 9th lv pal. She worked out pretty well, seemed alittle under buffed for a at lv, I have a 6 th lv pal that is better buffed, but over all held her own quite well. There is some what of a learning curve with using hirelings, quest time was quite abit slower which is ok, one thing that was aggravating going in and out of caves , always had to hit the (T) to get my toon to swing otherwise he just stood there , like I said there is a learning curve here. Any help or suggestion would help, I know absolutely nothing about hirelings . Thanks again I arcade .

[holfrar]

1. highlight the lever/rune then click the icon with a couple of cogs on, on their hot bar (about the 4th one in)

2. Hirelings do have other abilities but you can only tell them to use the ones on the hotbar i'm afraid

3. nope

4. you cannot

hirelings will use more abilities if you toggle them to 'act on their own' if you have a cleric one for instance, they use searing light alot, even though it's not 'hot barred'.

as to which to use, it depends on what class you are.
If you are melee, then get a cleric and just leave them on 'protect you'
if you are a cleric/mage, get a melee and set them to 'act accordingly'
(this is set by the second/third button IIRC, but just hover mouse over the icon it will tell you what they do)

[AZgreentea]

Little tip, some hirelings are smarter/more responsive than others. I'm not really sure what the difference in their AI is, but you can get class of hireling at one lvl to be really great, and one lvl up, the next hireling is a moron. That happens to me a lot with Fighters/Clerics in aggro mode. For example the lvl 4 fighter is really responsive and loves to join the fight. The lvl 5 fighter hireling will just kinda stand there sometimes.

You can make a hireling interact with things you can interact with by targeting it and clicking their gear button. This works for any intractable, so if there is a rune with a stat you cant use (like int) and you have a wiz hireling, you can make them use it. Or, like I do sometimes, if you passed the lever you needed and you can still see it, just send the hireling to use it. :o

Of special note, here are the changes coming with U7. Stuff you might like is in green:


Hirelings

Hireling Caster AI Improvements



Cleric and Favored Soul hirelings will now automatically remove status effects such as curses, diseases and poisons from their masters if they are a high enough level to do so.
If a monster is immune to certain damage types, hirelings will not cast a spell that generates that damage type.

General Changes



Hireling contract timers will now pause when in a public area.
Your own hirelings will no longer show "Hireling of..." under their name, and instead will just show "Hireling". Other players hirelings will still show "Hireling of...".
Left mouse clicks will now work after going through a portal in Mouse Look mode with Hirelings active.
Hirelings will now turn towards their targets when they should.
A bug has been fixed so Hirelings should no longer cause lag for players in certain circumstances.
Hirelings will no longer break the LFM party tooltip that lists each player in the group.
Hirelings will no longer get stuck/confused when attempting to use a rest or rez shrine.
In-game hireling vendors will now sell contracts for all 20 favored soul and all 20 bard hirelings.
Hirelings set to defensive mode will continuously use ranged attacks (including spells) when in defensive mode when explicitliy told to attack a target. Previously, the hireling would perform one attack and then lose interest.
Hirelings that remove curses on their masters will now also remove them from themselves.

[Hecate100]

I have a question about hirelings too. Provided you have their soul stone, how do you get them to resurrect at a res shrine?

[holfrar]

same as interacting with levers/runes.

Carry stone to shrine, highlight Res shrine, then click the 'cogs icon'

Sometimes you have to move around as they are not close enough to use it (walk behind the shrine etc to draw the ghost closer)

[Darconeious]

Thanks for all the help and input. I still Need more training at running with the hirelings. U7 updates look like they are going to help the hirelings and everyone who hires them , can't wait. Also can't wait to go and try to work with them again, it all about learning there mojo, and making it work for you.

[Failedlegend]

Note: If you a wiz and have a extra feat slot your not sure what you gonna do with take augment summoning it makes you hirelings alot stronger as well as any summons (duh!) and charmed enemies.

One note though pathing of Hirelings kinda sucks so be sure to keep an eye on them.

[Hecate100]

Note: If you a wiz and have a extra feat slot your not sure what you gonna do with take augment summoning it makes you hirelings alot stronger as well as any summons (duh!) and charmed enemies.

One note though pathing of Hirelings kinda sucks so be sure to keep an eye on them.

Very true about augment summoning. I got that feat from Fred for my cleric and it's made a huge difference.

