12paladin/6fighter/2rogue - Critique please

[nanobot1994]

Looking for critique on this build, tried to make a char with nice saves, evasion, and a hopefully decent melee ability.

A few opinions that would be really useful are if trying to get trap skills is useless or if I'm loosing too much to get them, and if I can get most of the traps in the game (don't see why not, maxed DD and search out, but I could be wrong) with the current build? If I should drop to 2 levels of paladin, and get 4 more levels of fighter, and loose KotC1. How would this build do at the higher levels, would it be at-least be decent or would I just be wasting me time, and finally, would you suggest a different race for the build?

Feel free to point out any other gaping flaws in the build please :D.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 318
Spell Points: 25
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 15
Will: 11


Starting
Abilities Base Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1)
Strength 16
Dexterity 8
Constitution 14
Intelligence 16
Wisdom 8
Charisma 14



Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+8)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons

[-Zyxas-]

Some of the feats are out of order, I think. Weapon Focus is required for Weapon Specialization, basically you have to take that before any other focus or specialization feats.

Looks good to me though.

[mournbladereigns]

Well one thing IN oticed is your having an int of 16, which is a +3 mod, fighters/pals get 2skill points + Int mod per level, so that should be +5, and +1 more of human, so shouldn't you have 6 Skill points per level with 16 int, your showing only +3, which would be a 10 int. also that'd give you 12! skill points on your 2nd rogue level. To get the 3pts per level from ftr/pal, you'd only need a 10 int cause of human bonus Skill point if your want to max several skills 12 int would give you 4skill points per level, and 40 skill points at 1st level rogue level

I'd go 17 9 14 12 10 14 for stats. The 17 Str, would give you base 22 with level ups, plus another 2 from ftr str would give base 24, and 26 base if you take Human and ftr str III, rogue dex raise would make 10 dex, 10 will would keep you from negative. Force of Personality would be useful on this build. I'd shoot for +2 cha from enhancements. for at least 16, 14 cha would qualify you for Divine Might I.

Drop int to 12, dump insightful reflexes at 6 and take stunning blow then. I'd probably take Cleave at lvl 14, or earlier, or you could take another toughness feat for better HP. I'd probably go Cleave and greater cleave. As I find chaining them can really mow through the baddies for THF's. And you do have your WF/WS feats out of order, it goes WF, WS, GWF/GWS. that'd give you a solid build, and with a +6 item and 16 cha with enh, you'd have +7 to all your saves, and +14 to your will save. Which would be very good. Not to mention a great +to hit with smites (+14).

Between smites, divine favor and WF/WS feats, you'd be very effective fighter, also, if your going Kensai II, you'd have VERY good DPS on your THF.

[nanobot1994]

Well one thing IN oticed is your having an int of 16, which is a +3 mod, fighters/pals get 2skill points + Int mod per level, so that should be +5, and +1 more of human, so shouldn't you have 6 Skill points per level with 16 int, your showing only +3, which would be a 10 int. also that'd give you 12! skill points on your 2nd rogue level. To get the 3pts per level from ftr/pal, you'd only need a 10 int cause of human bonus Skill point if your want to max several skills 12 int would give you 4skill points per level, and 40 skill points at 1st level rogue level

I'd go 17 9 14 12 10 14 for stats. The 17 Str, would give you base 22 with level ups, plus another 2 from ftr str would give base 24, and 26 base if you take Human and ftr str III, rogue dex raise would make 10 dex, 10 will would keep you from negative. Force of Personality would be useful on this build. I'd shoot for +2 cha from enhancements. for at least 16, 14 cha would qualify you for Divine Might I.

Drop int to 12, dump insightful reflexes at 6 and take stunning blow then. I'd probably take Cleave at lvl 14, or earlier, or you could take another toughness feat for better HP. I'd probably go Cleave and greater cleave. As I find chaining them can really mow through the baddies for THF's. And you do have your WF/WS feats out of order, it goes WF, WS, GWF/GWS. that'd give you a solid build, and with a +6 item and 16 cha with enh, you'd have +7 to all your saves, and +14 to your will save. Which would be very good. Not to mention a great +to hit with smites (+14).

