Vengeful Phoenix (U7 Intimi-Solar Phoenix)

[Darkrok]

This build borrows very heavily from the Solar Phoenix (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=248800) build. I highly recommend reading that build as this one deviates very little from it, using a very similar list of feats as well as all the same enhancements other than Paladin Devotion IV which gets sacrificed for Paladin Intimidate I-IV in U7.

Speaking of intimidate, this build uses two features from U7 to build a usable healing-amp based intimitank for U7 - Paladins receiving intimidate as a class skill and skill enhancements being discounted to 1AP per tier instead of the current 1/2/3/4. With a couple of feats invested and 5 total AP's we can boost our Intimidate score a total of 10 points. While that doesn't put us into intimitanking Epic DQ1 we can comfortably hit an unbuffed Intimidate of 59 in minimal gear (+2 tome, +6 charisma item, +5 charisma skills item, +15 intimidate item - full breakdown listed at bottom of post).

HP-wise with a greensteel hp item, argo favor, +6 con, gfl, toughness on gear you'd hit 519. This build really needs all the hp-gear available. +2 exceptional con and keeping rage up at all times would be very important when tanking certain fights (I'm looking at you Horoth), and a +7 con and +1 exceptional con for another 20hp's wouldn't hurt either. Finally, situational use of Madstone boots could make sense in certain areas where hp's are crucial, though it really detracts from all the build can do.

We're making no effort on AC here...we're tanking by healing more damage than we're taking. Given that my favored soul could heal this character for an average of 300hp's with his capstone and that a self-cast heal scroll would be over 440hp's we can get away with taking a bit of damage.

Our standing UMD for scrolls/wands (assuming a bunny hat) with no item swaps will be 23 ranks +6 charisma (22 charisma) +5 charisma skills item +3 bunny hat for a total of 37. With GH we'd be at 41 and no-failing Heal scrolls.

Gear is obviously very dependent on your time, guild, etc, but here's a simple work-up of what I'm aiming to do for my 34-point TR:
Head: Minos Legens
Goggles: Greensteel Con-Opp +150sp, +6wis/+10haggle/+10diplo, disease/blindness ward
Neck: Silver Flame Necklace, Shintao, (Epic) Torc
Trinket: Bloodstone, HoGF, Mysterious Bauble
Robe: DT with 10%/20% healing amp, Sovereign rune to taste (I'll probably take Destruction but wouldn't pass up Disintegration Guard either)
Cloak: Greensteel +45hp Smoke (really great to give us some permanent defense while soloing...could put a guard here instead but this toon solos far too well to pass up on the permanent blur)
Bracer: (Epic) Jid'z-tetka
Rings: +6 str ring, +6 cha ring, +15 intimidate ring, ToD rings (Shintao/FB for set bonuses but we lose charisma if we wear Shintao...might want a +cha ToD ring as well for when we're wearing Silver Flame/Torc over Shintao)
Gloves: Gauntlets of Eternity, (Epic) Spectral Gloves, (Epic) Gloves of the Claw. Just a note here, I tried not to mention anything I'd consider out of my reach with my play time, guild, etc but the Epic Gloves of the Claw is an exception. Since they're currently the only non-weapon with 30% healing amp they would free us up to itemize much differently and bear mentioning. Also, Gauntlets of Eternity are worthy of a comment. While the 30% devotion on them don't even begin to compare to the 75% we get from pots/clickies the effect would always be on. For easier content it's just a nice boost to our healing. The Major Healing Lore would be huge for us - 9% crit's on our healing finisher will help a ton with keeping our group topped off.
Boots: Situational stuff...Kundarak Delving, Madstone, Striders, Featherfall, Firestorm, Anchoring, etc.
Weapons: Lightning II and 30% healing amp (holy/goodburst) for starters. Worth considering a 10/20/30% healing amp if you're loaded with ingredients - it helps with itemization for times when you're going to intimitank or don't care about your offhand dps and it gets you all 3 tiers of healing amp earlier than you can wear DT. I'm also considering turtling up on occasion. We lose our centered bonuses but being able to toss on one of the shields I already have (Madstone/Light and Darkness) is appealing if I'm just going to be standing there getting beat on anyways.

What I'm missing from the gear is a +resist item. Still trying to decide if that bothers me before I TR and if it does I'll drop the Holy from my 30% healing amp longsword to put 10% on it, then put +5 resists in the 10% slot for my DT. We lose 2d6 holy damage on our off-hand weapon in exchange for +5 resists. Eventually we could make both of course.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Vengeful Phoenix
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Paladin \ 7 Monk \ 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 354
Spell Points: 136
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 18
Will: 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23 24
Dexterity 15 17 17
Constitution 14 16 16
Intelligence 10 12 12
Wisdom 10 12 12
Charisma 14 16 16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 6 9 9
Bluff 2 3 3
Concentration 4 26 28
Diplomacy 2 3 3
Disable Device 4 5 5
Haggle 5 6 6
Heal 0 1 1
Hide 2 3 3
Intimidate 6 26 36
Jump 7 11 11
Listen 0 1 1
Move Silently 2 3 3
Open Lock 6 7 7
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 0 1 1
Search 4 5 5
Spot 0 1 1
Swim 3 7 7
Tumble 3 4 4
Use Magic Device 6 26 26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+3)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Harmonious Balance (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Inevitable Dominion (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Whirling Steel Strike
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
Spell (1): Lionheart
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Resistance
Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (1): Virtue