Regarding pathing, I use the "get your butt here now" button a lot.

Thanks for the tip on resurrection, Holfrar. I guess I wasn't close enough to the res shrine for them every time, because they wouldn't always resurrect when I told them to.

[AltheaSteelrain]

Little tip, some hirelings are smarter/more responsive than others. I'm not really sure what the difference in their AI is, but you can get class of hireling at one lvl to be really great, and one lvl up, the next hireling is a moron. That happens to me a lot with Fighters/Clerics in aggro mode. For example the lvl 4 fighter is really responsive and loves to join the fight. The lvl 5 fighter hireling will just kinda stand there sometimes.


like a PUG gone wrong eh? :P

[Failedlegend]

Very true about augment summoning. I got that feat from Fred for my cleric and it's made a huge difference.

Regarding pathing, I use the "get your butt here now" button a lot.

Thanks for the tip on resurrection, Holfrar. I guess I wasn't close enough to the res shrine for them every time, because they wouldn't always resurrect when I told them to.

Also for hirelings without they ability to resurrect (or out of mana..although they seem to have a ridiculous amount) as far as I know if they can reach your stone they can pick it up (select it than click their use object thing) than they will follow your ghost wherever you go they can even get you to a shrine provided they survive. Although I've never actually tested that myself because I've always got a Cleric.



Little tip, some hirelings are smarter/more responsive than others. I'm not really sure what the difference in their AI is, but you can get class of hireling at one lvl to be really great, and one lvl up, the next hireling is a moron. That happens to me a lot with Fighters/Clerics in aggro mode. For example the lvl 4 fighter is really responsive and loves to join the fight. The lvl 5 fighter hireling will just kinda stand there sometimes.


I wonder if anyone has made a guide about that

[TechNoFear]

In case you didn't know....

A hireling can pick up your stone (highlight your stone and click the 'gears/cogs' button).

Run back to shrine (hireling will follow bringing your stone) and res.

Also if you want a cleric hireling to stay in one spot, make sure you put them on 'passive'. Sometimes they will decide you need healing and try to run from the spot you told them to stay at.
[ie getting a hireling to remain in spot to use the doors in Prison of the Planes, unless passive, the cleric hireling will run into the electrified door and be killed if your health drops below ~65%.]

[Failedlegend]

In case you didn't know....

A hireling can pick up your stone (highlight your stone and click the 'gears/cogs' button).

Run back to shrine (hireling will follow bringing your stone) and res.

Thanks Tips......I'd forgotten in the 3 hours since I posted that exact same thing.

[AZgreentea]

I wonder if anyone has made a guide about that
I started too, but its a little hard. Plus Phax (I am pretty sure its Phax who does hirelings) made a tweak to their AI. He has been making improvements, so they change.

I didnt know that augment summoning works on hirelings, thats pretty useful!

[FlyingTurtle]

In case you didn't know....

A hireling can pick up your stone (highlight your stone and click the 'gears/cogs' button).

Run back to shrine (hireling will follow bringing your stone) and res.


I've done this once before when I got careless and died.

You can control the fight too while you're dead. Select one target and either hit some buttons to make him cast some damaging spells or hit the cogs button to make the hireling attack your target (if you don't do this, he will do the usual moronic attack-at-random method).

[Failedlegend]

I've done this once before when I got careless and died.

You can control the fight too while you're dead. Select one target and either hit some buttons to make him cast some damaging spells or hit the cogs button to make the hireling attack your target (if you don't do this, he will do the usual moronic attack-at-random method).

Yeah it's like death pact except instead of a Con penalty you get a toon who's a little harder to control and does really dumb things if you don't keep a short lease on it. :P


I didn't know that augment summoning works on hirelings, that's pretty useful!

Your summoned creatures, charmed minions, and hirelings have +4 to all ability scores, increased health, and increased fortification.

Also in the same update hirelings reflex saves were increased to ridiculous levels (easier than programming a trap detection algorithm into them) as well as a bunch of generic AI, Pathing etc. Improvements so while their still not perfect they have gotten alot better on it seems the get a little improvement almost every update.

Oh well I just use my Cleric Hireling as a Mana Battery when I'm soloing explorers but with Augment Summon she actual survives on her own in battle.

Also this can make Charm monster pretty awesome...and its entertaining watch your troll beat on another and laugh when he destorys him because you making him better.

