True Story of a Hound PUG

[therobb]

This is the true story of a Thelanis Hound PUG this week.

After waiting 25-30 minutes to fill, we have a few deaths on the run out- including three by the arcane leading the group (kind of a red flag but it didn't seem to warrant dropping group).

We get to the quest and the person holding the star offers no leadership or plan whatsoever. Instead he spams Grease and threatens to continue to do so until we start the raid (probably should have recalled and dropped him at this point but we're invested now, 40 minutes spent and only 8 minutes from completion so we ignore him).

Others step up and assume leadership. Assessment of party strengths is done. The bard has the best intim and is selected as the tank. Not a lot of HP or AC but will turtle up for DR, and is warforged so multiple healing sources will be available. All agree we should be fine.

Get into the quest, bard takes aggro, runners set out.

I start healing the bard.

IMMUNE

*Blink* What the...?

Hit him with remove curse. Cast Heal again.

IMMUNE

I ask in party chat, "The bard is immune to healing. What gives?"

No reply.

Hit him with break enchantment *please work!*

Cast heal again.

IMMUNE

Arcane attempts to repair the bard but can't keep pace with the incoming damage. Divine healing doesn't work.

Bard dies. Xyzzy's aggro is lost. Chaos reigns. Party wipes.

Moral of the story: Improved Fortification is the worst feat in game and should be removed. Players who select it should be blacklisted. (Especially if they don't inform party members!)

Going forward I'm hitting the party with a mass cure moderate scroll before we start- just to make sure I never run with someone like this again.

[Qzipoun]

That is so sad it's funny...

Not only is taking the feat really dumb (on a bard !?!?) but volunteering to tank is ridiculous

[EKKM]

I ran a few times with a WF barb (GH stuff) who had that feat. Several poite attempts to tell him to swap it by myself and others "In Eberron it is the arcanes job to heal WF"

Avoided him from then on

[Montrose]

On the plus side, at least he had 100% fort. :)

[TheDearLeader]

That... is... FANTASTIC! XD

What, you didn't have Reconstruct scrolls to UMD him with? Just because he didn't tell you that "oh yeah, btw I can't be healed" ?

Yanno what really happened? He probably hasn't tanked Hound before. He thought he would be able to Recon scroll himself to keep himself alive. Then he got there, and he's like "Hey... what is this "Bees of Xoriat" thing I've got on my bar? Wait, what do you mean I can't cast? OH SH-" *Ding*.

[fuzzy1guy]

As a player of primarirly arcanes i say.....

"If it's not MY toaster. I'm not fixing it."


Not an issue for most WF. I can hit them with a heal scroll for much more than a reconstruct will do. :)

[rimble]

Moral of the story: Improved Fortification is the worst feat in game and should be removed. Players who select it should be blacklisted. (Especially if they don't inform party members!)

Lordy lordy that's funny! Reading along I was trying to solve the mystery...a bug?! Some bizarre PrE I missed?! Bladesworn Transformation, perhaps the storyteller failed to mention the characters 6 levels of Paladin...?!

Never woulda guessed Improved Fortification.

[phalaeo]

I.... can't decide if that's horrible or hilarious.

It's Terribad.

[Eladiun]

Others step up and assume leadership. Assessment of party strengths is done. The bard has the best intim and is selected as the tank. Not a lot of HP or AC but will turtle up for DR, and is warforged so multiple healing sources will be available. All agree we should be fine.

Why do you need intim for Xyzzy and her puppies? Solid Fog clicky and anyone can tank her...

[MrWizard]

Why do you need intim for Xyzzy and her puppies? Solid Fog clicky and anyone can tank her...

Intim, used correctly, makes this raid pretty easy on everyone. However, some use intim wrong (and it makes no sense).


the right use of intim:

1) easy to grab dogs and Xyzzy and keep them.
2) any incoming mobs or broke dogs are intimmed to attack you, not the charmed dogs.
3) moving around correctly, Xyzzy will face you to attack while the charmed dogs are behind her, taking not one point of damage


used this way, the hounds avoid the bees so they do not die right away if broken and the only heals needed are for the tank. An intim with high healing amp basically make this a rogue with a wand as a healer for the raid.



Used incorrectly (and man have I seen this a lot lately)

1) intim stands there and never moves, intimming Xyzzy. Small hounds are on the same side as he is so they all get bees.
2) incoming mobs or Xyzzy swiping in an arc have increased accidental damage to dogs.
3) much harder to kill any incoming mobs if intimmed on the tank while surrounded by little charmed dogs fighting xyzzy.



solid fog- just grabs some aggro intially.
solid fog- dogs fight xyzzy while Xyzzy fights them..




so, intim, used correctly, means the charmed dogs will probably take ZERO damage during the raid...and the only need is for a healer on the outside helping out, a healer is rarely needed in the middle room with an intim
(provided said intim has good healing amp and someone on the side watching him like a bard, UMD scroll or wand user, or a fvs with the healing word)

solid fog has nothing on a good intim...nothing at all.

[Dandonk]

Interesting build choice. Or something.

[Eladiun]

snip

Sure, OK. I'll let that go but rather than send...

" The bard has the best intim and is selected as the tank. Not a lot of HP or AC "

...send a meatshield with a clicky. Sending a No HP Bard because he has the highest Intim is a fools errand; the raid failed before it started because they thought they needed intim. You don't. Just be there first and drop a fog. Besides I would rather have someone with a high HP and high refex save over intim so they can stay alive and save on the bees. Intim is not required on a good chew toy. Sure, it's nice but no where near a must and most runs I lead or go on it's an after thought.