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Spell (2): Angelskin
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Magic
Feat: (Automatic) Slow Fall


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) AC Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Damage
Feat: (Automatic) Purity of Body


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Wholeness of Body
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Intimidate IV




Intimidate

Ranks: 23
Base Charisma with Tome: +3
Least Dragonmark of Sentinel: +2
SF: Intimidate: +3
Deneith Intimidation I: +1
Paladin Intimidation IV: +4
Base w/o gear: 36

+6 Cha Item: +3
+5 Cha Skills Item: +5
+15 Intim Item: +15
Base w/o buffs: 59

[Ravoc-DDO]

For resists, you could consider Boots of the Innocent. Or epic golden greaves with +4 resists in yellow slot; gets you DR4/- along with it which is always handy.

[Darkrok]

For resists, you could consider Boots of the Innocent. Or epic golden greaves with +4 resists in yellow slot; gets you DR4/- along with it which is always handy.

Thanks! Never ran into that situation so wasn't familiar with gear options. I still think I'll just get the greensteel with the 10% on it as it gives me more healing amp earlier and makes the gear easier to deal with. I can always redo the DT so the only thing I'd be out is a single-shard greensteel weapon. Long-term those are great options.

[tkneip1874]

i understand the importance of umd (which is the reason for 1 lvl of rog). however have you thought about 14 pal/6 mnk. this way you get zeal (10% double strike) and windstance 2 (+5% double strike). havent crunched the numbers so dont know if would be good or bad. just tossing out the idea.

[Darkrok]

i understand the importance of umd (which is the reason for 1 lvl of rog). however have you thought about 14 pal/6 mnk. this way you get zeal (10% double strike) and windstance 2 (+5% double strike). havent crunched the numbers so dont know if would be good or bad. just tossing out the idea.

Strongly considered it. You lose some healing amp in the deal though as well as wholeness of body. I could take windstance 2 already but didn't feel like I had the AP to fit it in. Also, using windstance sacrifices even more healing amp. I like the 14/6 build quite a bit (holy sword is very appealing)...it's just a more offensive-oriented build while this build is more aimed at defense/tanking/utility. I may build out an intimidate version of that build just for reference for everyone though...the healing amp will still be good (367% in fire stance, 294% in wind stance) and we can now get full ranks in intimidate from our paladin levels.

[Valindria]

or 15/3/x

This has been discussed a lot.

15 paladin gives you Zeal + Best heal spell, DMIII, DSII, Exhalted III, 20% HA (HotD), etc
3 Monk gives FoL, 10% HA, 2 feats, etc

So you'll be down 10% HA from 7 monk but gain DPS.

X options
- Fighter gives 2 feats (+ towershield), 1 Str, haste boost I, full intim (after U7 not a bonus), etc
- Rogue gives full UMD, some SA
- FVS gives a lot more spell points.


My HA Paladin is 1 tick into 19. I have had a lot of fun with that toon but there are simply times were a ton of HA is not worth it. If you are doing Shroud and a mass comes in and hits you for 800 when you have have 400 hp it's not as helpful. You will want all the damage you can manage. DMIII + smites + spamming ele/void strike I, + paladin spells will help. Eventually my goal will be a TR into the fighter version or 14/6.

[Darkrok]

Here's a 'DPS Phoenix' version of the build. As with the original, very tight on the AP's to the point where we actually have to skip useful things like Paladin Charisma I & II. In the first build we had to give up Paladin Devotion IV from the original Solar Phoenix to fit in Paladin Intimidate I-IV. For this build to fit those points in we have to give up Paladin Devotion III as well (since you mentioned wanting a 'dps stance' of Wind II).

What we gain here:
6hp's
1BAB while centered
Zeal
Holy Sword
Exalted Smite III
Wind Stance II (+2.5% double-strike from I)

What we lose here:
Low levels of rogue skills that at least in the case of Open Lock are very useful. We'll have a +6 dex skills item, +15 open lock item, +7 from lockpicks, +3 from dex bonus (assuming no dex item), and +4 from ranks for a total of an unbuffed Open Lock of 35. We could push that quite a bit higher with a dex buff/item, GH, HoGF/Voice, etc. So basically we're giving up a usable Open Lock the entire game and a usable disarm/search for the first handful of levels
12 Ranks of UMD. That drops us from a UMD with GH and no item swaps of 41 to 29. HoGF would push us back up to 31 but that's still short of a comfortable area for using Heal scrolls. Still a huge benefit and worth the 1 skill point per level we spent but nowhere near as useful as the original build.
Lost healing amp. We drop from 401% in fire stance/320% in wind stance to 367% in fire stance/294% in wind stance.