[Darconeious]

Ran D. Tomb last night with a cleric hireling went well, alittle lagy at times , could not figure out how to make the hireling stand on the rune to activate the under water gates. To pull a lever to activate the gate was much easier. Any thought on the under water gates?

[Mercureal]

Also can't wait to go and try to work with them again, it all about learning there mojo, and making it work for you.


Sadly, hirelings have pretty weak mojo for the most part.


Ran D. Tomb last night with a cleric hireling went well, alittle lagy at times , could not figure out how to make the hireling stand on the rune to activate the under water gates. To pull a lever to activate the gate was much easier. Any thought on the under water gates?

It's a bit of trial and error - you move around and the hireling follows you, you just need to position yourself so that the hireling goes where you want. Then you toggle their command bar to hold position.

[Darconeious]

Sadly, hirelings have pretty weak mojo for the most part.



It's a bit of trial and error - you move around and the hireling follows you, you just need to position yourself so that the hireling goes where you want. Then you toggle their command bar to hold position.

I'll try that, I just don't want to get caught between the 2 gates and not be able to get back , if ya know what I mean .

[vVAnjilaVv]

I use hirelings all the time...a few notes on them......

Once you get to a certain level, don't bother with anything but a healing hireling unless you're a buff monster. Their survivability is very low, a cleric can at least heal themselves, and a lot of times they won't even survive. They can generally do ok in casual and normal settings, hard....ehhhh...is questionable depending on what level u are compared to the quest.....elite....pffft, forget it........they really need to improve fortification for hirelings in a big way, as well as self buffing for caster hirelings and potion and item buffing for melees.

As I recall, you can get a full sheet of info on all the hirelings in the DDO compendium.

Supposedly, hirelings are supposed to get a few upgrades in U7.

All in all they can help a lot if you use them responsibly, and have made the game much much much easier to solo. They are still AI tho, and require your observance and superior intelligence to operate in a sufficient manner.

If you just want a pocket healer, invisibility clickies, cleric on tell what to do option only, set on stand still but within healing range.

Hotkey the stand still/move option, as it is currently broke, they are supposed to auto port to you when you hit the summon key without having to toggle that........hotkey the heal spell....I use the number pad + key for this, it's right next to the mouse and it's big. Hotkey the passive key in case they get attacked and need to self heal.

I can easily solo Amarath with these settings on a pure Fighter with very little self healing capabilites...aside from the pocket cleric that is :) Invisibility is a great tactic, for both hireling clerics and real player clerics as well who need to just concentrate on healing.

[AZgreentea]

As I recall, you can get a full sheet of info on all the hirelings in the DDO compendium.

That I also didnt know.
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Category:Hirelings

I guess I just never caught the part about hirelings in the description of Augment Summoning. :p

I want this feat though:

Hireling Trap Reflexes (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Hireling_Trap_Reflexes) Grants you a +20 bonus on your Reflex saves vs. Traps because you are too dumb to move out of the way.

[Failedlegend]

[COLOR="Cyan"]Once you get to a certain level, don't bother with anything but a healing hireling unless you're a buff monster. Their survivability is very low, a cleric can at least heal themselves, and a lot of times they won't even survive.

Note that with augment summoning its a different story they become quite a force to be reckoning with at least compared to your average PuG...if you a Wiz or you have a doggy construct they get boosted by it to...PM skeles too so even without using charm you can have up to 3 other "party members" as a PM Wiz. STart charming and you've got a veritable army of boosted minions...too bad nothing works right in Epic (not that I care...I think epic/tr were dumb ideas so don't support/use them)


For Brevity: I wish their reflex saves were higher because their too uh..."gifted" to avoid traps

IIRC they just recently cranked all hirelings saves vs. traps to ridiculous levels.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Note that with augment summoning its a different story they become quite a force to be reckoning with at least compared to your average PuG...if you a Wiz or you have a doggy construct they get boosted by it to...PM skeles too so even without using charm you can have up to 3 other "party members" as a PM Wiz. STart charming and you've got a veritable army of boosted minions...too bad nothing works right in Epic (not that I care...I think epic/tr were dumb ideas so don't support/use them)



IIRC they just recently cranked all hirelings saves vs. traps to ridiculous levels.

Oh I 100% agree, I have a conjurer wizard whom I took Augment with and it's spectacular, buff them up and your hirelings and summons are just uber......however, how many people are going to use a feat just to make their hirelings/summons stronger. I can think of a few cases, and it's an awesome feat, but let's face it, almost all classes are feat starved and need their feats for more important things.

