The Tankin' Ktulu: A Thing That Should Not Be

[TZX]

This is a variant of Thanimal's "Vandt" (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=171456) but (ab)using the U7 possibility of combining previously impossible prestige enhancements to defy all conventional wisdom:

It is a rogue and uses intimidate
It is a tank with a racial con penalty
It can reach 60 ac without grinding

Rogue 12 (Acrobat II)/Monk 6 (Ninja Spy)/Paladin 2


Stats:

STR: 12 + 6 item + 2 tome = 20
DEX: 16 + 5 levels + 2 drow + 3 rogue + 6 item + 2 tome +2 stance = 36 (-2 stance for 32)
CON: 12 + 6 item + 2 tome - 2 stance = 18 (+2 stance for 22)
INT: 12 + 1 tome = 13
WIS: 14 + 2 monk + 6 item + 2 tome = 24
CHA: 14 + 1 paladin + 6 item + 1 tome = 22

If better tomes or TR points are available, dump int and bump str or con


Melee damage:
(assuming +5 shortswords, +5 backstabbing, no other bonuses)

1d6 + 5 weapon + 5 str + 5 PA + 2 racial = 20,5 avg main hand, 17,5 avg off hand when tanking
+ 7d6 + 12 rogue + 8 backstabbing = 65 avg main hand, 62 avg off hand when getting SA

+10% attack speed and +5% doublestrike from wind stance


AC:
(assuming only easy to acquire equipment)

10 base
6 armor (DT)
2 chaosgarde
1 crafting
13 dex
7 wis
5 deflection
5 CE
1 dodge
1 insight
2 monk
1 paladin
1 haste
3 barkskin
4 shield (wand)
---
62 (add short term boosts for 70 / 4 min)

With extensive farming and max buffs 96 ac is possible but sacrifices a lot of potential elsewhere; using DT instead of Icys allows for 92 and slot consolidation.
EDIT: The Epic Staff of Nat Gann also allows top AC and all DT benefits.

Ninja spy also adds 25% incorporeality miss chance which stacks with displacement


Saves:

5/5/5 monk
3/0/0 paladin
4/8/4 rogue
1/1/1 aura
6/6/6 cha
5/5/5 resist
4/4/4 GH
4/13/7 stats
1/1/1 luck
(0/0/4 drow+monk vs. enchantments)
---
33/42/33(37)


HP:

20 base
72 rogue
48 monk
20 paladin
80 con
22 toughness
20 enhancements
30 GFL
20 Minos
10 argo favor
(45 GS)
(10 tortoise path)
---
344(397) (add earth stance for -2 AC and +40 hp)


Feats:

Toughness
TWF
iTWF
gTWF
iCrit
Finesse
PA
CE
Dodge
SF:Intim

+1 rogue feat: Imp Eva, Crippling Strike or Slippery mind

Crippling Strike would be very nice with the monk melee speed boost but Improved Evasion and Slippery Mind would reduce the harm done by nat 1s.


Leveling plan:

Honestly, I have little to no clue here, Rog 1 is obvious and 20 and either 19 or 18 have to be rogue as well to ensure maximum ranks in all vital skills. Help optimizing the leveling would be appreciated.

Only +1 int and str tomes are required when leveling, everything else can be acquired later.


Skills:

Max intimidate, concentration, UMD, search and disable

A few ranks in jump, OL and balance, 1 in tumble

Leftover ranks in Spot, Hide/MS, Diplo or haggle to taste.


Although mostly a "we do what we must because we can" build, it has potential to be pretty effective nonetheless. Like most good intimitanks, this one has two modes: one for tanking and one for dps (the rest can do good dps while fully tanking). It can be played as an extremely well-surviving rogue if its tanking capability is not needed.

Compared to Vandt the Ktulu loses 1d6 SA (meh), 2 rogue feats (ow) and 1 cha bracket but gains shortswords for +2 tohit and damage, +1 crit range and piercing type damage for DR bypassing, 25% incorporeality, better AC, PA for DPS, more Con and 8 to 18 hp depending on animal path, -1 to +2 to intimidate again depending on the animal path taken, better fort and will saves from monk, tier 2 stances, and inherent disease immunity.

[Dark-Star]

You also may want to look at The Hurtlocker build for additional ideas.

In general I like the idea you have here, and adding 6 monk for shadow fade will make for some nice defense. But I am afraid that you will find this build would have done a lot better 15 months ago.

Here are the issues you are going to see when you cap:

We are talking end game content here (difficult elite quests, epics and certain raids), because prior to that a tank is not needed.

For end game then, you will find your HP are too low to tank. Sub 400 will not cut it, that's instant death on a failed fortitude save tanking Horroth.

For this content, 62 ac may as well be zero. Boosted 92 is nice, but not realistically sustainable.

Your to hit will be too low to maintain aggro.

Your intim will be too low for some end game content. While shield blocking you lose some AC (and eventually shadow fade), you'll have low relative DR, and again low hps for a tank.