Overall it's a balanced trade-off. Do you want the UMD, rogue skills, and extra healing amp? Or do you want the Holy Sword, Zeal, and Wind Stance II (although both builds could have Wind Stance II for the same cost - giving up Paladin Devotion III). Both are great builds for someone that wants to be able to intimidate on a healing amp based build.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(14 Paladin \ 6 Monk)
Hit Points: 360
Spell Points: 168
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 16
Will: 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23 24
Dexterity 15 17 17
Constitution 14 16 16
Intelligence 10 12 12
Wisdom 10 12 12
Charisma 14 16 16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 6 22 22
Bluff 2 3 3
Concentration 6 26 28
Diplomacy 2 3 3
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle 2 3 3
Heal 2 3 3
Hide 2 3 3
Intimidate 2 26 36
Jump 6 10 10
Listen 0 1 1
Move Silently 2 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 0 1 1
Search 0 1 1
Spot 0 1 1
Swim 3 7 7
Tumble 3 4 4
Use Magic Device 4 14 14

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Club
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Light Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Quarterstaff
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Unarmed
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Harmonious Balance (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Inevitable Dominion (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Whirling Steel Strike
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
Spell (1): Lionheart
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Resistance
Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (1): Virtue


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Angelskin
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Break Enchantment
Spell (4): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (4): Deathward
Spell (4): Holy Sword
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
Spell (4): Restoration
Spell (4): Stalwart Pact
Spell (4): Zeal


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Magic
Feat: (Automatic) Slow Fall


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) AC Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Damage
Feat: (Automatic) Purity of Body


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Intimidate I
Enhancement: Paladin Intimidate II
Enhancement: Paladin Intimidate III
Enhancement: Paladin Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II

[Darkrok]

or 15/3/x

This has been discussed a lot.

15 paladin gives you Zeal + Best heal spell, DMIII, DSII, Exhalted III, 20% HA (HotD), etc
3 Monk gives FoL, 10% HA, 2 feats, etc

So you'll be down 10% HA from 7 monk but gain DPS.

X options
- Fighter gives 2 feats (+ towershield), 1 Str, haste boost I, full intim (after U7 not a bonus), etc
- Rogue gives full UMD, some SA
- FVS gives a lot more spell points.


My HA Paladin is 1 tick into 19. I have had a lot of fun with that toon but there are simply times were a ton of HA is not worth it. If you are doing Shroud and a mass comes in and hits you for 800 when you have have 400 hp it's not as helpful. You will want all the damage you can manage. DMIII + smites + spamming ele/void strike I, + paladin spells will help. Eventually my goal will be a TR into the fighter version or 14/6.

You lose a feat unless you go fighter on the 15/3/2 which in our build means a loss of three points of intimidate. Fighter however is very interesting. An extra 1 str, an extra feat versus the builds posted, an extra Toughness enhancement, the haste boost which was mentioned. I'd probably save the fighter levels until the end and use feat swaps to get in Power Attack and Greater Two Weapon Fighting there which would free up more Toughness, Stunning Blow, more Intimidate bonus feats, or anything else that we'd want to take at an open level. Honestly, a double toughness wouldn't be out of the question to drive those hp's up even higher.

[Tobril]

A few notes:

Levik – Madstone will be an OK substitute, but you will eventually want the big kid. DR will be really important if you don’t go for AC.

Gauntlets of Eternity – I’m not a fan of these, as I feel the Crest of st Markus is a better choice.

UMD – I like that you plan for no item swaps. Being anything but no-fail is death. Taking time to swap is also death.

POS longsword – holy, good burst, 30%. You’ll be fine with all the other amp in intimitank mode and you want this thing to actually do damage.

Golden Greaves – These are almost nailed to my feet. Other stuff goes in only as absolutely needed.

General slot issues – Good luck, it’s a massive pain on this type of build.

Skills – I question the choice of diplo and heal. It’s also nice to be able to hit 30-40 jump in beholder or heavy dispel areas.

Stance – Sun, you’ll want the ki. Wind sucks now and is for getting the jidz jump bonus when needed.

Healing Amp – I find that 300% is plenty. 3 or 6 FoL and 6 jerky goes a long way.

Thief skills – You can actually do so-so in this regard with a ton of equipment.

Level split – I’m partial to 15/3/2, but 14/6 is OK also.

DPS – It’s gonna suck, have some khopeshes or wraps+rings handy for when FoL doesn’t work.


My build is a middle-of-the-road approach that may help provide some answers on how these builds perform, as well as some additional thoughts on gear selection:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3227440

Sigtrent’s 15/3/2 fighter splash is also linked in my build, he has some good insight as well that should be considered.

[Darkrok]

Really like your 15/3/2. I think all 3 are great options...just boils down to what you want most and then building to that niche.

[Darkrok]

A few notes:
Skills – I question the choice of diplo and heal. It’s also nice to be able to hit 30-40 jump in beholder or heavy dispel areas.