Between smites, divine favor and WF/WS feats, you'd be very effective fighter, also, if your going Kensai II, you'd have VERY good DPS on your THF.

I was looking to max Disable Device, Search, and UMD. Since all 3 are cross-skill on non-rogue levels, I needed 6 points, so the need for 16 int.

[-Zyxas-]

Yeah, you got the skills right (nanobot). I'd say insightful reflexes is actually good for this build, since it will have evasion.

[mournbladereigns]

I was looking to max Disable Device, Search, and UMD. Since all 3 are cross-skill on non-rogue levels, I needed 6 points, so the need for 16 int.

Oops, my bad on the skills, what I get for commenting on forums when I'm way too tired. Given that looks pretty solid. Will have solid DPS, should be able to squeeze out 32 str with exceptionals, hitting 40 with Kensai II power surge. Otherwise I'd see about maybe taking Stunning blow sooner, though it would mean taking insightful reflexes later, tough call. Human is pretty much best fit for this cause of extra skill points, plus stat flexibility and extra feat doesn't hurt.

[unbongwah]

Personally I don't like spending more than 6 pts on INT for non-wizards. Could you start INT 14 and take a +2 INT tome at lvl 7? You should still have enough skill pts for max UMD, Search, & Disable if I'm adding right; just use your rogue 2 lvl to max out whichever skill lagged behind. That gives you more pts to put into, say, CON.

[nanobot1994]

Personally I don't like spending more than 6 pts on INT for non-wizards. Could you start INT 14 and take a +2 INT tome at lvl 7? You should still have enough skill pts for max UMD, Search, & Disable if I'm adding right; just use your rogue 2 lvl to max out whichever skill lagged behind. That gives you more pts to put into, say, CON.

That would be perfect, but sadly, I don't have a +2 tome. Though I will LR this char once it hits raiding levels and do that. Thanks for the idea :D.

[nanobot1994]

Anything else people want to add to this?

[loki_3369]

Doesn't look horrible. I didn't bother going with rogue skills on mine though. i wouldnt have much of a disable or open lock so i just pumped umd up. Hp could be higher, I'd also advise going 1-rogue, 2-7 fighter, 8 rogue, 9-11 pally, 12-17 fighter, then 18-20 pally. I don't know, just what i did. Hit me up in game if you want more info :P

[Dark-Star]

You absolutely want 14 pali for Zeal, even at the cost of evasion and UMD. In short I don't think 12/6/2 is a good way to go for a paladin.

I have a 14pali/6ranger and a 18pali/2rog I am pretty happy with.

[ekniff]

Quick question so I understand what's going on: why not 18/2 paladin rogue/monk?

[seskie1]

You absolutely want 14 pali for Zeal, even at the cost of evasion and UMD. In short I don't think 12/6/2 is a good way to go for a paladin.

I have a 14pali/6ranger and a 18pali/2rog I am pretty happy with.

+1
Zeal and the ability to make your own Min IIs along with the other spells Paladins get at lvl 14 are invaluable, I would suggest 14paladin/4fighter/2rouge. Also that high of a intel. is not recommended but it is your build so your choice. I would say 12 intel which is 14 with a +2 tome is more then enough as you can raise your str.

edit: Saw your post about maxing rogue skills, which I don't feel are needed to get 99% of the traps in this game.

[nanobot1994]

Doesn't look horrible. I didn't bother going with rogue skills on mine though. i wouldnt have much of a disable or open lock so i just pumped umd up. Hp could be higher, I'd also advise going 1-rogue, 2-7 fighter, 8 rogue, 9-11 pally, 12-17 fighter, then 18-20 pally. I don't know, just what i did. Hit me up in game if you want more info :P

Ah, cool. Thanks Az.

To everyone else, thanks for the advice, Ill keep that in mind.

[DrNuegebauer]

I recommend ditching the rogue skills!

You won't need them/ use them anyway.

Start with 16 dex and 8 int. Take 2WF and khopesh.

You'll do some really nice damage, have really nice saves, and enough skill points to max out UMD anyway!

You can take 4 ranks in open locks and be able to jack all the locks in the game anyway - you'll find locks is more useful than DD.