TWF DPS Pally drow or something

[OldAquarian]

That was what a friend asked, this is what I plan on showing him
Comments would still be appreciated

Enhancements put in at PrE levels

Used a few +1 tomes and the +2 Favor tome so should be fairly approachable for most players

Basically: Zeal + Tempest 1 + HotD


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Drow Pally
Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Male
(14 Paladin \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 310
Spell Points: 170
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 20
Will: 16

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 15 22
Dexterity 16 18
Constitution 13 14
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 16 16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Drow Spell Resistance
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 5 (Paladin)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
Spell (1): Lionheart
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Resistance
Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (1): Virtue


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard


Level 10 (Ranger)
Spell (1): Camouflage
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Longstrider
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
Spell (1): Ram's Might
Spell (1): Resist Energy
Spell (1): Summon Nature's Ally I
Spell (1): Tumble


Level 11 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Spell (2): Angelskin
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Paladin)
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (4): Break Enchantment
Spell (4): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (4): Deathward
Spell (4): Holy Sword
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
Spell (4): Restoration
Spell (4): Stalwart Pact
Spell (4): Zeal
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV

[Meetch1972]

Not too shabby. :) My biggest concern would be if this was a first toon then there might be a bit too much button-mashing and figuring out which of the 2-3 bars full of spells/boosts to be using, for the new player. Pure ranger or pure pally would have fewer spells to choose from. I'm not too familiar with the ranger spells, but some of the hit-things-harder pally spells don't last long, and that character probably wouldn't have enough sp to use them/rebuff if they were actively buffing, even just self-buffing. A more experienced player should be able to pick-and-choose spells/boosts to maximise output without running outta sp half way to the next shrine. A well used WIS item and one or two +sp items should help there.

I wonder if it's worth dropping some of those ranger levels and going 18 levels of pally for HoTD/DoS/KoTC III (respec from HoTD -> KoTC at a trainer for end game). For end game content I would prefer pure pally with the capstone over the favored enemy, but still... looks like fun to play. It's not unreasonable to expect the character to have saved up enough plat to buy a +2 con tome somewhere in the mid levels too for some extra survivability.

But yeah, pick some some decent for-level gear as it develops, and it should play well IMO.

[Alternative]

This thing is utterly terrible and calling it DPS is a joke, sorry. Splashing a drow paladin who will have lowish hp and not even getting evasion for the dps sacrifice that comes from the capstone and tier 3 enhancement doesn't make sense. Hunter of the dead is also not exactly the dps option for paladins. No power attack on a melee is yet another thing, toughness taken very late.. I really wouldn't like to meet such a paladin on my way.

Read Junts's guide and get some ideas from there OR build a ranger, this thing you posted does not make sense.

[Meetch1972]

Hunter of the dead is also not exactly the dps option for paladins.

I must somewhat disagree with this. My pally enjoyed smiting the orchard with the auto-vorpal on undead. KotC may also be currently giving the HoTD bonuses, but it is alleged they are fixing that in U7. Since there are more undead on the journey to L20 than demons, at least up to the L15ish side, I would go HoTD and switch to KoTC when hitting Amrath/the vale/subterrane with any significance.

The Pally PrE's do work much better at tier 3 though, and again the capstone is useful... but like my pally, the op won't be top DPS, but also won't suck. (Yes, move toughness to L1 tho and maybe pick something over FoP - see Junts' guide).

[TheDearLeader]

My pally enjoyed smiting the orchard with the auto-vorpal on undead. .

The "auto-vorpal" undead doesn't come until an absolute minimum of Paladin level 18. Abbot, the highest level thing in the Orchard, or all of Necropolis, is a level 17 Quest.

You'd be better off selling me on the fact that since this build has low HP, that it should take all the healing amp/immunities that it can get.

A *cheap*, easy build for a TWF Drow Pally would be HotD to level 14, then reset enhancements to KotC. Every time you log on, make Holy Swords, then switch the 4th level spell slot back to Death Ward before you're actually ready to quest.

Start Stats :
Str 14
+4 Level ups
Dex 16
+1 Tome @3rd
Con 13
+1 Level up, +2 Favor Tome
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16

Feats
1 - Toughness
3 - TWF
6 - ITWF
9 - IC : Slash
12 - GTWF
15 - PA
18 - ??? Maybe more Toughness? SF:UMD? Whatever. Or maybe Khopesh, since you can make Holy Swords of Exotic Weapons, but not of Falchions >.<

Enhancements as stated, paying attention to get some class/racial toughnesses in there.

I'm not completely awake right now, but even with these base instructions, this seems like a more effective build, and easy to grasp.

Oh, and Force of Personality is a waste. They'll already be getting a CHA Bonus to saves; if their Will Save isn't cutting it, that's not going to be what changes it.

Neither your build, nor the little pointy-eared gimp I just posted, would do very well in epic. Low Str = Low to-hit. Drow = Low HP. However, every other high-level content pack should be fine with this kind of character. At the very least, you'll need slightly less babysitting than a Barb.

[unbongwah]

Since the nerf to Tempest I, is sacrificing your third-tier PrE and pally capstone worth it? My gut instinct is no, but I haven't seen the DPS numbers. I would prefer a pure paladin for max DPS or rogue / monk 2 splash for Evasion and either UMD or two extra feats.