Sorry, should have mentioned. The diplo and heal in the builds was my way of putting in the points in intimidate even though it's not a class skill for Paladins in the builder. I updated the overall skills at the top but didn't take the sausage-making numbers out of the rest of the build. Anywhere you see diplo/heal it's actually supposed to be intimidate. On that same issue, I think I might have gotten a few more points in balance than is possible while maxing out Intimidate during the monk levels on the second build. Not a big deal but you'll just want to make sure your UMD, Concentration, and Intimidate are maxed before spending any other points.

As to the rest of your comments, I'm definitely not an expert on the gear by any stretch of the imagination other than knowing enough to know that general slot issues are definitely a pain. ;) I definitely think Golden Greaves are huge for this build though and I'll be trying to snag me a pair. I'd also be staying in Sun stance constantly for both the ki and the healing amp.

Levik would be really nice as well although I really question how often I'll be turtling up. It would have to be a bunch of things hitting me quickly to make it worth giving up the healingx3 finisher and the extra healing that would bring in. Most of the time I'm probably going to be better swinging.

Long-term on the sword we'll have the epic gloves of the claw, get our +5 resists from somewhere other than DT, and we can use two pure dps weapons. Until then I'd probably have several sets of gear between the DT and greensteel longsword amp. My first cut will probably be the 10%/goodburst/30% but that probably won't be the last. It will just be the last before I TR. :P

[Tobril]

Sorry, should have mentioned. The diplo and heal in the builds was my way of putting in the points in intimidate even though it's not a class skill for Paladins in the builder.

Doh, I probably should have guessed this. :o

A lot of people have posted really bad versions of these types of builds, but it looks like you have a pretty solid grip on the concept.

Have fun with it, and let me know how you like it when leveled/geared.

[Darkrok]

Doh, I probably should have guessed this. :o

A lot of people have posted really bad versions of these types of builds, but it looks like you have a pretty solid grip on the concept.

Have fun with it, and let me know how you like it when leveled/geared.

You may have done me in for running my build anyways. Your experience actually playing it, commenting that 56 intim was 'enough', and that 330% healing amp was 'enough'...I just really like the idea of having zeal and holy sword (be a nice replacement for the posII when I don't need the amp), more dps options, etc. I think I'm pretty sold on the 15/3/2 for my purposes. It sounds like we have similar play styles - I'm a UMD junky that likes to keep myself up and running with as little resources as possible. If I itemized for 10/20/30 amp I'd be getting 3/7 on fists. And like you mentioned, 3/6 isn't bad. Basically we're losing just over 8% off our max geared incoming heals. That's all my builds were getting out of Monk 6/7.

I'm going to juggle the levels a bit though...I'd like to get the Paladin levels as quickly as possible so I probably won't take that last rogue level until 19 or 20. I could be persuaded to take it earlier but there's just so much juicy stuff from Paladin that the sooner we can get it the better.

A little advanced building thought now...we've got a floating feat in Oversized TWF in my likely version of your build. That feat can slide as early as level 3 or level 1 monk (whichever comes first). Using an LR we could slide iTWF to level 12, iCrit to 15, and gTWF to 18. That lets us qualify for iTWF with a +3 dex tome if we start our dex at 14. Those 2 build points can then be used to bring our charisma up to 15 which would qualify us for DM III if we want it and also get our charisma to the next tier up with the same AP expenditure and gear. Just a thought long-term.

I'll post my version of Tobril soon'ish. Not sure if it'll be today as it's almost time to actually play the game again.

[Darkrok]

Just posted here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=275747):

NEW! - Whirling Steel Strike is now considered a Monk Bonus Feat.

This doesn't really have any implications I can think of for the 12/7/1 or the 15/3/2 builds. That said, the 14/6 build becomes very interesting from an ease of leveling standpoint with some exploiting of the armor system in ddo. Stay pure paladin at 1-6, taking iTWF then at level 6 (feat progression goes TWF/Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Slashing, iTWF). That gets us our +6 BAB we need for iTWF at 6. The next threshholds are 8BAB needed at 9 (we meet that) and 11 BAB needed at 12 (we meet that as well). That means we can (1) go TWF/Power Attack (eventually swap to Least Dragonmark of Sentinel), (3) Weapon Focus: Slashing, (6) iTWF, (7) monk: Toughness (don't fight centered yet - stay in adamantite), (8) monk: Whirling Steel Strike (now that we have evasion we fight centered), (9) monk: Path of Harmonious Balance/Improved Critical: Slashing, (12) gTWF, (15) oTWF, (18) Skill Focus: Intimidate, (20) monk: Power Attack (after swapping level 1 feat to Least Dragonmark of Sentinel). No difference in the end but we get all of our dps-boosting feats 6 levels earlier. We lose 8 skill points at level 1 but I'm pretty sure the build would absorb that simply by losing some points in balance.

Overall I'd say this is the easiest of the builds to level up. Levels 1-7 you're going to use the ridiculously useful combination of adamantite full plate's high armor bonus and high dr. Level 8 we can actually continue to use that advantage any time we don't need evasion (and level 8 actually gives us access to +5 adamantite full plate as well as the level 8 version of the full plate from TS). Once we hit level 9 we get into having fists of light at which point the build really starts to shine as its originally intended purpose. Incidentally this is also when the adamantite's dr and our ac just starts to tail off on its effectiveness so we can seamlessly transition from our armor keeping us alive to our healing amp and ki keeping us alive.