You have no form of hate tanking boosts, just dps. Your dps when you have aggro is too low relative to other builds to hold aggro.

I am providing this feedback not to rain on your idea, but to give you my wisdom from having been there with a similar build that originally had some of the same issues. It sucks getting to 20 and gearing out to find a build lacking in its intent.

[TZX]

You also may want to look at The Hurtlocker build for additional ideas.

In general I like the idea you have here, and adding 6 monk for shadow fade will make for some nice defense. But I am afraid that you will find this build would have done a lot better 15 months ago.

Here are the issues you are going to see when you cap:

We are talking end game content here (difficult elite quests, epics and certain raids), because prior to that a tank is not needed.

For end game then, you will find your HP are too low to tank. Sub 400 will not cut it, that's instant death on a failed fortitude save tanking Horroth.

For this content, 62 ac may as well be zero. Boosted 92 is nice, but not realistically sustainable.

All numbers provided are "no-grind" ones, that's why even GS was omitted from the 344 hp. With enough grinding we'll be seeing 84 sustainable and 92 for 4 minutes, 88/96 with icys:

62 base
+3 GS insight
+3 dodge (DT or ring)
+4 real aura
+2 real barkskin
+2 recitation
+4 song
+2 +3 wis tome and +3 exc wis
+2 same for dex
---
84 with full buffs, pretty much indefinitely. Even self-buffed it will get a potential 72.

Of course, this is worthless on epics like pretty much all any known AC.

When it comes to HP, granted this is squishy for a tank but with actual endgame gear:

397
(40 earth stance)
60 +3 con tome and +3 exc con
10 supreme false life
---
507 hp

Still very low for a tank but if the ugly one disintegrates for 450 (iirc) it wouldn't be instant death from full hp anymore.


Your to hit will be too low to maintain aggro.

Your intim will be too low for some end game content. While shield blocking you lose some AC (and eventually shadow fade), you'll have low relative DR, and again low hps for a tank.

You have no form of hate tanking boosts, just dps. Your dps when you have aggro is too low relative to other builds to hold aggro.

I am providing this feedback not to rain on your idea, but to give you my wisdom from having been there with a similar build that originally had some of the same issues. It sucks getting to 20 and gearing out to find a build lacking in its intent.

Intim score would be

23 ranks
15 item
7 cha (+3 tome or +2 exc)
6 GS
3 SF
4 GH
2 song
2 luck

62, well that is pretty low. (64 if taking Badger instead of Tortoise path) According to DDOwiki it would be lockdown on Sully normal (yawn) but wouldn't get eDQ or leetXyzzy except with almost a nat20. Don't know if rogue will allow intim enhancements in the future for +4 more but anyway this seems to be the build's main problem. Any clues how to improve that?

Shield blocking is not useful/usable at all, the strategy here is to use purely AC and item/stance DR to avoid damage since even looking at a shield will ruin the thing's AC. The same is for hate tanking; as a finesse/SA build hate tanking could be only as a form of bouncing between two tanks in a group with pathetic DPS. That is however a perfect indicator of when to /ragequit :p

From the full numbers intim score looks like the weak link. This is by no means a power build but should be pretty good for things such as the R.O.G.U.E. achievements (tanking Sully, all rogue Shroud/VoD) and an interesting experiment although lacking in the true end game. Even if the tanking aspect fails it will still have appreciable DPS. Also, having a rogue icon will guarantee a lot of gits and shiggles in pugs.

[mournbladereigns]

Intim score would be

23 ranks
15 item
7 cha (+3 tome or +2 exc)
6 GS
3 SF
4 GH
2 song
2 luck

62, well that is pretty low. (64 if taking Badger instead of Tortoise path) According to DDOwiki it would be lockdown on Sully normal (yawn) but wouldn't get eDQ or leetXyzzy except with almost a nat20. Don't know if rogue will allow intim enhancements in the future for +4 more but anyway this seems to be the build's main problem. Any clues how to improve that?


Actually All class skills (except UMD) should get a genericized enhancement line for 1ap per tier, up to tier IV, from lammania release notes


Class specific skill enhancements have been replaced with "generalized" class skill enhancements. (i.e. "Rogue Hide I" has been replaced with "Improved Hide I".) All prerequisites for enhancements that previously referred to class specific skill enhancements now refer to these general skill enhancements. Improved <skill> I - IV each cost 1 AP, rather than 1/2/3/4. Due to this change, some multiclass Prestige Enhancement combinations are now possible which previously were previously impossible. You may need to respec your enhancements to take advantage of these changes.

with this statement by Eladrin from the Update 7 changes thread http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=271756 saying it will be for all class skills (Except UMD)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eladrin
Oh, I should mention explicitly - some multiclass PrE combinations will remain impossible, such as Stalwart Defender / Defender of Siberys. We're only changing the skill enhancements at this time.
All classes will also receive the skill enhancements for all of their class skills (except for Use Magic Device, which doesn't have a skill enhancement line) rather than just a handful of them.

so after Update 7 drops, should be able to get +4 intim for 4AP