[therobb]

...send a meatshield with a clicky. Sending a No HP Bard because he has the highest Intim is a fools errand; the raid failed before it started because they thought they needed intim. You don't. Just be there first and drop a fog. Besides I would rather have someone with a high HP and high refex save over intim so they can stay alive and save on the bees. Intim is not required on a good chew toy. Sure, it's nice but no where near a must and most runs I lead or go on it's an after thought.

Thanks for the replies.

Never said that intim was required. Even you said that it's nice to have.

Yes- solid fog is a workable method, but as MrWizard pointed out, it is not the safest & easiest way to ensure success. I think it's generally accepted that intimidate makes the raid easier and more controlled.

For the run in question, we had two divines and one arcane available -in the middle- to keep the bard alive. Clearly it wasn't his lack of HP that caused the failure.

It was his immunity to healing and the fact that he didn't tell us about it beforehand that did us in.

[Eladiun]

Thanks for the replies.

Never said that intim was required. Even you said that it's nice to have.

Yes- solid fog is a workable method, but as MrWizard pointed out, it is not the safest & easiest way to ensure success. I think it's generally accepted that intimidate makes the raid easier and more controlled.

For the run in question, we had two divines and one arcane available -in the middle- to keep the bard alive. Clearly it wasn't his lack of HP that caused the failure.

It was his immunity to healing and the fact that he didn't tell us about it beforehand that did us in.

Was this an Elite run? If the Arcane casting recon cannot keep up with Xyzzy damage the tank had too few HP or the arcane was a gimp.

[Cam_Neely]

Moral of the story: Improved Fortification is the worst feat in game and should be removed. Players who select it should be blacklisted. (Especially if they don't inform party members!)


Ya, but think about what that bard probably did with their extra equipment spot! I mean, not having to deal with Minos in the head slot and those pesky 20 HP? Could have put a +15 itim item there, duh!

[Irinis]

Was this an Elite run? If the Arcane casting recon cannot keep up with Xyzzy damage the tank had too few HP or the arcane was a gimp.

It was a Thelanis pug the OP was talking about. Who would dare pug that on elite when parties full of level 20s can manage to wipe on normal?

Of course, my views on Thelanis' capabilities may be skewed from being griefed over and over for the last 4 months by various different individuals who have no problems wasting the time of 10 other people just to cause me a problem.

[cyricjr]

So how sad is it that my immediate thought was "gotta be that Improved Fortification feat."?

[MrWizard]

Why do you need intim for Xyzzy and her puppies? Solid Fog clicky and anyone can tank her...


my snipped response

Sure, OK. I'll let that go but rather than send...

" The bard has the best intim and is selected as the tank. Not a lot of HP or AC "

...send a meatshield with a clicky. Sending a No HP Bard because he has the highest Intim is a fools errand; the raid failed before it started because they thought they needed intim. You don't.

I never said you had to have intim. All I did was try to help you understand your question... 'why you need intim for Xyzzy'.

I did not say it 'was needed' but explained why it is useful more than any other way out invented yet. And how someone could be useless doing it the wrong way..

[pSINNa]

I love the way a funny story put up for the amusement of us all (and yeh, i definitely had a laugh over this, thanks for sharing that one :) ), turns into a l2p oppurtunity with some people eh :P.

Thanks again, that is pure gold :).

Coit out~

[AyumiAmakusa]

For a while there, I thought the story was going to be about the arcane being stupid and the bard being able to withstand aggro and saving the day.....

By comparison, at least the arcane brought grease.

[Eladiun]

I never said you had to have intim. All I did was try to help you understand your question... 'why you need intim for Xyzzy'.

I did not say it 'was needed' but explained why it is useful more than any other way out invented yet. And how someone could be useless doing it the wrong way..


My point was choosing the Bard to tank because he had the highest Intim but no HP or AC was foolish and destine to fail. We were at cross points.

[B0ltdrag0n]

Gives *TheRobb* a cookie.

I was there. That night will live forever in my mind.

[Entelech]

"If it's not MY toaster. I'm not fixing it."

QFT and +1

[Rasczak]

More and more everyday, I am gladdened by a firm decision to shortman this....a bard, a healer or 2, couple arrow fodder types and we're off.

Who asks for a chewtoy at the entrance? Surely if you're making a raid group you're not so apathetic? He deserves to be spanked for underestimating the quest. It's easy through technique not level.....

[Entelech]

You know...I have a game-mechanics question, and I think this Bard's player is the one to answer it.

What happens if you're on a Toaster Wizard, you take the Fortification feat, and then you go into Lich mode?

Can you be healed at all? And do you volunteer to tank Horoth?

[Rasczak]

You know...I have a game-mechanics question, and I think this Bard's player is the one to answer it.

What happens if you're on a Toaster Wizard, you take the Fortification feat, and then you go into Lich mode?

Can you be healed at all? And do you volunteer to tank Horoth?

I think the more important question is what items do you honestly need so much that you can't spare an item slot for even a mod fort item (making your fortification 100% on a WF) that requires you to waste a precious feat (where bards and pallies are not blessed with too many) justifying the loss of one of the important parts of being a WF, multiple healing sources, as well as justifies loss of any healing from an actual Healer?

What eq could you possibly have that justifies a couple extra ac, hp or sp but stops you being healed?

In fact, is it possible to get a PM of the character's name so I can see for myself?

[therobb]

PM sent.

I ran a Reaver and the same bard joined. What the heck, he can't make this one fail. Let him join. It's just one less person I have to heal, right?

I tested healing on him before we start. Check. Still immune.

I asked him about it via voice and text in party chat. He ignored.

Of course he died halfway through the run.

Maybe MyDDO is outdated on his character, but it shows him wearing Minos Legens...

I guess you just can't help some people.