Still not the route I really want to go but the ease with which it levels makes it very interesting.

[Tobril]

You may have done me in for running my build anyways. Your experience actually playing it, commenting that 56 intim was 'enough', and that 330% healing amp was 'enough'...I just really like the idea of having zeal and holy sword (be a nice replacement for the posII when I don't need the amp), more dps options, etc. I think I'm pretty sold on the 15/3/2 for my purposes. It sounds like we have similar play styles - I'm a UMD junky that likes to keep myself up and running with as little resources as possible. If I itemized for 10/20/30 amp I'd be getting 3/7 on fists. And like you mentioned, 3/6 isn't bad. Basically we're losing just over 8% off our max geared incoming heals. That's all my builds were getting out of Monk 6/7.

I'm going to juggle the levels a bit though...I'd like to get the Paladin levels as quickly as possible so I probably won't take that last rogue level until 19 or 20. I could be persuaded to take it earlier but there's just so much juicy stuff from Paladin that the sooner we can get it the better.

A little advanced building thought now...we've got a floating feat in Oversized TWF in my likely version of your build. That feat can slide as early as level 3 or level 1 monk (whichever comes first). Using an LR we could slide iTWF to level 12, iCrit to 15, and gTWF to 18. That lets us qualify for iTWF with a +3 dex tome if we start our dex at 14. Those 2 build points can then be used to bring our charisma up to 15 which would qualify us for DM III if we want it and also get our charisma to the next tier up with the same AP expenditure and gear. Just a thought long-term.

I'll post my version of Tobril soon'ish. Not sure if it'll be today as it's almost time to actually play the game again.

According to the ddowiki, the 6 monk is a little faster, which can
be useful sometimes.

I also like the thought of using the new epic claw. The stacking
intimidate, along with the new coin lord favor will be a nice boost.

That may allow for horoth tanking /w DI to cover for failed disintegrate
saves, will have to think about that.

The claw would create an issue with my non-swap ring, however,
as it was chosen to help increase to-hi via the necklace. I’d also
like to keep working for epic spectrals for the same reason.

AP is always in a bit of flux. I’ve got a spare +3 dex tome for this
life, and a +4 for when I think I’m done TRing.

My plan was to rely on other +4 tomes to meet DM III. I’ve pulled
a few +4’s so far and stay on timer pretty well for EDQ and ToD,
so hopefully the others will happen eventually.

The change to paladin intimidate gives me 15 skill points to play
with. As a result, I’ve somewhat considered dropping Quicken.

Likely candidates are: Maximize, Extend, OTWF.

Still not sure though, will have to see how easy it is to pass a
concentration check when under severe fire.

[Tobril]

Just posted here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=275747):


This doesn't really have any implications I can think of for the 12/7/1 or the 15/3/2 builds. That said, the 14/6 build becomes very interesting from an ease of leveling standpoint with some exploiting of the armor system in ddo. Stay pure paladin at 1-6, taking iTWF then at level 6 (feat progression goes TWF/Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Slashing, iTWF). That gets us our +6 BAB we need for iTWF at 6. The next threshholds are 8BAB needed at 9 (we meet that) and 11 BAB needed at 12 (we meet that as well). That means we can (1) go TWF/Power Attack (eventually swap to Least Dragonmark of Sentinel), (3) Weapon Focus: Slashing, (6) iTWF, (7) monk: Toughness (don't fight centered yet - stay in adamantite), (8) monk: Whirling Steel Strike (now that we have evasion we fight centered), (9) monk: Path of Harmonious Balance/Improved Critical: Slashing, (12) gTWF, (15) oTWF, (18) Skill Focus: Intimidate, (20) monk: Power Attack (after swapping level 1 feat to Least Dragonmark of Sentinel). No difference in the end but we get all of our dps-boosting feats 6 levels earlier. We lose 8 skill points at level 1 but I'm pretty sure the build would absorb that simply by losing some points in balance.

Overall I'd say this is the easiest of the builds to level up. Levels 1-7 you're going to use the ridiculously useful combination of adamantite full plate's high armor bonus and high dr. Level 8 we can actually continue to use that advantage any time we don't need evasion (and level 8 actually gives us access to +5 adamantite full plate as well as the level 8 version of the full plate from TS). Once we hit level 9 we get into having fists of light at which point the build really starts to shine as its originally intended purpose. Incidentally this is also when the adamantite's dr and our ac just starts to tail off on its effectiveness so we can seamlessly transition from our armor keeping us alive to our healing amp and ki keeping us alive.

Still not the route I really want to go but the ease with which it levels makes it very interesting.


Sounds like we have a different leveling plan. No worries
though, as there are many ways to go about it.


Armour:

I use Mithral Plate until 8, at whichpoint I get evasion
and use a mithral breastplate.