[OldAquarian]

Here is my probably flawed thinking:

HotD vs KotC

KotC: - +Smites & (2-12) ~7 dmg on Evil Outsiders
HotD: +Turns & Ghost Touch & Energy Drain Immunity & Restoration & +20% Heals

Not everything is an Evil Outsider - and since they are Evil you already do well against them, plus it seems you risk rogue syndrome against evil outsiders and risk pulling agro on them
Ghost Touch and Energy drain Immunity saves gear slots/carrying extra gear
+20% Heal is like having +20% Health - (except for catastrophic damage - non tanks shouldn't see this too often)

Seems to me HotD is a win (They will be fixing KotC bug that allows it to add damage to undead)

Tempest I vs HotD III
HotD III: 5% chance to kill undead, higher DM if you sacrifice other stats
Tempest I: +10% offhand to ALL targets & Ranger Sprint & Increased Bow

Undead is not an issue for Pallys non-evil targets are

Basically
This was not designed to be an ultimate end-game raid build (i.e. no tomes except level 1 and the free +2 used)

It seems clear that against non evil targets this build does more damage - even after the tempest nerf
Against Evil Outsiders - this build still does more damage than anything other than a KotC
Against Undead - this build still does fairly well
The Flexibility of some ranged is nice as well

Only thing I might take away from these commenst is swap out Force of Personality for Power Attack or another Toughness
Probably Toughness at 1 and Power Attack at 18

As to +hit - Drow Melee Attack adds +2 which is equivalent to 4 STR and this build is only 3 shy of Pally Max
Not really sure why this should be a concern

I'm also curious why Death Ward makes sense instead of Zeal

[Meetch1972]

Here is my probably flawed thinking:

HotD vs KotC

I like that summary. A few tidbits from how I understand things:
* The original build does not allow for KoTC III or HoTD III. IMO stopping at II is significant sacrifice.
* Lets face it, when you hit L20, you're running Shroud, VoD, HoX, Amrath most of the time - your at level quests are predominantly Evil Outsiders. There are exceptions to that, of course - Mindsunder IQ comes to mind, but if generally you have to go against non-evil outsiders you've got a big enough level gap to smack them around anyway.
* At L20 you don't see many undead, unless you're way over their level. However, it feels good to for the most part own The Orchard/Necropolis - occasionally one-shot killing vampires at range with a returning throwing weapon.
* If you do you multiclass and go all the way up to tier 3, you probably won't get your tier 3 PrE until L19 or 20 depending on whether you splash 1 or 2 levels.


I'm also curious why Death Ward makes sense instead of Zeal

Amongst other things, I believe vorpal effects are negated by death ward? It's been so long since I haven't used it, I barely notice when the DW symbol appears above my head to let me know it saved me from something painful.

Having said that, my (dwarf) pally has death ward AND Zeal equipped. I've specced it with enough wisdom + items to buff resists, swap the sp item for something else and have enough left over to let me refresh Zeal, Prayer, Angel skin and another short term spell whose name escapes me for the moment (Divine something?) as often as necessary over a decent period. These must be helping as the last time I ran a VoD with him (using KoTCIII) and the intim tank DC'ed, Suulo turned around and stuck to me like glue, so I hate tanked until the intim returned, and I thought the party DPS was actually pretty good compared to the usual, AND I was wearing the Tharnes set (which gives 20% aggro reduction from hits).

But don't worry about spell selection so much as just be aware of what you have available. You can swap out the pally spell selection at any tavern!

Tip that cannot be given enough: when as a pally you are able to, buy an anointed cold iron weapon ingredient for ~130-140ish platinum - at least in that vendor shop in house J, go to a tavern, swap holy sword in, go into an instance, cast holy sword, go back to a tavern and change the holy sword spell for whatever it is you prefer - there's your +5 metalline holy burst weapon which will stay with you until 15 minutes after you logout. I just completed my first mineral II greensteel, which gives me slightly more DPS, so now I need one less holy sword weapon when deciding to supply firepower. The only downside is not all weapon types are available (as a dwarf I prefer standing in the middle of trash, sharing the love with glancing blows from the Dwarven Axe because Great Axe is not an option).

One more thing to consider is the skill points investment. As of U7, it seems Paladins will have Intimidate as a class skill, so they will be able to hit solid intim pretty easily. Pure paladins are possibly the next preferred elite timitanks :).

[OldAquarian]

Amongst other things, I believe vorpal effects are negated by death ward? It's been so long since I haven't used it, I barely notice when the DW symbol appears above my head to let me know it saved me from something painful.

Having said that, my (dwarf) pally has death ward AND Zeal equipped.

Level 14 Paladin has 1 4th level spell

Death Ward
Grants an ally immunity to death spells and effects, energy drain, and negative energy effects.

Sounds good but mostly redundant:

Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Devoted to the destruction of the undead, you gain 2 additional turning and remove disease attempts per rest, +1 to your level when turning, and a +2 bonus on saves against spells and effects produced by undead. In addition, your spirit is sealed - you are now immune to energy drain from any source. Positive energy effects heal you for more and you take less damage from negative energy effects. You are able to expend a use of your Paladin Remove Disease ability to produce a Restoration effect.


As to KotC vs HotD: cheap enough to swap around, but I still see the +healing as a big deal as well as the side benefits - and I'm guessing that in a few updates the upper levels will not remain mostly evil outsiders

[Meetch1972]

Indeed. The good news is, if you change your mind you can talk to a trainer. If you change your mind again, you can talk to a trainer again (after a little delay). The only thing you really need to worry about in the build is meeting Stat and Feat prerequisites if you want the flexibility.