[Failedlegend]

Oh I 100% agree, I have a conjurer wizard whom I took Augment with and it's spectacular, buff them up and your hirelings and summons are just uber......however, how many people are going to use a feat just to make their hirelings/summons stronger. I can think of a few cases, and it's an awesome feat, but let's face it, almost all classes are feat starved and need their feats for more important things.

This isn't a perfect feat spread but it's what my WF Wiz18/Rog2 (currently 14/2) is gonna be by lvl 18 it allows me access to both PM and Archmage PrEs for easy switching (Making it semi-future-proof) as well as Augment Summon and Insightful Reflexes. A pure Wiz could add Empower or a spell pen feat but it's not something I'd personally miss too much (although some others hold those feats in high regard) .

* = Pre-Req for either AM, PM (hmmm...If the next wiz PrEs acronym ends up being NOON i dunno what ill do) or any side reqs (ie. Lich)


1 Mental Toughness*
2 SF: Enchantment*
3 Extend
4 SF: Necro*

1 GSF: Necro*
2 Toughness*
3 Insightful Reflexes
4 Maximize
5 GSF: Enchantment*
6 Augment Summoning
7 Heighten

[vVAnjilaVv]

This isn't a perfect feat spread but it's what my WF Wiz18/Rog2 (currently 14/2) is gonna be by lvl 18 it allows me access to both PM and Archmage PrEs for easy switching (Making it semi-future-proof) as well as Augment Summon and Insightful Reflexes. A pure Wiz could add Empower or a spell pen feat but it's not something I'd personally miss too much (although some others hold those feats in high regard) .

* = Pre-Req for either AM, PM (hmmm...If the next wiz PrEs acronym ends up being NOON i dunno what ill do) or any side reqs (ie. Lich)


1 Mental Toughness*
2 SF: Enchantment*
3 Extend
4 SF: Necro*

1 GSF: Necro*
2 Toughness*
3 Insightful Reflexes
4 Maximize
5 GSF: Enchantment*
6 Augment Summoning
7 Heighten

While your reply is fine and good, however this is the hirelings forum, not wizards forum, so I stand by my original reply, not every class can afford to take the Augment feat, in fact MOST of them can't. Wizards are definitely an exception and I would almost go one step further as to say the feat was made for them.

Also I am seeing no quicken and no spell pen feats, ur already going to be behind by 2 points in spell pen and I am guess by which schools you chose your going to be casting quite a few spells which have it. Quicken is very nice to have for no fail recons.

[Failedlegend]

While your reply is fine and good, however this is the hirelings forum, not wizards forum, so I stand by my original reply, not every class can afford to take the Augment feat, in fact MOST of them can't. Wizards are definitely an exception and I would almost go one step further as to say the feat was made for them.

Also I am seeing no quicken and no spell pen feats, ur already going to be behind by 2 points in spell pen and I am guess by which schools you chose your going to be casting quite a few spells which have it. Quicken is very nice to have for no fail recons.

Yeah losing Spell pen/quicken kinda sucks for some people and if I was a pure wiz I'd take one or the other but I rarely used either when I had them and didn't notice a diff when I dropped them.

Your right this is a hireling thread so I will say a Fighter, Monk or to a lesser extent Ranger might have room for it...but yeah, it was designed for Wiz (Not Sorc their even less likely than a ranger to take it).

[Darconeious]

Well I half to say that last night I ran the house D outpost with a 9 lv cleric hireling solo with absolutely no problems. Wished I could have thanked her properly . She was a total healbot , and did exactly what I said , especially in xantilars cave. Used no heals on myself. As for for the other problems still having well I'll keep working on that! On a side note if you have never run a certain quest before, it might help to do some reading on it in the wikki / quest might save a whole lot of grief . Anyway I liked the cleric hireling hope this continues for awhile at least it's been a whole new kinda fun now that the game is getting harder and I like to solo alot plus it is teaching me how the game works with more than one person. I would recommend useing hirelings if for nothing else but for that reason.

[Darconeious]

Question on this augment spell . Can anyone get it to cast if they have the feat spot for it?

[Failedlegend]

Question on this augment spell . Can anyone get it to cast if they have the feat spot for it?