An antiquated old-school gharzad’s helm provides a little
DR to stop grazing hits.

9 brings golden greaves into the mix for more grazing hit DR.

10 is the delving suit or invulnerable+deathblock outfit as
appropriate to the situation.

14 is the icy raiment.


Weapons:

Low level TWF really sucks, so I THF until I get my greensteel
back. It's a little silly to have TWF feats and not use them,
but TR is about the long run.


I also switched IC:Slash and GTWF from what my build states
in order to have GTWF sooner so I don’t loose my mind with
the suckiness of TWF without the full feat chain.


Healing:

Cookies, cupcakes, candy canes, wands, and potions until
jerky.

Jerky then does most of the healing until FoL.



Level progression:

The 2nd thief and all monk levels are delayed to make better
use of skill points gained from an int tome.


At 14 the icy and full monk levels are back online, so I'm almost
like normal again.


Also, as a side note, I have an error in my intimidate calc. It is
only 55 without a +6 cha item swap. (will fix and update soon)

[Darkrok]

Just to be clear that leveling plan was for the 14/6 build - not any of the rogue varieties.

EDIT: Looking at this closer again I like your leveling process and have an interesting plan involved with the TWF line based on your comments and the new change with WSS being a monk feat.

[Darkrok]

Ok, here it is...redid the 15/3/2 to my tastes and for U7.

The enhancements are very much mutable and debatable. I'll probably respec them every 3 days at level 20. I chose for a nearly max-offense build here (only thing higher would be DM III and requires a +4 cha tome) that dumps 4 points of intimidate to fit in Devotion IV and Toughness IV. Either one of those could be dumped a level to pick up a +4 to intimidate but I based this decision off of Tobril's build being 'enough' Intimidate for the type of stuff I'd want to do. I don't think this build has the HP's to intimi-tank Horoth and Epic DQ I don't want anything to do with. I really like getting in Exalted Smite III though especially if we whip out the khopeshes for a full-out dps option...that's a lot of extra spike damage there.

What I gave up from Tobril's (other than some flavor decisions - I like tortoise for this build/he likes monkey) was Bulwark IV. I just don't have the gear to have a viable high-level AC option and even if I did I think this build will do fine with its ridiculous healing most of the time just using DR to get by. Low to mid-levels though Bulwark might find its way into my enhancements as a meaningful AC makes leveling much easier. About the only spot that decision would affect other than enhancements in the build is the level 6 feat. I went for more intimidate from feats to ease the need for intimidate from enhancements which are very tight. If you went for a full ac option (Bulwark III or IV) then it would make a lot of sense to drop Skill Focus: Intimidate for Combat Expertise. This would take a +3 int tome in my build or else dropping starting str by a point to grab two more starting int. I prefer running power attack even when tanking and letting my extra hp's, healing amp, and dr take care of my health but that's simply a general matter of preference and available gear - both are valid options so it boils down to personal preference.

Speaking of that level 6 feat, I'll probably take the sentinel dragonmark there for quite awhile. -1 to intimidate or 1 extra AP spent to get a self-cast version of the shield of faith pot (which will get even better than the pot at level 9) makes a lot of sense to me. We'll be using a mithril breastplate/chain shirt until level 13 so we'll probably still have a viable AC. Also, we can use a nice heavy shield up to that point when we want maximum AC and a nice tower shield when we want to turtle up. That makes having max ac even easier if you're willing to dump the thf damage. Lastly, even if we don't take Combat Expertise we can still turtle up at low levels with Defensive Fighting. +2ac isn't much but it's free and works great when we're intimitanking.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Vengeful Tobril
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(15 Paladin \ 3 Monk \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 353
Spell Points: 204
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 18
Will: 13

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23 24
Dexterity 15 17 17
Constitution 14 16 16
Intelligence 10 12 12
Wisdom 10 12 12
Charisma 14 16 16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 6 11 11
Bluff 2 3 3
Concentration 4 23 23
Diplomacy 6 6 7
Disable Device 4 5 5
Haggle 2 3 3
Heal 0 1 1
Hide 2 3 3
Intimidate 6 26 29
Jump 7 15 15
Listen 0 1 1
Move Silently 2 3 3
Open Lock 6 7 7
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 0 1 1
Search 4 5 5
Spot 0 1 1
Swim 3 7 7
Tumble 6 7 7
Use Magic Device 6 26 26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
Spell (1): Lionheart
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Resistance
Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (1): Virtue


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Angelskin
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy


Level 11 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Harmonious Balance (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Inevitable Dominion (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Break Enchantment
Spell (4): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (4): Deathward
Spell (4): Holy Sword
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
Spell (4): Restoration
Spell (4): Stalwart Pact
Spell (4): Zeal


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion IV
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II

[Darkrok]

Here's a more defensive version of Tobril's build...in fact, it goes even more defensive than he did by dropping some more dps in Extra Smite III/Exalted Smite II/Divine Sacrifice II to max out the hp lines. It also makes up for taking CE and dropping Skill Focus: Intimidate by taking the full Intimidate line to get more intimidate than I had. Lastly, it raises my original build's wisdom by 2 giving it an extra point of AC from there.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Vengeful Tobril Defense
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(15 Paladin \ 3 Monk \ 2 Rogue)
Hit Points: 353
Spell Points: 228
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 20
Will: 16

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(34 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 14 21 22
Dexterity 15 17 17
Constitution 14 16 16
Intelligence 12 15 15
Wisdom 12 14 14
Charisma 14 16 16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 6 21 21
Bluff 2 3 3
Concentration 4 26 27
Diplomacy 2 3 3
Disable Device 5 6 6
Haggle 6 7 7
Heal 1 2 2
Hide 2 3 3
Intimidate 6 26 30
Jump 6 18 18
Listen 1 2 2
Move Silently 2 3 3
Open Lock 6 7 7
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 1 2 2
Search 5 6 6
Spot 1 2 2
Swim 2 6 6
Tumble 6 7 7
Use Magic Device 6 26 26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Lesser Restoration
Spell (1): Lionheart
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Resistance
Spell (1): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (1): Virtue


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Angelskin
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy


Level 11 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Deflect Arrows
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Harmonious Balance (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Inevitable Dominion (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind


Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse


Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Break Enchantment
Spell (4): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (4): Deathward
Spell (4): Holy Sword
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
Spell (4): Restoration
Spell (4): Stalwart Pact
Spell (4): Zeal


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead I
Enhancement: Paladin Hunter of the Dead II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion III
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion IV
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Intimidate IEnhancement: Paladin Intimidate IIEnhancement: Paladin Intimidate IIIEnhancement: Paladin Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Improved Turning II

[Darkrok]

Just to be clear I think the first build - the dps-focused one - that I posted would be better for most content. You could easily intimitank most stuff in the game just by leaning on the healing amp/dr/hp pool. The stuff where you couldn't do so would be stuff - like Horoth - we'll likely be dps'ing instead. That said, I think that second build gets the most defense out of this build we can comfortably get while still having at least some dps. While we could drop Toughness III & IV instead of the various Smite-based abilities (the AP works out the same) I think dropping 20hp's for a defensive-based build would be a mistake given what the current end-game looks like.

[Tobril]

Just to be clear I think the first build - the dps-focused one - that I posted would be better for most content. You could easily intimitank most stuff in the game just by leaning on the healing amp/dr/hp pool. The stuff where you couldn't do so would be stuff - like Horoth - we'll likely be dps'ing instead. That said, I think that second build gets the most defense out of this build we can comfortably get while still having at least some dps. While we could drop Toughness III & IV instead of the various Smite-based abilities (the AP works out the same) I think dropping 20hp's for a defensive-based build would be a mistake given what the current end-game looks like.

If you manage to tank horoth with your version let me know, as I am still trying to figure out how to make that happen with mine.

I think it's possible, but would be pretty hectic.

[Darkrok]

If you manage to tank horoth with your version let me know, as I am still trying to figure out how to make that happen with mine.

I think it's possible, but would be pretty hectic.

I was in the group with you last night for ToD (Tajawuka's one of my toons). You should have tanked Horoth (not that the tank we had wasn't just fine...I just would have liked to see it). It would take an active healer using a variety of heals (since they'd have some on cooldown) but I think you'd be pretty easy to heal on that. I like to alternate between capstone, heal, and heal scrolls on my favored soul and with the healing I get out of the capstone and scroll I think I could keep you topped off w/o using sp's. Only time I'd need to pop a heal on you would be if the scroll and the capstone were on CD. I wouldn't be letting you drop low enough that the capstone or scroll wouldn't be a full heal. Hopefully you cap and try it out before I TR my FvS to this build as I'd love to get a crack at healing you on Horoth. :)

[Hrum]

These phoenix type builds look very interesting to me. I have a capped bard and cleric and am looking into a DPS type character come U7. I dont really want to make a half-orc barb like everyone else will; but my question is, just how good is the DPS on these type builds? Primarily the most offensive one?

I think being a semi-intimitank is great. I remember grouping with a phoenix build character on my cleric and thought it was great because my healing aura provided enough healing to make all the damage he took meaningless!

Basically, will these builds warrant a DPS spot in groups or are they relegated to a tanking/low DPS role?

[Tobril]

These phoenix type builds look very interesting to me. I have a capped bard and cleric and am looking into a DPS type character come U7. I dont really want to make a half-orc barb like everyone else will; but my question is, just how good is the DPS on these type builds? Primarily the most offensive one?

I think being a semi-intimitank is great. I remember grouping with a phoenix build character on my cleric and thought it was great because my healing aura provided enough healing to make all the damage he took meaningless!

Basically, will these builds warrant a DPS spot in groups or are they relegated to a tanking/low DPS role?

DPS in longsword mode is pretty weak.

You can, however, use a standard khopesh setup against bosses that can't be effected by fists of light and still do pretty decent. Even with the -4 non-proficiency of certain versions of the build you should still hit harry/horoth/sulu just fine with raid/ship buffs.