It's not a spell...its a passive feat that strengthens summons, charmed monsters and hirelings...not sure if it would effect clickie summons though.

[diamabel]

...
I ran with a 9th lv pal. She worked out pretty well, seemed alittle under buffed for a at lv, I have a 6 th lv pal that is better buffed, but over all held her own quite well. There is some what of a learning curve with using hirelings, quest time was quite abit slower which is ok, one thing that was aggravating going in and out of caves , always had to hit the (T) to get my toon to swing otherwise he just stood there , like I said there is a learning curve here. Any help or suggestion would help, I know absolutely nothing about hirelings . Thanks again I arcade .


Admitted, the hirelings aren't that bad. Even with only one command bar they are better than summons.

But you will slowly get to know their weaknesses. They are easier to handle if you know the quests already. Set them on aggressive, defensive or passive mode or "hold position"/"follow"/"defend someone else" when appropriate. Their pathfinding is sometimes borked (due to 3 dimensional dungeons).

Beware if they are running off to hunt down some monsters. That may get them killed if they run into an ambush and aggro too many monsters (a room filled with archers on platforms comes to mind).

[Darconeious]

Admitted, the hirelings aren't that bad. Even with only one command bar they are better than summons.

But you will slowly get to know their weaknesses. They are easier to handle if you know the quests already. Set them on aggressive, defensive or passive mode or "hold position"/"follow"/"defend someone else" when appropriate. Their pathfinding is sometimes borked (due to 3 dimensional dungeons).

Beware if they are running off to hunt down some monsters. That may get them killed if they run into an ambush and aggro too many monsters (a room filled with archers on platforms comes to mind).

Yea I watch mine like it was my 3 yr old, and I am paying for a service I expect to receive it. With that in mind they are not to bad and I run alittle slower , but that's ok.

[Darconeious]

It's not a spell...its a passive feat that strengthens summons, charmed monsters and hirelings...not sure if it would effect clickie summons though.

Just a feat! Are there any prereqs?
Can one place the effect on one self?

[vVAnjilaVv]

It's not a spell...its a passive feat that strengthens summons, charmed monsters and hirelings...not sure if it would effect clickie summons though.

Augment summons works on anything under your control........hirelings, summons cast from spells, summons cast from scrolls or clikies, and everything you charm, suggest, or dominate.

[brian14]

Yeah losing Spell pen/quicken kinda sucks for some people and if I was a pure wiz I'd take one or the other but I rarely used either when I had them and didn't notice a diff when I dropped them.

Your right this is a hireling thread so I will say a Fighter, Monk or to a lesser extent Ranger might have room for it...but yeah, it was designed for Wiz (Not Sorc their even less likely than a ranger to take it).
My ranger 13 has Augument Summon feat, and it makes a huge difference with hirelings and with charmed (Improved Wild Empathy) animals. Not to mention that Summon Nature Ally spells would be competely useless without it (ok, they are still marginally useful). When I reach level 17+ I might exchange this feat, but for now it is great.

I solo a lot, so I rely on summons and hirelings a lot.

[Darconeious]

My ranger 13 has Augument Summon feat, and it makes a huge difference with hirelings and with charmed (Improved Wild Empathy) animals. Not to mention that Summon Nature Ally spells would be competely useless without it (ok, they are still marginally useful). When I reach level 17+ I might exchange this feat, but for now it is great.

I solo a lot, so I rely on summons and hirelings a lot.

Good! Glad I was able to get this info. Otherwisei had no idea. This all is still all new to me . I have only advanced 1 player to 11 and my 2nd is almost there. I may take this augment feat under very high consideration, since I can alway change it at a cost but worth a try I am going fighter the rest of the way so 12 lvs of fighter I might be ableto fit this feat in, especially since I solo alot. Thanks again to all for the tip and info.

[Darconeious]

Ran the tear of dhakaan on hard solo last night with 9 lv cleric and a 10 lv wizard . The wiz has no! Surviveablity at all. Was always healing him , good thing the cleric I use has a - a ton of sp. So other than both hirelings getting caught in a lighting trap at the begining and dieing , it was most successful . It is a long way to the rest shine from those lighting traps! With xp boosts I got 9100+pnts , I was like woohoo! Can't wait to see how the U7 updates are going to be, I read what to expect and looks really good especially the auto cure for curse, poison, etc. And the use of spells that don't work on certain targets.