[Tobril]

I was in the group with you last night for ToD (Tajawuka's one of my toons). You should have tanked Horoth (not that the tank we had wasn't just fine...I just would have liked to see it). It would take an active healer using a variety of heals (since they'd have some on cooldown) but I think you'd be pretty easy to heal on that. I like to alternate between capstone, heal, and heal scrolls on my favored soul and with the healing I get out of the capstone and scroll I think I could keep you topped off w/o using sp's. Only time I'd need to pop a heal on you would be if the scroll and the capstone were on CD. I wouldn't be letting you drop low enough that the capstone or scroll wouldn't be a full heal. Hopefully you cap and try it out before I TR my FvS to this build as I'd love to get a crack at healing you on Horoth. :)

I think I've figured out a way to do horoth via a combination of special purpose hate and no-fail intim gear. (thank you coin lords)

I'll try putting the stuff together and then see if anyone is crazy enough to let me try. :p

[Darkrok]

I think I've figured out a way to do horoth via a combination of special purpose hate and no-fail intim gear. (thank you coin lords)

I'll try putting the stuff together and then see if anyone is crazy enough to let me try. :p

I've healed no-amp barbarians sitting in the low-600's in health while fully raged. I'd have to heal you even more proactively than the barbs but at least my capstone and heal scrolls would always top you off.

[Valindria]

These phoenix type builds look very interesting to me. I have a capped bard and cleric and am looking into a DPS type character come U7. I dont really want to make a half-orc barb like everyone else will; but my question is, just how good is the DPS on these type builds? Primarily the most offensive one?

I think being a semi-intimitank is great. I remember grouping with a phoenix build character on my cleric and thought it was great because my healing aura provided enough healing to make all the damage he took meaningless!

Basically, will these builds warrant a DPS spot in groups or are they relegated to a tanking/low DPS role?

You'll notice the dps is bad. At least in my build (valtieri in sig) from levels ~13-17 it was rough at times. Gear and getting more paladin levels, zeal, DM III, exalted smite III, and gear has really helped out. The other thing I do is spam ki strikes like there is no tomorrow. DS, Smite, Void Strike, Earth, Lightning. It can be small amounts but every little bit helps.

These builds are a lot better for solo situations. Healing amp is wasted in areas where clerics do mass cures/heals anyway. The dps is not as good as a lot of DPS builds. It's a trade off for sure. I love my paladin but I know his dps is bad. The trade off is I can fully heal myself from a crit healing ki.

After u7 eventually my plan is to TR him into 15/3/2 paladin/monk/fighter. With intim as a class skill it will give a little more versatility.

[Dombre]

Are these builds still any good are there newer ones out? I am looking into go in a similar build thought plan here. Just wondering if these are still useable now or if they are out dated and there are better versions out there?

[Darkrok]

Are these builds still any good are there newer ones out? I am looking into go in a similar build thought plan here. Just wondering if these are still useable now or if they are out dated and there are better versions out there?

These builds are still good. They do what they do. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread they're much better for solo/short-man situations than in raids/epics. They're nearly unkillable - unfortunately they have trouble dps-ing their way out of a paper bag. They have to-hit issues. They have low damage issues. I've had fun with it (level 18 so far on a 15/3/2 build) but I'll be TR'ing eventually to a more dps-oriented build given the current state of the game. Being able to solo in Amrath on the strength of your healing amp alone is a cool trick and all but for me it doesn't make up for the fact that you can't kill anything. :P

Now I haven't gotten to play with the khopeshes as Tobril suggested earlier - I've been holding off on the khopesh/picks until level 19 when I can just summon some to play with. That might change things a bit but if I'm not happy with the dps at that point I'll take that wonderful past life-paladin and move on.

[Dombre]

Thank you Dark for your build. I know it wont be the best at end game but I am looking for a build for me and my girlfriend to run together and not really need much if anyone else. I am adjusting the build a little for more easy of use and dou for the two of us. Thank you again for the information and have a great day!

[Darkrok]

Thank you Dark for your build. I know it wont be the best at end game but I am looking for a build for me and my girlfriend to run together and not really need much if anyone else. I am adjusting the build a little for more easy of use and dou for the two of us. Thank you again for the information and have a great day!

No problem! It really shines in that type of situation. Also, it's very tight on enhancements and feats both which lends itself to variation...I know that Tobril's build wasn't nearly the same as mine (I'm actually playing Tobril's as I wanted a bit more dps than this one has) but any 12+ paladin, 3+ monk will fit the bill.

[EllisDee37]

How well does this build hold up since the expansion?

[slimkj]

I haven't got one. I have something similar, with fewer monk levels. My guess would be; this build is holding up better than my build due to the 7Mnk part. My 15/4/1 (currently at L15) just doesn't have the DPS output to take down self healing bosses on elite, sadly. I've parked him for now either waiting on Enh pass or to pike a cap off a guildie on a high DPS toon before TRing to Druid.

These guys are just about as survivable as they were before, but they struggle a little in the DPS department at mid-levels, I find. Once you get to EDs there's such a power jump no doubt their DPS improves radically.